Arena Exhibition: 3v3 Multi-Level Madness!

[hustlertwo]

Map:
http://www.abpm.com.mx/scorer/4v4map.gif

Fighters:

Psionic Dog - Dense (http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=5065)
Sanity702 - Ka-Ugh (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=185948)
SPARTA Cuss - The Fallen One (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=191142)

vs.

Train (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=133308) - hustlertwo
Oro (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=142599) - Scorer
Wildgeist (http://pifro.com/pro/view.php?id=4728) - Wildgeist

Rules: Kill 'em all!

[TheFallenOne]

First one in gets to pick colors :smalltongue:

Sparta Cuss color-coded for YOUR convenience Initiative [roll0]

edit: A Spartan warrior against... The Barbarian Horde. Seriously? 3 barbarians with a greatsword each, what are the chances

[hustlertwo]

I've got 2,200 gp to play with, here's the crap I'll get initially.

-400 for heavy warhorse
-100 for studded leather barding (so his AC will be 17)
-1,250 for +1 chain shirt (so my AC will be 18, minus any shield I might wear or potion I might drink)
-300something for a masterwork lance
+175 for selling masterwork chain shirt
-50 for 1 tanglefoot bags
-50 for shield of faith
-60 for 3 Alchemist's Fires
-100 for 1 tanglepatch

That'll probably be it. Just wanting to try out mounted fighting before I commit to buying the horse.

Initiative: [roll0]

Oh, and color will be this, since I'm used to it from Second Draconic.

And you're right, it did end up being three barbarians. And no casters to be found. A bit monochromatic, but at least the focus of each barbarian is different.

[Wildgeist]

Wildgeist Reporting in!!!

Rolling Innitiative [roll0]

No Final Purchases

Exactly in which of the four spots is our team and the other team starting???

Good Luck everyone!!! :smallbiggrin::smallwink:

[hustlertwo]

Ah, you're right, I forgot this was repurposed as a 2v2 map. Scorer, can you sub in the 4v4 version you originally had?

[Psionic Dog]

Hmm, eveyone has only fighter or barbarian levels. Interesting.

[roll0]

Total Purchases (spoilered for space)
Selling breastplate, buying +1 breastplate: 1250 gp net
ML 2 Psionic Tatoo Prescience Offensive, 100 gp
CL 2 Potion Shield of Faith, 100 gp
Psionic Tatoo of Precognition: 50 gp
2x each Tangle Patch, Tangle Foot, Alchemist Fire: 340 gp

2x Cure Light Wound potions, 100 gp
Psionic tatoo of Precognition, 50 gp
greased shirt (masterwork escape artist tool). 50 gp


I guess this will be Team South (Dense, Sparta, Ka-Ugh)
Vs Team North (Train, Oro, Wildgeist)



Red Team Huddle
Ka-Ugh: I see you got a potion of Enlarge Person. Good. With the size bonus that gives to grapple you should be able to lock down anyone you can catch. I'd suggest taking out Oro first.

Sparta, try to harpoon Train's horse if you can. Otherwise, consider bringing a potion of Shield of Faith for the extra AC and stick close to Ka-Ugh.

Dense has 2,000 gp to burn on ... something. I'm thinking a +1 breastplate and a handful of Bane bolts use against Wildgest, Oro, or even Train's horse. I'm open to suggestions.

Speaking of horses, those large animals are going to be of limited mobility use with this many players and the existing chock points at least until walls start to get knocked down. Still, don't forget the WarHorses are CR2 creatures with nasty hoof attacks on their own. Since the walls shatter when broken be careful where you move and end.


I do have one crazy bold, but hideously expensive idea...
If Dense sells everything he owns he can buy a Hippogrif flying mount. Only problem is selling everything includes selling his weapons so someone would have to buy Dense a replacement ranged weapon.

So is this last a waste of money or a super win strategy?

[TheFallenOne]

Red Team Assemble!

Yeah, targetting his horse was my thought too to reduce his mobility. Though I should switch to a new target once I get a hit, they have no way to remove the harpoons without taking extra damage.
I guess I won't need ropes for the harpoons, I don't want them to get close to me after all. Each of them has a good chance to oneshot me despite my DR, though they'll have trouble hitting. With Shield of Faith and Law Devotion my AC will be 27.
I agree that Kaugh and I should stay together to discourage them from making a move on my short-range fighter.

I'd appreciate if you could invest 50 GP in Repair Light Damage so you two have a way to bring me back to my feet if they knock me into the negatives. Normal healing magic has only half effect on Warforged.

Regarding the hippogriff... Well, I guess it would be effective, though it would be a One Trick Pony Griffon and I think a good old-fashioned brawl without invisibility, flying and similar would be more enjoyable.

Tanglepatches would be a sound investment since all of them are meleers(though Oro is an unusual mix with both close combat and archery feats

[Wizibirb]

Red Team Death only


I have a +5 composite longbow I could sell for something if you think that would help (seeing as how your strength mod is most defiantly not +5) so the griffin would be hilarious to actually see.

I will indeed go after Oro, however where will we start? As I want to avoid having to take any extra hits, that way I can at least attempt to grapple with another person.

That brings up my next question when should I drink the potion? as you say I can not cross the 5 ft gaps if I drink the potion, and not sure I want to be standing right their if they start shattering walls.


Rolling for initiative
[roll0]

Ka-ugh like this color as it may remind his opponents that he is not wearing pants.... :smallamused:

Why yes I did take craft nasty image as my feat last level why do you ask?

Edit: It is interesting that we are all fighter/barbarians.... This should prove to be an interesting match.

[Psionic Dog]

Ok, found the map.

Da' Map
http://www.abpm.com.mx/scorer/4v4map.gif


Team Red
A hippogriff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hippogriff.htm) flying above the crowd dropping alchemist fire and arrows would be hilarious, if less sporting. (A true griffin would cost too much to get) I'm also concerned that the effort would cripple our team financially.

For example, by not buying the mount Dense could get a dozen Bane Bolts, and Ka-Ugh could keep a ranged attack strong enough to shatter the glass panes with one hit. True ranged attacks only do half damage to objects, but 2d6+5 can easily do the 8 damage needed to break one.

As far as drinking, do it at the start. It looks like you got the CL 5 version of Enlarge Person, and with a 5 minute duration it should last the whole game.

As for large creatures crossing 5-ft gaps, they still can: they just have to squeeze. The danger being it makes us more vulnerable to slashing breaking glass panes since being larger makes it more likely to end adjacent to one. For that matter we may want to start preemptively shattering glass panes whenever safe since they may be of greater danger to us than our foes.

[hustlertwo]

Blue Team

They think they're so great with all their spoiler talk? Well, we can outspoiler them any day!

So.....I'm actually a bit more concerned about their level 1 than the level 2. Ka-Ugh's tough, but doesn't have move enough to be a threat with that low AC of his. A charge from me and my friend Flicka here would stand a good chance of rending his buttocks, between the 2d8+4 damage from the lance and the horse's own strikes (assuming we both get to attack on a charge, never done mounted fighting before so I'm a tad uncertain). The Warforged, though, is like a more versatile version of Golem, as I'm sure you also noticed, Scorer. None of us really has the ranged attack modifier to take him down from afar, given his AC. So, battle plans? Suggestions? As far as Dense goes, we either focus on him exclusively first, or save him for last. With Mounted Combat and his predilection for using the horse as cover, it's near-impossible for him to be killed by anything less than a concentrated attack from all three of us. Right now my tentative suggestion is that we eliminate Ka-Ugh first before he can get within range of his death hug, then maybe toss some Alchemist's Fires or Tanglefoot Bags to soften up Sparta for a charge, and then our survivors focus on Dense. If all three of us are alive, we kill his horse first, without it he's almost immobile. If two or just one, try to kill him and ignore the horse due to Mounted Combat.

[Wildgeist]

Blue Team

I think your tactic is the best we can do, Specially the parto of concentrating the three of us in an opponent at a time. If Scorer don't say anything otherwise, I go with you plan!!! And lets kick some Buttocks!!!!

[Wizibirb]

Red Team

I guess you have a point their, I think it would be funny if I started pegging them with arrows considering what my specialty is. I guess the next question is do we wait for them to come to us, or for me/us to go to them?

and wouldn't half damange of a d8 be a d4?

[hustlertwo]

Blue Team

Does everyone have enough money to at least buy 1 Tanglefoot Bag, 1 Alchemist's Fire, and 1 CLW potion? Those would be the minimum amount of consumables I'd recommend. I'll probably buy a couple of each, as well as a couple Shield of Faith potions. With SoF, my +1 armor, and a buckler, I'll have an AC of 21 even when not in Whirling Frenzy, and 23 when I am. But my WF only lasts a few rounds, so I intend to save it either for when my death is already imminent, or when there's only one of them left. Since after it is over, I'll be fatigued and thus less able to take hits or deal damage as well.

Init order, awaiting Scorer:

Sparta (17)
Dense (14)
Train (10)
Ka-Ugh (8)
Wildgeist (6)

I got some cash left, so probably also buying a couple more Tanglefoot Bags (meaning 2), 2 more Alchemist's Fires, and 1 more Shield of Faith.

[Wizibirb]

buying two potions of Repair light damage(100Gp)

[TheFallenOne]

Whoa, the 4on4 version is actually quite a bit different, dividing the map into only two slices instead of 4. Hustler, could you edit in the new map into the OP?

Red Team Bickering


Sanity: Half damage doesn't affect the actual dice, you roll damage normally and then just divide by two, rounding down.

Well, we're better at ranged combat(with me practically immune to ranged attacks thanks to Block Arrow), so our goal should be to get LoE without giving them a chance to charge us. Tanglepatches are the way to go in my opinion, they work like an Entangle spell, which is a spread. So if we break one glass pane, we can throw the patch through there and catch them in the effect. Even with their high strength this will slow them down, allowing us to isolate one of them

If anybody of you has cash to spare in the end, be so kind to buy a backpack(2GP) with as many Harpoons(15 GP each) in it as you can without forfeiting the chance to get an item more useful to you. Just drop the bag first round, would be a shame if I run out of those wonderful Harpoons and have to start throwing mere javelins :smalltongue:


edit: still Red Team
In case anybody's wondering, Tanglepatches are in Races of Faerun, page 173. 100 GP each, 20 ft range increment, create entangle spell at point of impact. Quite nasty

[Scorer]

Sorry to keep you waiting, day to pay visit to grandma, her birthday, so Wildgeist and me are trapped in her house hehehehehe I sneaked to the PC...

Init
[roll0]

Purchases:

Everything in my sheet stays, except for the scroll, which I swap for a Potion Enlarge Person

Team Blue

Well, I like your strategy, whoever we decide, we should concentrate on, just tell wildgeist and me what to do, and we'll do.

Also, I've got cure light wounds, alchemists and tanglefoots as you requested

[TheFallenOne]

Alright, intiative

Sparta (17)
Dense (14)
Train (10)
Ka-Ugh (8)
Wildgeist (6)
Oro (4)

So, just divide into Red vs Blue or should everyone choose his own color? I think Team Colors should be enough

edit: added colors to Initiative table

[hustlertwo]

Oh, I wondered if you and Wildgeist were related, I remembered you mentioning something about a brother, and noticed he's also from Mexico City (a less than common hometown for people on an English-speaking forum, I suppose). Good team breakdown, then.

And team colors are fine for initiative lists, I think.

We can just do the 2v2/FFA version if you want, still 8 squares to choose from for starting places. Didn't notice the other differences.


Sparta (17)
Dense (14)
Train (10)
Ka-Ugh (8)
Wildgeist (6)
Oro (4)

Ninja'd.

[Scorer]

Any map is ok for Wildgeist and me.

[hustlertwo]

Ah, I see what he means about the divided 4 ways. Let's do the 4v4 version since it doesn't do that.

4v4 version edited in.

[Wizibirb]

Red Team Bickering


Sanity: Half damage doesn't affect the actual dice, you roll damage normally and then just divide by two, rounding down.

