help me disturb my class

[Froogleyboy]

Well, I've gone and made my teacher mad bye calling myself a "writer". She disagreed and told me that I have to write a novel by the end of the school year on a pass/fail bases. She told me to write about anything, and she is going to read it aloud to the class, so I'm gonna play with her head. I want to write a horror novel, but not the traditional kind. I want to write something that disturbs the reader. Not like a gore filled slash-fest, but a psychological horror (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_horror). any ideas?

[icastflare!]

two words. Lovecraftian horror.

[Froogleyboy]

two words. Lovecraftian horror.

I'm in the process of reading all of his work;)

[deuxhero]

Gorn prehaps?

[RandomNPC]

Read a bunch of HP Lovecraft and try to top "Rats in the walls" it's perfect.

Origonally I was going to tell you in a not nice manner about the post on "Help me troll" that got locked because OotS doesn't promote trolling, but it sounds like your teacher asked for it on this one. On a technicality I've written at least a dozen sentances on one made up story, and that makes me a writer. I may not be a successfull and famous writer, but I'm still a writer. So Fie on the teacher. (I can say fie right?)

Edit: Super ninjaed. like, awesometastic sneaky ninjas.

[Mercenary Pen]

two words. Lovecraftian horror.

Agreed, Lovecraftian horror- but try and latch onto something they know, possibly a local landmark and use that as a focal point for weirding them out and terrifying them. Hopefully, if you pull it off right, it'll help you hit home that little bit harder (I'd avoid using people they know if you can help it- can lead to all sorts of complications).

[Amiel]

Write, what is that?

Get them to watch The Slender Man; all of it, in full.

[Maximum Zersk]

I also say Lovecraftian. Make it as eerie as possible.

[Froogleyboy]

I was thinking, maybe something about insane asylums

[icastflare!]

any hospitals in the nearby area?

[Maximum Zersk]

I have to warn you, though. Modern people are generally more desensitized then people from the 1920s. It may take a lot of work to make a Lovecraftian story scary.

Of course, I've only read one of his stories. :smalltongue:

[Froogleyboy]

any hospitals in the nearby area?

There's the Bryce Hospital for the Insane, but it's not that special

[Gaelbert]

There's the Bryce Hospital for the Insane, but it's not that special

That's what they want you to think.

[Maximum Zersk]

Then make it special. :smalltongue:

Secet passageways, cults, something!

[icastflare!]

There's the Bryce Hospital for the Insane, but it's not that special

any insane hospitable can be special. Use a well known name that is local not celebrity big like. " Johnny derp a derp worked as an intern until he listened to the prisoners to much. one shared a deep dark secret that changed his view on who was really the helpless insane one. then the guy took advantage of him and killed him" easy as that

[Arti3]

Write a fanfic where you take the place of Bella.
Yes that Bella.

[Elfin]

I have no idea what on Earth this teacher is trying to do. She should be trying to nurture creativity and encourage students to be writers...but instead, she's sending the message that trying to write or be creative will be punished.

If there's anyone who needs to prove that they know what they're doing, it's your teacher. Frankly, I'm not sure she's up to the task.

[golentan]

May I recommend employing a writing technique whereby you hint at what's causing the terrible, terrible events of the story but you never actually see it? Maybe even have one character discover where it is, open the door and switch to a different point of view discovering the grisly corpse before a description appears.

Ooh, you could do it journal style.

Edit: Oh, even better idea. No death, but hideous, permanent mental damage that leaves the victim incapable of anything resembling communication with others and clear, disturbing symptoms.

[Amiel]

Write a story with killer penguins (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144867) in it?

[Winter_Wolf]

Well, I've gone and made my teacher mad bye calling myself a "writer". She disagreed and told me that I have to write a novel by the end of the school year on a pass/fail bases.
*snip*

You could write about the teacher who singles out a student for what is essentially punishment that is completely unwarranted and grounds for discipline of said teacher. Seriously, that teacher is crusin' for disciplinary action if not dismissal. "I disagree with your self assessment that you are a 'writer', so therefore if you (and you alone, apparently) can't write a novel by the end of the school year, you fail" is NOT a valid defense if she gets brought before a school board.

More power to you for taking her up on the challenge, but personally I have a principle regarding abuse from teachers (or anyone, really): don't put up with that crap. I don't really have anything to add on venues for psychological horror, but as an instructor I find the teacher's behavior reprehensible and deeply offensive to others in the profession.

[Maximum Zersk]

How about, if you choose a journal-style, make it that the writer/protagonist is clearly going insane as the story goes on. Add some creepy runes and drawings into the story as well.

Just curious, your teacher doesn't know aboot GitP right?

[Froogleyboy]

Hmm, I like the idea of him going insane, but I don't know how to portray it. And, no, she dosen't know about Gitp. She thinks roleplaying is "Pure satanry" (as she calls it)

[Elfin]

You could write about the teacher who singles out a student for what is essentially punishment that is completely unwarranted and grounds for discipline of said teacher. Seriously, that teacher is crusin' for disciplinary action if not dismissal. "I disagree with your self assessment that you are a 'writer', so therefore if you (and you alone, apparently) can't write a novel by the end of the school year, you fail" is NOT a valid defense if she gets brought before a school board.

More power to you for taking her up on the challenge, but personally I have a principle regarding abuse from teachers (or anyone, really): don't put up with that crap. I don't really have anything to add on venues for psychological horror, but as an instructor I find the teacher's behavior reprehensible and deeply offensive to others in the profession.

Well said. Froogleyboy, I'd strongly recommend that you talk to your teacher about her inappropriate actions - and if she won't listen, take it up with the principal or your parent/guardian.

^Edit: That's inexcusable as well; she can have whatever opinion she wants, but she has no business bringing her religious views into the classroom or, even more importantly, telling one of her students that their hobby is evil. Once again, I very much advise that you talk to one of her superiors. You don't have to take her abuse.

Double edit: I'm sorry if I sound overly aggressive - I normally am not - but education is a subject close to me, and I can't believe that there's a teacher doing this.

[Maximum Zersk]

To make him looks like he's going insane make his writing seem more quicker, and broken, maybe. Make him talk of seeing things.

Well, that's good. If she knew about this website, all this'll go to waste. And at least she didn't call it pure santary. :smalltongue:

[thubby]

i would write at length how you feel what the teacher is doing is an abuse of her authority, and hand it in, to the principle. :smalltongue:

[PersonMan]

i would write at length how you feel what the teacher is doing is an abuse of her authority, and hand it in, to the principle. :smalltongue:

Prepare a documentary on what happens when a teacher does things like this. Use real examples and eyewitness reporting. Request that the teacher read it aloud to the class before resignation/firing.

[golentan]

Hmm, I like the idea of him going insane, but I don't know how to portray it. And, no, she dosen't know about Gitp. She thinks roleplaying is "Pure satanry" (as she calls it)

Maybe start with him being a very reserved, calm person. Have him grow more prone to hysterics as you go along, delusions and descriptions that clearly conflict with reasonable things he said before things started going wrong, and include passages speculating on conspiracy theories about his friends/coworkers getting more outlandish over time.

I can help, I actually am diagnosed with a psychotic illness. If you want some first hand research, I can describe a bad day for me, or what I've seen on some of my hospital visits. I'd rather do it in PM, though.

[PersonMan]

Maybe start with him being a very reserved, calm person. Have him grow more prone to hysterics as you go along, delusions and descriptions that clearly conflict with reasonable things he said before things started going wrong, and include passages speculating on conspiracy theories about his friends/coworkers getting more outlandish over time.

I can help, I actually am diagnosed with a psychotic illness. If you want some first hand research, I can describe a bad day for me, or what I've seen on some of my hospital visits. I'd rather do it in PM, though.

This works.

Also, I recently read Flowers for Algernon, and I advise that you make the character aware of his slow slide into madness, writing about how nothing makes sense anymore, how what he sees can't exist, etc.

Then later have him write about how other people must be writing in his journal, putting crazy stuff like that to make him think he's insane...

[Froogleyboy]

that'd be helpful

[Maximum Zersk]

Also, take a look at a bunch of different disorders. DID, Schizophrenia, etc. It may help write the character for when he goes crazier.

[Froogleyboy]

try to top "Rats in the walls" it's perfect.



just read it, great story

[PersonMan]

Also, take a look at a bunch of different disorders. DID, Schizophrenia, etc. It may help write the character for when he goes crazier.

Seconded.

Also, you could have the character write about how he's been researching these things and suspects that he has some of the symptoms.

Later you might want to have him reject his own research/ideas/suspicions and claim that he is completely fine, then in the next entry write about how he can feel his mind falling apart, then switch back to denial, etc.

[Raiki]

I second the suggestion to use local monuments. I mean, come on, how much more could you ask for with an asylum right there in your home town? Writing things journal style (as has been suggested before) is a good way to heighten or reduce tension and drama at key points, and it paves the way for intentional breaks in proper grammar/spelling to emphasize the deteriorating mental state of the character. With all the different personalities here itP to critique the writing (assuming you feel like sharing), you could really blow their minds.

~R~

[Egiam]

Look up some Al Hitchcock interviews. He shared some good advice.

-Terror is being chased by a madman with a knife. Horror is watching a personing getting gruesomely killed by said madman.

-Suspense is when you know something the character(s) doesn't know.

EXAMPLE:
Jimmy is eating breakfast in his house, oblivious to the sniper across the street adjusting his scope for range.

-Suspense can also be found in a lack of information. Keep the reader guessing.

CONT EXAMPLE:
The main character, Fred, is trying to call Jimmy to warn him of the impending danger, but the phone line has been cut/cell phone is off. All that Fred knows is that a hitman has been sent to deal with Jimmy. He now races to the character's house, trying to save him before it's too late.

