PDA

View Full Version : Will this work ? (3.5 Wish)



Grifthin
2010-03-12, 05:40 AM
Could you take a piece of paper, write out a list of AWESOME stuff (like killing all the gods, making yourself a god after they are gone, giving yourself bacon and 275849837593 XP.

Then casting wish, and making a wish that "Everything written on this piece of paper comes true"

I mean just wishing for whats written on paper isn't that powerful right ?

Haven
2010-03-12, 05:42 AM
The writing comes to life and attacks you.

Also, you're on fire.

Yora
2010-03-12, 05:47 AM
Only that the wish spell can't really grant wishes. It's very limited what it can do. It's a very powerful spell, but it can't do everything.

taltamir
2010-03-12, 05:52 AM
Most DMs will kill your character for doing that, because the DMG tells them to.
Nice DMs will opt for the partial fulfilment clause, wherein the wish performs as much of what you wished for as it gain, then runs out of energy.

For example, if the first line on the paper you wrote was:
"I wish for +100000 to int, wis, cha, dex, con, and str"

partial fulfilment would be a +1 to int (first on the list).

If the first line was:
"I wish I was an ancient dragon"
then partial fulfillment would either to polymorph any object you into an ancient dragon (12 hour duration), or PaO you into a much younger dragon where your duration is permanent.
etc etc

Devils_Advocate
2010-03-13, 02:38 AM
You could make that wish, but making it wouldn't cause it to come true.

A casting of the wish spell can only do so much. It just does the best it can to fulfill your request. If you wish to be able to cast a million spells per day, then it teleports you to a planet that only rotates once every billion hours, not because it gets angry at you for asking for too much or something, because that's the best it can do. One upshot of this is that a wish won't screw you over with a more powerful effect than what you intended, since if just giving you what you intended would have been easier, it would have just done that. Another upshot is that if you asked for more than one wish can do, it will give you as close as it can to what you asked for. But not what you asked for, since it can't do that.

The basic assumption in AD&D seems to have been that wishes were Lawful Evil and omnipotent, which was nuts. In 3.5, they're Lawful Neutral and just fantastically powerful. A wish can't even just duplicate another 9th-level spell. That's a perfectly straightforward thing to request, but that's totally not the issue.


I mean just wishing for whats written on paper isn't that powerful right ?
Wrong. You, um, just clearly demonstrated that that's wrong. Tsk, this probably wasn't even a serious question, was it? I feel silly now.

Edit: Actually, maybe the wish would search the infinite multiverse for a language in which what you have written coincidentally means something that it can do, and then do that. Or just do that with the phrase "I wish that everything on this page was true". That would still technically be a literal fulfillment, no?

Amiel
2010-03-13, 02:58 AM
[...]Also, you're on fire.
The paper is also on fire.

Additionally, the fire is on fire.



Remember that wish has the following clause; "the wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment"

Wording it in a highly non-specific manner could cause your wish to backfire upon you.
Also, you must pay the XP costs.

The Glyphstone
2010-03-13, 03:11 AM
The solution here is to cast Erase on the page. It's well within the power of Wish, and it's a literal fulfillment of the Wish as well.

Fishy
2010-03-13, 03:14 AM
The solution here is to cast Erase on the page. It's well within the power of Wish, and it's a literal fulfillment of the Wish as well.

This wins everything forever.

Malificus
2010-03-13, 03:19 AM
The real solution is to rewrite everything on the page so that they're true.

If the page says "I have 1,000,000 platinum" but the person only has 50 gold, the page now says "I have 50 gold".

krossbow
2010-03-13, 03:23 AM
A sadistic DM would turn you into a god then immediately cause you to implode and die in a black hole from the experience cost of the wish being so vast that it formed a quantum singularity out of you.





As a rule of thumb, think of the wish spell like a deathnote.


If possible, what you write down will come true; however, the power of the object is finite, and it cannot do impossible actions. As such, if you give it a wish it cannot perform, it will instead default to the lowest common denominator of fulfilling that wish, even if that's far, far below what you want.

taltamir
2010-03-13, 03:24 AM
The real solution is to rewrite everything on the page so that they're true.

If the page says "I have 1,000,000 platinum" but the person only has 50 gold, the page now says "I have 50 gold".

even nicer then erase. I would have made the paper a magic item that is a truth detector. If you write someone on it that is true, it remains, if you write something false, it gets erased. :P

Malificus
2010-03-13, 03:30 AM
even nicer then erase. I would have made the paper a magic item that is a truth detector. If you write someone on it that is true, it remains, if you write something false, it gets erased. :P

The person just used a Wish spell. I'm not giving them everything, but I'm not trying to screw them over.

