(3.5 DnD) Stat Advice!

[AtwasAwamps]

Okay, so...here is my current "dilemma":

I have rolled stats for an Eberron game that a friend of mine is starting up. I would like to play a Psychic Warrior tripper. We are starting at level 2 and I'd like to be able to do my shtick fairly close to right off the bat. I will be playing a human for the extra skill points and feat.

My rolled stats are: 18 18 17 16 12 10

Now, the basis of a tripper build involves combat expertise and improved trip. Hence, I will need to put one of the high numbers into int...let's say the 16.

Strength should get 18, as I'm a fighter with a two handed weapon (so there's that right there!). Now here's where I reach a quandary:

My remaining scores are 18, 17, 12, 10. To make combat reflexes useful, I would have to drop one of the higher scores (18/17) into dexterity. This leaves me with (high score), 12, 10. Right now, I am thinking of putting the high score into con, the 12 into wis, and the 10 into cha. This, however, causes a problem...it cripples my manifesting ability. This, to me, seems silly and honestly I feel like perhaps I should just play NOT a psychic warrior for that type of thing (but I'd like to play a psychic warrior just for the sake of the fanciness).

Do I dump con and pump up wis? Do I dump dex and deal with not having the control I want? I'm really not sure!

Alternative: I have also been considering asking the DM to approve "Hidden Talent" for this character so that I can be psionic, but instead start the build with two levels of wolf totem barbarian for a free improved trip, allowing me to dump int. For level 2, my feats would consist of Hidden Talent and Combat Reflexes, with improved trip granted for free at level two. After this, I would take levels in psychic warrior, possibly going into Warmind or Slayer later.

What's the better option, here?

[Dusk Eclipse]

ok STR 18
DEX 17
CON 12
INT 16
CHA 10
WIS 18

or maybe switch dex and wis (you only need 16 to get max psionic warrior powers)

[AtwasAwamps]

ok STR 18
DEX 17
CON 12
INT 16
CHA 10
WIS 18

or maybe switch dex and wis (you only need 16 to get max psionic warrior powers)

Fair enough. So the hit to con is worth it? Makes sense, now that I think about it...I'll be able to defend myself fairly decently, after all.

Thanks! I'll probably drop the 18 in dex over wis for the bonus opp. attack. I don't need THAT much wis.

[Tinydwarfman]

I'd put 12 into INT and then pump it at 4th level. You won't be a decent tripper until then anyway. Just ask your DM if you can get the feat before you can use it. Even if you can't, there are plenty of other feats you need before then.

[AtwasAwamps]

I'd put 12 into INT and then pump it at 4th level. You won't be a decent tripper until then anyway. Just ask your DM if you can get the feat before you can use it. Even if you can't, there are plenty of other feats you need before then.

Such as? (Honestly, I'm not sure what I need before getting the whole tripping mechanic in place).

I should note that I'm trying not to get too fancy, as the DM is fairly new at her job. So things like Jotunbrud are out just because I think they'd confuse her.

[Tinydwarfman]

EWP: spiked chain is a must, Dodge-Mobility-Sidestep for defense, Combat reflexes, Deft Opportunist, Hold the line, and Standstill (if you can't trip them) are what I can think of now, and you can still take some of those nice psionic feats. Post Imp.Trip, you gain access to tons more, but I'm sure you can fill up those 5 feat slots.

I'd suggest:
STR 18
DEX 18
CON 16
INT 12 (+1 at 4th)
CHA 10
WIS 17

[AtwasAwamps]

EWP: spiked chain is a must, Dodge-Mobility-Sidestep for defense, Combat reflexes, Deft Opportunist, Hold the line, and Standstill (if you can't trip them) are what I can think of now, and you can still take some of those nice psionic feats. Post Imp.Trip, you gain access to tons more, but I'm sure you can fill up those 5 feat slots.