^ In this example, it is (debatably) more suspenseful if the reader does not know of the hitman. If the reader does know how much longer the rescuer has, is becomes an action story. Bond shoots the baddie at the last minute, and saves the day again. But if the reader does not know the details, another kind of suspense is found.

CONT EXAMPLE:
Fred gets to his house, and knocks on the door. No one answers. He knocks harder, again, no answer (lengthy description of Fred's anxiety, including sweat and shaking hands here). He slowly twists the door handle, and to his surprise, it is unlocked. He creeps through the hallway, in growing dread. The bathroom door opens. Fred ducks behind a table, and sighs in relief to see his still alive friend walk out. He is safe. Peeking over the table, he watches Jimmy take a few steps towards the kitchen.

Then the bullet goes through his head.


^ This is not supposed to be a good reading. It is supposed to demonstrate the different kinds of suspense, and the control of the audience's emotions. Keep changing the tone of the story. We see that Jimmy is safe, and experience a sense of security. Then we destroy it.

[Froogleyboy]

Look up some Al Hitchcock interviews. He shared some good advice.

-Terror is being chased by a madman with a knife. Horror is watching a personing getting gruesomely killed by said madman.

-Suspense is when you know something the character(s) doesn't know.

EXAMPLE:
Jimmy is eating breakfast in his house, oblivious to the sniper across the street adjusting his scope for range.

-Suspense can also be found in a lack of information. Keep the reader guessing.

CONT EXAMPLE:
The main character, Fred, is trying to call Jimmy to warn him of the impending danger, but the phone line has been cut/cell phone is off. All that Fred knows is that a hitman has been sent to deal with Jimmy. He now races to the character's house, trying to save him before it's too late.

^ In this example, it is (debatably) more suspenseful if the reader does not know of the hitman. If the reader does know how much longer the rescuer has, is becomes an action story. Bond shoots the baddie at the last minute, and saves the day again. But if the reader does not know the details, another kind of suspense is found.

CONT EXAMPLE:
Fred gets to his house, and knocks on the door. No one answers. He knocks harder, again, no answer (lengthy description of Fred's anxiety, including sweat and shaking hands here). He slowly twists the door handle, and to his surprise, it is unlocked. He creeps through the hallway, in growing dread. The bathroom door opens. Fred ducks behind a table, and sighs in relief to see his still alive friend walk out. He is safe. Peeking over the table, he watches Jimmy take a few steps towards the kitchen.

Then the bullet goes through his head.


^ This is not supposed to be a good reading. It is supposed to demonstrate the different kinds of suspense, and the control of the audience's emotions. Keep changing the tone of the story. We see that Jimmy is safe, and experience a sense of security. Then we destroy it.
Hmm, that is some awesome advice right there

[MethosH]

I can help you write pretty disturbing stuff.... That is all I can say without having to bend the forum rules.

[Froogleyboy]

I can help you write pretty disturbing stuff.... That is all I can say without having to bend the forum rules.

do the rules apply to pm? if not, help me out

[MethosH]

do the rules apply to pm? if not, help me out

They do, but I'll pm you my MSN and GTalk :smallbiggrin:

[Froogleyboy]

They do, but I'll pm you my MSN and GTalk :smallbiggrin:

I'm downloading GTalk now :)

[PersonMan]

Good luck with this.

Also, if you could tell us the results of your writing, please do so.

[golentan]

Sent you a P.M. with how stuff feels as best I can think to describe it. It's not perfect, but...

Also, I'd love to read this. If it turns out well, you should also consider publishing. Send it to some editors.

[Froogleyboy]

Oh, I'd never be good enough to publish. But I will post it on the forum

[Starfols]

As much as I love horror novels, I think this might be the wrong approach. I've heard about your reputation in your school, and I don't think disturbing them further would help any.

If you are writing a horror novel for it's own sake, though, I would say try and learn about your teachers hobbies/quotes and try and work them in without knowing or somesuch. You gotta remember she's going to be reading it aloud in a brightly lit, crowded room in a position of authority, so it's gotta be personally disturbing to make an effect.

[Froogleyboy]

so it's gotta be personally disturbing to make an effect.

*chuckle* that can be arranged

[MethosH]

As much as I love horror novels, I think this might be the wrong approach. I've heard about your reputation in your school, and I don't think disturbing them further would help any.

If you are writing a horror novel for it's own sake, though, I would say try and learn about your teachers hobbies/quotes and try and work them in without knowing or somesuch. You gotta remember she's going to be reading it aloud in a brightly lit, crowded room in a position of authority, so it's gotta be personally disturbing to make an effect.

He is right you know?
If you want to go against all authority you gotta play smart.

[Sneak]

Why are you doing this?

If you just want to write a horror novel, that's fine, but it seems to me that you're doing this for the wrong reasons. As Elvenblade said, if you're not exaggerating, you really don't have to put up with this kind of treatment.

Plus, no offense, but what if it ends up being terrible? Then you're just further humiliated.

tl;dr: Don't go along with her bull****. What she's doing is definitely grounds for some sort of punishment, if not outright dismissal.

[Froogleyboy]

Plus, no offense, but what if it ends up being terrible?
.

But, what if it dosen't? ;)

[icastflare!]

But, what if it dosen't? ;)

make sure it isnt. re-read parts of lovecraft's work that stick out in your mind if you want to.I'll try to send part of one of my attempts your way.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Better idea: Look up "Writer" in the dictionary, it'll probably say something along the lines of "One who writes". Highlight that definition, slide said dictionary over to her from across the table. Pose triumphantly.

[Erts]

Better idea: Look up "Writer" in the dictionary, it'll probably say something along the lines of "One who writes". Highlight that definition, slide said dictionary over to her from across the table. Pose triumphantly.

Agreed.

Also, this would be a very quick time to write a novel in (especially for your first time writing this!), and I assume you have other homework you have to do.

You really should report this. This is just a teacher being a sadist, bullying one of her students.

In fact, you should type up an essay complaining, post it on the forum, and then submit it.

[Graymayre]

Agreed.

Also, this would be a very quick time to write a novel in (especially for your first time writing this!), and I assume you have other homework you have to do.

You really should report this. This is just a teacher being a sadist, bullying one of her students.

In fact, you should type up an essay complaining, post it on the forum, and then submit it.

I agree with this.

What you could also do is write a mind-numbingly dry story. Something that would destroy anyone's capacity to be legitimately interested in it.

[The Extinguisher]

Yeah, complying with the teacher's bullying, even if it's to prove a point, is still complying with the teacher's bullying.

[Reinholdt]

I agree with this.

What you could also do is write a mind-numbingly dry story. Something that would destroy anyone's capacity to be legitimately interested in it.

Agreed. Write the most boring novel in the world.

Well actually, disagree. If the teacher was doing this to the whole class, then she could probably get away with it. As it is, it's unfairly singling you out and is likely against school rules. Go report it.

[Fiery Diamond]

Is the school you go to a religious school by any chance? That's the only way I can possibly imagine that your teacher could entertain the idea of getting away with such abuse (and she still should not be allowed to get away with it). And it is abuse. Write if you want, but I suggest you saying something to the authorities as a more important step. This teacher deserves harsh disciplinary action, immediately.

If I ever had a teacher like that when I was pre-college (I'm in college now, and college is...well, different in a lot of ways. For one thing, there is considerably more freedom over what classes you choose to care about.) I would have gotten my parents involved and gone straight to the top; if going to the principle didn't get at the very least a public apology and admission of wrongdoing, I'd go to the school board. That kind of thing is not to be tolerated. Period.

[Sneak]

But, what if it dosen't? ;)

If the teacher is as bad as you say, writing a good novel will probably just infuriate her more and lead to more abuse. No good can come of playing along here.

I'm not trying to discouraging you from writing, but in this situation, if you're telling us is the whole story, you need to take real action.

[Starfols]

Agreed. Write the most boring novel in the world.

Sooo....give her a copy of Wuthering Heights? :smallwink:

[Thanatos 51-50]

Sooo....give her a copy of Wuthering Heights? :smallwink:

I believe you mean Jane Eyre, my good man.

[golentan]

Nonsense. Tess of the D'urbervilles makes those choices pale in comparison.

[Kyouhen]

I vote you talk to her superiors about this. She's singling you out, and even if you wrote the best story of all time the biggest issue with grading written work like that is that it's entirely the teacher's opinion. All she would have to say is that it's garbage, pass you the fail, and leave it at that. And the longer you let this continue the harder it'll be to get help when it comes to that.

[Lioness]

If you really do want to write it, load it with creepy descriptions. Not overly long ones, but creepy, disturbing, haunting, creepy ones. You are the DM. You are trying to really make your players scared.


How long does she want this to be? Short stories can be good with horror too.

[Froogleyboy]

If you really do want to write it, load it with creepy descriptions. Not overly long ones, but creepy, disturbing, haunting, creepy ones. You are the DM. You are trying to really make your players scared.


How long does she want this to be? Short stories can be good with horror too.

two or three hundred pages. I forget which she said

[golentan]

two or three hundred pages. I forget which she said

That's totally unfair. A huge number of good books cap out at 120. Length is no guarantee of quality, though you may wish to avoid phrasing it precisely like that.

Also, yeah. Take this to school leadership, preferrably via parental units (I know you have home problems, but if you can get them swinging on your side it helps).

Edit: Still write the book too though. It adds a nice "Up yours" as the capstone to your protest, and I want to read this puppy.

[Froogleyboy]

so, people, back on topic, how to disturb people

[Amiel]

two or three hundred pages. I forget which she said

The Hell? :smallconfused:
Even uni essays top in at ~12,000 words at most, and that can be shared between two people.

Your teacher is making you go through cruel and unusual punishment, I would protest this to the relevant authorities.