Actually,my version could also be used for finding information (assuming the writer has an idea of what he's looking for, and is lucky)

Example; Writing "The magical macguffin is in this house" could go two ways at least.

It'll either tell you what's in this house, or where the magical macguffin is, assuming that neither is protected against scrying.

taltamir
2010-03-13, 03:41 AM
I thought you meant change it ONCE to say the truth at the casting of the spell. not always show the truth... if it always showing the truth its powerful divination. My suggestion was to make it a crippled version of what you said.

also, its not really "giving" them because using wish to craft items costs EXTRA XP to create :P

2xMachina
2010-03-13, 03:45 AM
Not enough power.

Partial fulfillment. You get the bacon. Lots of it, through replicated Create Food.

magic9mushroom
2010-03-13, 04:34 AM
Could you take a piece of paper, write out a list of AWESOME stuff (like killing all the gods, making yourself a god after they are gone, giving yourself bacon and 275849837593 XP.

Then casting wish, and making a wish that "Everything written on this piece of paper comes true"

I mean just wishing for whats written on paper isn't that powerful right ?

Wish fails. Alternatively, Wish gives you a nudge down the right road to obtaining all of that some very long time in the future.

herbe
2010-03-13, 05:59 AM
I wish i had 1.000.000 platinum. Platinum teleported from a dragon lair or a country like Thay. Both of them could be very interesting...

Foryn Gilnith
2010-03-13, 09:07 AM
You lose 5000 XP.

I'm not much of a fan of Wish.

Riffington
2010-03-13, 09:13 AM
The important question is where the Wish came from.
If *you* are the source of the Wish (you cast a spell and pay XP), partial fulfillment is the answer. As Taltamir says, +1 Int, succeeds, runs out of energy. Had you started with "Kill all the deities, set me up after they're gone, etc" it'd give one deity a tummyache and run out of energy.
If a cruel or mischievous creature (such as an Efreet) is the source of the Wish, perversion is the answer, because such creatures are perverse.
If you somehow get an angel granting you wishes, she'll be nice enough to correct your wording to what you should have wished for.

taltamir
2010-03-13, 09:57 AM
I wish i had 1.000.000 platinum. Platinum teleported from a dragon lair or a country like Thay. Both of them could be very interesting...

partial fulfilment, you get 1 million tiny pieces of platinum worth 25000gp (max gold value of precious metals wish can provide).


Had you started with "Kill all the deities, set me up after they're gone, etc" it'd give one deity a tummyache and run out of energy.

that is awesome and hilarious!

Nidogg
2010-03-13, 10:36 AM
You get all you gold, but it is suddenly worthless and you have plunged your country into recession. Your a god, but of your own worst fears. all gods die, so your situation cannot be rectified and your exp is worthless scince you are now a god of your own worst fears which cannot use such piffling mortal trifles such as exp.

All that and you lose 5,000 exp for it.

Kylarra
2010-03-13, 10:38 AM
If you somehow get an angel granting you wishes, she'll be nice enough to correct your wording to what you should have wished for.Well, depending on your wish anyway. If you're wishing something clearly evil, then she'll probably "pervert" your intentions to goodness.

Grollub
2010-03-13, 11:20 AM
Could you take a piece of paper, write out a list of AWESOME stuff (like killing all the gods, making yourself a god after they are gone, giving yourself bacon and 275849837593 XP.

Then casting wish, and making a wish that "Everything written on this piece of paper comes true"

I mean just wishing for whats written on paper isn't that powerful right ?

I would either do a Partial fulfillment of something on the list.. or...

If im feeling especially evil :smallfurious: I would go for a literal translation of the wish. "Everything written"... all the stuff on the piece of paper currently i would ignore and tell the group "nothing visibly happens". Make the paper like a monkey's paw. Anything that is written on the paper AFTER the wish, you can fulfill into a twisted cursed nasty wish. :smalleek:

Maybe after they see nothing happens initially, they chuck the paper. And so begins the adventure, wherein someone finds it and writes something on it.....

Nero24200
2010-03-13, 11:35 AM
I prefer (and encourage) the Lawful Evil approach to wish spells that I consider unreasonable. A boost to strength? Fair enough, the rules cover that, so you gain a +1 bonus. But killing the gods?

