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Geiger Counter
2010-03-13, 09:09 AM
What do they look like?

Radiun
2010-03-13, 09:15 AM
What do they look like?

...
They're a class, so... whatever race you chose to play as with whatever equipment you chose to wear.

Geiger Counter
2010-03-13, 09:18 AM
Someone made an avatar request for one, a factotum is not in the dungeonscape art gallery. What would you expect someone of that class to be wearing?

Moglorosh
2010-03-13, 09:18 AM
They look like Indiana Jones.

subject42
2010-03-13, 09:19 AM
They look like somebody liberally sprinkled the MiC onto a wizard that mistakenly picked up a sword.

Ernir
2010-03-13, 09:25 AM
Someone made an avatar request for one, a factotum is not in the dungeonscape art gallery. What would you expect someone of that class to be wearing?

Medium armor, a martial weapon, and most importantly, a billion trinkets, each of which is "just in case". Like a tool to help with every skill, and a holy symbol for every god in the setting.

Frosty
2010-03-13, 11:33 AM
And books...LOTS of books...

AmberVael
2010-03-13, 11:36 AM
Essentially, the Factotum is the jack of all trades type. They can cast spells, do a bit of deific magic and healing, find traps, fight, and know everything.

They rely heavily on their intelligence and skill to get through things.

Frankly, yeah- take cues from Indiana Jones. Or heck, maybe Batman (utility beltl!) But the idea is, Factotum's are well rounded, and capable of taking up every role that might be needed.

Starbuck_II
2010-03-13, 11:40 AM
Essentially, the Factotum is the jack of all trades type. They can cast spells, do a bit of deific magic and healing, find traps, fight, and know everything.

They rely heavily on their intelligence and skill to get through things.

Frankly, yeah- take cues from Indiana Jones. Or heck, maybe Batman (utility beltl!) But the idea is, Factotum's are well rounded, and capable of taking up every role that might be needed.

No Bard is Jack of all trades, master of none.
Factotum is the king of all trades, master of some.

The wording matters.:smallbiggrin:

Radiun
2010-03-13, 11:40 AM
Belt of Hidden Pouches [AKA Bat-Belt]:

Pouch 1: Silver holy Symbol:
Pouch 2: Flint-n-Steel and Chalk
Pouch 3: Metal Tongs
Pouch 4: Small Steel Mirror and Hammer
Pouch 5: Small Magnets
Pouch 6: Garlic & Sausages
Pouch 7: Holy Water x3
Pouch 8: TangleFoot Bag
Pouch 9: Insectbane Candle x50
Pouch 10: Marbles

Hidden Pouches
Pouch 1: Folding Saw
Pouch 2: 5 Forger’s Papers
Pouch 3: Collapsible Grappling Hook
Pouch 4: Sheet of Paper x10 and ink
Pouch 5: Quall’s Feather Token(Tree)
Pouch 6: Everlasting Rations, Everfull Mug
Pouch 7: Acid x3
Pouch 8: Oil of Taggit x5
Pouch 9: Amazing Lock & Key
Pouch 10: Masterwork Manacles
Pouch 11: Bolt Cutters
Pouch 12: Rust-Monster Wand
Pouch 13: Liquid Sunlight
Pouch 14: Pulley
Pouch 15: Daern’s Instant Tent
Pouch 16: Rope of Stone
Pouch 17: Spool of Endless Rope
Pouch 18:
Pouch 19:
Pouch 20:

Backpack
Waterskin
Collapsible 10ft Pole
Hammer
Shovel
Magic Bedroll



Well, you get the idea

Miscellaneous gear and trinkets a plenty, spilling out of his pockets even.

2xMachina
2010-03-13, 11:41 AM
I'm pretty sure there is a picture of a factotum in Dungeonscape.

Reading, with the other hand on a sword. Has ropes, backpack, pick, and lots of pockets

Kushōsaku
2010-03-13, 11:47 AM
This is what google thinks :smallwink:


http://wizards.com/dnd/images/spellcomp_gallery/92264.jpg
http://www.dfwd20.com/photopost/data/522/medium/scoundrel.jpg
http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/images/conceptart/CA0807_01.jpg

InkEyes
2010-03-13, 11:58 AM
Someone made an avatar request for one, a factotum is not in the dungeonscape art gallery. What would you expect someone of that class to be wearing?

Why not ask that person for what they think a Factotum looks like?

For reference though, here's the picture of the factotum from its entry in Dungeonscape:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/SecretFinder767/Factotum.png

Starbuck_II
2010-03-13, 12:03 PM
I got these by googling images on Factotum:
http://theshamelist.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/factotum_ver4.jpg
http://www.impawards.com/2005/posters/factotum.jpg
http://sob.apotheon.org/img/hilevel/hp.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91472.jpg

DragoonWraith
2010-03-13, 12:17 PM
Yeah, going to go with Indiana Jones. Indiana Jones is a factotum.