[Froogleyboy]

I'm gonna get it done just so it'll be a big middle finger to her, ya know. It'll be fun

[Lioness]

two or three hundred pages. I forget which she said

And she's going to read the whole thing out to the class? Does she realise what an epic waste of learning time that will be, or will she get two pages into it and proclaim it a waste of her valuable time?

I vote for doing it NaNoWriMo style. Keep going. Don't edit. 1000 words in 15 minutes.

[Amiel]

Also no editing; leave it as one giant run-on sentence. Demand that she finish it in one breath.

[SensFan]

two or three hundred pages. I forget which she said
If she means that pagecount as in Microsoft Word pages, then the task is quite literally impossible. I just did a quick 'test', and so filled up 239 pages with useless words (in equal amounts of 1, 2, 3, 4-letter words), with a paragraph break every 248 words.

That 'novel', about the same length as the one you have been assigned, has a word count of 281,232 words.
Just for reference, Harry Potter 5 has 257,045 words.

[Kyouhen]

And she's going to read the whole thing out to the class? Does she realise what an epic waste of learning time that will be, or will she get two pages into it and proclaim it a waste of her valuable time?

I vote for doing it NaNoWriMo style. Keep going. Don't edit. 1000 words in 15 minutes.

Exactly. She isn't going to read the thing. She's going to make you do all that work, take a look at the first page, declare it crap and fail you.

[Froogleyboy]

I'm mainly doing it for fun now though, who knows, it could get published

[Lioness]

If she means that pagecount as in Microsoft Word pages, then the task is quite literally impossible. I just did a quick 'test', and so filled up 239 pages with useless words (in equal amounts of 1, 2, 3, 4-letter words), with a paragraph break every 248 words.

That 'novel', about the same length as the one you have been assigned, has a word count of 281,232 words.
Just for reference, Harry Potter 5 has 257,045 words.
Not sure about that. My NaNo was 50K exactly, and I got about 100 pages. 200-300 should give him a 100-150K novel.

[The Glyphstone]

I'm mainly doing it for fun now though, who knows, it could get published

Listen to the smart people here. Get authorities involved, this is not right.

If you're dead set on writing something, do that to. But don't do it alone - get the principal/superintendent/dean/nun superior/school head of choice involved and aware of what's going on, and then request that they sit in that day to attend the 'reading'.

[Zanaril]

This reminds me of one time when my form class did an assembly for Hallowe'en. We read out a story (with sound effects) about a caretaker who went crazy and killed some students. One key plot point was that the caretaker whistled a certain tune.

For the rest of the week, people kept freaking out whenever someone near them whistled the tune. :smallbiggrin:

[Lioness]

This reminds me of one time when my form class did an assembly for Hallowe'en. We read out a story (with sound effects) about a caretaker who went crazy and killed some students. One key plot point was that the caretaker whistled a certain tune.

For the rest of the week, people kept freaking out whenever someone near them whistled the tune. :smallbiggrin:

That's like when I read The Stand. I wouldn't go near anyone who so much as sniffed.

So, yeah. Take something familiar, every day, ordinary, and make it scary. Make it demented, twisted, evil, and grotesque. Have it recur, a lot, but not enough so that it just becomes average. Have it be a catalyst for something really bad.

[Asta Kask]

Hmm, I like the idea of him going insane, but I don't know how to portray it. And, no, she dosen't know about Gitp. She thinks roleplaying is "Pure satanry" (as she calls it)

Well, it is, isn't it. Are you calling Jack Chick a liar?

Watch this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEXyqe85cuA) With headphones. Warning, strong imagery, may be an unpleasant watch, but pretty good.

Edit: 200-300 pages is insane. Talk to the school board. Then write it anyway.

[Maximum Zersk]

Well, it is, isn't it. Are you calling Jack Chick a liar?

Watch this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEXyqe85cuA) With headphones. Warning, strong imagery, may be an unpleasant watch, but pretty good.

Edit: 200-300 pages is insane. Talk to the school board. Then write it anyway.

No, it is not 'pure satanry'.

It's pure santary, of course. :smalltongue:

[Felixaar]

If she means that pagecount as in Microsoft Word pages, then the task is quite literally impossible. I just did a quick 'test', and so filled up 239 pages with useless words (in equal amounts of 1, 2, 3, 4-letter words), with a paragraph break every 248 words.

That 'novel', about the same length as the one you have been assigned, has a word count of 281,232 words.
Just for reference, Harry Potter 5 has 257,045 words.

Keep in mind that a manuscript should be double spaced. Also, not to be doubter, but this doesnt seem right - my novel is 186K, but pulls up 676 pages.

Froogleyboy: How long have you got? Work out how much time you've got, divide it by how much you need to write, and then STAY WAY AHEAD OF THE GOAL. And of course, you will want to write.

A good goal should be roughly eighty thousand words for a novel, but just go with your heart.

As for things that disturb people, snakes. On a plane. Spiders. In the sink. Mutant polar bears. In the fridge.

Oh, or you could do this - just repeat the following over and over again.

"My novel is called, "The Novel." This kid is in class, and he calls himself a writer, and his horrible, mean teacher - whose actually very nice - tells him he's not unless he writes a novel by the end of the year. So he goes to write a novel. But he decides he doesnt want to write a novel just because his teacher says so, so he just writes a novel about this kid who's in class, and h e calls himself a writer, and his horrible, mean teacher - whose actually very nice - tells him he's not unless he writes a novel by the end of the year. So he goes to write a novel. But he decides he doesnt want to write a novel just because his teacher says so, so he just writes a novel ETC ETC ETC."

[Asta Kask]

Hmm... she said 200-300 pages, but did she specify font size? I see possibilities here...

[Quincunx]

Font size, margins a tiny bit too wide, unusually broad fonts, turning off hyphenation, turning on justification (which makes the text margins align)--all time-honored ways to pad word count.

I have to commend this entire thread. The advice may be pulling in several directions but it all is good.

[Asta Kask]

Set the pig on her!

[CoffeeIncluded]

Get the authorities involved; this CAN'T be legal! And then make her life hell. :smallamused:

[thubby]

Font size, margins a tiny bit too wide, unusually broad fonts, turning off hyphenation, turning on justification (which makes the text margins align)--all time-honored ways to pad word count.

I have to commend this entire thread. The advice may be pulling in several directions but it all is good.


if we're going to stretch text, replace all periods with periods in another font or size (few if any people will notice a 13 ariel period in a times new roman 12 document, but it can add in the area of a 10th of a page per page of text)

[Liffguard]

so, people, back on topic, how to disturb people

Read some R. Scott Bakker. Neuropath isn't a very well-written novel but it has some truly disturbing explorations of psychological horror. The basic premise of the book is that neuroscience has progressed to the point that the exact circuitry and function of the human is nearly completely understood. Free will is an illusion, and this fact can be commercially exploited.

The villain is a neurosurgeon who kidnaps people and re-wires their brains to strip away humanity's ideas of specialness and self-importance. One character can no longer remember faces at all, everyone is a permanent stranger to him. An eight-year-old boy becomes terrified of everything. Imagine the last time you were truly sick with dread, that deep primal horror in the pit of your stomach. Imagine feeling that way all the time, at anything and everything, and there's nothing anyone can possibly do about it because the only person skilled enough to fix you was the person who did it to you in the first place.

[Sereg]

I agree that you need to go to the authorities and that using the dictionary is a good idea. Of course, if you want to write it anyway, you have my full support. Combining some of the ideas people have given, make your main character the teacher or an obvious expy of him/her. Write it in first person (more effective when it's being read aloud). The teacher realises that something very bad is happening at the asylum and decides to investigate. S/he finds what s/he is slowly discovering to be highly disturbing and haunting and it begins to unhinge his/her sanity. S/he keeps a diary that makes notes of the discoveries that become increasingly incoherent. The teacher attempts to inform people as to what's going on, but noone believes him/her as they can see that s/he is not quite right in the head. Eventually the teacher ends up in the assylum him/herself as his/her lack of sanity becomes obvious and s/he is forced to face the horror inside alone. End.

[Anuan]

on a pass/fail bases. She told me to write about

...Do you mean that she'll fail you if you havn't done this?

[RationalGoblin]

...Do you mean that she'll fail you if you havn't done this?

It seems like that's what he's saying, yes.

[Dogmantra]

Write the word "a" four million times. Insist that he told you to read it all the way through, and that there was no indication of quality or the fact it had to make sense.

Now that's disturbing.

[toasty]

I believe you mean Jane Eyre, my good man.

For the record, I thought that book was entertaining. Not amazing, but entertaining.

I'm no good at horror, sadly, but I could help you if you needed to write an essay on something... I'm good at though, I guess.

[Yucca]

Definitely get the teacher's superiors involved. I like the idea of asking them to sit-in on the reading. That way they know what's happening without you sounding like you're whining or telling on the teacher.

The opening scene of the story should be a teacher who does pretty much exactly this to a student. She's fired because of it, and then events conspire where she slowly goes insane. Local landmarks, knowing what street she lives on, what her hobbies are, all these things NEED to be in the book. Even to the point of using a slightly modified version of her name.

But you'd need to be careful that is doesn't come off as a threat. Having her stalked and tormented by an angry student might get the police involved.

Instead have her self-destruct. She loses her job, and her husband realizes what an awful person she is so he leaves her. Abandoned by all of her friends, she hits the bottle hard. In her drunken stupors she starts hallucinating about [demons, ghosts, etc] planning something apocalyptic. At first she is able to shrug off the visions, but things start happening to make her think they're real. She tries to warn society but no-one listens. She's committed and is forced to watch helplessly as the plans she's still seeing unfold. A good ending escapes me at the moment.

Telling it though journals and diaries is a good call too.

Also: Bryce? Are you in Tuscaloosa?

[PJ the Epic]

Might I suggest something like *cough cough* Alice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142851)?