Well, we're better at ranged combat(with me practically immune to ranged attacks thanks to Block Arrow), so our goal should be to get LoE without giving them a chance to charge us. Tanglepatches are the way to go in my opinion, they work like an Entangle spell, which is a spread. So if we break one glass pane, we can throw the patch through there and catch them in the effect. Even with their high strength this will slow them down, allowing us to isolate one of them

If anybody of you has cash to spare in the end, be so kind to buy a backpack(2GP) with as many Harpoons(15 GP each) in it as you can without forfeiting the chance to get an item more useful to you. Just drop the bag first round, would be a shame if I run out of those wonderful Harpoons and have to start throwing mere javelins :smalltongue:


edit: still Red Team
In case anybody's wondering, Tanglepatches are in Races of Faerun, page 173. 100 GP each, 20 ft range increment, create entangle spell at point of impact. Quite nasty

Red team Bickering continued:

I can sell my potion of invis. Since it will be useless this match, and with that money buy 2 tangle thingys, then buy a backpack with some harpoons if you think that will be for the best.
And thanks for that clarification, and I know isn’t deflect arrows amazing! Makes you pretty much immune to lvl 1 archers,….

Since we have the advantage on range I guess that means we wait for them, with that being said do I still want to take the potion right off the bat,

[TheFallenOne]

Ninja'd.

No Sir, Spartan, not Ninja. Spartans kick ninjas asses every day, even on Deadliest Warrior, which is quite narmy except for the enjoyable weapon tests.

Don't care either way about the map, let's just go with the 4on4 version

Better Red than Dead!

Yeah, Deflect Arrows is nice, though I prefer Block Arrow. It's like Deflect Arrows, only you need a shield instead of a free hand and even better, no prerequisite feat. That feat and harpoons are the bread and butter of my character, avoid ranged attacks with Block Arrow, avoid meleers with insane AC and the slowing effect of harpoons(half speed, no charge or running). Casters are my admitted weak point, but who cares now :smallbiggrin:

So, we should think about starting locations now. I suggest Ka-Ugh and I stay together, I pepper them with harpoons and you stay close to me and grapple anyone coming close. I think you should't go on the offensive on your own, we have more ranged potential so they're forced to come to us

Hm, I'll look for some potion-able spell to boost my ranged attack bonus, even with Law Devotion it's only 6. I had thought about Neanderthal with Brutal Throw, that would give attack +10, but Warforged just have more awesome :smalltongue:

[hustlertwo]

So, is red team going to do any buys, or just try to spoiler us to death?

Blues:

I wish we were the reds. They have Sarge, Griff, and Donut, all we get is Church, Tucke,r and Caboose. Lame.

[TheFallenOne]

Well, I guess my buys are the easiest, with only 80 GP to spend. Pity, just 100 more would make a huge difference

Harpoon 15 GP
Backpack 2 GP
13 javelins 13 GP
Potion of Shield of Faith 50 GP

I'm broke and for that you deserve a smackin' for ragin'

May exchange potion for Psionic Tattoo of Vigor

Reds
Well, tough call. Shield of Faith gives me AC 27 which will be extremely hard for them to break, Vigor let's me survive a lucky hit, can't count on them not getting a nice roll when the time is right

[Wizibirb]

they are on to us with spoilering them to death!!!!
No just finalizing a few things
red team of spoilers

if it is true that I should just sit their and grapple with anyone who decideds to get near us then perhaps I should trade in my bow for Tanglepatches and harpoons for you.... no?

assuming this does not carry over otherwise that would be a waste, and I have the potions for you so do you really want to have to use spears?

[TheFallenOne]

Reds
"assuming this does not carry over otherwise that would be a waste, and I have the potions for you so do you really want to have to use spears? "

Sorry I don't quite get what you want to say here

I'd keep the bow, nice damage and no one of them is an AC monster. Plus, it forces them on the offensive and you can always just drop it(or better yet switch to mouth) once they get close enough for grappling

So, how do we start the match, buff while shooting down glass panes, pepper them with ranged attacks once we have LoE, and when they make a move on us use tanglepatches to impede their movement and then single one of them out? Or use the tanglepatches as soon as we can hit them to reduce their maneuverability from the get-go?

[Wildgeist]

So, is red team going to do any buys, or just try to spoiler us to death?

Blues:

I wish we were the reds. They have Sarge, Griff, and Donut, all we get is Church, Tucke,r and Caboose. Lame.


Hi there Hustlertwo, sorry but neither Scorer nor I understood what you meant... :smalleek: I guess that's even lamer.... :smalltongue:

[Psionic Dog]

Right. Purchases.

Selling breastplate, buying +1 breastplate: 1250 gp net
ML 2 Psionic Tatoo Prescience Offensive, 100 gp
CL 2 Potion Shield of Faith, 100 gp
Psionic Tatoo of Precognition: 50 gp
2x each Tangle Patch, Tangle Foot, Alchemist Fire: 340 gp

That leaves a handful of change in case Dense needs to make a reactionary purchase.


Red Team
If you have a favorite buff that lasts 2+ minutes, drink it at the start. Otherwise save it until it looks like the blue guys are almost ready to make an offensive move. This match will probably last 10-25 rounds.

As far as strategy, start knocking down walls are ready actions in case they appear. Once we have LoE we'll pepper them with arrows while using tangle patches to keep them away.

Ka-Ugh, don't hesitate to grapple if any of them get separated from the others at a conveniently exposed position It's your specialty and you're better at it than any of them. We'll try to keep the others off you if you ever get a grapple on one of them.

Everyone: Don't forget the power of readied actions. Stuff like "Move if any enemy provokes an AoO within X distance" or "attack any glass plane an opponent moves adjacent too" can be effective.

[TheFallenOne]

Manfred von Richthofen

I'll try to get some walls removed with javelins in the beginning, no need to waste my harpoons on that. I'll start bottom left, I suggest Kaugh takes the position right to me and meets me on the left side.

Readied actions are especially nasty here because they all have worse initiative than each of us, so we can harass them with readied actions and act again before them the next round. Hell, we can easily avoid close combat with readied actions to move away when they come close. Once any of them has a harpoon sticking in them he's no threat anymore because he won't be able to reach us if we play it right

So, since we start with LoS I guess we should announce positions and held items before starting.

SPARTA Cuss:
Start in G25, bronze extreme shield equipped left hand, javelin held right hand, potion held in mouth

edit: So, horses are large creatures and occupy for squares, right? In which of these exactly is the rider then?

I'll write down my statblock now, feel free to check
Stats

Hp: 12/12
AC: Full 22, Flat-Footed 11, Touch 21(+1 Dex, +8 Armor, +3 Shield)
Javelins left: 13
Harpoons left: 9

[hustlertwo]

Oooh, the tanglepatch. Forgot about those. I'll sell my original masterwork chain shirt and get 2 of those.

[TheFallenOne]

Yeah, those things are nasty. Learned about them in your 2on2 match where you faced another Warforged with Adamantine Body. Though unfortunately the effect will be lesser here because all of you do rather high damage

Had a little spare time to make a portrait. BEHOLD the mighty SPARTA CUSS!
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1551/spartak.jpg

edit: new version, which one looks more menacing?
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/340/sparta2.jpg

[hustlertwo]

Of course, the tanglepatch had been useless to us, both Scorer and Random made all their saves for it. But yes, the theory behind it is sound.

Blues

Sorry, reference to an old Halo web series, Red vs. Blue.

[TheFallenOne]

Well, even if you make the save it still halves your movement while you're on the effect and makes a 40 ft radius zone a no-go area unless you like to gamble

[Psionic Dog]

So you have tanglepatchs of your own now...

I'll buy 2x Cure Light Wound potions, another Psionic tatoo of Precognition, and a greased shirt (masterwork escape artist tool).

No other purchases planned.

Dense will start in O-25/P-26 mounted and armored holding his crossbow in one hand.


Once everyone names a starting zone and declines reactionary buys we'll be ready to start it looks like.

[hustlertwo]

Compressed all my buys into my initiative post, might be good if others did the same so we have somewhere to look for their current inventory since sheets won't reflect this.

I'll start in pink, and I guess I take up the whole thing while mounted. S1-T2.

[Wizibirb]

ka-ugh will start in k-25
With his loaded bow in one hand, backpack (loaded with harpoons and the tanglepatchs) in the other hand, and a potion in his mouth.

Final buys:
selling potion of invis and buying 2 tanglepatchs and 6 harpoons and a backpack.

red team

I will be dropping the backpack with Harpoons and tanglepatchs for Spartacus as He will put them to better use than I can.

Unfortunately I do not have any shooting feats or a good dex modifier for that matter, I am not sure If I will be much use with the bow.

and which planes of glass do we start shattering first? and which ones do we leave for them?

[TheFallenOne]

Red Team
I have just +1 more on ranged attacks than you. I think it would be better if you kept one tangepatch for yourself, that way each of us has one and can use it to impede their mobility.

You know what, don't drop the backpack. Carry it in your mouth so you can still use your bow and move adjacent to me on your Turn 1. Then on my Turn 2 I can take it from you as a free action. Though that does mean I can't throw a javelin/harpoon in round 2 because I still need a move to draw them and stashing the backpack is a move action too. I could though start with a javelin in my mouth and throw that one Round 2, but I prefer to have the potion ready at all times by carrying it in my mouth

Where we move and which glass panes we attack depends on which locations they choose, so let's wait. I can't fail to notice Hustlertwo is as far away from my harpoons as possible, I guess he had the same thought about his horse as we did. But well, attacking the other two is good too, if I get a hit and they fail their reflex they're practically out of the match with mere 20 ft movement

edit: just saw you carry a potion in your mouth now too. I thought it was free when i suggested carrying the bag there

[Wizibirb]

red team

I have never used the tangle thingy's, to be honest I do not know how they work or when would be the right time to throw them. That is why I said that you should take them. and I think the way I have it now is fine move to you drop bag as a free action down the potion and get ready to unleash an arrowy hell and as soon as anyone gets within 40 ft of me drop the bow and go give a deathly hug to someone,

[TheFallenOne]

Red Team
This will actually the first time for me to use them too. Just think of them as a grenade that create a CL1 Entangle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/entangle.htm) spell at the point of impact. Throw it when you have a good chance to catch one or more of them near the center of the effect with no risk of getting a teammate too(40 ft radius is BIG) or when they prepare for a charge on us.

One final suggestion: don't drop your bow, switch it to your mouth. That way you can resume shooting anytime once you're not grappling anymore

[Psionic Dog]

Hey Scorer, about that 10' tall indestructible wall: is that a flat 10' total elevation or 10' above the stairs/elevated platform?

Basically, can a creature standing on that green space shoot straight north or south?


Red Team
Remember, transferring object from one player or another is at least a move action (Free drop, move pick up) or else a standard action (unresisted disarm)

As for as panels to destroy: Clearing out C19-D21 and W19-X-21 would give us more room to maneuver.

C13/14 or X13/14 would need to be destroyed to move north unhindered.

As far as the rest... *shrug* hard to say.


Sparta (17) : Starting G-25
Dense (14): Starting O-25/P-26
Train (10): Starting S1-T2
Ka-Ugh (8): Starting K-25
Wildgeist (6): Starting ??
Oro (4): Starting ??

[Wizibirb]

one last red team question

if thats the case should we start by throwing the tangle thingys? That way they have to make the check as soon as they get to it and have to walk through it longer.

[Scorer]

Hey Scorer, about that 10' tall indestructible wall: is that a flat 10' total elevation or 10' above the stairs/elevated platform?

Basically, can a creature standing on that green space shoot straight north or south?


Yup, the wall covers the first stairs, but in green area (+20) and the higher stairs the wall don't get to cover you.

[Wildgeist]

Ok then, Wildgeist will not do Reactionary purchases since I really don't have money left from the character build and I wanna try the stuff I bought for the official round, so my equipment and items are as they appear in my sheet. Wildgeist will start in H2. So be my guests guys and lets have some battling!!!!! :smallamused:

[TheFallenOne]

Alright, only Oros starting position is missing. If there are no reactionary purchases anymore I can start with my first Turn

Um, what is the AC of the Glass panes? Are the stairs and elevation subject to entangle?