I would respond to that by teleporting an angry (and armed) god in front of the PC and saying "There he is, go ahead". The second part of the wish states "after they're dead", so I wouldn't need to worry about the second part. They can have bacon all they want, but if they want the vast amounts of XP they'll get the chance....because I'll place creatures 20 CR above them (or higher, considering how high the amount of XP they want).

Lysander
2010-03-13, 03:46 PM
I'd have the Wish try to kill one random god by plane shifting them somewhere nasty (who would receive a will save and almost certainly pass it), and unless the god dies (which they wouldn't) then the player would have an extremely angry god come to get them.

Depending on the random deity in question they would either be killed or punished in some intricate way.

Jack_Simth
2010-03-13, 04:09 PM
Could you take a piece of paper, write out a list of AWESOME stuff (like killing all the gods, making yourself a god after they are gone, giving yourself bacon and 275849837593 XP.

Then casting wish, and making a wish that "Everything written on this piece of paper comes true"

I mean just wishing for whats written on paper isn't that powerful right ?
Re-read Wish. That is an open invitation for your DM to smite you.

AmberVael
2010-03-13, 04:13 PM
The writing comes to life and attacks you.

Also, you're on fire.

Heehee. "And everything's on fire!" (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040917) Possibly one of my favorite phrases of all time.


But yeah, even wish has its limitations. Wouldn't work in any sane game, I imagine.

DementedFellow
2010-03-13, 04:21 PM
Could you take a piece of paper, write out a list of AWESOME stuff (like killing all the gods, making yourself a god after they are gone, giving yourself bacon and 275849837593 XP.

Then casting wish, and making a wish that "Everything written on this piece of paper comes true"



Every word will become "true" over and over.

MOLOKH
2010-03-13, 04:30 PM
I'm interested in the way the "giving yourself 275849837593 XP" part would actually be worded on that piece of paper. Is that how one has to write it? "I want 10000000000XP"? In what kind of world would the Wish understand it? In the OotS universe?

Itous
2010-03-13, 04:44 PM
personally i would grant your wish but it would take a very long time.

lets start at top "Killing All Deities" i would hand you a fabricated copy of a book in an ancient and long forgotten language with almost no record of it to have translated if you got it translated you would uncover a myth of a mystial god killing weapon.

this would then link to the second one, you could become a god after they all die, how ever it would be you who have to kill them.

you would recive 1 slice of bacon (as it had no specification to how much you wanted)

275849837593 XP you would recive for killing the gods and everyone who worships a god because the only way to kill a god is to remove its power essentially you would have to kill 98% of the worlds population. this then means you were a very weak god

how ever this could take you almost the rest of existance as if the person who would translate your book died soon after you would have to learn this language yourself taking years. essentially you mind will be "hasted" but your body "slowed" this way you can learn at an incredible rate but then restain your own movement and other things


i notice some others posted up some stuff like a +100000 to everything.

i personally would give you +1 for the next 100000 days essentially giving you +100000 as you did not specify it was all at once and as a result the wish spell has the power to make things last almost indefantly

the peice of paper with the wish that changes the text is a smart idea, i do like how that one worked out.

so when you say "everything on this paper is true" instead of it saying "i have 1,000,000 platinum" it would change to how much you currently had on you.

how ever there are ways to word the spell around that. for example instead of wishing for 1,000,000 platinum right off the bat you could do something similar.

wish can only grant you a total value of 25,000GP how ever you could use that to your advantage by wishing for something which you could then possibly turn into 1,000,000 platinum for example a rare form of previously undiscovered mythril.

because it is so rare and valueble the price for it would be at its highest in which you would have to calculate the weight to coinage to get your target coinage, but your target coinage would be all it is worth and thus wouldn't make a profit over that.

or perhaps you could wish for as much platnium as it could give you (1lb of platinum = 500 gold so 25,000 / 500 = 50lb's of platinum).

now i don't know how big 50lb's of platinum would be but if it was large enough you could fabricate it with a craft "tinker" check (tinker is in the phb and they are the people who make coins) you could then give the coins to a nation as an investment or buy a large area of land and sell it off for reasonable prices.

so it would probably give you as much as it could right off the bat such as 2500PP (25,000 gold, if i'm wrong on that conversion i appologies) and leave the rest to you, how ever by the rules of the wish spell your next investment should in theory then give you a return of what you asked for giving you a total of 1,000,000 PP.

how ever the only other thing you could do is wish for 25,000GP's worth of tobaccoo (5 sp per pound) 25,000 / 0.5 = 50,000lb's

you could then use some basic spells or alchemy to enhance this tobaccoo and sell it off for 10gp per pound 10 x 50,000 = 500000 GP exchange that into platinum and you have... 500,000 / 10 = 50,000PP you have essentially earned your wieght in platinum.