[Arti3]

No, it is not 'pure satanry'.

It's pure santary, of course. :smalltongue:

No, it is not 'pure santary'.

It's pure santanary, of course. :smalltongue:

[Graymayre]

Definitely get the teacher's superiors involved. I like the idea of asking them to sit-in on the reading. That way they know what's happening without you sounding like you're whining or telling on the teacher.

The opening scene of the story should be a teacher who does pretty much exactly this to a student. She's fired because of it, and then events conspire where she slowly goes insane. Local landmarks, knowing what street she lives on, what her hobbies are, all these things NEED to be in the book. Even to the point of using a slightly modified version of her name.

But you'd need to be careful that is doesn't come off as a threat. Having her stalked and tormented by an angry student might get the police involved.

Instead have her self-destruct. She loses her job, and her husband realizes what an awful person she is so he leaves her. Abandoned by all of her friends, she hits the bottle hard. In her drunken stupors she starts hallucinating about [demons, ghosts, etc] planning something apocalyptic. At first she is able to shrug off the visions, but things start happening to make her think they're real. She tries to warn society but no-one listens. She's committed and is forced to watch helplessly as the plans she's still seeing unfold. A good ending escapes me at the moment.

Telling it though journals and diaries is a good call too.

Also: Bryce? Are you in Tuscaloosa?

This, a thousand times.

[742]

i would do some creepy research into the teachers past and any phobias, and just make it about the most embarassing moments in their life, then the rest a horror story about their biggest phobias; thats probably illegal though(social networking pages and asking other teachers is probably okay). if your going the horror path definitely ask around to see if he/she has any phobias-and go into details, try to understand it and use that in the descriptions. oh and make sure to include at least one very detailed sex scene that simply isnt something they can read aloud to the class legally-but includes important plot details so the rest of the story doesnt make sense without it. give any characters with horrible horrible fates character traits that the teacher strongly identifies with (not necessarily just ones they have, but those they identify with). i find first person narration helps for characterization and seems like it would be especially good in horror, doubly so for shifting first person perspective. remember to get in their head-and not just how YOU percieve them, but how they percieve themselves. to summarize: get in their head..

when going for horror dont say "and then the beast devoured him whole" say something more like "the howls echoed through the night. she ran away but their advance continued-seemingly from all directions, heart pounding she raced towards the door, maybe if she could get their in time..." *new paragraph and new character speaking* "what the hell was that?" "i dont know, it sounded like woman screaming" or maybe "it advanced; wet teeth glistening in the moonlight, it advanced slowly. it must have been smart, it saw they had no way out, maybe it liked to make its quarry squirm-whatever its motivations it leaped, horrid teeth ripping john's head clean off; a claw shearing through janes shoulder... and then the glint in its eye as its head snapped towards... me." suspense is good and remember:
WARNING: TV TROPES LINK http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NothingIsScarier

edit: dont make it a dig at your teacher, just a horror story with a specific narrow well targeted audience of one, find out what traits the teacher identifies that and give your characters those traits, find out phobias and use them. spiders? its about giant spiders. being burried alive? maybe its about a group of people trapped in a mine when a tunnel collapses, or a serial killer and one of the (particularly sympathetic) characters is buried alive? scared of the dark? well that falls into cliche territory.

[Brother Oni]

Going back to the original topic of depicting horror, here's a good example of somebody going mad (or rather he went mad):

Methods of Torture: Caldari (http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=13-02-07a)

Although it's set in the Eve Online universe, it can be re-jigged about to almost any sci-fi setting.

One way of expanding it and making it your own story - have the protagonist not realise he's had the treatment. That way when the device kicks in and flashes random images over his optic nerve, the reader will be as freaked out as he is.

[llamamushroom]

I'm going to start this with: good on you for writing the novel. I'm also going to second the 'inform the relevant authorities' crowd, but it sounds like you actually want to write.

Now, as a high-school student who has been in classes with... interesting people, I don't think you should go as far as doing what some people have suggested. By all means, set the novel close to home ("write what you know"), use some of your teacher's phobias, but do not make it obviously a dig at your teacher; this will not make you seem the 'bigger man' - it will make you look impotent and like you're trying to get your revenge the only way you can. And the other students will notice. They will tell more students, and your position within the school will drop noticeably. Personally, I always go by the "do not make an impression" rule, so doing something that attention-grabbing (and what essentially amounts to a personal attack on your teacher will get people's attention) rubs me the wrong way.

I'm not saying not to make the novel frightening for your teacher, or channelling your frustration through the medium of novel, or anything like that. I'm just saying you shouldn't make it obvious.

Good luck with the writing. If you need ways of making it really scary, you could try a survey of the other students for what makes something scary for them. Or you could do the same here. My answer would be: people who seem perfectly normal, but there is that slight difference in their point of view that makes them see killing as no big deal. That's my main one. Characters who feel emotional after killing (even if that emotion is 'cold') I can understand and sympathise with as an audience. If they just do it and... yeah... it freaks me out.

[Anuan]

It seems like that's what he's saying, yes.

...This can not be legal. No way. If this is true, then I am losing faith in humanity.

[Yucca]

By all means, set the novel close to home ("write what you know"), use some of your teacher's phobias, but do not make it obviously a dig at your teacher; this will not make you seem the 'bigger man' - it will make you look impotent and like you're trying to get your revenge the only way you can. And the other students will notice. They will tell more students, and your position within the school will drop noticeably. Personally, I always go by the "do not make an impression" rule, so doing something that attention-grabbing (and what essentially amounts to a personal attack on your teacher will get people's attention) rubs me the wrong way.

I pretty strongly disagree with this. I doubt that anyone [except maybe the teacher herself] thinks that this is a fair situation. The other students recognize this, and if you use it as an opportunity to stand up for yourself [by actually writing it, but attacking the teacher in it], then they will probably recognize it. Students have very little say against a teacher, any successful attempt to take-her-down-a-peg would be seen as the opposite of "impotent". It won't make you the most popular kid in school, but, as long as the novel is decent, it won't make you a joke.

He's already made an impression. Presumably the "discussion" he had with the teacher was during class, so other students saw the gauntlet being thrown. The teacher will also be taking several days out of class to read his work [if she follows through on her threat]. So he can't not make an impression. Like I said above, the other students will respect this. They'll see it as a sneaky, intelligent, legitimate way of attacking a teacher that she, quite literally, asked for.

To those who are saying to "research" her and use her phobias: Where is he going to find them? Seriously? Other students won't know. Other teachers won't tell you even if they knew. I've been a high school teacher, and if a student came to me asking "What is Mrs. XX deathly afraid of." My response would be "That's inappropriately personal" then I would go tell Mrs. XX about it.

tl;dr Doing this won't seem weak and there's little chance of successfully "researching" the teacher.

Wow. Long post on account of "writing genre fiction" and "the public education system" being two things I have a lot of stake in.

[Lord Loss]

Talk to the teacher about it. If she won't stop, take matters to the principal.

[Froogleyboy]

I talked to her about it and she said "Well, when you finish it. I'll let the class decide your grade" and she gave me a smirk the made me wana knock her teeth out

[Thelas]

Get it in writing? Signed, in triplicate, get one copy for you, one for her, and one for the principal, take the MD5 hash and post it on the nearest bulletin board, get the hash signed by her, sign it using a PGP key... okay, that might be a bit excessive. But if you don't trust them to keep their word, I'd say get it in writing in some form.

Also, I'll just share my support for your endeavors.
Also, if half the stuff you say is true, I will lose faith in humanity pretty soon... *ticking of clock*

[Lycan 01]

So you're being blackmailed into writing a full novel so you don't fail the class?

Yeah, go the principle. And the local media. Create a firestorm. Then write about it. :smallamused:


Edit: Better yet, set up a meeting where you can ask her about why she's making you do this, and if she'll really pass you if you fail. Tell her that's not fair, and see how she reacts.

Tape record the whole thing. :smallbiggrin:

[Raiki]

Well, I think that it's been pretty well established that a lot of the people who live with/around Froogley don't really fall under the umbrella of 'Humanity'. Please don't judge the entire race based on the average (and by that I mean stereotypical, of course) Alabamian (Alabamite?, Alabamianite?). Most places in the bible belt have a very vocal minority with very strong negative opinions about our favorite hobby and its surrounding elements.

~R~

[Froogleyboy]

stereotypical, of course) Alabamian (Alabamite?, Alabamianite?). Most places in the bible belt have a very vocal minority with very strong negative opinions about our favorite hobby and its surrounding elements.

~R~

you got that right!

[Lycan 01]

I'm from Mississippi, actually, and I've told some of my professors about DnD and whatnot. They not only like the idea, but one said that if he was younger, he'd love to be part of something like that. :smallbiggrin:



Seriously, don't put up with this. Your Constitutional Rights are being imposed on here, I think. Your Freedom of Speech has been violated - you're being punished for wanting to be creative. Plus, your being blackmailed with the threat of failure for something not even connected with the class. This sounds SO illegal. The administration needs to be made aware of the corruption within its ranks... :smallannoyed:

[Raiki]

Unfortunately, most "Constitutional Rights" end at the doorway of a public school. This is because, while you do have the right to free speech, right to congregate and all that, you do NOT, unfortunately, have the right to a public education. They are well within their rights to kick you out with only the flimsiest of excuses. On top of this, most administrators don't bother to look at why a student gets the grade he does in any given class unless given a reason to look.

And Lycan, by no stretch of the imagination was I trying to say that southerners don't D&D. I think it's awesome that your college professors like the idea, but Froogley (unless I'm highly mistaken, in which case I'll shut up) is in High School, where everyone is less tolerant of everything, and being different (Like our Froogley) is the biggest crime one can commit.

