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Fizzban
2010-03-13, 03:56 PM
I'm looking to make an assassin gish type character and was thinking about using the beguiler and swordsage then head into jade phoenix mage or swiftblade. Does anyone have any ideas on combining beguiler and swordsage? All books are allowed and I'm open to any PrC ideas.

Thanks

Fizz

Dusk Eclipse
2010-03-13, 04:07 PM
If you are up to it, there is a hombrewed class here on the Homebrew board that is a gish class specifically for beguiler/sworsage, let me se if I can find it.

If not then I suggest Jade Phoenix mage since swiftblade while powerful and fun doesn't give manouver advancement

Longcat
2010-03-13, 04:09 PM
You could combine it with Jade Phoenix Mage, and add in Shadowcraft Mage.

Pluto
2010-03-13, 04:14 PM
Does anyone have any ideas on combining beguiler and swordsage?

Beguiler is kind of a terrible casting class for gishes. Its spells are much too offensive to jibe well with the "buff and smash" approach and Overwhelm is their only spell that can be channeled without Spellsword levels IIRC.

This means you'll probably do well to try to build this gish despite the spell list:
With a good Wisdom score, you can use Arcane Disciple (CAr) for a buff-heavy domain. Hero (OA) is especially good.
Arcane Strike (CWar) can help to integrate spellcasting into melee combat [the built-in JPM version works too, but its Swift Action activation kind of sucks.]

Carmendine Monk (CoV) and Kung Fu Genius (Dragon compendium) both tune Monk abilities to Intelligence If you can get that to transfer to the Swordsage's AC bonus and Shadow Hand/Desert Wind DC's, they can be very good feat selections.

I'm a big fan of Unseen Seer (CMage) in sneaky gish builds for its skills and bonus damage. The only problem is that it's a bit squishy and that the Beguiler spell list doesn't put sneak attack to very good use. I'd try to work some levels of it into the build.

edit:

\/
+1.
That class is deals with every problem I see with a Beguiler gish.
A bit on the strong side though.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-03-13, 04:20 PM
Here is Krimm Blackleaf Shrouded Ambusher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90835) prestige class, it is a gish especially made for swordsages and beguilers

Fizzban
2010-03-13, 07:35 PM
I really like the Shrouded Ambusher after going over it. What's the best build for it? Beguiler 4 SwordSage 1 seems to be the quickest way to qualify for it. Any advice on the build say at 10, 15, and 20?

Fizz

Dusk Eclipse
2010-03-13, 07:53 PM
That depends on which part Spellcasting or initiating will be the focus.

if you prefer casting then beguiler 3/swordsage 2 is better (by my reading you need a level 2 stance, hence the second level of swordsage)

the sublime way would be beguiler 1/swordsage X using precocious apprentice. and after you finish shrouded ambusher, jade phoenix mage seems the best option.

Fizzban
2010-03-13, 08:12 PM
Doesn't half your other class level add to your initiator level? So beguiler 4 swordsage 1 would be initaitor level 3 so I can get 2nd level maneuvers right? All be it I wouldn't have very many.

Fizz

Dusk Eclipse
2010-03-13, 08:15 PM
Doesn't half your other class level add to your initiator level? So beguiler 4 swordsage 1 would be initaitor level 3 so I can get 2nd level maneuvers right? All be it I wouldn't have very many.

Fizz

Yes you would have IL of 3, but since by RAW you get a first level stance on your first level of swordsage you need two levels and actually swordsages got a lot of manoubers

The Dark Fiddler
2010-03-13, 08:29 PM
level 2 stance

Doesn't exist. For whatever reason, there are NO level 2 stances, unless I missed something.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-03-14, 11:26 AM
Doesn't exist. For whatever reason, there are NO level 2 stances, unless I missed something.

....OH right!, the stances only come at odd level. then I believe with just one level of swordsage you can qualify for shrouded ambusher

Eldariel
2010-03-14, 11:31 AM
Doesn't exist. For whatever reason, there are NO level 2 stances, unless I missed something.

I assume it's because they tried to tempo stances with the rate at which the classes learn new ones...and then messed up with most of them. The tables only fit if you multiclass a bit suggesting there's something a bit messed up in there.