But that is an example of how the spell would be used to provide you with the basic materials you need to achive such a goal. investments are a powerful thing, the wish spell doesn't have to grant you the power to invest that is already there, it just depends on the player, if the player askes the wish to make it appear infront of them (which is rarely the case) the wish spell will give them the oppertunity to create the money from thier own hard work.

there are thousands of other little loop holes for the DM to explore other then just throwing it back in the players face, although at that level the player should of had the money to invest in such a transaction anyway and as a result waste time on meaningless transactions and wasting a spell, but that in itself is a leason well learned.

i guess its always going to be a case becareful what you wish for.

Lamech
2010-03-13, 05:26 PM
"Killing all dieties", sure why not. How long do you think it will take for ressurection to happen? There gods, their servents are solars, they can wish the god back.

"Making you a god" enjoy your divine rank 0.

"bacon" you have some bacon.

"XP" congrats you now get to level. Once. And your one point short of the next level.

So, your wish is granted with out any perversion what so ever. And you die, as soon as the gods get back. Also note its not too hard to see into the future and stop you ahead of time, so you may not even get your wish off.

If I was a nice DM, I would erase the paper.

P.S. Transport travellers can send CL gods some place nasty, and if the save is buffed high enough I'm sure you can get them to fail on a not natural twenty.

Curmudgeon
2010-03-13, 06:23 PM
I'd go with Erase, and then magic writing that said:


Your Wish cannot be completed as dialed. Please deposit 999,275,849,837,594 XP to continue this Wish...

Zexion
2010-03-13, 06:47 PM
That would be hilarious.

Haven
2010-03-14, 07:03 PM
The paper is also on fire.

Additionally, the fire is on fire.


Yet another opportunity to post this? (http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/haven_bucket/flaming_fire.png?t=1268612176) :3

OracleofWuffing
2010-03-14, 07:14 PM
Everything on the paper becomes true. Everything not on the paper becomes false. So, be sure to write "And I will never be set on fire," or something of the sort on there.

Disclaimer, I'm not liable for anything involving the fabric of reality that happens or does not happen as a result of listening to my advice.

ka_bna
2010-03-15, 03:41 AM
The writing on the paper is true. Whatever the writing means, is not true, for it is but an description. (Similar to a picture of a pipe, it is not a pipe! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treachery_of_Images))

Result in the end? The ink is true.

As for "Everything written on this piece of paper comes true": the existing non-existing ink on the paper will become existing existing ink. Which means that everything that has been written on that piece of paper, in the future and in the past, will come in existance and be readable right now. Which may or may not be "I prepared explosive runes today"...

Lord Vukodlak
2010-03-15, 03:51 AM
The real solution is to rewrite everything on the page so that they're true.

If the page says "I have 1,000,000 platinum" but the person only has 50 gold, the page now says "I have 50 gold".

:smallbiggrin: That my friend is wonderful two thumbs up!

magic9mushroom
2010-03-15, 04:30 AM
I still say the best option is that the Wish points you in the right direction to accomplishing all of that. Not "you get the knowledge of how to do it", more like "the next time you get to make a choice that affects whether you get all that stuff, you get a hunch to choose the right way".

Of course, the way to do it probably involves a pile of Evilness, so a Good PC probably won't get much benefit.

taltamir
2010-03-15, 04:39 AM
my favorite is "nothing happens"...

that is... the paper says "I wish I was a god". the spell you cast is "i wish everything on the paper is true"... nothing need to happen because what is written on the paper is true, you really DO wish you were a god.

of course, that can be circumvented by writing "I am a god" instead of "i wish I was a god"

Killer Angel
2010-03-15, 05:24 AM
Could you take a piece of paper, write out a list of AWESOME stuff (like killing all the gods, making yourself a god after they are gone, giving yourself bacon and 275849837593 XP.

Then casting wish, and making a wish that "Everything written on this piece of paper comes true"


Too much easy to screw you, so here's a nicest version.

DM, passing his copy of DMG to the player: "Congratulations! You've beaten me and now you're the only God of this universe, keeper of the Ultimate Power. I hope you have an adventure ready for us players... I've here the sheet of my old barbarian pc".