Anyway, I fully support you Froog, and I hope you manage to write something to make that spiteful teacher's jaw drop. Good luck, and if you need anyone to take a look over anything, my PM box is always open.

~R~

[RandomNPC]

I still say the rats in the walls is a good way to go. Just make it at a local landmark building, tell the story in a simmilar style where the main character finds a close friend murdered, then reveal that the main character has become the slender man!

[Froogleyboy]

I still say the rats in the walls is a good way to go. Just make it at a local landmark building, tell the story in a simmilar style where the main character finds a close friend murdered, then reveal that the main character has become the slender man!

I'm gonna attempt to get it published, so I don't want it to be too similar

[thorgrim29]

Huh.... that's just dumb. The whole situation. Because unless god-knows-why (see what I did there) you've never had to do creative writing at your school, every single one of your classmates qualifies as a writer, heck, maybe even then. Plus, I assume there's a curriculum of some sort the teacher has to respect for her class, and I'd bet anything having one random pupil writing a novel for her own sadistic amusement isn't in it. Therefore, assuming the institution you go to works according to rules that are (even loosely and distantly) sane she can't do that. Take it to the principle/dean/whatever. If they don't agree with you, have her write it down and sign it and take it to the municipal level, then higher if necessary.

But first go see her in her office and explain, calmly and without being insulting, what's wrong with that punishment. And if you see she's even mildly receptive, tell her that she must have chosen being an english teacher for a reason, and unless that reason was taken straight out of 1984 punishing creativity and lack of conformity probably goes against it. Hell, quote the bible at the woman if you need to, I'm not as familiar with it as I used to be (went through the thing in elementary school because I thought I needed to know it before my First Communion and never opened it since) but I'm sure there's something in there about the evils of oppression and the need for creativity to be nurtured, not put down.

[Froogleyboy]

Hell, quote the bible at the woman if you need to,.

I don't know it :(

[thorgrim29]

So, it's public domain, therefore on the internet, therefore easy to search via control+f.

[Froogleyboy]

So, it's public domain, therefore on the internet, therefore easy to search via control+f.

I have a copy, just haven't read it

[thorgrim29]

Well yeah, that's why you do a keyword search on the net, besides, that's a minor point. The point is that working your butt off conforming to an insane punishment isn't acceptable, and there's no reason you should do it.

[Jack Squat]

The point is that working your butt off conforming to an insane punishment isn't acceptable, and there's no reason you should do it.

This. A lesser man would advocate taking a personal vendetta against the teacher and making her life a living hell at every chance you get.

While I am a lesser man, that's not the smart move. Get some of your friends (or lacking those, classmates) and to corroborate your story and drag them and your parents into the administrative offices to make the administration immensely aware of the situation. Don't (have your parents) threaten a lawsuit, at least not right off the bat - most of the time that's an empty threat and more of says "I don't want to fight against something I don't agree with and want to try and scare you rather than deal with a minor inconvenience" than "I have been categorically wronged and want compensation."

Just go in there to have the situation resolved. If it can't be internally resolved (at first the school then district level), then look towards legal options. I'm fairly certain this is against some law or another, but I should really be reading Roman epics rather than digging through legalese, so check for yourself.

[druid91]

And Lycan, by no stretch of the imagination was I trying to say that southerners don't D&D. I think it's awesome that your college professors like the idea, but Froogley (unless I'm highly mistaken, in which case I'll shut up) is in High School, where everyone is less tolerant of everything, and being different (Like our Froogley) is the biggest crime one can commit.


I find this mildly hilarious, When I was in high school I hung out with a group of people that was an odd mixture of emo/goths and math/d&d/video-game nerds, me being in the second category, just so you don't get the wrong mental image. we would regularly have conversations about killing each other in medieval style combat and/or taking over the world in front of administrators. they would either laugh or ignore us. The only one who got any extra attention at all was the one who refused to call us by our real names and spoke in an odd mixture of Japanese and English, that and referred to herself in third person,And followed people around to the point of being late to class.

[Raiki]

I find this mildly hilarious, When I was in high school I hung out with a group of people that was an odd mixture of emo/goths and math/d&d/video-game nerds, me being in the second category, just so you don't get the wrong mental image. we would regularly have conversations about killing each other in medieval style combat and/or taking over the world in front of administrators. they would either laugh or ignore us. The only one who got any extra attention at all was the one who refused to call us by our real names and spoke in an odd mixture of Japanese and English, that and referred to herself in third person,And followed people around to the point of being late to class.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that you very likely went to a moderate-to-large size school? Graduating class of at least 400? Because, believe you me, when you go to highschool in a real backwater town, and your graduating class was 73 people, finding cliques like that isn't easy.

~R~

[Kallisti]

Make sure to put in enough hints of some kind of Lovecraftian horror or cult that the reader can never be entirely sure if something is just a hallucination, or a horrible reality. Never make it entirely clear that the protagonist has gone completely bat**** insane. Make it obvious that he's slipping, but don't let us know for sure how far he's slipped.

[Inhuman Bot]

Seriously, why are you so determined to not just talk to your administration? :smallconfused:

[Tricksy Hobbits]

Your teaher's going to fail you if you don't fallow through on a boast? Ouch.
Any way about the book, maybe have the protaganist trying to figure out what's real and what's not and have solipsism and uncertainty being themes in it.
Oh, and maybe throw in some stuff with him unsure of the reliablity of his own memory. ("I know it happend because I remember it." "How can you be sure you did not immagine it? If in the future, you remember this convesation, how can you be sure we really talked to each other?")

[druid91]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that you very likely went to a moderate-to-large size school? Graduating class of at least 400? Because, believe you me, when you go to highschool in a real backwater town, and your graduating class was 73 people, finding cliques like that isn't easy.

~R~

284 people in my class in the yearbook. I missed the backwater-town era of my town by a few decades.

And froogleyboy one thing I have always found creepy is the idea that there is more in someplace then should be there, say a wall gets broken and there is a floor hatch to a room with the economicon.

[Coplantor]

it's incredible how, after reading the first post all I could think was of Lovecraft, and it seems like the same happened to pretty much everyone here, I want to see how this ends.

Play with the narrator, that's the voice inside the reader's mind, what the narrator tells are the images they see. So make them have a little horrified person drawing horrible pictures in their brain.

[Froogleyboy]

Talked to her again and she said, "Well, if you think I'm being unfair, how about we assign it to the entire class? Okay class, thank Logan for making you all have to write a novel" and she gave me that smirk again

[Maximum Zersk]

...I suggest not asking your teacher anything again.

Seriously, can she do this? I agree with telling the higher-ups, this is getting ridiculous.

Also, what subject does she teach? :smallconfused:

[Froogleyboy]

...I suggest not asking your teacher anything again.

Seriously, can she do this? I agree with telling the higher-ups, this is getting ridiculous.

Also, what subject does she teach? :smallconfused:

Reading and writing

[Ikialev]

You have many strange problems, Froog. But seriously, go to an authority of some sort, because this is crazy. Was at beginning of your series of school-problems related posts, but it's even more now.

[Flickerdart]

First? Request an assignment sheet, signed by her and referenced to the class curriculum documents.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Let me side with everyone saying 'Go speak to the higher ups.' And now perhaps your entire class can do it as a group?
After all, it's an injust punishment for a boast.

Advice for disturbing and terrifying stories. Here's my attempt.

You don't want anything big. Only 5% differentiation between [presumed local town] and your fiction.
You want a realistic problem/setting. Have an autisic child/adult be the protagonist. They don't see the world as 'normal' people do. I can PM some experiences if you wish?
The best horror is human. The 'villain' or antagonist has to be human or have many human qualities. DO NOT GIVE HIM SYMPATHIES. The worst kind of antagonist is one who just does it. His motive is "Because I can."
Children.
Everything is more terrifying if children are involved. There's a reason why most paedophiles, child murderers, parents who kill their own children and those who harm children they're meant to care for are kept in solitary/highly protected. Other criminals hate them.
My mum says one of the most terrifying things that's ever happened to her is when my brother was just shy of two years old. Mum was heavily pregnant with Littlest brother and Little Brother had gotten out of his toddler reins as was running away.
Into the busy main road. In front of a car.
The group of five or six adult women standing more or less right next to where he was running too just watched. Mum only just managed to grab him in time.
You want apathy.
Have other people know about it, but don't care.
History. Is there anything notorious in your town's history? Anything especially to do with infants?
Take that as your basis. Magnify it, but keep it only 5 - 10% above 'reality'.
Show, don't tell.
Less is more.
Nothing too shocking at first, you want a gentle, nagging, deeply unnerving feeling followed by terror.

[Lycan 01]

Or write a Warhammer 40K short story or novel, since Black Library just got rid of their picky writer requirements in favor of open submissions from May through July. That way you get to write something that will disturb your class AND run a good chance of publication. :smallbiggrin:

[Inhuman Bot]

Talked to her again and she said, "Well, if you think I'm being unfair, how about we assign it to the entire class? Okay class, thank Logan for making you all have to write a novel" and she gave me that smirk again

Yeah, either punch her in the face then talk to your administration, or talk to your administration then punch her in the face. :smalltongue:

[Lycan 01]

Please tell me you tape recorded that remark, or at least have people willing to act as witnesses if/when you talk to the administration. :smallsigh:

[CoffeeIncluded]

You do realize that you can make it so that she'll never set foot in any teaching institution again, right? :smallamused: Seriously though. This isn't funny anymore. You know what you need to do?

GET A LAWYER. GET YOUR PARENTS AND AN EDUCATION LAWYER INVOLVED. NOW.

[Tricksy Hobbits]

Actually, if you're going to write it anyway, I suppose you could start not doing your homework much for her class, then say you're working on the novel she assigned you. Then when she marks you down, complain to the principal.

Or just get good evidence and whatnot, and tell the relevant authorities.