Red Team
I think I'll try to take out the wall in H16/17, that way Kaugh and I would have LoE if they try to take the stairs on the left

I would throw the tanglepatches once there are holes in the central glass wall. The entangle effect goes around glass, but not through, so throwing first round would almost exclusively effect our half of the map

[Psionic Dog]

I believe all terrain is assumed to be earthen unless otherwise stated.

So the stairs probably are subject to entangle spell effects (nothing implies otherwise)

However the elevated green area probably would not be since the map describes that to be transparent, and therefore likely either a crystal or force surface. Since solid crystal/glass/force panes do not contain grass/roots the entangle spell would do nothing on such a surface.

Glass Panal AC would be 3 (10 -5 dex - 2 inanimate)

[Scorer]

Oro starts in L2

[Scorer]

I believe all terrain is assumed to be earthen unless otherwise stated.

So the stairs probably are subject to entangle spell effects (nothing implies otherwise)

However the elevated green area probably would not be since the map describes that to be transparent, and therefore likely either a crystal or force surface. Since solid crystal/glass/force panes do not contain grass/roots the entangle spell would do nothing on such a surface.

Glass Panal AC would be 3 (10 -5 dex - 2 inanimate)

However, the arena rules says that all terrain is suceptible to have whatever a spell may need. So, the green area and stairs also get affected by entangle (as much as I may later hate to have said this :smalltongue:)

[Psionic Dog]

However, the arena rules says that all terrain is suceptible to have whatever a spell may need. So, the green area and stairs also get affected by entangle (as much as I may later hate to have said this :smalltongue:)

More exactly:


Unless an Arena specifies that a spell doesn't work it works as normal. E.g. Entangle

My first thought was that this Arena specifically implied that the conditions for entangle to work as normal on the platform did not exist, but since you're the map author and know the map's intentions better than I I'll happily defer to your judgment. :smallsmile:

[hustlertwo]

So, we starting? It's just an exhibition, I think we can skip the reactive buys thing.

[TheFallenOne]

So, we starting? It's just an exhibition, I think we can skip the reactive buys thing.

Fine with me, I haven't even left a copper anyway :smallwink:

Ridiculously meticulous Battle Planning
Na, just wanted to annoy the Blues some more :smalltongue:

Neat, no Action spoilers needed for now.
Hm, I just saw this line in the SRD: "Generally, you can smash an object only with a bludgeoning or slashing weapon." Does this apply here too? If yes I'll have to change my purchases to take some light hammers instead of javelins. I'll just go ahead for now on the assumption that piercing weapons work on the glass walls

SPARTA Cuss, Red Harpoon of Doom Turn 1

Standard: Attack Glass Wall in H16/17 with hold javelin [roll0] -2 for range included. AC 3
Damage: [roll1] halved(object)
Free: shift potion to hand
Free: Yell "Warriors, friend and foe! Let's show all those Batman wizards out there how REAL men fight!"
Free: shift potion back to mouth
Move: Go to E21
Free as part of move: Draw javelin

Stats

Hp: 12/12
AC: Full 22, Flat-Footed 11, Touch 21(+1 Dex, +8 Armor, +3 Shield)
Javelins left: 12
Harpoons left: 9


done

[TheFallenOne]

doh, damage should be 1d6+4, so 7. Since as far as I know D&D generally rounds .5 down the glass wall still stands with 1 HP

[Psionic Dog]

Dense - Round 1

Dense rides out to V22-W23 and activates a psionic tatoo.

Psicraft DC 16
Precognition

Done

Stats
Dense:
AC: 21 [+6 armor +1 shield +3 dex +1 size]
HP: 36/36
Precognition: 100/100 left

[hustlertwo]

Wouldn't you roll the critical damage as well, Fallen? Or can you not crit inanimate objects?

[Scorer]

Inanimate are not subject to crits/sneak attacks/etc

[hustlertwo]

Start wielding my sling, with my buckler on and a bottle in that off-hand. Move to U-4/V-5. Drink potion. Drop bottle.

Done.

[TheFallenOne]

Yeah, totally wasted a natural 20 on a piece of glass(and didn't even roll enough damage to break it). This is gonna bite me in my shiny metal back

[Wizibirb]

Ka-ugh The hugging man, Turn 1

Free, Yell: "Ka-ugh want hug! Ka-ugh love hugs!"
Move: Move to F-21
Free: drop backpack
Standered: Shoot wall in I 16/17

[roll0]
Damage
[roll1] <---halved

Free Whisper to SPARTA Cuss

After round two instead of shooting I will ready an action to drink the potion sound good?

[TheFallenOne]

Hm, I'm not sure if you have LoE from F21 to I16/17, rather narrow.

other players
Though he could just shoot before moving, so it doesn't matter if you ask me. Spoilered in case this is considered OOC advice after match start

[Wildgeist]

Wildgeist Turn 1

Start in H2 with potions in each hands.

Move: Move to P3
Standard: Drink one potion
Free: Toss empty vial


Drink Faith Shield +2 Potion
+2 to Deflect AC




End of Turn




STATS


Wildgeist Started @H02
Wildgeist Ended @P03

HP 14/14
AC 20 (10 +3 Armor +1 Shield +4 Dexterity +2 Deflection) T 14 FF 14

Bullets Left: 20 Carried of a total of 100 Owned

Rage: 0/8 Rounds

Good Hand Wielding: Mage Armor Potion
Off Hand Wielding: Free


Backpack
Knotted Silked Grappling Hook (+2 circumstance bonus in Use Rope and Climb DC 0)
Bullets
Sling

Belt Pouch
Acid Flask X3
Alchemist Fire X3
Tanglefoot X1
Cure Light Wounds Potion X1
Magic Weapon Oil X1

[Scorer]

Oro 1st Turn

Start in L2 with one potion in each hand.

Move: to S4
Standard: Drink one of the potions

Shield of Faith +2


End of Turn

STATS

Oro started @ L2
Oro ended @ S4
HP 18/18
AC 20 (10 +1 Shield, +3 Dex, +4 Armor, +2 Deflection) T 15 FF 17
98 arrows left

Hand 1 Wielding: Potion Enlarge
Hand 2 Wielding: Free

Consumables Used:
Potion Shield Faith

Shield of Faith 1/10 Rounds

[TheFallenOne]

SPARTA Cuss, Turn 2

SPARTA Cuss nods at Ka-Ugh and mumbles something that can't be made out with the potion in his mouth impeding his speach.
Free: Drop javelin
Move: pick up backpack
Move: stash backpack
Free: 5 foot step to [roll0] :smalltongue:

Stats

Hp: 12/12
AC: Full 22, Flat-Footed 11, Touch 21(+1 Dex, +8 Armor, +3 Shield)
Javelins left: 11
Harpoons left: 15


done

[hustlertwo]

Why is there a d20 on your 5 foot, Fallen?

[Psionic Dog]

Dense - Round 2

Free: Shout "Hey! They're coming out and around on side!"

Direct mount to attack W/X-21 from the safety of the side.
[roll0] [roll1]

5ft-step everything up to V21/W22

Direct mount to continue full attack with a strike on W/X-20
[roll2] [roll3] << Why now and not latter when it matters? :smallannoyed:

Standard: Tap another psionic tatoo.

DC 16 Psicraft
Prescience, offensive

Move: Draw an alchemical bag.
Tangle pack

Done

Stats
Dense:
AC: 21 [+6 armor +1 shield +3 dex +1 size]
HP: 36/36
Precognition: 99/100 left
Prescience offensive: 20/20 left

Horse
AC: 17 (+3 armor +1 dex -1 size +4 natural)
HP: 30/30

[hustlertwo]

OK, so before I take my turn, where is Fallen?

[TheFallenOne]

Why is there a d20 on your 5 foot, Fallen?

Because I'm IN d20. Sorry if this little bit of goofyness got confusing

[hustlertwo]

Oh, heh. Didn't notice that.

[hustlertwo]

As with the 4v4, I find that it already becomes difficult to keep track of where everyone is.

Move to V-10/W-11. Move to sheathe sling. Second move to draw lance.

Stats:

AC: 21
9 rounds of Shield of Faith
HP: 31
Position: V-10/W-11
Equipped: Lance, buckler

[Scorer]

Do as I do, I use Corel Photo paint, so I can create objects to place them in the squares, also I use red crosses for destroyed panes. That makes it very easy to track.

[hustlertwo]

Man, I'm not sure I would even do that much work for a real match. For an exhibition, no chance. I'm a writer, I have people who handle my graphics work. Due in no small part to my complete inability to do so.

[Wizibirb]

ka-ugh:

take a 5ft step to E-20

then ready an action:

Attack one of them if they get within range, or if no one is in range before my next turn attack the wall of glass.

[Wildgeist]

Wildgeist Round 2

Move: Move to S10
Standard: Drink Potion in Hand
Free: Drop empty vial.


Drink Mage Armor Potion
+1 to armor in AC




STATS


Wildgeist Started @P03
Wildgeist Ended @S10

HP 14/14
AC 21 (10 +4 Armor +1 Shield +4 Dexterity +2 Deflection) T 14 FF 14

Bullets Left: 20 Carried of a total of 100 Owned

Bullets Used: 0

Rage: 0/8 Rounds

Good Hand Wielding: Free
Off Hand Wielding: Free


Backpack
Knotted Silked Grappling Hook (+2 circumstance bonus in Use Rope and Climb DC 0)
Bullets
Sling

Belt Pouch
Acid Flask X3
Alchemist Fire X3
Tanglefoot X1
Cure Light Wounds Potion X1
Magic Weapon Oil X1

[Scorer]

Oro 2nd Turn

Double Move: to X12

End of Turn

STATS

Oro started @ S4
Oro ended @ X12
HP 18/18
AC 20 (10 +1 Shield, +3 Dex, +4 Armor, +2 Deflection) T 15 FF 17
98 arrows left

Hand 1 Wielding: Potion Enlarge
Hand 2 Wielding: Free

Consumables Used:
Potion Shield Faith

Shield of Faith 2/10 Rounds

[TheFallenOne]

SPARTA Cuss, Turn 3[/COLOR]

"Incoming!"

Standard: Attack glass wall in O16/17
Attack [roll0] -4 for range I think(included), maybe only -2
Damage [roll1] halved
Move: Go to E16
Free as part of Move: Draw harpoon

Stats

Hp: 12/12
AC: Full 22, Flat-Footed 11, Touch 21(+1 Dex, +8 Armor, +3 Shield)
Javelins left: 10
Harpoons left: 15


done

and I horribly fail at breaking the glass again... Why do I get awesome attack rolls against AC5, but fail to do average or above damage needed to break it?

[Psionic Dog]

Dense - Round 3

Ride out to X18/Y19. (midpoint of this round's mounted movement)

Rapid Shot!
Attack 1: Tangle Pack to X-9. 45 ft away from Dense: 2 range increments.
[roll0] DC 5.

Free: Resume proper 2-hand grip on crossbow.

Attack 2: Crossbow attack on Oro.
[roll1] [roll2]

Dense then rides back to X23/W24.
Total distance ridden: 50ft (single horse move action)

Done

Stats
Dense:
AC: 21 [+6 armor +1 shield +3 dex +1 size]
HP: 36/36
Precognition: 98/100 left
Prescience offensive: 19/20 left

Horse
AC: 17 (+3 armor +1 dex -1 size +4 natural)
HP: 30/30

[Scorer]

I'm not sure if you can use Rapid Shot that way, as SRD says:



You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. The attack is at your highest base attack bonus, but each attack you make in that round (the extra one and the normal ones) takes a –2 penalty. You must use the full attack action to use this feat.


Point is that you only can use the extra attack with the same ranged weapon. Also, not sure if TanglePack is considered a "weapon".

[Psionic Dog]

Hrm. I think you're right.

For the record I don't agree with the first "you only can use the extra attack with the same ranged weapon" bit, but I'm not going to argue rules on that right now since you clearly have me on that second bit.

I don't have the source, but I think you're right about tangle packs not being weapons. Since I forgot that Rapid shot specified "weapon(s)" that makes the action invalid.


I guess I'll just go with the just the first listed attack (the tangle pack) at +2 to hit for a 7 vs DC 5.

