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Private-Prinny
2010-03-13, 12:49 AM
I was thinking about making a magic-centered campaign world, and I want to revamp the system. It seems very, very risky, but I think it will pay off, so I need either tips or a warning before it's too late.

First off, I want to do away with preparation spellcasters. Don't get me wrong, I love wizards, but if magic is going to be the driving force in the campaign, then innate magic seems like a much better choice for plot purposes. I'll probably end up using the spontaneous Cleric and Druid variants from Unearthed Arcana, which would be easy enough, but I don't want to do away with wizards completely. Any suggestions on homebrewing a spontaneous wizard without making it a sorcerer clone?

I also plan to be very, very flexible with spell effects. If magic is something possessed by everyone, then there should be ways to apply it in unforeseen ways. Raw magical power should not replace the ability to think critically. If rotating the area of a Reverse Gravity spell to pin a high reflex enemy to the ground or cushion someone elses fall from far away, for example, would be perfectly allowable.

Keep in mind that the enemies will be playing by the same rules, and any desired effect that's not listed in a spell description is subject to DM approval, so I should have some sort of leash on just how far the players can push me. I can just make the enemies more creative.

I know this seems like a huge request, but I have plenty of time to work the kinks out. Please try to avoid saying this is a stupid idea unless you can back it up.

Zexion
2010-03-13, 12:52 AM
"Subject to DM approval" is not a valid way to balance any class. It might seem like I'm being a critic, but trust me, it is important to make things as balanced as you can. Using a Fireball to blow apart the BBEG's skull is not balanced.

Private-Prinny
2010-03-13, 01:05 AM
"Subject to DM approval" is not a valid way to balance any class. It might seem like I'm being a critic, but trust me, it is important to make things as balanced as you can. Using a Fireball to blow apart the BBEG's skull is not balanced.

And neither is the BBEG doing the same thing to the players. I guess I should've been more specific. I was thinking something along the lines of a very limited form of the Recaster capstone ability to apply to explicitly damaging spells. Greater flexibility would go to more mundane things, like Tenser's Floating Disc. It might seem like I don't appreciate the input, but I can really use as much as I can get.

Zexion
2010-03-13, 01:09 AM
What about using a remotely triggered Gate spell to summon your worst enemy into a Level 40+ Maze thing... actually, that's legal in the normal version... that just gave me an idea!

Geiger Counter
2010-03-13, 01:16 AM
You basically want someone with the spell diversity of wizards without daily preparation. You could just use spontaneous casters and say they can pick new spells whenever they are in a safe area for at least a few days instead of just when they gain a new level.

Private-Prinny
2010-03-13, 01:19 AM
You basically want someone with the spell diversity of wizards without daily preparation. You could just use spontaneous casters and say they can pick new spells whenever they are in a safe area for at least a few days instead of just when they gain a new level.

I can see 2 problems with that.

1. It removes the aspect of personalization of the spell list, which is what I don't want.

2. If I did that, all other arcane casters would be redundant.

Forever Curious
2010-03-13, 01:25 AM
I'd take a look at the Recharge Magic System (Unearthed Arcana). Seems to fit what you're going for.

You know, you COULD just do away with wizards if you want 100% spontaneous magic. There are a good number of "specialized casters" (Dread Necromancer, Beguiler, etc.). In addition, Artificers (Ebberon Campaign setting) could replace the wizard fluff-wise: tackling magic analytically through study.

I honestly think a "spontaneous wizard" is a superfluous, not to be overly critical.

Zexion
2010-03-13, 01:39 AM
Yeah. Wizards aren't really built to be spontaneous casters.

Private-Prinny
2010-03-13, 01:45 AM
I'd take a look at the Recharge Magic System (Unearthed Arcana). Seems to fit what you're going for.

You know, you COULD just do away with wizards if you want 100% spontaneous magic. There are a good number of "specialized casters" (Dread Necromancer, Beguiler, etc.). In addition, Artificers (Ebberon Campaign setting) could replace the wizard fluff-wise: tackling magic analytically through study.

I honestly think a "spontaneous wizard" is a superfluous, not to be overly critical.

That actually seems like a good variant. I might tweak it a bit, but it does fit the flavor.

I'm actually not all that familiar with Artificers. Is there an SRD you could direct me to?

And critical is good at this point. This isn't for fine tuning, just a general plan. The fine tuning comes later. In case it's not already obvious, I'm new to homebrewing.

Lyndworm
2010-03-13, 03:42 AM
I'm actually not all that familiar with Artificers. Is there an SRD you could direct me to?
Nope, sorry. The Artificer wasn't released under the OGL, so it's thievery to say too much about it. As such, there is no Artificer in any SRD.

On a more broadly related note, you could have Wizards prepare spells known from a spell book, kind of like Spirit Shamans.

Altair_the_Vexed
2010-03-13, 03:51 AM
Have a look at Monte Cooke's World of Darkness d20 ("MCWoD") version of the Mage.
In that system, spells are constructed by the caster from a set of components, each of which has a cost. For example, to make Fireball, you'd spend points to set the range, set the damage, and increase the save DC. You can spend more points to make the spell silent, quickened (all casting defaults to full round actions), and so on - or reduce the cost by taking longer to cast it, using sympathetic foci of your targets, and so on.

It is VERY flexible.

You will need to add some restrictions to the class as written - also you'll need to invent levels 1 to 3, as all classes / character types in MCWoD start at what is effectively level 4 compared to other d20 systems.

MCWoD isn't OGL either, so you'll have to invest in the book, or find someone who already has.

Pronounceable
2010-03-13, 04:38 AM
"Subject to DM approval" is not a valid way to balance any class.

This is not correct. DM is the ultimate arbiter on the table, everything is subject to DM approval already. Sure if you were to publish such rules to masses, they'd need a whole lot Q&A to to smooth it out. But so long as you're content with your rules, the only hard limit on DM approval is fun.

As for ontopickiness, no amount of ruling will fully cover what you want. So don't bother, put in a Magic skill and let them roll vs whatever DC you think is appropriate to succeed. Mayhaps coupled with some sort of mana points or magic cooldown time based on DC they rolled against.

Private-Prinny
2010-03-13, 01:08 PM
Thanks for the help. I should be able to come up with a workable system now.:smallsmile:

Zexion
2010-03-13, 01:40 PM
This is not correct. DM is the ultimate arbiter on the table, everything is subject to DM approval already. Sure if you were to publish such rules to masses, they'd need a whole lot Q&A to to smooth it out. But so long as you're content with your rules, the only hard limit on DM approval is fun.

As for ontopickiness, no amount of ruling will fully cover what you want. So don't bother, put in a Magic skill and let them roll vs whatever DC you think is appropriate to succeed. Mayhaps coupled with some sort of mana points or magic cooldown time based on DC they rolled against.

However, this is a rather powerful ability. Think about it. Would it be "balanced" if an 19th level character could cast Miracle at will? No. Would it be balanced if the 19th level character needed DM approval to use the ability? Still no.

Pronounceable
2010-03-13, 02:06 PM
Would it be "balanced" if an 19th level character could cast Miracle at will?
Depends on the game. Besides what is this Miracle you speak of? There'd only be a character trying to X using his magic, and DM determining if it succeeds or not.


Would it be balanced if the 19th level character needed DM approval to use the ability?
That 19th level character already needs DM approval. It might be called the will of gods, but it's still the DM that's the ultimate authority. Tomfoolery aside, balance is a lie. There's only fun.