[Quincunx]

All those people who advise talking to the administration: the administration has had to put up with her bullying more experience with her than with him. It took cancer to lay low my middle school's teacher/bully since successive principals either had resigned or been resigned to her. However, if she's going to drag the rest of the class into it even as an idle threat, now you can go to the principal and say "She's trying to punish other people for our personality clash and that isn't right". Take someone else from the class with you to corroborate what you said; approach one of those quiet girls who never speaks up in class and see if her sense of justice extends to being your second when you do this.

[Irenaeus]

I'm a teacher.

I'd advice you to involve your parents, rather than message board members such as myself, as they will probably be able to help you directly with this.

Assuming you accurately represented the teacher's actions in your first and second posts, the teacher's behavior is quite unacceptable. Talk to your parents and a few of your classmates, and then present the case to the school authorities. I don't know the American education system, but I assume a lawyer is large-scale overkill at this point since no grades have been given yet. Even so, make sure to document everything, just in case.

Alternatively, if you are in any way unsure of that your teacher's position is serious (even though it doesn't seem that way in your posts), ask her in private if she's kidding. This might also be an easy way out for you if you do not feel like fighting the good fight, but do not want to suffer cruel and unusual punishment.

All that said, if you want to write something, then write. Just not because of this.

[Asta Kask]

Talked to her again and she said, "Well, if you think I'm being unfair, how about we assign it to the entire class? Okay class, thank Logan for making you all have to write a novel" and she gave me that smirk again

Smirk and tell her "And you'll thank me for having to read and grade 6 000 pages at the end of the semester." 30 people * 200 pages? This is an empty threat. Call her bluff.

[Archonic Energy]

i am a fish.
i am a fish.
i am a fish.
i am a fish.


...
it was good enough for Rimmer. :smallamused:

[Anuan]

Make sure you do a funny little dance and faint after handing it in :smallwink:

[Drend]

Unfortunately, most "Constitutional Rights" end at the doorway of a public school. This is because, while you do have the right to free speech, right to congregate and all that, you do NOT, unfortunately, have the right to a public education. They are well within their rights to kick you out with only the flimsiest of excuses. On top of this, most administrators don't bother to look at why a student gets the grade he does in any given class unless given a reason to look.

(Cut for brevity)

~R~

Actually, you are wrong. In the United States, despite the fact that it is not in the constitution, you do have the right to a FREE public education. It was written into law many decades ago, and in most states, some form of education is mandatory. If it wasn't a right, why would the public education system even exist? In Kansas, my home state, you cannot drop out of school until you are 16, and if home or private schooled, must present evidence of academic progress every year. The Supreme Court of the United States has repeatedly disavowed the "rights stop at the door" concept, most recently if I remember correctly, in 2003. I fought with the administration in my public schools incessantly, and had some 34 suspensions removed from my record. These suspensions came from writing assignments, when the teachers didn't like my point of view. I took the school district to court, and won. I graduated with a 4.12 GPA, and a perfect behavioral record, after adjustments, and 14 teachers being fired. The one I remember most recently was a Boston College grad was hired part way through the year as a Pre-Calculus teacher. He had no teaching degree, but 3 degrees in mathematics, and was 22 years old. 4 years older than me at the time. I remember him saying something stupid, and I called him on it, so he said I wasn't allowed to say anything for the rest of the year, or he'd have me expelled. That year accounted for 13 suspensions alone. It was a lot of fun. I never missed a day of school anyway. After about 2 months of research in the Washburn Law Library, I handed him his termination letter personally. I need to find that stuff again and forward it to the OP.

Don't just complain to the administration. Do the research. You can find most legal documents online, as well as quite a bit of legal advice. Bring in the statutes, and court rulings. It sways the opinions of even the most stubborn officials when they see From the Desk of the Supreme Court Justice BLAH BLAH BLAH on the letter head of a ruling contradicting their decisions.

[lostlittlebear]

-ownage legal-fu-

I wish I lived in a country with a strong tradition of individual rights.

[Coplantor]

I wish I lived in a country with a strong tradition of individual rights.

So I, here is pretty much, "Why would I bother? I'll just roll with it..."
Even if e do have good individual rights.

[Ormagoden]

You might want to try looking at some standard classics for inspiration.

The cask of amontillado and the tell tale heart come to mind first and foremost. I also highly recommend "the long walk" by Richard Bachman (aka stephen king)

Reading however is only 2% of novel creation.
The rest is writing. Which you should never stop doing, Ever.

[Yucca]

--snip--

It really just sounds like you went to a very unprofessional school district.

GPAs over 4.0...Unprofessional
Hiring unlicensed teachers... Unprofessional
Allowing one teacher to suspend a student 13 times without intervention... Unprofessional
Allowing teachers to suspend students if they don't like the student's point of view... Unprofessional
Allowing a student to hand a teacher a letter of termination... Unprofessional

Then again, you did say it was a Kansas school.
(And of course this assumes that you weren't intentionally antagonizing the teachers. Something that I know no high school student would ever think to do.)

[RandomNPC]

ok, this is over a hundred posts and you haven't mentioned taking any advice other than "yea that seems creepy I'll go with that"

Man up, get ahold of the administration, and start talking. Write letters to local news stations too, they eat this stuf up.

Seriously, when i told my parents why I failed history the teacher had to completly re-vamp his teaching methods and has higher ups sit in his class on a regular basis because I called him on it. Technically everyone in the class should have failed, but it was easier to pass me. Here's the story.

Well, we take the final exam, and teacher says "Everyone who didn't sleep in class gets five points, everyone who only missed 5 or fewer days gets five points, everyone who's here gets five points..." at the end of it he gave out about 60 percentage points, everyone auto-passes even if they got every question wrong. Then he walks to my desk and tells me I get no points because I slept to often. nevermind that I didn't get five points for staying awake, I don't get any because I didn't get those.

Within an hour from telling my parents I got a passing grade, granted he still cheated me 20% of my total grade. Know why?

'cause I told someone. Now it's your turn.

[puppyavenger]

A couple things

1. I agree with what everyone else said about involving your Parents and/or other higher ups.
2. She said she'd read it out loud? have you read House of Leaves? Right it in that format, multiple narratives in footnotes, something like half the book being footnotes, the center of the page being outlined and with a different story in it then the rest of the page, and so on. She wants to read out yor novel? make doing it give her a headache.

[GolemsVoice]

Jep, I also suggest the House of Leaves approach. Make the story scary with everything that has been mentioned so far, but make the writing ITSELF part of the story. Works really well with Lovecraftian horror, where the integrity of the narrator is to be questioned.
Say, if your books mentions footprints, draw one across the page, or make the words show the steps the narrator takes, etc.

[Sereg]

This situation started off as ridiculous and has rapidly worsened. Seriously, go to the authorities.

[Froogleyboy]

i talked to the office, they she that she okayed it with her and my parents told me that I should "get over myself"

[Crimmy]

I'm seeing a pattern here.
Have you, at any time, made this teacher go through something embarrasing, or made her way too annoyed st some point of time?

Because what she has, I would call it "infantile evasion of duty" and "petulance".

Now, for another thing (which I suggest you DON'T say to your teacher in public, or in a moment when she can take immediate revenge.) you can always tell her that, next time she tries to make you look bad in front of the whole classroom, she tries to do so in a proper manner, because you are definitely NOT the one who "made them" have to write a novel". That was her, whether she likes to shift guilt or not.

And make sure your friends don't start moaning and complaining about it. I mean, you have, what, 3 months to finish a novel? When you can write one in 1 month? (NaNoWriMo FTW).

Also, I don't know if this you'll find offensive, but:

GO TO SOME FRICKING AUTHORITIES, ALREADY! IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU TO WIN THIS ONE ALONE!

[Umael]

*cough*

Allow me to buck the trend here a little...

Froogleboy: You know the saying, "two wrongs don't make a right?"

Well, as I see it, you are both wrong, you and the teacher.

You annoyed the teacher, she reacted, you responded pretty much without thinking too much about it and for the wrong reasons.

There has been plenty of advice on how to get the higher-ups involved. Follow it.


(1. Writing a story to "show her" is not doing your writing any good. It will stink of anger and entitlement.
2. A fair writing assignment from a third-party should have a clearly defined, measurable, and obtainable goal. Unless something is off, asking you to write 200-300 pages (which is it?) in three months is... measurable. That's it.
3. I am betting you are thinking you should stick with it because of the princi-ple of the thing, but you really need to have a nice, long talk with the princi-pal.)



Coming here and giving everyone else such vague details does not help.

[Amiel]

Actually, I'm starting to have niggling doubts as to the veracity of this story. Especially so given the wise advice given and the responses to them.

[Froogleyboy]

So, other then repeating "Tell on her", any other ideas?

[The Glyphstone]

i talked to the office, they she that she okayed it with her

Sorry, but is this English?

[Amiel]

So, other then repeating "Tell on her", any other ideas?

Nuke her house from orbit; it's the only way to be sure.

[Froogleyboy]

Sorry, but is this English?

it was supposed to say: they said "she okayed it"

[Umael]

it was supposed to say: they said "she okayed it"

How about some direct references instead of some pronouns?

Who is "they"?
Who is "she"?

The way that reads, the office ("they") said that the teacher ("she") okayed it.

In which case - that's not correct. The teacher okayed her own request?

So I would conclude that "she" is supposed to mean your principal/head administrator.

But I would like confirmation.

And details.

[Froogleyboy]

as in, she went bye the office and okeyed it with them. meaniing she asked if it was okay

[The Valiant Turtle]

I was going to post about this earlier in the week but I haven't been feeling well. What she has unofficially agreed to will never actually happen because reading a full length novel aloud in class is such a massive waste of education time that the school would never allow this. That would quite literally take weeks.