So, Team Blue needs Reflex, DC 11 vs. entanglement. (someone correct me if I'm off)

Since entangle causes the grass, roots, etc to entangle creatures I don't know if Train (mounted and high enough up to take falling damage) is effected, but the mount, Oro, and Wildgeist should all need to roll saves.

[hustlertwo]

I don't know if RS works with only one weapon or not; how often does it come up? More than one ranged weapon in hand is fairly unusual.

And yeah, since I don't touch the ground I assume I don't.

Horse: [roll0]

[Scorer]

Reflex
[roll0]

[Wildgeist]

Blue Team


Just to be sure, do I also have to do a reflex save??? I think I'm out of the effect area but not quite sure....

[Scorer]

Yes you do, and you need not spoiler that question.

[Wildgeist]

Wildgeist Reflex save

[roll0]

[TheFallenOne]

I'm a little bit confused, how exactly do LoS and LoE work if you're mounted on a creature larger than you? The horse occupies 4 squares, the rider normally one, but since it isn't specified in which one he is, is he basically considered as a medium creature that occupies four squares?

[hustlertwo]

That's how I see it. As for how that affects cover, no clue.

[TheFallenOne]

Well, if you're considered to be on 4 squares concerning cover(which you have to be, otherwise it would need to be defined in which square the rider is) then X9 has cover, so that's actually a miss. Though no matter where the misdirection goes, it should still affect all of you, even if it lands in the lava.

Hm, where are the rules again for targetting a square, my assumption was you throw the tanglepatch at a grid intersection like described unter splash weapons

[hustlertwo]

A square is AC 5. I don't know what happens if you miss; with splash weapons you roll the miss location, and with a tanglefoot bag I believe a miss simply means nothing happens. Whether or not that's the case with a tanglepatch I can't say (likely, though, that it goes with the splash weapon way of things). But I was really just mentioning the cover thing in general. I don't think it applies to this situation. Never heard of a square or inanimate object getting the benefit of cover. It might be possible, but it'd be new to me.

[TheFallenOne]

Hm, well, since no exception for squares or objects is explicitetly spelled out, they should get cover normally. I guess the tanglepatch misdirects 20 feet(one range increment) as described under splash weapons if I'm right

[hustlertwo]

Unless a tanglepatch has a specific mention of a 20 foot range increment (does it?), it would probably just be 10 feet per increment. And yeah, assuming TPs work like an acid flask or something, that'd be the long and the short of it. I wouldn't be willing to make an Arena precedent to that effect, since I'm not sure that's the case. But this is an exhibition, so let's just play it like that unless someone else has a better answer.

[TheFallenOne]

Unless a tanglepatch has a specific mention of a 20 foot range increment (does it?).

Yes it does. Races of Faerun page 173.

It also says "upon hitting a targer or landing", suggesting it takes also effect if it lands somewhere else after missing

[Psionic Dog]

So... do I need to roll a miss direction?

Hustler (V-10/W-11) shouldn't give X-9 any cover from where Dense threw. Not sure about Oro however.

Speaking of which, it's one square per range increment off, (about 15 ft) if the tangle patch missed and needs to be redirected.

[TheFallenOne]

Oh silly me, your size doesn't effect targets cover since you measure that from a single corner of your choice. I thought the glass gives cover since it blocks LoE. If we measure from Y17/Z18, W9/Y10 narrowly doesn't have cover from the glass wall(8 squares up, 2 squares left. Edge of the glass wall is 4 up, 1 left, so the line touches the wall, but isn't blocked by it). However, Oro in X12 easily blocks the line to W9/10, so it has cover after all. Well, I guess we should roll misdirection now

[Scorer]

Are you telling me that the tanglepatch thrown in post 74 is a miss? Curious...

[hustlertwo]

I'm so confused. Why would it matter if anything had cover except the square he targeted?

[Scorer]

I'm just as confused as you are, my best guess is that they say that Oro provided cover for the grid spot, therefore his Natural Roll of 4 (+1)wouldn't hit AC 9 (5+4 cover)

But I'm not sure....

[Wizibirb]

sits their with the biggest look of confusion on his face.... *blows a socket*

[Wildgeist]

You know guys... I think the 4 of us are really lost here.... :smalleek: I really don't get what happened... LOL Please we need an explanation... LOL:smalltongue:

[Psionic Dog]

What happened?

Dense moved to X18/Y19.

Why? Because he couldn't pass up tossing a tangle pack where it would snare the entire team Blue.

So Dense tried a rapid shot tangle patch/crossbow.

Only... that was an illegal action. Tangle pack's can't be used with rapid shot.

So Dense just used the tangle pack on X-9 where the glass wall wouldn't provide cover.

Only... he forgot that Oro provided soft cover. :smallredface:

So the 7 (roll[4] +3) missed DC 9 (5 + 4 cover). The ground aught to only be a DC 3 to hit, but RAW is pretty clear that using a splash weapon on the ground is DC 5.

When splash effects miss they land in a random location 5 ft per range increment away. That was 15 ft, so a 15ft off set (unless it hits a wall before then)

[roll0]
1 = South back toward dense, clockwise from there.

So the pack lands in X-6 instead.


EDIT:
I think this is a current map reflecting current locations and terrain changes if it helps...
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x184/sublightrun/4v4mapTemp.png
Little circles are the L1 gladiators. Medium circles are the L2 gladiators. Big circles are the mounted L3 gladiators.

[hustlertwo]

Thanks, PD, very helpful. I guess this makes it Sparta's turn, yes?

[TheFallenOne]

RAW is pretty clear that using a splash weapon on the ground is DC 5.[/spoiler]

Not that I'm aware of. Throwing a splash weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#throwSplashWeapon) describes targetting a grid intersection as AC 5. For reference, Sallera also targetted a grid intersection with the patch here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7824251&postcount=22)

To further support my point:
Entangle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/entangle.htm) has a 40 ft radius spread
Tanglepatches create an effect identical to Entangle(Races of Faerun)
SRD: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm)

Spread

Some effects, notably clouds and fogs, spread out from a point of origin, which must be a grid intersection

So I think Psidog should have targetted an intersection, not a square. Since those consist of a single point, they never have cover if you have LoE


Thanks, PD, very helpful. I guess this makes it Sparta's turn, yes?

huh, why? I just acted before Dense, which means the whole Team Blue and Kaugh come before me. The only thing you've done Round 3 were reactionary Reflex saves

[hustlertwo]

Ah, OK, I forgot the order. Now I go to dig it back up.

[hustlertwo]

Posting order:

Sparta (17)
Dense (14)
Train (10)
Ka-Ugh (8)
Wildgeist (6)
Oro (4)

Red team sucks, so no colors for them.

Train will move/squeeze his way in a double move to X-16/Y-17. Pretty sure the horse has move enough.

Stats:

AC: 21
8 rounds of Shield of Faith
HP: 31
Position: X-16/Y-17
Equipped: Lance, buckler

[hustlertwo]

Oh, and since I can't edit in rolls and forgot to do this, I shift my lance to my buckler hand, draw a javelin, and chuck it at Dense.

[roll0]
[roll1]

No cover, as far as I know. And I think it's still one range increment. Not 100%. Afterwards, I shift the lance back to my main hand and end.

[TheFallenOne]

Red team sucks, so no colors for them.

I'm so close to doing some more Red Team spoilers just to annoy you :smalltongue:

Any other opinions on the tanglepatch targetting a square or a grid intersection? I made my case

[Wizibirb]

Need an answer before posting my turn.

[Psionic Dog]

Thunderstone

You can throw this stone as a ranged attack with a range increment of 20 feet. When it strikes a hard surface (or is struck hard), it creates a deafening bang that is treated as a sonic attack. Each creature within a 10-foot-radius spread must make a DC 15 Fortitude save or be deafened for 1 hour. A deafened creature, in addition to the obvious effects, takes a -4 penalty on initiative and has a 20% chance to miscast and lose any spell with a verbal component that it tries to cast.

Since you don’t need to hit a specific target, you can simply aim at a particular 5-foot square. Treat the target square as AC 5.

This implies that alchemical items with a spread effect can target 5-ft squares. If spell effect items are different Dense would have had to target an intersection, which may have caused the tangle pack to hit on target anyway. However, unless someone strong disagrees I'm choosing to believe that one can opt to target either an intersection or a square.


@Hustler:
You forgot the -4 penalty for shooting from a mount taking a double move. Further since the attack is taken when the mount has taken half it's movement, I believe you would have been more than 30 ft away at the time of attack for an additional -2 range penalty. The resulting 16 would misses.

[TheFallenOne]

Well, we've both cited some evidence, I'd still say it should target an intersection, though it may very well be possible to choose either. I'd say we just go with your interpretation, it's just an Exhibition match and I doubt Team Blue will object to favouring your reading since it results in a miss

If anyone is using Psidogs map as reference, be aware that Ka-Ugh is in my Turn 3 location and I'm still in my Turn 2 location, seems he moved the wrong character

[hustlertwo]

Yeah, new to mounted combat. Didn't know the attacks came in the middle of the move, or about the penalty for a double move.

[Psionic Dog]

The good news is that the mounted combat rules aren't as complicated as the grapple rules. The bad news is that isn't saying much. :smallwink:

Anyway, it's only for full attacks or when the mount takes a double move or more that ranged attacks occur at the middle of the ride.

[hustlertwo]

Yeah, I looked it up. I had initially asked whether it impacted a charge, but got my answer. So basically, melee combat is improved while mounted, but ranged fighting often has disadvantages. Fortunately, ranged fighting isn't a major element of Train's strategy. Just a nice bonus.

[hustlertwo]

Sanity, doesn't look like you're getting an answer to your question. I'd suggest you either post it again, or ask one of your teammates about it.

[Wizibirb]

well if you guys don't mind I will just post it here, and since this is a match that is just for fun I guess anyone can answer it.


Can I grapple someone off of their horse?

((spoiled just in case you don't want me asking out loud))

[TheFallenOne]

Interesting question, let's take a look


SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple)
Move

You can move half your speed (bringing all others engaged in the grapple with you) by winning an opposed grapple check. This requires a standard action, and you must beat all the other individual check results to move the grapple.

Note: You get a +4 bonus on your grapple check to move a pinned opponent, but only if no one else is involved in the grapple.

Well, although they share their spaces, rider and mount are still separate creatures, so you can grapple one without grappling the other. If you move and take your opponent with you, that should separate rider from horse indeed(note that it even seems to be possible to literally pull away the horse from under the riders butt by grappling the horse instead of the rider, though I have no idea how to determine in which square the rider ends up after that).
No guarantees, just what I think is RAW after reading Mounted Combat and Grappling.

[hustlertwo]

Well, since the rider is ten feet in the air, I'm not sure it is possible. Although there is nothing stopping you from grappling the horse.

[Psionic Dog]

I'm 99% certain that precedent holds that while the rider may be 10ft up for purposes of falling damage and ground only effect that they may still be targeted by attacks on any of their mount's space.

That is, creatures on the ground can attack a rider without a reach weapon and vise-versa.

So grappling should be possible - I just don't know if grappling a rider moves both the grapple onto the horse with the grappled or pulls the grappled off the horse.

EDIT: I found this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050208a) that contains a small blurb about halfway down on mounted creatures and grapples.

[Wizibirb]

Ka-ugh

Standered: Drink potion,
Free action: become huge!!! (Ka-ugh is now Large size)
Move to k-21

End turn.

[TheFallenOne]

I'm 99% certain that precedent holds that while the rider may be 10ft up for purposes of falling damage and ground only effect that they may still be targeted by attacks on any of their mount's space.

Exactly. Mounted combat says

"For simplicity, assume that you share your mount’s space during combat."

No exception for vertical spaces mentioned


So, on another topic, I thought about rebuilding SPARTA Cuss a little and since I believe all of you took a little look at him maybe you can give me second opinions. With level 2 in mind, Fighter 2 just doesn't look that great, so I thought about Cleric.

