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Zergrusheddie
2010-03-15, 07:17 PM
Intimidating Strike requires a Standard Attack Action and works a little like Power Attack. Except that you subtract "A a number equal to or less than your base attack bonus" and you if you hit you get a free Intimidate check to cause Shaken based on the number you subtracted.

The "a number" bit has me thinking. Realistically, is it possible to subtract 0 and get a free Intimidate Check on a Standard Attack Action?
Theoretically, subtracting an integer (say, -5) could give a +5 bonus to attack and let you intimidate at -5.

So, is it possible to subtract 0 to get the bonus for Intimidating Strike?

Kurald Galain
2010-03-15, 07:19 PM
No. You're supposed to subtract a nonzero natural number. Not pi, not negative fifty, not i squared plus c.

JasonP
2010-03-15, 07:26 PM
I am pretty sure that you can subtract 0 and still use Intimidating Strike. The difference between that and Power Attack is that in order for Power Attack to do anything you have to subtract a number from attack to add to damage or nothing really happens. For Intimidating strike it just gives you an intimidate check that is boosted by the number you subtract, it doesn't have to be boosted though, the bonus is just equal to what you subtract.

Gametime
2010-03-15, 07:33 PM
No. You're supposed to subtract a nonzero natural number. Not pi, not negative fifty, not i squared plus c.

Aw, there goes my plan to make it the greatest melee feat in the world by subtracting arbitrarily large negative numbers and all but guaranteeing successful attacks... :smalltongue:

Zergrusheddie
2010-03-15, 07:38 PM
I know that you are not supposed to be able to subtract -50 to get a huge plus; I mostly threw that in for some RAWtarded laughs.

My question about subtracting 0 is a real question though. What do y'all think?

Foryn Gilnith
2010-03-15, 08:00 PM
I always assumed you could subtract 0.

Runestar
2010-03-15, 08:03 PM
I say aye. 0 is a real number as far as I am concerned. :smallbiggrin:

Tinydwarfman
2010-03-15, 08:05 PM
The game views zero as a positive number (as far as I can tell, all instances of it are +0) so I don't see why not. I wouldn't allow it, but does subtracting 1 from your attack roll really hurt you that much?

Ganurath
2010-03-15, 08:06 PM
Where is this feat, and what are its prerequisites? It would go well with the Desert Half-Orc Hexblade / Avenging Executioner / Ghost-Faced Killer build I always come back to. Otyugh Hole provides Menacing Mien for +4 Intimidate and the roleplaying requirement for Avenging Executioner!

Person_Man
2010-03-15, 08:13 PM
IT'S A TRAP! A Standard Action for 1 attack is a huge ripoff, especially when there are a dozen other Fear effects that work as an Attack Action, Swift Action, or Move Action. I would avoid it.

Runestar
2010-03-15, 08:53 PM
Prior to getting iterative attacks, it is no different from a normal attack (just that you cannot use it on a charge).

Thurbane
2010-03-15, 09:31 PM
It's also not bad if you move then attack.

My 2 cents: no, you can't subtract 0, it would have to be 1 or greater, same as Power Attack or Combat Expertise. That's my gut though, not RAW.

My Dragon Shaman got pretty regular usage from this feat in our EttRoG campaign.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-03-15, 09:37 PM
IT'S A TRAP! A Standard Action for 1 attack is a huge ripoff, especially when there are a dozen other Fear effects that work as an Attack Action, Swift Action, or Move Action. I would avoid it.

And how is a martial character suppose to use those fear effects, a shaken enemy takes penalties to hit you.
And while intimidating strike can't worsen a fear effect beyond shaken. Something else applied after intimidating strike could enhance it beyond shaken.

Order of effects my friend order of effects

Runestar
2010-03-15, 10:41 PM
My 2 cents: no, you can't subtract 0, it would have to be 1 or greater, same as Power Attack or Combat Expertise. That's my gut though, not RAW.
Neither power attack or expertise actually stipulates that the number subtracted has to be greater than 1. It's just that you get zero benefit if you subtract zero, so it effectively regulates itself.

Intimidating strike is a entirely different ballgame though. :smallamused:

Zergrusheddie
2010-03-15, 11:08 PM
It's found in PH2.

Thurbane
2010-03-16, 08:56 PM
Neither power attack or expertise actually stipulates that the number subtracted has to be greater than 1. It's just that you get zero benefit if you subtract zero, so it effectively regulates itself.

Intimidating strike is a entirely different ballgame though. :smallamused:
Like I said, not RAW, just my gut feeling. It's what I'd enforce in any games I ran.

Also, whether 0 is a "number" or not is a fairly often debated topic in mathematics circles.