A little help? Please?

[Silvana]

I have recently in game had a sit down disscussion with my Cleric she is under Avandra I told her that she was not acting it a Clerical manner befiting her Goddess with some of her actions.

This Charater has run away from home sent a letter to her family stating that I will love you only if you respect my choices after find out her parents had aranged a marrige for her her didn't try and talk to her family about it at all just fled. Her Family is Merchants she is about 13 years old.

And she has to be the most vengful, spitful child I have ever witnessed...She will run around the battle field tending ALL of the wounded including the monsters or creaters or humans attacking she doesn't discriminate but she will be to obessed with this self imposted task to help that she has nearly gotten herself killed. She was so angy at her friend for saving her life and killing the moster about to finish her off that she refused to heal him as he was bleeding to death. I tried to nicely explain that that doesn't make any sense when she went to a Seer and she thought about it. Then the next day the Play came up to me telling me she had done her homework and that I was wrong that she is following the belief the Avandra perfectly because shes forging her own path and giving things the ablity to change.

I don't know what to do I've attempted to make her see that wasting her spells on things that wish you only harm is silly and my words don't seem to affect her at all the party wants nothing to do with her at this point more then sure that they would be better off bleeding to death then being stab in their sleep by something she 'helped'.

I would like to have something to bounce some ideas off of.

[The Glyphstone]

You've got your problems mixed up, from what it sounds like. Her behavior could very well fit for a Cleric of Avandra. The problem is that her character is not a team player/party member. You need to explain that OOC - she's not RPing poorly, her RP is incompatible with a party dynamic, and either the RP or the character need to change.

[AslanCross]

Agreed, the problem is that she needs to help the party. The game (I assume this is 4E) is balanced for players to mostly spend their resources and powers on themselves, so using it on monsters is going to make things difficult.

Otherwise I think the RP is fine, though I'm going to hazard a guess that the player has RL issues with parents. (It also kind of reminds me of the old "I'm Chaotic Neutral, I can do whatever I want to" mentality.)

[Silvana]

Oh and lates gaming session she keeped talking about denouncing her bliefs for forsaking them for something else but she wouldn't elaborate.

[Tinydwarfman]

I don't understand - Why is she angry at a friend for killing a monster that was about to kill her? And then not healing teammates? While she heals monsters? Isn't Avandra the goddess of luck and freedom? Why is she adventuring with the party? I'm so confused... :smallfrown:

[Silvana]

And I have before gaming a few times brought up both the problems of metta gaming and lack of team work. The age group is 13-16 year old kids that have been traveling together for 2 months and have stopped a hell portal from opening and they still don't even consider each other friends?
I can understand the honstility in some directions but not all and then there are the lines that seem to invibly devide them like the Rogue-things hang out with the Rogue-things and the fighters hang out with the fighters that kinda stuff.

[Silvana]

I don't understand - Why is she angry at a friend for killing a monster that was about to kill her? And then not healing teammates? While she heals monsters? Isn't Avandra the goddess of luck and freedom? Why is she adventuring with the party? I'm so confused... :smallfrown:

I have no idea as to why she is healing enemys and not helping her wounded team mate(Bask my fighter) who save her...honeslty makes no sence to me...she and the party came together when a group of monsters attached her familys caravan and then found word that they wanted someone to take care of the problem which they did.

[PinkysBrain]

I'd simply tell her to knock it off or else ...

Though you seem to have the opinion that as long as in character behaviour can be justified in game it's all good ... I don't think that's a great idea, but if that's really how you want to play it make it clear before the next session that it goes for everyone. That they are free to treat her character as they feel their character would without metagame concerns for party integrity.

PS. I should make it clear that I think it's a really bad idea, but it's not worse then letting her go on as she is doing now ... maybe if the rest of them throw her character a blanket party (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCNqKrX1sx8) she will get the idea.

[Mystic Muse]

Tell her that The party is frustrated with the character. Even though it might make sense from an RP perspective that RP is making life difficult for the players and either her character needs to change or she needs to leave.

[Ranos]

I dunno, it sounds like we're not getting everything. For example, if the monster had surrendered, thrown its weapon away or whatever, and you still killed it in cold blood, then yeah, I could see it pissing her off mightily.

Nevertheless, while it is her right to roleplay her character, it is your right to roleplay yours. If your fighter doesn't want to put up with a liability like her, he can just boot her from the group. Assuming the rest of the party agrees, of course. If they don't, suck it up.

[Silvana]

I'd simply tell her to knock it off or else ...

Though you seem to have the opinion that as long as in character behaviour can be justified in game it's all good ... I don't think that's a great idea, but if that's really how you want to play it make it clear before the next session that it goes for everyone. That they are free to treat her character as they feel their character would without metagame concerns for party integrity.

PS. I should make it clear that I think it's a really bad idea, but it's not worse then letting her go on as she is doing now.