Pros:
Retrain Law Devotion for Brutal Throw, get Law Devotion again by sacrificing a Domain --> bonus feat
Spells. Blesses Aim is gold, True Strike with a harpoon can be an instant matchwinner
Domain goodness. Luck reroll? Free Point Blank Shot plus True Strike as domain spell? Yes please
+3 Will, one of my weak points

Cons: I need wisdom 11, so lower con to 14, dex to 13.
Good news: Once I have Brutal Throw the lower Dex won't hurt much
Bad news: Almost no advantages on Level 1 while lowering my HP by 1 and my ranged attack by 1(so only 2, 5 with Law Devotion). Well, it pays off in the long run, but level 1 will be tougher

Anyway, I editted my character, though for this match I guess we should assume he still is as when the match started(Dex 14, Con 16, Wis 8 with all consequences)

[TheFallenOne]

Ka-ugh

Standered: Drink potion,
Free action: become huge!!! (Ka-ugh is now Large size)
Move to k-21

End turn.

Clarification needed, you occupy fouer squares now. J20/K21 or J21/K22?

[Wizibirb]

sorry I forgot I am larger now so lets go with J20/K21

[hustlertwo]

Which I guess makes it Wildgeist's turn.

As for the redesign, I always find Dex to be utterly vital, but I also never do a character with anything more than light armor (except Fiorella, who has none at all). Because I'm also big on high move speed. It sounds like you're getting a fair amount for the tradeoff though, even if it hurts to have stats at odd numbers since you'll never get far enough to earn the extra attribute point to snag another modifier from either of them (that's level 7, right? Or maybe 5. Either way, not likely to happen, at least for several years).

And the good thing is that while you'll still miss the extra HP from the higher Con stat, the lowered Fort save won't impact you at all, since virtually everything that requires a Fort save is something Warforged are immune to (poison, nausea, things of that nature).

[TheFallenOne]

Yeah, I'm also high on mobility, see my characters Bobhorst and escpecially Sturmherz(three movement modes, 50 ft each plus Travel Devotion). Sparta Cuss on the other hand can take a lot with insane AC and DR 2, plus 30 ft movement should be enough when I get a hit with my harpoons. Those things are nasty.
I thought about Neanderthal instead of Forged, one free feat for Brutal Throw, more movement, but AC would be lacking because I can't afford high Dex, Str and Con.
Odd attributes are indeed a waste, but I need 13 dex for Block Arrow and 14 doesn't make that much a difference once I'm level 2(max dex of Adamantine Body is 1, Brutal Throw replaces Dex on throwing weapons). Wis 11 is just to get cleric spells, 12 would be nice for one bonus spell, but nowhere to take the point from. Hm, dump intelligence maybe, but just 4 skill points...

Ah, what the hell, who needs climbing anyway. Even with maximum ranks I still have -1.

And you're right about lowered fort, that's why one of my flaws is meager fortitude :smallbiggrin:I found that Unreactive is a bad choice, having a higher Initiative modifier gives you way more options with Ready Action

Incidentally, we have 3 Refs in here, could anybody of you give Sparta a quick sheet check? You should be familiar with him by now anyway and I'm eager to get him into Alpha before all spots are full

If you do it I owe you, so if you believe in Karma it may make my harpoons miss you terribly :smallbiggrin:

[hustlertwo]

No books, so I don't do checks, sorry.

[Wildgeist]

Wildgeist Round 3

Move: Double move at half speed to Y14
Free: Draw Greatsword

End of Turn

STATS


Wildgeist Started @S10
Wildgeist Ended @Y14

HP 14/14
AC 21 (10 +3 Armor +1 Shield +4 Dexterity +2 Deflection +1 Mage Armor) T 14 FF 17
Shield of Faith: 3/10 Rounds
Mage Armor: 2/600 Rounds


Bullets Left: 20 Carried of a total of 100 Owned

Bullets Used: 0

Rage: 0/8 Rounds

Good Hand Wielding: Greatsword
Off Hand Wielding: Greatsword


Backpack
Knotted Silked Grappling Hook (+2 circumstance bonus in Use Rope and Climb DC 0)
Bullets
Sling

Belt Pouch
Acid Flask X3
Alchemist Fire X3
Tanglefoot Bag X1
Cure Light Wounds Potion X1
Magic Weapon Oil X1

[Scorer]

Oro 3rd Turn

Move: to V16
Standard: Drink Potion

Oro grows as well while roaring to the skies to V16/W17

Free: Draw Greatsword

End of Turn

STATS

Oro started @ X12
Oro ended @ V16/W17
HP 18/18
AC 18 (10 +1 Shield, +2 Dex, +4 Armor, +2 Deflection, -1 size) T 15 FF 17
98 arrows left

Hand 1 Wielding: Greatsword
Hand 2 Wielding: Greatsword

Consumables Used:
Potion Shield Faith
Potion Enlarge Person

Shield of Faith 2/10 Rounds
Enlarge Person 1/10 Rounds

Large effects:
-1 AC and attack
+2 Strenght
-2 Dexterity
Weapon damage 3d6

[TheFallenOne]

well, looks like things are getting serious

SPARTA Cuss, Turn 4

Move: Go to J14 sorry, misstype. Meant I14
Free: drop harpoon(I could try switching harpoon and potion and then drink it with the harpoon in my mouth, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't agree with this one :smallbiggrin:)
Standard: Drink potion
Free: drop potion bottle

Stats

Hp: 12/12
AC: Full 24, Flat-Footed 13, Touch 23(+1 Dex, +8 Armor, +3 Shield, +2 Deflection)
Javelins left: 11
Harpoons left: 14

Shield of Faith: 10/10 left


done

since Wildgeist is still in the Entangle zone, he has to save again on Psidogs turn

[Psionic Dog]

Correct. Wildgeist needs another DC 11 reflex save.

Dense - Round 4

Ride 25 ft to S22/T23: the midpoint of today's ride.

Full Attack: Crossbow Rapid Shot on Oro!

[roll0] [roll1]
[roll2] [roll3]

Waiting to see result before continuing turn..

EDIT: :smallmad:
Best of 2 was a 7? Not Cool.

Moving On.

Continue riding away from combat to ... N22/O23.

Done

Stats
Dense:
AC: 21 [+6 armor +1 shield +3 dex +1 size]
HP: 36/36
Precognition: 97/100 left
Prescience offensive: 18/20 left

Horse
AC: 17 (+3 armor +1 dex -1 size +4 natural)
HP: 30/30

[TheFallenOne]

Noticed something curious about the map...

Players in any of the two adjacent coordinates to a breaking wall take 2d6 slashing damage.

Scorer, could you clarify that this is supposed to apply to mounts, ACs and summons as well? Because by RAW, it doesn't

[hustlertwo]

Train will shift his lance, draw a javelin, stop halfway through his move at W-21/X-22 to throw the javelin at the K/L 21 glass wall.

[roll0]
[roll1]

Odds are against it, but it's something to try.

Ending up in W-25/X-26, and shifting the lance back to the main hand.

Stats:

HP: 31
AC: 21
Shield of Faith 7 rounds left
Position: W-25/X-26
Equipped: lance, buckler

[Wildgeist]

Wildgeist Reflex Save

[roll0]

[Wizibirb]

Could someone, through up another map? Also turn forth coming.

[Wizibirb]

Ka-ugh

Move to I-16/J-17

Standered Ready an action.

Grapple someone if:
They come withing 30 ft of K-ugh


Stats:

Hp: 19/19
Ac: 13 *Cringe*
Grapple Check: +17
Touch attack: +8

[hustlertwo]

I would also like another map, if someone feels like taking the time.

Drat with the javelin throw...just 1 more point of damage and it would have been slash time.

[Wizibirb]

Yea I was sweating bullets their

[TheFallenOne]

How are you supposed to stand in I16/J17? :smallconfused: the glass wall in J16/17 is still standing

[TheFallenOne]

Here's your map guys

http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/1187/4v4map.gif

Before Ka-Ughs turn

[hustlertwo]

Your go, Wildgeist.

[TheFallenOne]

Plus we still need clarification from sanity because his move was illegal

[Wildgeist]

Waiting for Sanity Clarification to take my turn.

[Wizibirb]

wait how was my move illegal?

[hustlertwo]

Because half of you is in the glass wall that I tried (and failed) to break. Remember that you take up four spaces now.

[Wizibirb]

Sorry about that, I was not paying attention.
I-17/J18

[Wildgeist]

Wildgeist Round 4

Move: Move to U19
Standard: Ready an action.

Attack any opponent if enters in range or tries to meele attack me.


End of Turn

STATS

Wildgeist Started @Y14
Wildgeist Ended @U19

HP 14/14
AC 21 (10 +3 Armor +1 Shield +4 Dexterity +1 Mage Armor +2 Deflection) T 14 FF 17
Shield of Faith: 4/10 Rounds
Mage Armor: 3/600 Rounds


Bullets Left: 20 Carried of a total of 100 Owned

Bullets Used: 0

Rage: 0/8 Rounds

Good Hand Wielding: Greatsword
Off Hand Wielding: Greatsword


Backpack
Knotted Silked Grappling Hook (+2 circumstance bonus in Use Rope and Climb DC 0)
Bullets
Sling

Belt Pouch
Acid Flask X3
Alchemist Fire X3
Tanglefoot Bag X1
Cure Light Wounds Potion X1
Magic Weapon Oil X1

[Scorer]

Oro 4th Turn

Move to Q20-R21

Attack Dense's Horse

Attack
[roll0]
Damage
[roll1]
If Crit
[roll2]
Additional Damage
[roll3]

End of Turn

STATS

Oro started @ V16/W17
Oro ended @ Q20/R21
HP 18/18
AC 18 (10 +1 Shield, +2 Dex, +4 Armor, +2 Deflection, -1 size) T 15 FF 17
98 arrows left

Hand 1 Wielding: Greatsword
Hand 2 Wielding: Greatsword

Consumables Used:
Potion Shield Faith
Potion Enlarge Person

Shield of Faith 3/10 Rounds
Enlarge Person 2/10 Rounds

Large effects:
-1 AC and attack
+2 Strenght
-2 Dexterity
Weapon damage 3d6

[hustlertwo]

I wouldn't bother attacking his horse, Scorer. Not with Mounted Combat going on.

Although that roll would have missed Dense, so in this case at least now you have a (very) small chance of hitting (assuming he rolls a 4 or lower on his Ride check). So in this particular instance it was the better choice, though of course that's only apparent in hindsight.

[TheFallenOne]

SPARTA Cuss, Turn 5

Move: Go to M14
Free as part of Move: Draw harpoon
Swift: Activate Law Devotion to Attack
Standard: Attack Oro [roll0] -2 range, -4 cover
Damage: [roll1]
If hit: Reflex DC 10+damage or

Harpoon lodges in target. Movement halved, no running or charging. Removing the harpoon is a full-round action and requires two free hands. Removing it deals damage again unless you succeed on a DC 15 Heal check
Relocate Law Devotion to AC
Free: Yell "This!"

Stats

Hp: 12/12
AC: Full 27, Flat-Footed 16, Touch 26(+1 Dex, +8 Armor, +3 Shield, +2 Deflection, +3 sacred)
Javelins left: 11
Harpoons left: 13

Shield of Faith: 9/10 left
Law Devotion: 10/10 left


done

[TheFallenOne]

whoa, that's a threat. Nice :smallbiggrin:

Critical confirm: [roll0]
Additional critical damage: [roll1]

[Scorer]

Reflex

[roll0]

[Psionic Dog]

[roll0] = New AC vs Oro's swing.

[TheFallenOne]

Scorer has officially been harpooned :smallbiggrin: nice

Attention everyone:
It seems we made a mistake with the tanglepatches as they were reprinted in MIC with some changes. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8160256&postcount=392) I looked it up: price 200 instead of 100, duration only 5 rounds, max range 50 ft, but no range increment, so no range penalty either. To avoid rewinding or even restarting because are purchases are now invalid I propose we just go ahead with the RoF version of the patches. Opinions?

[hustlertwo]

It's an exhibition. No need to rewind, play with it being as it was.

[TheFallenOne]

Right then. Just wanted to mention it so we're all on the same page and in case anybody wants to buy the patches in a real match

[Psionic Dog]

Me again?

Dense Round 5

Much as Dense would love to stick around and pound Oro into a flat paste there is no way I'm risking a whirling frenzy lance charge by Train.