I see a few options here. You could get the agreement in writing from her and take it to the administration and point this out to them (the school board might be better than principle or dean of students, but it varies). However, I don't really recommend this. My recommendation is that instead of that you politely point this problem out to her and recommend that instead of writing a novel that she could never possibly read aloud you write a short story instead. (something on the order of 15-25 pages), and she would agree, in writing, to read it aloud to the class in it's entirety.

Keep in mind that a good short story has it's own difficulties, you don't have the luxury of a lot of time to detail everything, so you have to make the most of your words.

I'd recommend that you not get too focused on "revenge" and try to write a good story, but it's not a problem to make it creepy, just make sure it's still a good story (easier said than done).

Anytime I read something like this I'm reminded of the preface to "Prayers to Broken Stones" which is a collection of short stories by Dan Simmons (who does creepy really well by the way). He talks of going to a writing seminar judged by Harlan Ellison. Harlan had verbally ripped up several stories (and the authors) before he got to Simmons and said something like this: "You people thought I was harsh with the previous guys but what I have to say to Simmons is far worse: Simmons, you are a writer. You will be cursed forever to struggle horribly trying to get stories out and lose sleep..." and he went on to explain how painful it can be, even when you're a successful writer. Harlan wrote the forward to that book too, which was interesting. I should see if I can dig that book up. It's got some great examples of the type of story you should be considering too: It's got a story about the dead being brought back to a form of psuedo-life and the impact it has on the family, a story about a telepath who loses his telepathic wife and descends into madness, and lots of other fun and creepy (but good and thought provoking) stories.

In any case you need the agreement in writing, with agreement from the teacher and the principal. Remember to be polite!

[The Unborne]

Allow me to apologize right now for not reading this thread in its entirety, but I hope this has already been mentioned and this post will act as reinforcement.

If this novel is going to determine your grade for the class, then don't you think writing a psychological horror that will perturb your teacher and classmates will only give you a failing grade? You should really rethink this and try to write towards your audience. I'm not positive about where you come from, but your school system sounds like high school or lower. Your classmates will probably not appreciate your writing and/or just reject your writing all together if they aren't amused.

As I said before, write about things that they'll enjoy hearing/reading. Write about things you know and are very familiar with. Most writers keep these things in mind and maybe you should too—this is your grade after all.

[zorba1994]

I suggest that if you are adamant about writing this anyway, you should finish the book before alerting everyone, as there is a slight chance that the controversy could help you get published.

As far as horror writing advice, I agree with a previous post that children make everything scarier. Additionally the weird, in small doses, will scare people more than mundane as they are less desensitized to it. Put the characters in weird situations (e.g. character suddenly finds himself on the top of a tall building with no idea how he got there) , have characters die off in off-kilter ways or use unconventional methods (e.g. a villain with a mutilation habit, or an extremely odd method of dispatching targets). That should help make your story scary, whether or not you use it for this purpose.

As far as the situation IRL, I think that you are withholding some information from us. From the way you are phrasing everything, I'm getting the feeling that the original confrontation was something along the lines of "This homework is stupid, I'm a writer and I don't have to do this" or something similar. While the teacher is in no way in the right on this matter, I'm beginning to have doubts about where Froog stands in this scenario.

Alternatively, has your other writing homework been waived in favor of the novel writing? Because I could see the principal agreeing to that with only a slight imagination stretch. I mean, I was able to complete a NaNoWriMo novel in the required month on top of schoolwork without spending too much extra time on it (I never had to skimp on other activities or stay up late), and with the amount of time left in the school year, I could see being assigned to write the first draft of a novel for all of the homework for one class for the rest of the year.

[Coplantor]

So, other then repeating "Tell on her", any other ideas?

Kill it with fire?:smallconfused:

[Quincunx]

Kill it with fire?:smallconfused:

Yeah, douse her in her native element, that'll help. :smallyuk:

[Kaiser Omnik]

That is some crazy school.

[Coplantor]

Yeah, douse her in her native element, that'll help. :smallyuk:

Kill it with +5 cold iron sword?:smallconfused:

[Mystic Muse]

as in, she went by the office and okayed it with them. meaning she asked if it was okay

So, you asked the office and they said it was okay?

That can't be right. It isn't possible to read a 200-300 page book out loud in a single school day.:smallconfused:

[Fawkes]

What sort of school is this? Middle school or high school? Public or private? What country?

[megabyter5]

The story should chronicle a teacher's descent into madness from the guilt of driving a student to suicide by crushing their dreams of being a writer. Of course it's in journal form, except for the ending...

The last few entries refer to some sort of unspecified event approaching very soon, at first with horror and then with deranged excitement. After the last entry, there will be a letter written by someone reporting that the teacher in question has simply vanished without a trace.

Take a picture of her reaction and put it in your resume.

[Asta Kask]

Write an erotic novel. Graphic. With pigs.

[Crimmy]

So, other then repeating "Tell on her", any other ideas?

Yeah. Do it. I don't see why you won't do it. She does something wrong, you say so, and that's that.

@Asta Kask:
I--
It's--

Can I hug you?

[Anuan]

Write an erotic novel. Graphic. With pigs.

Best. Ever.

You're my new friend :smallbiggrin:

[Asta Kask]

Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week. Try the veal, it's excellent. :smallbiggrin:

[Eldan]

Bestiality. Is there any problem it can't solve?

[Mystic Muse]

Bestiality. Is there any problem it can't solve?

world hunger?

[thorgrim29]

That's what they want you to think

[Asta Kask]

Oh, and to make this absolutely clear. You can ask people to proofread such a novel, but I won't do it.

[Flickerdart]

For bonus points, write it in a language that doesn't share an alphabet with English. Insist she read it. I recommend Chinese or Arabic.

[Fiery Diamond]

Okay. This has gotten to the point where I have serious doubts about Froog's credibility here. I'm going to ask for some clarification from Froog.

1) Can you give us a description of the incident where she originally gave you that assignment?
1A) Were you rude and confrontational during that incident? (Such as, "This is stupid homework, I'm a writer and shouldn't have to do this!" prior to her giving you this particular assignment.)
1B) Was there a history of antagonism between the two of you that culminated in this moment?

2) Can you give us a description of what happened when you went to the office to talk about it?
2A) How did you approach the matter? Were you extremely rude?
2B) How did they respond? Were they very dismissive?

3) Is she actually going to give the rest of the class the assignment or was that merely a threat? What basis do you have for this answer?

4) Is this assignment in addition to or instead of your other homework for this class?

5) Have you spoken to anyone other than the principal, your parents, and the teacher? If not, why not? If so, who? (And no, friends and forumites don't count; I'm talking about authority figures.)

6) What grade are you in?

7) Do you go to a public or private school?

8) How large is your school?

...And lastly, one relatively unimportant question: Do you routinely make all those spelling and grammatical mistakes that you have made here in your other work? If you do, one can understand why people would be skeptical of considering you a writer. This, of course, in no way OKs your teacher's behavior.


I think that there is much you are not saying. I'm suspecting that you were a confrontational not-nice person with a long history of being antagonistic toward your teachers. (Note: I'm not saying you were, as I don't know. I just have a lot of difficulty imagining that this situation could come up unless you had a provocative history.) I'm positive that your teacher and your principal should be fired for this, regardless.

[Quincunx]

Fiery Diamond, et alia: Yes, it's possible the teacher was enough of a. . .you know, my ability to describe this behavior in polite company has gone down, the more my vocabulary has expanded. . .to have homed in on Froogleyboy as a good target for power plays in the classroom regardless of anything he might have done. . .

Froogleyboy: . . .However, if you can't even provide enough details to justify yourself to random nosy people on a message board, you are not going to win any concessions from the school. It may even be because you're too disorganized to support your case that she chose you as someone who couldn't effectively strike back. Better find that second supporter, fast. (Initially I also thought, "Maybe she's provoking him into a put-up-or-shut-up situation about novel-writing, where he will prove himself or burn out trying", but if she's trying to turn the rest of the class against you by threatening them with your punishment, it's a power play pure and simple.)

[Crimmy]

For bonus points, write it in a language that doesn't share an alphabet with English. Insist she read it. I recommend Chinese or Arabic.

In a different try, do it in Nahuatlaca. Doubt she'll even manage to translate.

[Asta Kask]

In a different try, do it in Nahuatlaca. Doubt she'll even manage to translate.

Does he know Nahuatlaca, or are you proposing he learn it? :smallsmile:

A 300-page dadaist poem may be bizarre enough to garner a pass.

[Crimmy]

Does he know Nahuatlaca, or are you proposing he learn it? :smallsmile:

A 300-page dadaist poem may be bizarre enough to garner a pass.

With a little time, I could translate whatever he wanted into Nahuatlaca.

The dadais poem would be cool, but that would mean he had to gather 50 thousand words. And then mix 'em up.

I suggest you mix 2 of the ideas:
-The graphic erotic novel with pigs.
-Nahuatl, Arabic, or Chinese language.

[Umael]

I suggest you mix 2 of the ideas:
-The graphic erotic novel with pigs.
-Nahuatl, Arabic, or Chinese language.

I can see it now:

"He... took... her... wait a minute! That can't be right!"

[Crimmy]

I can see it now:

"He... took... her... wait a minute! That can't be right!"

"Yej ana inik ichpochyotl"

There ya go, we're on the highway of fame here.

[Flickerdart]

For bonus extra-fun points, alternate languages every chapter, page, paragraph or sentence.

[Froogleyboy]

Okay, You've asked for more detail, here it is.
I am in high school. It's a public school with around 1500, or 2000 people (not just in the high school, the elementary and middle as well)
The first incident:
We were sitting in class and she was explaing some figurative language stuff and my friend Luigi (as we call him) leans over and says "Yo, man, This stuff don't make no sense! If I come over to your place, can you explain it? Your good at this crap, right?"
"Yeah, I'm some what of a writer. I'll help you out"
Then my teacher walks over to us. "You are, Logan?" and she gave me that smirk of hers
"Sure, I guess."
"Would you like to bet on that?"
I wasn't sure what she asking, so I just said "You're on!"