InkEyes
2010-03-13, 12:31 PM
http://wizards.com/dnd/images/spellcomp_gallery/92264.jpg
This one's a wizard firing off rays from the Spell Compendium.


http://www.dfwd20.com/photopost/data/522/medium/scoundrel.jpg
This is the cover art to Complete Scoundrel. It was published before Dungeonscape, so it's probably not a factotum. I always assumed it was a bard/arcane trickster/beguiler.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91472.jpg
That's straight from the Magic of Eberron art gallery (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20051010a&page=2). It's apparently a Quori Mindhunter.

Not that any of these wouldn't work as a factotum, it's such a flexible class that it could really look like anything.

Edit:

I got these by googling images on Factotum:
http://theshamelist.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/factotum_ver4.jpg
http://www.impawards.com/2005/posters/factotum.jpg
http://sob.apotheon.org/img/hilevel/hp.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91472.jpg

Your second link is verboten.

Slayn82
2010-03-13, 01:05 PM
Well, wikipedia gave me this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factotum_%28arts_organisation%29)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/23/Factotum-logo.jpg

Personally, when i think of a Factotum, im going with The Unstoppable Higgs (http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/The_Unstoppable_Higgs) of Girl Genius, specially starting here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070402) and here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20100217).

Talbot
2010-03-13, 01:38 PM
On a peripheral note, should Brains over Brawn apply to Grapple checks? Or does that not count as a "Strength Based Check"?

Slayn82
2010-03-13, 01:44 PM
Yes, Brain over Brawl counts for grapple checks.

Tinydwarfman
2010-03-13, 01:47 PM
On a peripheral note, should Brains over Brawn apply to Grapple checks? Or does that not count as a "Strength Based Check"?

I think a grapple check is practically the definition of a strength based check, but what about attack rolls? When they have weapon finesse?

2xMachina
2010-03-13, 01:51 PM
I don't think so. That would be very powerful...

Int to Damage. Int to Att roll.

Slayn82
2010-03-13, 02:46 PM
Thats covered by cunning insight, and requires de use of inspiration points

Gametime
2010-03-13, 03:06 PM
Yes, Brain over Brawl counts for grapple checks.

No, it doesn't. Brains over Brawn applies to Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks, and Strength and Dexterity checks.


Sometimes a character tries to do something to which no specific skill really applies. In these cases, you make an ability check. An ability check is a roll of 1d20 plus the appropriate ability modifier. Essentially, you’re making an untrained skill check.

A grapple check (and an attack roll, and so on) is not an ability check; you roll 1d20 plus the appropriate ability modifier plus your base attack bonus. Rolling for initiative, or making a trip attempt, are ability checks, and are affected accordingly.

Slayn82
2010-03-13, 03:16 PM
True that, my mistake.

Talbot
2010-03-13, 04:02 PM
No, it doesn't. Brains over Brawn applies to Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks, and Strength and Dexterity checks.



A grapple check (and an attack roll, and so on) is not an ability check; you roll 1d20 plus the appropriate ability modifier plus your base attack bonus. Rolling for initiative, or making a trip attempt, are ability checks, and are affected accordingly.

Hmm... in the SRD, though, don't you think the word "skill" is meant to refer to skills (as in, skills you use skillpoints in)? Grappling, insofar as the D&D definition of skills go, is not a skill, and therefore (by the definition you quoted) would be an ability check. Attack rolls and such explicitly are rolls, not checks, so they're a different matter entirely.

Optimator
2010-03-13, 04:24 PM
A rogue avatar will look a lot like a Factotum avatar.

Gametime
2010-03-13, 04:28 PM
Hmm... in the SRD, though, don't you think the word "skill" is meant to refer to skills (as in, skills you use skillpoints in)? Grappling, insofar as the D&D definition of skills go, is not a skill, and therefore (by the definition you quoted) would be an ability check. Attack rolls and such explicitly are rolls, not checks, so they're a different matter entirely.

Just because something isn't a skill doesn't make it an ability check. Grappling is a modified ability check; you aren't just adding your ability (plus other relevant modifiers), you're adding your ability plus your base attack bonus (plus other relevant modifiers).

For that matter, the SRD compares grappling to attack rolls rather than skill or ability checks.


A grapple check is like a melee attack roll.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-03-13, 04:32 PM
http://www.dfwd20.com/photopost/data/522/medium/scoundrel.jpg
This is the cover art to Complete Scoundrel. It was published before Dungeonscape, so it's probably not a factotum. I always assumed it was a bard/arcane trickster/beguiler.


Isn't that Gimble the gnome bard fromth PHB?

Talbot
2010-03-13, 04:52 PM
Just because something isn't a skill doesn't make it an ability check. Grappling is a modified ability check; you aren't just adding your ability (plus other relevant modifiers), you're adding your ability plus your base attack bonus (plus other relevant modifiers).


Dude, you explicitly quoted a passage from the SRD that says exactly that when it isn't a skill check, it's an ability check:


Originally Posted by SRD
Sometimes a character tries to do something to which no specific skill really applies. In these cases, you make an ability check.