[roll0] [roll1]

Horse then rides west. Since 50 ft' isn't fast enough to put the archer on the back line, [roll2] DC 15 for +10 speed / -1 hp for mount. Assuming success end at G17/H18.

Dense will also use his mount as cover at the start to personally avoid a pesky attack of opportunity. [roll3] DC 15

He will however sit up straight at the midpoint (I21/J22) to make a full attack on Hustlers mount.

[roll4] [roll5]
[roll6] [roll7]

Done

Stats
Dense:
AC: 21 [+6 armor +1 shield +3 dex +1 size]
HP: 36/36
Precognition: 97/100 left
Prescience offensive: 18/20 left

Horse
AC: 17 (+3 armor +1 dex -1 size +4 natural)
HP: 29/30

[TheFallenOne]

That hoof attack is illegal, he's 10 feet away from you(Enlarge Person gives him 10 ft reach, but horses only have 5)

[hustlertwo]

No, heavy warhorses are Large, and thus have 10 foot reach. And I'm not Enlarged, I have 10 foot reach because of my lance. As well as my horse also having 100 foot reach, since it's identical to his.

However, there are two problems. One, you don't have Whirling Frenzy listed on your sheet, just Rage. They aren't interchangeable; you have to take one at creation and stick with it forevermore. The other is that if your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can't do more than a single melee attack.

"If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack."

And of course I'm fairly sure you can't attack during the midpoint of a horse's ride, at least with a melee attack. Actions happen instantaneously.

[Scorer]

Warhorse, Heavy
Large Animal Hit Dice: 4d8+12 (30 hp) Initiative: +1 Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares) Armor Class: 14 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +4 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 13 Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+11 Attack: Hoof +6 melee (1d6+4) Full Attack: 2 hooves +6 melee (1d6+4) and bite +1 melee (1d4+2) Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.

I beleive TheFallenone is right about reach

[Psionic Dog]

My Bad on the reach. I accidentally thought I was in O-P for a 5-ft distance some how. :smallredface:


Ok, scratch the hoof attack, the horse will take a withdraw action instead.
Everything else should stand.

[TheFallenOne]

No, heavy warhorses are Large, and thus have 10 foot reach. And I'm not Enlarged, I have 10 foot reach because of my lance. As well as my horse also having 100 foot reach, since it's identical to his.

However, there are two problems. One, you don't have Whirling Frenzy listed on your sheet, just Rage. They aren't interchangeable; you have to take one at creation and stick with it forevermore. The other is that if your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can't do more than a single melee attack.

"If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack."

And of course I'm fairly sure you can't attack during the midpoint of a horse's ride, at least with a melee attack. Actions happen instantaneously.

Regarding horses reach: as quoted by Scorer
I wasn't talking about you regarding enlarge, but Oro. He took a potion and attacked Denses horse from 10 feet away

I don't get what you're talking about with Whirling Frenzy, who's using it? :smallconfused: I don't get either why you talk about melee attacks during riding, maybe there's confusion because you thought Dense made melee attacks? He attacked with his crossbow using rapid shot

[hustlertwo]

I missed the "not gonna risk" part, and just saw him mention a whirling frenzy lance charge. But I guess he was not meaning the capital W and capital F Whirling Frenzy, just more a general term for trying to attack. That was where my assumptions came regarding my attack range and all, I thought he was coming next to me to fight.

And if these horses only have 5 foot reach, I think I played round 72 all wrong. Well, no matter, I still won.

So if I am adjacent to a Large entity, can I still hit it with a reach weapon, since it does technically inhabit squares 10 feet away?

[TheFallenOne]

So if I am adjacent to a Large entity, can I still hit it with a reach weapon, since it does technically inhabit squares 10 feet away?

I'm pretty sure that's a no because all reach weapons specifically say you can't attack adjacent opponents. Of course, you could argue they also say you can attack opponents 10 feet away, and large creatures have squares that qualify for either. But in my opinion the "not attacking adjacent opponents" part should have precedence there

edit: though I personally would make an exception here if your square and the adjacent squares of the large creature are separated by, say, a glass wall and you'd have to attack the square that's 10 feet away anyway. But that thought is rather overcomplicating things

Anyway, your turn

[hustlertwo]

So at this point Ka-Ugh and Dense are next to each other, eh?

As a follow-up to the reach query, I would wonder then whether it's possible for me to charge, hitting with my lance, and then the charge continuing so that the mount could hit as well (meaning we end the turn adjacent to the foe).

[hustlertwo]

So, horse is down to 21 HP.

Move to E-25/F-26 on a double move. Ready action: to attack should anyone come within range.

[hustlertwo]

Still awaiting Sanity, I suppose.

[Wizibirb]

Ka-ugh

Free: Yell, "Ka-ugh want hug!"

move to q-19/o-18
Make a MTA against Oro [roll0]
If successful Make grapple check,
[roll1]
If I win,
[roll2]
[roll3]

[hustlertwo]

Well, Red Team got first blood, but I suppose this is a plus for the Blues. Since SRD lists grapple checks as being similar to melee attack rolls, I assume this means a nat 1 has the same consequences as it would on an attack?

[Wizibirb]

I do not believe so, It is my melee touch attack that is the actual 'attack' he just has to beat the grapple check, that is my interpretation I do not know though...

[Scorer]

First off, my AoO for leaving a threatened square.

Attack
[roll0]
Damage
[roll1]
If Crit
[roll2]
Damage
[roll3]

Now, though I don't like it... I'm pretty sure the opposed grapple check has no nat 1 miss, it is like skill checks... but! SRD syas the following:



Grapple Checks

Repeatedly in a grapple, you need to make opposed grapple checks against an opponent. A grapple check is like a melee attack roll.


I'm not sure if that means also a NAT 1, as far as I read there's nothing to say eitherway... In case it is not....

Opposed Grapple check... [roll4]

[TheFallenOne]

It's an opposed check, natural 1 or 20 don't apply unless I'm totally off

Though I'm rather surprised anyway that Kaugh engaged Oro, with the harpoon severly impeding his mobility it would have been easy to keep him out of close combat. But well, too late now

edit: Now ninjas are good at grappling and even give you AoOs!

[hustlertwo]

Well, in the SRD it says "A grapple check is like a melee attack roll."

Meaning the checks themselves. And presumably that means they have the same repercussions for natural 1s or 20s. May not be the case, but I haven't seen anything yet to the contrary.

Edit: Late; Breaking Bad distracted me.

[Scorer]

For now, it doesn't matter, as my opposed check was higher anyways...

[TheFallenOne]

um, wait, where is Kaugh supposed to be anyway?


move to q-19/o-18

that's no legal position, o and q are two apart :smallconfused:

[Scorer]

it should be p and q, as that's the position in which he can grapple Oro, it is a typo, just adjust, and carry on.

[hustlertwo]

I'm a bit fuzzy on how the AoO was incurred, since he has Improved Grapple, but I guess it has something to do with how he moved next to Scorer.

In any case, good show.

[TheFallenOne]

well, there are multiple positions from which he can grapple, enlarge person gives him 10 ft reach too which should apply to unarmed touch for grapple as well(or maybe not, my familiarity with grappling is limited)

[Scorer]

Given the numbers he posted I beleive it is a typo of P18-Q19, the other posibility would be halfway the glass (though it has happened before eh? :smalltongue:)

[Wildgeist]

Wildgeist Round 5

Free: 5 feet step to T18.
Free: Drop Greatsword
Move: Draw Sling.
Standard: Attack Cuddly Ka-Ugh with NON-LETHAL Damage!!!


Sling

Attack [roll0]
Damage [roll1]

Only If Critic [roll2]
Damage [roll3]

End of Turn

STATS

Wildgeist Started @U19
Wildgeist Ended @T18

HP 14/14
AC 21 (10 +3 Armor +1 Shield +4 Dexterity +2 Deflection +1 Mage Armor) T 16 FF 17



Bullets Left: 19 Carried of a total of 99 Owned

Bullets Used: 1

Rage: 0/8 Rounds

Good Hand Wielding: Sling
Off Hand Wielding: Free


Backpack
Knotted Silked Grappling Hook (+2 circumstance bonus in Use Rope and Climb DC 0)
Bullets
Sling

Belt Pouch
Acid Flask X3
Alchemist Fire X3
Tanglefoot Bag X1
Cure Light Wounds Potion X1
Magic Weapon Oil X1

[Scorer]

Oro 5th Turn

Full Round Action: Deliver Coup de Grace

Auto Crit Damage
[roll0]

This shows one life fact... Try to get hugs, and you get killed :smallfrown:

End of Turn

STATS

Oro started @ Q20-R21
Oro ended @ Q20-R21
HP 11/18
AC 18 (10 +1 Shield, +2 Dex, +4 Armor, +2 Deflection, -1 size) T 15 FF 17
98 arrows left

Hand 1 Wielding: Greatsword
Hand 2 Wielding: Greatsword

Consumables Used:
Potion Shield Faith
Potion Enlarge Person

Shield of Faith 4/10 Rounds
Enlarge Person 3/10 Rounds

Large effects:
-1 AC and attack
+2 Strenght
-2 Dexterity
Weapon damage 3d6

EDIT: Had to correct my HP in stats

[Wildgeist]

Wildgeist STATS Revised


STATS

Wildgeist Started @U19
Wildgeist Ended @T18

HP 14/14
AC 21 (10 +3 Armor +1 Shield +4 Dexterity +2 Shield of Faith +1 Mage Armor) T 16 FF 17
Shield of Faith: 5/10
Mage Armor: 4/600



Bullets Left: 9 Carried of a total of 99 Owned

Bullets Used: 1

Rage: 0/8 Rounds

Good Hand Wielding: Sling
Off Hand Wielding: Free


Backpack
Knotted Silked Grappling Hook (+2 circumstance bonus in Use Rope and Climb DC 0)
Bullets
Sling

Belt Pouch
Acid Flask X3
Alchemist Fire X3
Tanglefoot Bag X1
Cure Light Wounds Potion X1
Magic Weapon Oil X1

[TheFallenOne]

This shows one life fact... Try to get hugs, and you get killed :smallfrown:


Only if the person you're trying to hug is a big meanie and whacks you with a BFS :smalltongue:

[Wizibirb]

Oro 5th Turn

Full Round Action: Deliver Coup de Grace

Auto Crit Damage
[roll0]

This shows one life fact... Try to get hugs, and you get killed :smallfrown:

End of Turn

STATS

Oro started @ Q20-R21
Oro ended @ Q20-R21
HP 18/18
AC 18 (10 +1 Shield, +2 Dex, +4 Armor, +2 Deflection, -1 size) T 15 FF 17
98 arrows left

Hand 1 Wielding: Greatsword
Hand 2 Wielding: Greatsword

Consumables Used:
Potion Shield Faith
Potion Enlarge Person

Shield of Faith 4/10 Rounds
Enlarge Person 3/10 Rounds

Large effects:
-1 AC and attack
+2 Strenght
-2 Dexterity
Weapon damage 3d6


Ummm How are you coup de gracing me? I am not down..... and where did the AoO come from?

[TheFallenOne]

Could you first clarify where you intended to move? Would make resolving this easier

[Wizibirb]

I intended to move to the first square in which I could make a melee touch attack and I believe that was where I said I was, yes? (being large is complicated.)

[TheFallenOne]

q-19/o-18

That's six squares. There's still p between o and q

edit: well, I wait with my turn until this is cleared up

NOT Kaugh
If he moved to "the first square in which I could make a melee touch attack" and didn't close in further, he'd avoid the AoO since he wouldn't leave a threatened square. Spoilered to not give my teammate OOC advice

[Psionic Dog]

No on all counts.

Large creatures occupy a 10 x 10 ft area (4 squares) normally and have a 10ft reach, so as previously mentioned the posted location is invalid (too big).

As far as "first square in which I could make a melee touch attack," technically that would be at N17/O18, although Oro does have cover from that location. Moving closer has advantages and disadvantages of its own.