My thoughts on how to get her to stop are simple I have let the behavior go on without much fuss untill now, but I can't deal with it anymore yes I do believe that if things are justifiable then they are okay, but they are no longer easy to deal with it is causing to much conflict and she doesn't even seem to care that she is hurting the people protecting her.

As a note the player is not an easy one to deal with either she has HER ideas on the way things should be and if they aren't right she throw a fit or stops playing. She won't even listen to simple reason. >.< I try so hard not to favor anyone and her constent crying makes some others tense.

[Tinydwarfman]

Tell her that The party is frustrated with the character. Even though it might make sense from an RP perspective that RP is making life difficult for the players and either her character needs to change or she needs to leave.

If it did make sense from an RP perspective I`d say deal with it in character, but it doesn't! (unless Avandra is way different than I think she is.)

[Silvana]

I dunno, it sounds like we're not getting everything. For example, if the monster had surrendered, thrown its weapon away or whatever, and you still killed it in cold blood, then yeah, I could see it pissing her off mightily.


There hasn't been an instence where someone has continued to fight unarmed combatence they where either slightly injured and still fighting or K.O. and bleeding to death.

She was attacked from the right with a cross bow bolt then the creature turned and began attacking Bask who managed to kill it with a stab to the heart. After she turned to see who fired the bolt she started yelling at Bask not to kill it while it was attacking him. He was badly hurt and all she did was yell at him.

[Nero24200]

Not too familier with Avandaur, so can't really comment there, but I do feel you should discuss this with the player. She's definately not playing as a "Team Player". As someone who's had to put up with quite a few in the past, I know how aggrevating they can be.

In fact, I've had to put up with one very recently (generally going out her way to help enemies, buff herself but not the rest of the party depites having plenty of buffs avaliable, stealing, deception, and perfoming actions that she knows the rest of the party wouldn't approve of, such as aiding evil outsiders or reviving fallen enemies for no real reason when we're not there).

Nip this issue in the bud while you can. Talk to the player, talk to the DM, talk to the other players, make your feelings very clear. Don't let this become a long-term problem or you'll regret it.

[Tinydwarfman]

There hasn't been an instence where someone has continued to fight unarmed combatence they where either slightly injured and still fighting or K.O. and bleeding to death.

She was attacked from the right with a cross bow bolt then the creature turned and began attacking Bask who managed to kill it with a stab to the heart. After she turned to see who fired the bolt she started yelling at Bask not to kill it while it was attacking him. He was badly hurt and all she did was yell at him.

Could you clarify the first sentence?

Did she ever explain why she didn't want him to kill it?

[Silvana]

If it did make sense from an RP perspective I`d say deal with it in character, but it doesn't! (unless Avandra is way different than I think she is.)


Avandra
Good
The god of change, Avandra delights in freedom, trade, travel, adventure, and the frontier. She is also viwed as a god of luck.
Her commandments...
Luck favors the bold. Take your fate into your own hands, and Avandra smils upon you.
Strike back against those who would rob you of your freedom and urge others to fight for their own liberty.
Change is inevitable, but it takes the work of the faithful to ensure that change is for the better.
(from 4.0)

[Tinydwarfman]

Hey we get our info from the same site! Google FTW!

[Silvana]

Could you clarify the first sentence?

Did she ever explain why she didn't want him to kill it?

No she didn't want Bask to kill it.

[Silvana]

Hey we get our info from the same site! Google FTW!

I have the book lol...

[Tinydwarfman]

No she didn't want Bask to kill it.

There was absolutely no reason she didn't want him to kill it? Is she normally a pacifist? Did she listen to your explanation that it was killing you?

[Silvana]

There was absolutely no reason she didn't want him to kill it? Is she normally a pacifist? Did she listen to your explanation that it was killing you?

Nope and Bask's player as well as a few other player out right said that it was a retarded thing to do. Save something that wants to murder you. From what she told me shes trying to give them the chance to change by being nice. While she is spitful and vendictive towards all the people helping her.

[Silvana]

Also my monk says "Moo I'm a puppy." and "Would it be way too mean/evil to attempt to close some of her chakras to keep her from being able to channel healing abilities until she learns her lesson?"

[elonin]

I personally don't see why everyone here is so focused on tactical elements. Sounds like you would happier playing a strategy game rather than a role playing game. I'd have her in my group if I were running and she were close to my location.

[Silvana]

Its not that I would perfer a different gaming problem I was just asking as a DM how to handle a stiuation that will mostly be ending with a charater being killed via her own stupidity or pking.
I have a problem as a DM people that are just players in my world trying to make my world theirs and whinning like children when they don't get their way. And I was trying to see if it was agreeable via others opinions of my situation. I didn't want to consult my game group on the matter for the fact that this player has quite the Princess complex and it causes unnessary friction between her and her boyfriend whenever we attempt to disscuss such things.