I disagree with EWP: Spiked Chain...you can always take a 5-foot-step and you can still threaten opponents with spiked gauntlets if they get close to you somehow. With a psychic warrior build, I can have Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, and Improved Trip at level 1. Level 2, I can grab a fighter or psionic feat...something like Stand Still would not be amiss, to deal with beasties right from the get go (but I don't know if that counts as a fighter feat), so instead something like Deft Opportunist or Hold the Line might be fine.

As for Dodge/Mobility/Sidestep...yeah, not bad, but I'm not going to optimize my defense with a rough feat chain before getting my offensive combo/lockdown build into place, especially since psychic warriors have quite a decent power set for defending themselves.

So in short, I appreciate your advice, but disagree with it. If I can take improved trip by level one, I have a solid tripper foundation by level two and can begin choosing standard and bonus feats to further help me out.

[Tinydwarfman]

I disagree with EWP: Spiked Chain...you can always take a 5-foot-step and you can still threaten opponents with spiked gauntlets if they get close to you somehow. With a psychic warrior build, I can have Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, and Improved Trip at level 1. Level 2, I can grab a fighter or psionic feat...something like Stand Still would not be amiss, to deal with beasties right from the get go (but I don't know if that counts as a fighter feat), so instead something like Deft Opportunist or Hold the Line might be fine.

As for Dodge/Mobility/Sidestep...yeah, not bad, but I'm not going to optimize my defense with a rough feat chain before getting my offensive combo/lockdown build into place, especially since psychic warriors have quite a decent power set for defending themselves.

So in short, I appreciate your advice, but disagree with it. If I can take improved trip by level one, I have a solid tripper foundation by level two and can begin choosing standard and bonus feats to further help me out.

Spiked Chain really comes into it's own when you increase in size categories (As you should be doing if you are a tripper) and most (3) DM's I know wouldn't let you attack with your glaive when you threaten w/ spiked gauntlets. Also, I take it you're starting at lvl 1? hmm, no half-minotaur for you then...

Nevermind! I strongly recommend Half-Minotaur of your DM will allow it.

[AtwasAwamps]

(3) DM's I know wouldn't let you attack with your glaive when you threaten w/ spiked gauntlets. Also, I take it you're starting at lvl 1? hmm, no half-minotaur for you then...

Nevermind! I strongly recommend Half-Minotaur of your DM will allow it.

I know the DM won't allow Half-Minotaur, and re: spiked gauntlets, not sure why they wouldn't, considering its a totally legitimate action. Of course, I'll check with my DM about that.

[Tinydwarfman]

Because you're exploiting a technicality in RAW. Sure you can go buy a candle of invocation and wish-loop your way to victory, but do you? Use common sense. Why would wearing spiked gauntlet allow you to attack a someone next to you with a longspear?

[AtwasAwamps]

Because you're exploiting a technicality in RAW. Sure you can go buy a candle of invocation and wish-loop your way to victory, but do you?

Eh. I don't really see it as an exploit. It's really not hard to picture someone letting go of their weapon with one hand to bash someone in the face and by errata'd rules, it's a free action to take one hand off your weapon and do something with it as complicated as somatic gestures for a spell. Punches are easier.

Punching Someone In the Face =/= Wish Loop.

Plus, honestly, I can pretty much still five foot step wherever.

[Tinydwarfman]

Eh. I don't really see it as an exploit. It's really not hard to picture someone letting go of their weapon with one hand to bash someone in the face and by errata'd rules, it's a free action to take one hand off your weapon and do something with it as complicated as somatic gestures for a spell. Punches are easier.

Punching Someone In the Face =/= Wish Loop.

Plus, honestly, I can pretty much still five foot step wherever.

But I thought the whole reason you wanted it was so that you could trip people next to you. Most people say "well I'm threatening them, so I can attack them with any of my weapons".

[AtwasAwamps]

But I thought the whole reason you wanted it was so that you could trip people next to you. Most people say "well I'm threatening them, so I can attack them with any of my weapons".

I can trip someone by punching them hard enough in the face. In my brain, it works and its glorious.

KAPOW!
::watches orc keel over gently::

Or even better, reach out and push.

::shove::
Haha! ::point and laugh::

[Sinfire Titan]

Hold up, why do you need the Wis at 18?