NOT Kaugh or Wildgeist
Spoilered to prevent a turn influence on either. As a reminder the Sling Attack is going to fail (Deflect arrows) so even if Kaugh does end up taking an AoO he isn't going to be down for Oro to Coup de Grace

[hustlertwo]

Yeah, the problem is 'the first square I can make a melee touch attack' isn't a legitimate move. You have to figure out what that square would be yourself. And if you make a mistake and move through threatened space, well, you join a long and storied history of Arena fighters who got knocked out by making a miscalculation or other minor sort of error or oversight. Probably happens at least once in every tournament.

Given how the post was typed, it's logical to assume it was q-19/p-18, but it's hard to be sure. Any suggestions on how to proceed?

[TheFallenOne]

Just wait for Sanity to explain what he meant, he seemed oblivious that the location he chose encompasses 6 squares, maybe he slipped by one line/column when reading the map. No idea if he meant P/Q, O/P and oversaw the glass or something else entirely. But yeah, he has to figure out himself where to move and live with any consequences

[hustlertwo]

He can't really decide that after seeing the pain he'll sustain by moving into a threatened square, however. It's more of an honor system situation at this point; he can tell us which square(s) he meant to occupy, but he can't change them to a point where the turn would be altered.

[TheFallenOne]

That's the trouble with rewinds, you often know rolls in advance, either your own which will be kept or in this case an AoO. Wouldn't be the first time someone uses the knowledge of the action failing to just not do it although obviously the intention was there beforehand. And that's just not nice gaming.

So yeah, I say he has to go to the space he intended to or, if that location is illegal(because of the glass wall for example) any other space from which he could make that failing grapple attempt at Oro

[hustlertwo]

Paging Sanity to clear up your turn so we can keep going...

[Wizibirb]

Sorry about taking so long to clear this all up guys, I spent almost all of yesterday at the hospital, (my little brother had knee surgery), and I was taking care of him until parents got home today.... I really apologize as to what went on, I will just leave my turn as is. ie me ending up on the ground, Sorry red team but I am swamped with other things.

[hustlertwo]

I assume this means the turns for the next two stand as posted, and it goes to Fallen?

And no problem, we all understand real life has to take precedence.

[TheFallenOne]

Hm, pity. Take care of your brother, we'll hopefully not get steamrolled without you.

Turn coming up shortly, working on some complicated LoE

[TheFallenOne]

SPARTA Cuss the Enraged Avenger Turn 6

Free: 5 foot step to N14
Move: Draw tanglepatch(bought by Kaugh and put in the backpack I took from him) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8083019&postcount=36)
Relocate Law Devotion to attack
Standard: Throw tanglepatch at grid intersection P19/Q20 [roll0] -2 range(35 ft)
I'm rather sure I should see that. The glass wall potentially blocking LoE is 10 ft away, the target 35. So my square corners at +15 ft should be able to get a clear line to the intersection
Relocate Law Devotion to AC

Stats

Hp: 12/12
AC: Full 27, Flat-Footed 16, Touch 26(+1 Dex, +8 Armor, +3 Shield, +2 Deflection, +3 sacred)
Javelins left: 11
Harpoons left: 13

Shield of Faith: 8/10 left
Law Devotion: 9/10 left


done

[Scorer]

What was the Reflex DC? Also, how many rounds does this last?

Reflex Save
[roll0]

[TheFallenOne]

DC 11. Lasts 10 rounds as we decided to use the RoF version

by the by, your movement is now quartered. Excellent :smalltongue:

[Scorer]

The movement lowering stacks? I'm not complaining, just asking :smalltongue:

[TheFallenOne]

SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm)


Hampered Movement

Difficult terrain, obstacles, or poor visibility can hamper movement. When movement is hampered, each square moved into usually counts as two squares, effectively reducing the distance that a character can cover in a move.

If more than one condition applies, multiply together all additional costs that apply. (This is a specific exception to the normal rule for doubling)

That's one slow barbarian now :smalltongue:

[hustlertwo]

I assume I'm good on this one. And if it makes you feel any better, Fallen, poor Ka-Ugh was probably doomed as soon as he failed that grapple, AoO or no. With his low AC and all three members of Team Blue fairly close by, his odds of having another turn were not great.

[TheFallenOne]

yeah I know. He made a bad call by engaging Oro, combined with some bad luck that was game for him. But the match isn't over, let's see how 3on2 turns out

[hustlertwo]

Oh, to be sure, it's not even close to done. I can't remember what the 4v4 was at one point...might have been 3 on 1 (or technically 2, since the 1 had an AC). And in the end, it was the handicapped team who stood triumphant (or at least, the dog did.)

[TheFallenOne]

alright, I think this is what the map looks like now with the second tanglepatch in effect. No guarantees

edit: already saw a mistake, J17 and 19 should be affected too

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1187/4v4map.gif

Reflex of Wildgeist necessary, on the third time he could maybe finally fail :smalltongue:

[Wildgeist]

Wildgeist Reflex Save [roll0]

[Wildgeist]

Hehehehe.... I guess my reflexes keep saving me for now.... Make your moves blue boys!!!

[TheFallenOne]

I'll be damned. Let's see if you can keep this up when I hit you with a harpoon, DC 14+d10 should be a bit harder :smalltongue:

[Wildgeist]

Hehehe We will see... I hope you roll some nat 1s for the next rounds or so.... :smalltongue:

[hustlertwo]

So it's Psionic's turn....round 6, right?

[TheFallenOne]

Correct. And after Psidog it's all of Team Blue in a row, uh-oh...

[hustlertwo]

Well, with two mired down by speed reducers, I'm not sure how much you have to worry about.

[TheFallenOne]

My character is BUILT to not have to worry about anything but casters or lucky attack rolls :smalltongue: My RL-DMs would probably throw books at me when I turn up with an AC 27 first level character

[hustlertwo]

Although it can only be that high for 1 minute a day. A lot of the big Arena builds would not hack it in a campaign because they're designed around brief bursts of power, not extended dungeon crawls with few rest stops.

[Psionic Dog]

Dense - Round 6

Ride to J13/K14.
Full Round action: Reload repeating crossbow.

Done.

Stats
Dense:
AC: 21 [+6 armor +1 shield +3 dex +1 size]
HP: 36/36
Precognition: 97/100 left
Prescience offensive: 18/20 left

Horse
AC: 17 (+3 armor +1 dex -1 size +4 natural)
HP: 29/30

[hustlertwo]

Train Round 6

Move to E-15/F-16. Ready action:

to move if attacked in any way, or targeted with a Tanglefoot Bag. Not sure if this is allowed with a horse, but I don't see why not offhand.

Done.

Stats:


HP: 31
AC: 21
Shield of Faith 5 round left
Position: E-15/F-16
Temp stuff (plus whatever I have on my sheet):
-400 for heavy warhorse
-100 for studded leather barding (so his AC will be 17)
-1,250 for +1 chain shirt (so my AC will be 18, minus any shield I might wear or potion I might drink)
-300something for a masterwork lance
+175 for selling masterwork chain shirt
-50 for 1 tanglefoot bags
-50 for shield of faith
-60 for 3 Alchemist's Fires
-100 for 1 tanglepatch

[hustlertwo]

And now to you, Wild, since Sanity's out.

[Wildgeist]

Wildgeist Round 6

Free: Hold Sling with off hand.
Move: Retrieve Greatsword with good hand.
Move: Move at half speed to T15.

End of turn.

STATS

Wildgeist Started @T18
Wildgeist Ended @T15

HP 14/14
AC 21 (10 +3 Armor +1 Shield +4 Dexterity +2 Deflection +1 Mage Armor) T 16 FF 17
Mage Armor: 5/600 Rounds
Shield of Faith: 6/10 Rounds


Bullets Left: 20 Carried of a total of 99 Owned

Bullets Used: 0

Rage: 0/8 Rounds

Good Hand Wielding: Greatsword
Off Hand Wielding: Greatsword


Backpack
Knotted Silked Grappling Hook (+2 circumstance bonus in Use Rope and Climb DC 0)
Bullets
Sling

Belt Pouch
Acid Flask X3
Alchemist Fire X3
Tanglefoot Bag X1
Cure Light Wounds Potion X1
Magic Weapon Oil X1

[Scorer]

Oro 6th Turn

5' Step to Q19-R20

Full Round Action: Remove Harpoon.
Heal Check
[roll0]

End of Turn

STATS

Oro started @ Q20-R21
Oro ended @ Q19-R20
HP 11/18
AC 18 (10 +1 Shield, +2 Dex, +4 Armor, +2 Deflection, -1 size) T 15 FF 17
98 arrows left

Hand 1 Wielding: Greatsword
Hand 2 Wielding: Greatsword

Consumables Used:
Potion Shield Faith
Potion Enlarge Person

Shield of Faith 5/10 Rounds
Enlarge Person 4/10 Rounds

Large effects:
-1 AC and attack
+2 Strenght
-2 Dexterity
Weapon damage 3d6

[Scorer]

Ok, so I failed the heal check, how much damage do I take?

[TheFallenOne]

"it deals damage equal to the initial damage the harpoon dealt", so 7

Also, as I said, you need two free hands to remove it

edit: and since it is my round next, please make your reflex save for entangle(Dc11) now, might affect my action

[TheFallenOne]

hm, such a nice clean shot at Wildgeist... But with one of us down I better play it safe, he may have a bad chance to beat my AC, but you never know

SPARTA Cuss the Crimson Avenger Turn 7

Free: "Evac, the'll get us from two sides!"
Move: Go to I12. This includes deliberately jumping down from M13 to L12
Jump to negate damage: [roll0] DC 15
If fail, damage: [roll1] nonlethal. DR2 applies
Free as part of move: Draw harpoon
Ready action:
Attack opponent(this includes Trains horse)

Trigger:
i gain LoE without cover
Trains horse ends movement in a square where attack modifiers(cover, reach, squeezing AC penalty) are no worse than -6
Wildgeist ends turn in LoE


Stats after I see roll results

[TheFallenOne]

Stats

Hp: 10/12
AC: Full 27, Flat-Footed 16, Touch 26(+1 Dex, +8 Armor, +3 Shield, +2 Deflection, +3 sacred)
Javelins left: 11
Harpoons left: 13

Shield of Faith: 7/10 left
Law Devotion: 8/10 left


done

[Psionic Dog]

Dense - Round 7

Ride up the stairs to L13/M14.

Full Attack Rapid Shot on Oro.
[roll0] [roll1]
[roll2] [roll3] <<A Crit!

[roll4] [roll5]

((Since the map specifically mentions a +1 higher ground bonus does that apply to ranged attacks too? If so add +1 to attack rolls))

EDIT:Lets see, no cover from that angle, an enlarged size to offset any AC buff potions... I believe those are both hits even without higher ground.

If Bolt #1 drops Oro I'd like to redirect the second shot at my second favorite target, Train's horse.

Continue ride action to return back to J13/K14.

Done

Stats
AC: 21 [+6 armor +1 shield +3 dex +1 size]
HP: 36/36
Precognition: 97/100 left
Prescience offensive: 18/20 left

Horse
AC: 17 (+3 armor +1 dex -1 size +4 natural)
HP: 29/30

[TheFallenOne]

I'm pretty sure he does have cover if we view it 3-dimensionally because of the glass wall in 16/17.
I guess you should get +1 for the elevation as the map doesn't specify it's the usual higher ground melee bonus as per RAW, but instead gives a glat out +1

You'd also get another +2 if he fails his reflex save and ends up entangled.

Either way, that crit confirms, so the teams are on equal ground again. Well done

[Psionic Dog]

No, I already checked that wall. No cover from that.
The wall's only 10ft tall, and the green platform is 20ft up. At that angle not even the ground Oro's standing on has cover, much less the upper half of the enlarged humanoid.

[TheFallenOne]

whoa damn, I thought those were only 10 feet too because the magic wall framing the platform is 10 ft in all places.

That also means I take d6 more falling damage :smalleek: Since it was totally my mistake I wouldn't get a rewind

additional lethal falling damage [roll0]

[Psionic Dog]

Dense
Free Speech: "Need me to bring you a potion?"

[hustlertwo]

So, why does DR apply to falling damage? I can't find anything about it one way or the other from what I've seen, and don't know of precedent on the matter.