Gametime
2010-03-13, 06:34 PM
Dude, you explicitly quoted a passage from the SRD that says exactly that when it isn't a skill check, it's an ability check:

That passage is in reference to skills. Sometimes you do something like a skill that isn't a skill, and ability checks are how you deal with that.

Grappling isn't like a skill, and has it's own rules governing what you do. Ability checks are not involved. For that matter, as I noted, the SRD compares grappling to attacking, which is also not a skill and not an ability check.

D&D isn't divided into SKILLS and NOT SKILLS, even if my out-of-context one-liners make it seem that way.

The Rules Compendium even explicitly calls rolling for initiative a dexterity check, because all you do is roll 1d20 and add dexterity. It calls grappling "like an attack roll," because things other than ability scores are involved.

Ormur
2010-03-13, 07:45 PM
A friend of mine suggested that the fight scene in the new Sherlock Holmes film where he describes what he'll do to the wrestler beforehand in minute detail would be how a factotum would fight, adding his int. to every check.

Draz74
2010-03-13, 08:31 PM
A friend of mine suggested that the fight scene in the new Sherlock Holmes film where he describes what he'll do to the wrestler beforehand in minute detail would be how a factotum would fight, adding his int. to every check.

Oh absolutely. That crossed my mind several times just while I watched the movie (and I've only seen it once). The new portrayal of Sherlock is the best example yet of a non-D&D character who should be represented as a Factotum.

Granted, you'd have to homebrew a Factotum variant that gets ToB maneuvers instead of spell-like abilities.

Starbuck_II
2010-03-13, 08:36 PM
Oh absolutely. That crossed my mind several times just while I watched the movie (and I've only seen it once). The new portrayal of Sherlock is the best example yet of a non-D&D character who should be represented as a Factotum.

Granted, you'd have to homebrew a Factotum variant that gets ToB maneuvers instead of spell-like abilities.

Heroics to get Martial Study to get a maneuver? Remember Heroics grants any Fighter bonus feat. Martial Study is a Fighter bonus Feat.

Gametime
2010-03-13, 09:25 PM
Oh absolutely. That crossed my mind several times just while I watched the movie (and I've only seen it once). The new portrayal of Sherlock is the best example yet of a non-D&D character who should be represented as a Factotum.

Granted, you'd have to homebrew a Factotum variant that gets ToB maneuvers instead of spell-like abilities.

Just replacing "sorcerer/wizard spells" with "maneuvers" would probably work fine. Maybe even stipulate that factotums don't need to meet the discipline requirements, to compensate for the fact that you lose massive amounts of versatility going from spells to maneuvers.

Tackyhillbillu
2010-03-13, 09:26 PM
Oh absolutely. That crossed my mind several times just while I watched the movie (and I've only seen it once). The new portrayal of Sherlock is the best example yet of a non-D&D character who should be represented as a Factotum.

Granted, you'd have to homebrew a Factotum variant that gets ToB maneuvers instead of spell-like abilities.

I still have to go with Indy.

InkEyes
2010-03-13, 10:47 PM
Isn't that Gimble the gnome bard fromth PHB?

Now that you mention it, it was probably meant to be (link) (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph35_gallery/PHB35_PG27_WEB.jpg), but I'll be damned if it doesn't look more like a half-elf woman knocked him out and stole his jacket.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-03-13, 10:57 PM
It's a pretty good bet that that's Gimble. It looks a lot like him, and they use him as the "scoundrel" in the books intro.

Lycanthromancer
2010-03-13, 11:08 PM
Now that you mention it, it was probably meant to be (link) (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph35_gallery/PHB35_PG27_WEB.jpg), but I'll be damned if it doesn't look more like a half-elf woman knocked him out and stole his jacket."She" has hair on her chin.

And "she" is too hawt to be that pseudonatural half-troglodyte/half-haggis/troll abomination Mialee.

I think it IS Gimble!

Sexy bard!

Draz74
2010-03-13, 11:22 PM
Heroics to get Martial Study to get a maneuver? Remember Heroics grants any Fighter bonus feat. Martial Study is a Fighter bonus Feat.

Oh, I'm well aware. :smallbiggrin:


I still have to go with Indy.

Indy's a good example too. But he didn't make it quite as obvious "OK, I'm adding INT to damage using Cunning Insight now ... OK, I'm adding INT to my Reflex save using Cunning Insight now ..." (With the movie actually going slow-motion to emphasize the effect, no less!)

Devils_Advocate
2010-03-14, 04:33 AM
While a typical factotum will have a lot of equipment, it's infeasible to depict a single person carrying all of that. Just draw a backpack, lots of pockets and pouches, and everything that any adventurer would visibly wear of carry -- a sword (probably a rapier), a bow and quiver of arrows, a holy symbol, maybe a wand, a hat, goggles, an amulet, (light) armor, a belt, a cloak, gloves, bracers, boots, and so on.


Medium armor
You mean "light armor", right? Since the class doesn't give medium armor proficiency, and it's a skill monkey class, and Improved Cunning Defense doesn't work in medium armor.