[Tinydwarfman]

I can trip someone by punching them hard enough in the face. In my brain, it works and its glorious.

KAPOW!
::watches orc keel over gently::

Or even better, reach out and push.

::shove::
Haha! ::point and laugh::

Oooh, you can use Knock-down, good point.


Hold up, why do you need the Wis at 18?
You can always use more PP as a psywar.

[AtwasAwamps]

Hold up, why do you need the Wis at 18?

I don't? I want it at at least 16. My stats are 18 18 17 16 12 10. trying to find a way to set that up so I can manifest and take I.Trip at level 1.

EDIT: I'd personally put the 18 in dex, and either boost wis to 18 as I level, or just focus on pushing up con.

[Sinfire Titan]

Oooh, you can use Knock-down, good point.


You can always use more PP as a psywar.

Didn't see PsiWar in the mix, ok. So it is justified.

[Tinydwarfman]

I don't? I want it at at least 16. My stats are 18 18 17 16 12 10. trying to find a way to set that up so I can manifest and take I.Trip at level 1.

EDIT: I'd personally put the 18 in dex, and either boost wis to 18 as I level, or just focus on pushing up con.

I'd pump STR as you level, I find it more useful than defensive stats (like DEX and CON) and you usually won't get more than 4 AoO's ina round anyway, at least until you get Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit.

[Person_Man]

My suggestion:

Str 18
Dex 17
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 18
Cha 10

Potential feats: Combat Reflexes, Quickdraw, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Ritiik), Two Weapon Fighting.

When it is not your turn Quickdraw a glaive, and Trip anyone who approaches you. You won't get a follow up attack from Improved Trip, but who cares? Your goal is simply to keep them from attacking you. Alternatively you can use a Pincer Staff (Underdark) or Mancatcher (Comp Warrior), either of which will grant you a free Grapple attempt when you use them. (They're touch attacks, so don't even bother with proficiency).

Then when it is your turn, Quickdraw and attack with your Ritiik (Frostburn). If you successfully hit an enemy, the enemy must make a Reflex Save. If it fails, you get a free Trip Attempt. It's basically a weaker version of Knock-Down (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Knock-Down), but it only costs 1 feat and doesn't have the Int requirement of Combat Expertise.

If you are fighting a boss enemy and you're worried about debuffing or locking down for multiple rounds, then use Quickdraw to draw and throw a Net (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Net), Razor Net, or Lasso onto your enemy. (Again, they're touch attacks). When hit, your enemy takes a -4 Dex penalty, moves at half speed, can't Charge, can't Run, and has to win an opposed Str check to move away from you. Note that by RAW, there is nothing stopping you from attacking with multiple Nets/Razor Net/Lasso and having multiple trailing lines, in case you're fighting a quirky mini-boss squad that you need to slow down.

If your enemy attempts to escape from a Net/Razor Net/Lasso or attempts to stand up from being Prone, you get a free AoO. If necessary, switch back to your Pincer Staff or Mancatcher to make this attack (also uses Touch Attacks) which give you a free Grapple check when you hit your enemy. Then when it's your turn you can drop the Mancatcher and switch back to a Ritiik to Trip him again (assuming he's not dead).

With Quickdraw, you can switch from Net to Ritiik to Mancatcher to glaive weapon as needed as a Free Action. (You just have to carry a lot of them - not a problem with 18 Str). If your DM counts caltrops as weapons (by RAW they're equipment, but I consider them weapons) you can draw and drop them as a Free Action as well to further limit your enemies' movement.

[AtwasAwamps]

...I just love the imagery of having all those polearms strapped to my back.

[Petrocorus]

You can ask the DM if you can change your 17 and your 12 for a 16 and a 13.
That will solve the Int requirement and, after all, if you have a concept and your not trying to be overpowerful, he could accept.

You can also look on this build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415) for advice. Not a PsyWar, but a fair tripper.

[AtwasAwamps]

I love the elegance of the horizon tripper, it's a favorite build of mine. I might ask the DM about the stat switch, but I'll bet they say "no".