And sadly, I do believe Oro goes unconscious from bolt 1. So unless you want to use the second one to insure his demise instead of merely knocking him out, I think that would be a hit on the horse.

[Scorer]

Ok then adjust my turn having dropped my greatsword

Reflex Save
[roll0]

[hustlertwo]

So, why does DR apply to falling damage? I can't find anything about it one way or the other from what I've seen, and don't know of precedent on the matter.

And sadly, I do believe Oro goes unconscious from bolt 1. So unless you want to use the second one to insure his demise instead of merely knocking him out, I think that would be a hit on the horse.

I'll need to know whether you do or not, so I can resolve my readied action.

[Scorer]

Oh... posted without seeing the other posts... yep, I'm down... Well, took the other L2 guy, so I guess I did enough :smalltongue:

Come on Blue Team, we rock!

[TheFallenOne]

I don't see why DR2/adamantine shouldn't work against falling damage. It's no spell, spell-like or supernatural ability, the things that normally bypass DR

And yes, Oro goes down, though still alive. I think you can resolve your readied action, "If Bolt #1 drops Oro I'd like to redirect the second shot at my second favorite target, Train's horse." is a pretty clear announcement

[hustlertwo]

Yes, but it also tends to only mention weapons and natural attacks as being what it reduces. I'm not sure where untyped damage of this nature falls. It doesn't specify either way, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Anyhow, when Psionic fires from his midpoint, Train moves in response to J-13/K-14.

AoOs on Psionic for firing a ranged weapon where I threaten:

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]

[TheFallenOne]

You sure that works? Problem here is that you readied an action, but it's the horse taking it, and the actions of rider and mount are separate. So I guess the question boils down to whether or not you can order your mount to ready an action

Anyway, that move is impossible because Psidog returned to J13/K14 himself

"
Continue ride action to return back to J13/K14."

as for DR, no idea. To be honest, doesn't matter much either way, one hit from you or Wildgeist takes me down, 2 HP give or take

[hustlertwo]

I admit to being unsure about readying the horse's move action, but I can't see why it wouldn't work. Moreover, I just wanted to try it now and get a ruling, since I am probably going to do the mounted thing with Train (does give him higher move, a dizzyingly high number of attacks in a full round attack, and an increased threaten area) and want to explore stuff like this in an exhibition setting first.

As for the move thing, he would bounce off of me attempting to move back, presumably. My readied action interrupts and precedes the action that causes it, namely the ranged attack from the top of the platform. There's no reason his move being incomplete would change that, unless it is specifically listed as doing so somewhere.

Oh, and if all this goes through, it would be your turn again Fallen, unless you want to keep it as is, in which case it goes to Wildgeist. If not, then I'll take my turn.

[TheFallenOne]

Oh, right, your readied action is before he moves back. Though in this case I believe Psidog would be able to revise his partial move

Getting an official ruling on that readied action stuff - well, I guess we'll have to see what High Refs Scorer and Psidog think of the matter. Allowing the horse to ready separate actions(so that both rider and mount could have a readied action) could become complicated, what happens to the riders initiative if his horses action triggers, but not his, what happens if both actions are triggered, but at different times? Rider and mount are supposed to share an initiative after all

[Scorer]

*Puts Hi Ref hat*

I would say the horse is able to ready an action as normal, however I think the issue would be how character can comunicate such order to the horse.

Further, the readying of the horse would leave the rider able to do his own ready action.

That's my opinion, however, I'm not good at reffing stuff... :smallredface:

[hustlertwo]

I saw it more as me readying an action to have the horse move. The horse moving would then happen aside from that. But I may be on shaky ground with that argument.

And I don't think the horse can ready an action itself. Otherwise it might end up in a different place on the initiative order than the rider. And since technically mounts don't even exist on the init order (as far as I know), that wouldn't work.

And yes, Psionic can probably revise his move with whatever would be left (which I guess can only add up to the same amount he used to get to that spot, so that the halfway place remained the same). And if not, wouldn't be that bad on him, since bumping into me might incur AoOs but neither I or my horse would be able to use them, having expended our 1 AoO a round on the ranged attack.

[Psionic Dog]

I think I have to agree with hustlertwo on this one.

It's better to say you can direct a mount to act on your own readied action (provided the mount has a move/standard action left) than to say you command your mount to ready. Having your mount ready actions independent of the rider is just a problem waiting to happen.

So... First attack hits, second misses.


Rewind back to Dense after Horse&Train act.

Horse forfeits remainder of move action.
[roll0] DC 15 to get horse to attack.

[roll1] (including +1 high ground bonus)
[roll2]

Done

Stats
AC: 21 [+6 armor +1 shield +3 dex +1 size]
HP: 31/36
Precognition: 94/100 left
Prescience offensive: 15/20 left

Horse
AC: 17 (+3 armor +1 dex -1 size +4 natural)
HP: 29/30

[TheFallenOne]

I saw it more as me readying an action to have the horse move. The horse moving would then happen aside from that. But I may be on shaky ground with that argument.

Well, that one pretty sure doesn't work. The horse would take a move action by using your standard action(and thus could potentially make 3 in one turn). If this is supposed to work, it has to be the horse readying an action

edit. Ref-ninjad

Now that it's agreed to be legal, I believe Trains movement triggered my own readied action, hold on a second

edit2: for purposes of LoE I need to know the elevation of the stair squares. All +10 or are the J and K ones different from each other?

[Scorer]

Told you I'm not good at reffing :smallredface:

[hustlertwo]

No, like Psionic said, it would only work if the horse had the action left to take. And it absolutely can't work with horses readying independently, for the reason I just mentioned. If it doesn't work as I did it, then we'd have to assume it simply isn't possible at all.

[TheFallenOne]

Fine with me. After all I get to harpoon your horse with a readied action when you move up :smalltongue: just need to know the elevation of the J and K stair squares to resolve it

[hustlertwo]

10 seems logical, but I'm not sure how stair height goes. It wouldn't change from J to K, though; pretty sure stairs don't work that way. Probably goes more like the 'sloped' roof of buildings in the Dawn Arena.

[TheFallenOne]

um, Hustler, as much as I want to harpoon you, your horses movement isn't enough to get there

F14/G15 - 1
G14/H14 - 2(squeezing)
H14/i14 - 2
I14/j14 - 4(squeezing+stairs)
J13/K14 - 2(stairs)
= 11

[hustlertwo]

Didn't think squeezing applied to the first spot on the stairs, but you might be right. Saw the wall as being two squares long and assumed that would be the only time it affected me.

[TheFallenOne]

Well, you can't be in I13/J14 because the the I13/I14 wall, so you're still squeezing. I guess you'll have to redo your readied action or we can just retroactively allow you tu use ride for Spur Mount, you had your own move action left anyway

[hustlertwo]

I'll leave that up to you and Psionic, since you're the ones affected. If we do a rewind, then instead I'll probably move 50 feet straight down the line towards Wildgeist, ending in P-something I believe. Probably end up taking Point Blank damage, but it's 1 extra damage to spur anyhow, so the difference is minimal. Besides, either way, the horse is 1 hit away from death, because as near as I can tell there's nowhere I could move to break LoE, given my size.

[TheFallenOne]

well it's fine with me either way, so it's up to Psidog

[Wildgeist]

Damn.... I thought it was my turn already... :smalltongue: Forget all that and I wait till it's decided.:smallbiggrin:

Wildgeist Round 7

Move: Store Sling in Backpack.
Move: Move 30 feet (10 of them at half speed in stairs) to O14.
Free: While moving, grab Greatsword with both hands.


STATS
Wildgeist Started @T15
Wildgeist Ended @O14

HP 14/14
AC 21 (10 +3 Armor +1 Shield +4 Dexterity +1 Mage Armor) T 16 FF 17
Shield of Faith: 7/10 Rounds
Mage Armor: 6/600 Rounds


Bullets Left: 20 Carried of a total of 99 Owned

Bullets Used: 0

Rage: 0/8 Rounds

Good Hand Wielding: Greatsword
Off Hand Wielding: Greatsword


Backpack
Knotted Silked Grappling Hook (+2 circumstance bonus in Use Rope and Climb DC 0)
Bullets
Sling

Belt Pouch
Acid Flask X3
Alchemist Fire X3
Tanglefoot Bag: X1
Cure Light Wounds Potion X1
Magic Weapon Oil: X1



End of Turn

[Psionic Dog]

I suppose Train is now in P-15 Q-16.

While I wouldn't argue with "Ready action to spur mount into moving if..." as a readied action, Spur Mount is a move action that can't exactly be tacked on as an after thougth.

Besides, hustlertwo just declared is preference to move east if he couldn't reach J/K normally.

Dense - Round 7 - Alternate ending #2
(refunds self 5 hp)

After firing mount and rider continue moving to end at N13/O14.
[roll0] DC 15

Done

Stats
AC: 21 [+6 armor +1 shield +3 dex +1 size]
HP: 36/36
Precognition: 94/100 left
Prescience offensive: 15/20 left

Horse
AC: 17 (+3 armor +1 dex -1 size +4 natural)
HP: 29/30

[hustlertwo]

Now it's your go, Wild.

New turn order:

Sparta Cuss
Train
Dense
Wildgeist

Scorer can roll stabilization checks whenever, I'd say. No need to do it in order. Ka-Ugh's dead, so his impact on the match from here on will likely be minimal.

[Wildgeist]

Wildgeist Round 7

Free: Talk to Train: Cover my back from Dense!!! I'll manage that Warforge.
Move: Store Sling in Backpack.
Move: Move 30 feet (10 of them at half speed in stairs) to R13.
Free: While moving, grab Greatsword with both hands.


STATS
Wildgeist Started @T15
Wildgeist Ended @R13

HP 14/14
AC 21 (10 +3 Armor +1 Shield +4 Dexterity +2 Shield of Faith +1 Mage Armor) T 16 FF 17
Shield of Faith: 7/10 Rounds
Mage Armor: 6/600 Rounds


Bullets Left: 20 Carried of a total of 99 Owned

Bullets Used: 0

Rage: 0/8 Rounds

Good Hand Wielding: Greatsword
Off Hand Wielding: Greatsword


Backpack
Knotted Silked Grappling Hook (+2 circumstance bonus in Use Rope and Climb DC 0)
Bullets
Sling

Belt Pouch
Acid Flask X3
Alchemist Fire X3
Tanglefoot Bag: X1
Cure Light Wounds Potion X1
Magic Weapon Oil: X1



End of Turn

[TheFallenOne]

Now it's your go, Wild.

New turn order:

Sparta Cuss
Train
Dense
Wildgeist

Scorer can roll stabilization checks whenever, I'd say. No need to do it in order. Ka-Ugh's dead, so his impact on the match from here on will likely be minimal.

why should you go before Dense? He triggered your readied action, so Dense and Train have the same initiative now. In a tie, higher modifier goes first, so the order shouldn't have changed, should it?

Turn coming up in a moment

[TheFallenOne]

SPARTA Cuss, Turn 8

Free to Wildgeist: "I expected we'd confront each other, Wild One. Let's see if you can live up to the promise you just made."
Free to Dense: "Don't bother, it will only have halve effect on me anyway, won't make a difference at the moment"
Free: Shift harpoon to mouth
Move: Go to J12
Free as part of move: Draw another harpoon
Ready action:

Throw harpoon. Trigger:
I gain LoS on enemy without cover and range penalty
enemy is about to enter adjacent square
Wildheist ends in LoE


Stats

Hp: 5/12
AC: Full 24, Flat-Footed 13, Touch 23(+1 Dex, +8 Armor, +3 Shield, +2 Deflection)
Javelins left: 11
Harpoons left: 14

Shield of Faith: 6/10 left
Law Devotion: 7/10 left


done

[hustlertwo]

why should you go before Dense? He triggered your readied action, so Dense and Train have the same initiative now. In a tie, higher modifier goes first, so the order shouldn't have changed, should it?

Turn coming up in a moment

Nope. My initiative becomes basically just above his, regardless of modifier. If he was 17, I'd be 17.1. It's why readied actions are so powerful in a one on one fight. Somewhat less so in this sort of situation, however, since some people (like you) can go twice before you get your turn again.