[Yuki Akuma]

I personally don't see why everyone here is so focused on tactical elements. Sounds like you would happier playing a strategy game rather than a role playing game. I'd have her in my group if I were running and she were close to my location.

You'd play with someone who helps the enemy rather than her so-called friends? Why would someone even be adventuring if they're just going to help the enemy? Why wouldn't her 'comrades' turn on her after she appears to be a traitor? How is this good roleplaying at all?

[Silvana]

You'd play with someone who helps the enemy rather than her so-called friends? Why would someone even be adventuring if they're just going to help the enemy? Why wouldn't her 'comrades' turn on her after she appears to be a traitor? How is this good roleplaying at all?

True true I'm not a firm beliver in the team work nonsence cause sometimes things are better handle alone and maybe sometimes saving an enemy from the brink of death is the right thing to do but to forsake your friendships or even just partnerships with others around you isn't something that make sence to me. For we have had in other games had similar problems.

[Roderick_BR]

I'd say she got her priorities mixed up. She's willing to heal a monster trying to kill her, but if a teammate kills a monster, she refuses to heal him? I could see she giving an earful about violence and the like, refusing to talk to him after healing him, but refusing to heal him? Am I missing something here?

[Apollo1776]

Okay, so I'm not a DM, but I'm a hardcore minmaxer.

I tried playing a relatively pacifistic priest once. He got killed (but only for failing three listen checks in a row very terribly while a hitman crept up on him). One thing I learned from that is pacifists are very hard to play. Incredibly hard.

There are pacifists in the sense they wish to do no one any harm, but it just doesn't fit well into the D&D realm of things. There's fighting, and there's lots of it. You want to talk your way out of things go play vampires. Anyway... An extremist like this would be quite easy to take care of.

Quit trying to force her to change how she wants to play her character. I realize what she's doing is ridiculous, but let the real mechanics of the story take care of it for you. What I'm proposing is to kill her character. Not blatantly, but subtly so that no one will know your real aim was to show her that characters must be able to fight if they're going to go rescue the world. So when they're sleeping in an inn somewhere have some assassins come and try to kill the party. If she continues to play her character like she is then chances are her character will die.

A second option is to implant thoughts into the other character's heads. What alignment are they and what is their deity? It could be very possible that by giving aid to the enemy she could be considered an enemy herself and they could slay her in the name of justice or whatever else.

A more comical approach could be to send undead after them. When she tries to heal them they would be injured more. At least, that would work in 3.5, I'm not familiar with 4.0.

Also, you could change her alignment. By not discriminating between light and dark she is choosing a neutral path. If she insists on obeying the laws you could move her one step towards lawful. If the god she follows is CG she will lose her powers. But if she refuses to heal an ally and only heals an enemy (as stated in the above post), then you could even switch her alignment to evil. She can bitch all she wants, but just put your foot down.

Your campaign, you're the DM. Players don't decide what happens, you do.

[Silvana]

Thank you Apollo1776 I know that no matter what couse I take with her she is most likely going to end up dead I haven't tried to force her into changing just told her when she asked what was wrong...most of my players are upset by it and have made much mention of it out of game and a few in game references...I hate to kill off charaters but thats what her fate will lead to if she doesn't change her ways.

I have also been planing out a dungeon most of today what will incorporated the temptation of sins and the players greatest fears so I will see if that changes anything I don't know.
We wont be gaming this week because one of my players is visiting his father.

[Draz74]

In 4e spirit, I'd give this Cleric an at-will healing power that stabilizes enemies (but doesn't help them fight your allies anymore once they're beaten). It could even be something overpowered that you can use on an enemy before they actually go down, that pre-emptively protects them from death. (It doesn't sound like the player is the type to abuse loopholes and use that latter useful function on her allies.)

Be very secretive about the actual mechanics of this ability, so that you can fudge it a lot as the situation requires. But make it clear that, in general, using it will keep the character's enemies from dying in a fight, without making the fight harder to win (other than the Cleric's wasted actions).

That way, this character can go on being a unique personality and an interesting interpretation of Avandra; but if she ever uses her actual healing powers on enemies, her allies will be all the more justified in accusing her of sabotaging their efforts (and endangering their lives).

[AslanCross]

Maybe you could throw her one or two monsters that get "converted" when she heals them or prevents them from dying just to reward her RPing, but ultimately she's going to have to wise up because there are some people who are just irredeemably evil.

[Toliudar]

This sounds like a problem that will sort itself out. If she's actively working against the best interests of the group, it won't be hard for the rest of the group to take a giant step back away from helping the next time she imperils herself again. Then, against an opponent willing to use lethal force, the character will either die or change her perspective. Either way, the player has an opportunity to re-evaluate how team-based RP happens - especially in a 4E context.