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View Full Version : Half-Dragon Lycanthropes?? (( Long Post ))



Jysafayra
2010-03-11, 11:30 PM
I was sitting in my room and pondering my normal - if random - thoughts about how to torment my players, when it occured to me. It's impossible for a half-dragon to be inflicted with lycanthropy as the rules clearly state it effects only humanoids and giants, and a half-dragon's type is changed to dragon upon creation.

However!! It states under half-dragons, any creature can become a half-dragon so long as it's pretty much not undead or construct (And even then, I've seen alot of draconic constructs and undead dragons). So, according to these rules, wouldn't it be possible for a dragon and lycanthrope to successfully create a half-dragon/lycanthrope offspring?

My view on it is that it's in fact very possible. Since dragons are creatures of magic and can pretty much mate with anything successfully (especially silver, bronze and gold dragons, as well as Song dragon as naturally gifted shapeshifters).

My friends, however, wanted to argue it otherwise with this fact - if Lycanthropy is an infection, even a gentic one, would becoming a half-dragon and having the dragon type make one immune to the curse of lycanthropy and thus be born just a half dragon of the lycanthrope's humanoid/giant race? In that respect, it would seem that they could successfully breed, but the child would be removed of it's curse. :smallfrown:

Lycanthropy as a curse seems magical, though, and a half-dragon unicorn retrains it's natural magics for healing, and a half-dragon drow would still gain their spell-like abilities. If that's the case, wouldn't it be possible for a lycanthrope/half-dragon be allowed to retain it's shapeshifting abilities? That's assuming they're considered magical (Though, even if they were supernatural abilities, they would retain that as well, as other half-dragons do.)

:smallconfused: On a similar note, what of half-dragon/changelings? While definately possible, how far would their shapeshifting go as to hide their obviously draconic heritage? According to the Eberron campaign settings, dragons are scarce, so it wouldn't happen often if ever, but such a creature would have trouble, I think. Looking at the rules, their shapeshifting grants them a natural bonus to disguise checks - but they'd be considered dragons. In order to make themselves look human, one would have to look at the disguise skill and see how big of a modifier that would be to alter themselves to look like a completely different type of creature (dragon to humanoid). However, they could (for all the good it would do, as they'd still be rather obvious) change into another half-dragon/humanoid. They'd retain draconic features, but they'd also be able to look like a different humanoid. I believe that could be done with ease.

Anyway, food for thought - I'd like people's opnions on these two cases - Possible, plausable, impossible. Thank you for taking the time to read my huge post. I would very much like to torment my players with this. :smallbiggrin:

Mongoose87
2010-03-11, 11:38 PM
You're the DM?

Then it is possible.

Stubbed Tongue
2010-03-11, 11:48 PM
You're the DM?

Then it is possible.

Agreed.......

Kelb_Panthera
2010-03-12, 12:11 AM
+1 to the sentiment that "it's your world do what you want." That said, as long as you're talking inherited templates you're golden. Raw says that you put the templates on in the order you choose, so as long as you do a lycanthropic half-dragon and not a half-draconic lycanthrope you're good. (or was it the other way around.....)

Nate the Snake
2010-03-12, 12:24 AM
So, according to these rules, wouldn't it be possible for a dragon and lycanthrope to successfully create a half-dragon/lycanthrope offspring?

Yes, it is possible to have a half-dragon lycanthrope. Natural lycanthropy obviously works better when justifying it, but you could also have an afflicted lycanthrope Dragon Disciple.


My friends, however, wanted to argue it otherwise with this fact - if Lycanthropy is an infection, even a gentic one, would becoming a half-dragon and having the dragon type make one immune to the curse of lycanthropy and thus be born just a half dragon of the lycanthrope's humanoid/giant race? In that respect, it would seem that they could successfully breed, but the child would be removed of it's curse. :smallfrown:

Templates only check legality of application when they're applied, so a lycanthrope who gains the half-dragon template doesn't lose the lycanthrope template.


Lycanthropy as a curse seems magical, though, and a half-dragon unicorn retrains it's natural magics for healing, and a half-dragon drow would still gain their spell-like abilities. If that's the case, wouldn't it be possible for a lycanthrope/half-dragon be allowed to retain it's shapeshifting abilities? That's assuming they're considered magical (Though, even if they were supernatural abilities, they would retain that as well, as other half-dragons do.)

Half-dragons retain all abilities of the base creature (because the template doesn't specifically remove anything). Therefore, lycanthropes keep their alternate forms.


On a similar note, what of half-dragon/changelings? While definately possible, how far would their shapeshifting go as to hide their obviously draconic heritage?

A changeling's Minor Change Shape ability functions as disguise self:

You make yourself—including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment—look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your body type. Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person.
It only changes appearance, so it can be used to conceal half-dragon-ness.


According to the Eberron campaign settings, dragons are scarce, so it wouldn't happen often if ever, but such a creature would have trouble, I think. Looking at the rules, their shapeshifting grants them a natural bonus to disguise checks - but they'd be considered dragons.

Half-dragons do exist in Eberron, just not to the (ridiculous) extent of standard D&D. Changelings actually have it better than most base races, since they can look human while retaining their draconic abilities and dragon type.


In order to make themselves look human, one would have to look at the disguise skill and see how big of a modifier that would be to alter themselves to look like a completely different type of creature (dragon to humanoid).

At worst, it's a -2 for "different race," and you could probably justify the +5 for "minor details only" anyway, on top of the +10 for shapechanging.


However, they could (for all the good it would do, as they'd still be rather obvious) change into another half-dragon/humanoid. They'd retain draconic features, but they'd also be able to look like a different humanoid. I believe that could be done with ease.

For that matter, a normal changeling could mimic a half-dragon. Disguise self can do pretty much anything short of adding limbs.


Anyway, food for thought - I'd like people's opnions on these two cases - Possible, plausable, impossible. Thank you for taking the time to read my huge post. I would very much like to torment my players with this. :smallbiggrin:

Again, it's quite possible. Have fun tormenting your players with wolves (or whatever) that breathe fire (or whatever). :smallwink:

Jysafayra
2010-03-12, 09:26 PM
Thank you all for your help so far - but a new question has arisen. Size modifiers! Let's say the lycanthrope was a bear - according to the rules, their half-bear form and bear form are large size. The half-dragon template states half-dragons of large and larger size have wings in a fly speed. Would that mean when he shapeshifts, he sprouts wings?

Kelb_Panthera
2010-03-12, 09:55 PM
I can't think of any reason that that wouldn't be the case, but I'm not 100% certain.

AbyssKnight
2010-03-12, 11:25 PM
I would be fine with him sprouting wings when shifting form. I mean, you already go through a pretty radical change in shape, size, and form (not to mention violating certain laws of physics).

Just think of it as a half-dragon human changing into a half-dragon bear. In human form, you are all scaly and such. In bear form, you are all scaly and such plus wings!

Fishy
2010-03-12, 11:54 PM
Half dragons are *possible* in Eberron, but the last time one popped up, the Epic Dragons with Epic Magic declared her an abomination, annihilated her entire family, and removed the incident from history.

So, it's not a good idea to pretend to be one.

AbyssKnight
2010-03-13, 12:40 AM
That wasn't because Vol was half-dragon. It was because she was an elf half-dragon. Elves and Dragons are engaged in a centuries long, on and off, war.

And there are other, and more recent, half-dragons in Eberron.