When at went to this office, I asked the secretary "Hey, do you know what Mrs. Jonse is making us do?"
She smiled and said "Well, what is that?"
"She's making me write a friggen book!"
"Oh, that must stink, Justin, but she asked us if it was okay and Daughtery (our V.P.) said she could do it. So I guess you have to do it."

[The Glyphstone]

Did you tell the secretary that this 'book is a pass-fail assignment for you with a minimum page length/word count longer than the largest Harry Potter book, and that you are the only person in the class under this restriction? Those are kind of important details.

[Froogleyboy]

Oh, and we're supposed to read a class novel before the end of the year. Maybe that's how she'll be reading mine

[Umael]

...:smallsigh:

Agreeing to a bet without getting any details.
Keeping to the bet despite the details.
Trusting the word of the secretary instead of going to the source.
Accepting the authority of the source as final instead of going to a higher source (Principal) when obviously wrong.


I highly recommend swallowing your pride and admitting that the situation has blown up beyond anything reasonable. Then take the people involved to task for it.

[Yucca]

Yep, it sounds like she might have left off a few key points when getting it "ok'd" by the VP. Make an appointment with the VP and make sure that he knows the details of exactly what he agreed to.

[RandomNPC]

Yep, it sounds like she might have left off a few key points when getting it "ok'd" by the VP. Make an appointment with the VP and make sure that he knows the details of exactly what he agreed to.

and if the VP is still ok with it, go over his head. not the next week, not tomorrow, go right on over to VPs boss. If need be go to boss persons boss.

[Fiery Diamond]

Thanks for furnishing us with some details.


...:smallsigh:

Agreeing to a bet without getting any details.
Keeping to the bet despite the details.
Trusting the word of the secretary instead of going to the source.
Accepting the authority of the source as final instead of going to a higher source (Principal) when obviously wrong.


I highly recommend swallowing your pride and admitting that the situation has blown up beyond anything reasonable. Then take the people involved to task for it.

I concur. I probably would have asked her "how so?" when she tried to initiate the "bet." Once the "rules of the bet" became known, it becomes clear that this is not something that should be. Do, do, do definitely go above the secretary. I'm not going to harp on "should have"s at this point, but rather say that at this point, things have gotten out of control and you would be well advised to go as high up on the chain of command as you can get to settle this.


Yep, it sounds like she might have left off a few key points when getting it "ok'd" by the VP. Make an appointment with the VP and make sure that he knows the details of exactly what he agreed to.


and if the VP is still ok with it, go over his head. not the next week, not tomorrow, go right on over to VPs boss. If need be go to boss persons boss.

I totally agree with these two posts.

And wow, a public school? That teacher is so out of line on so many levels. She should never be saying things about roleplaying being satanic in a public school. Private school, okay. Public school - that's not allowed.

[2xMachina]

How do you even bet on whether you're a writer?

I bet you're not a writer.

I am. Now pay up.

Where you're proof?

*writes a word* There. I wrote. Thus I'm a writer.

That's not what I meant.

It's a valid definition.

[Crimmy]

How do you even bet on whether you're a writer?

I bet you're not a writer.

I am. Now pay up.

Where you're proof?

*writes a word* There. I wrote. Thus I'm a writer.

That's not what I meant.

It's a valid definition.
This I agree with.

[Yucca]

How do you even bet on whether you're a writer?

I bet you're not a writer.

I am. Now pay up.

Where you're proof?

*writes a word* There. I wrote. Thus I'm a writer.

That's not what I meant.

It's a valid definition.

No it's not. The person who argues semantics is going to be on the losing side of the argument pretty much 100% of the time. Arguing definitions and claiming to be "technically correct" is never a strong position. It would be foolish to take that tack here where there are much more aggressive and stable arguments to make.

someone who is able to write != a writer

[2xMachina]

What IS a writer? Someone who published a book? Or just someone who writes?

Anyway, all I'm saying is that the whole bet is BS and shouldn't be bothered with. There is no stakes, there is no definition, no nothing.

Complain as needed, and don't be bothered that you didn't "win the bet".

[The Valiant Turtle]

I'd say a writer is someone who writes just because they enjoy doing it. A good writer is someone who can make money doing it.

[Froogleyboy]

I'd say a writer is someone who writes just because they enjoy doing it. A good writer is someone who can make money doing it.

yeah, that was my premise when I told my friend I was a writer. I'm wanting the playground to help me become a good writer

[Yucca]

What IS a writer? Someone who published a book? Or just someone who writes?

Anyway, all I'm saying is that the whole bet is BS and shouldn't be bothered with. There is no stakes, there is no definition, no nothing.

Complain as needed, and don't be bothered that you didn't "win the bet".

Right. The wager is blatantly unfair and intentionally punitive on the part of the teacher. If he chose to ignore it and say "fail me because of this, I dare you. But I'm not playing your game" he would actually have a strong position.

Quibbling over the definition of "writer" is weak, and is the wrong direction to take in this situation. No one actually recognizes someone being "technically correct" as being "the winner of the argument" Because when it comes down to it, RAI is much more important to the game than RAW.

[Froogleyboy]

okay, I told the principle (not just the secretary this time) and she said "Well, Logan, since you feel that your being treated unfairly, You won't have to do it." I thanked her and went on my way.

[Ikialev]

"You won't have to do it" is not always a good phrase. Especially if she won't give those words to the teacher.

[The Glyphstone]

Double-check with her that this means you won't fail the class if you refuse the bet. Get it in writing preferably, even if it's in a really friendly manner "Hey, would you help me out by writing that down/signing it so Mrs. Teacher can't still cheat me out of my grade"?

Without that, she can deny you ever talked to her when this comes to arbitration over your 'FAIL'. With it, she's stuck with having to back you againt the teacher.

[Lycan 01]

Always get it in writing, or make sure the results are agreed upon.

I once went to the principle and asked if I could switch classes in the middle of the school year, when it was impossible to do so normally. I didn't even have a good reason for it. I didn't like the people in the class I was in, and I felt they were hindering my learning experience. His response? Well, apparently the fact that I was one of the few students he'd never had any trouble with counted for a lot, which he told me himself as he signed the papers to transfer me to a different class at the end of the day, starting that afternoon. :smallbiggrin:

So yeah, get it in writing, and make sure everyone knows what's going on.

[Froogleyboy]

I got called up to a conference today and they sent a letter home exempting me from the assignment(cuz they had already sent one home about it) so I'm off the hook, but I still wana write it

[Quincunx]

And we've come full circle to the beginning situation again--but that's a good thing, since I was kinda impressed with you being willing to back up what you said by writing a novel--and now with your grade safeguarded with a piece o' paper. Good outcome. More stuff to read, soon! :smallsmile:

[RandomNPC]

and to think, you didn't even need to go over that many heads.

Now don't make the mistake of gloating to the teacher, she'll assign a bunch of writing work that relies on opinion and say she doesn't think you put enough thought into it, failing you on the grounds that she doesn't think you have an opinion.

However I've still heard worse from teachers.

[Platinum_Mongoose]

Nonsense. Tess of the D'urbervilles makes those choices pale in comparison.

I know the thread isn't about this exactly, but golentan makes such a good point here that I had to bring it up again.

Froogleyboy, is your teacher at all interested in... y'know... making sure you learn?

[Maximum Zersk]

I got called up to a conference today and they sent a letter home exempting me from the assignment(cuz they had already sent one home about it) so I'm off the hook, but I still wana write it

Then write it. Nothing is stopping you, limiting you, or making it harder for you in any way. Go wild on it. :smallsmile:

and to think, you didn't even need to go over that many heads.

Now don't make the mistake of gloating to the teacher, she'll assign a bunch of writing work that relies on opinion and say she doesn't think you put enough thought into it, failing you on the grounds that she doesn't think you have an opinion.

However I've still heard worse from teachers.

I agree, gloating will only make it worse.

Man, I remember my social studies teacher/english teacher now. :smallsigh:

Hey, if you write it, mind posting it up once you've made some progress?

[Froogleyboy]

Me and MethosHazara are working on it ;)

[THAC0]

Me and MethosHazara are working on it ;)

Since this is a thread about you becoming a better writer, I simply cannot resist.

"MethosHazara and I" are working on it.

I fixed it for you.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

Indeed, a thorough knowledge of grammar is fundamental to becoming any kind of writer.

[Twas Brillig]

Back around page three when this thread was still talking about mental institutions reminded me of something my grandmother does with the students that she sometimes had:

She takes them round all of the patients and let everyone get to know everyone else and then she sits down with them and says "Now which one stabbed out his fathers eyes with a screwdriver?"

My brothers reaction to hearing this was "Thats terrible!"
My reaction was always "Thats freaking hilarious!"

Now a few monthes later
It got better when I had to pop into the institution one day to pick up my meds to help with fixing her computer (oh yes, thats much more believable)
While I'm in the middle of this one of the patients came up and started a conversation.
As soon as he found out that I was the grandson of his favourite person he asked "has she asked you the screwdriver question yet? Because when she does you've got to tell her that it was me!"

Just FYI - she has retired now but was an occupational threapist helping to reintegrate patients back into the community.

so maybe theres something you can use and maybe not but I've always been tickled by the story:smallsmile:

[Umael]

Indeed, a thorough knowledge of grammar is fundamental to becoming any kind of writer.

True. Including when to know when to break the rules.

"Who broke the rules of grammar?"
"It was I."

*sits back and waits*

(Twas Brillig: My response - "Did the father deserve it?" Also, good story.)