Star Trek TNG [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Lawless III

2010-03-16, 10:28 PM

I've never really watched a lot of Star Trek in general. I've had two different people try to get me into it (one with the original series, the other with TNG,) but they both showed me one or two of their favorite episodes and I never really had any clue who anyone was or what was going on. So, I just wrote it off as overhyped.

Recently however, I talked about it briefly with a friend and realized that the basic concept really appealed to me. He recommended I try watching TNG from the beginning. So I did.

Wow! I'm still in the first few episodes, but so far it's pretty freaking awesome. I'm genuinely excited to see the continuing adventures of these characters.

So, that's my little tale, now I'd love to hear (or rather... read) your thoughts and experiences with the Star Trek franchise in general. :smallsmile:

The Big Dice

2010-03-16, 10:40 PM

I have to admit that the first time I saw TNG I was blown away. Sure, some of the early episodes were pretty lame and Wesley Crusher made me want to go to Hollywood and go on a chainsaw rampage around the Paramount offices.

But that said, it was must see TV back in the day.

Now, of course, is a different story. Star Trek in general makes me cringe, but I think that's more down to having watched it slowly go from the only sci-fi on TV and therefore being the benchmark that other shows have to live up to, to being The Franchise.

Lawless III

2010-03-16, 11:07 PM

As I said before, I haven't had a lot of exposure to Star Trek. I also haven't been that into sci fi at large (save for Star Wars, Dr. Who and a few other exceptions) as I have always been more of a fantasy nerd. I can understand where you're coming from though.

Ponce

2010-03-16, 11:14 PM

If you sincerely think the first few episodes were awesome, you're going to be in for a treat later.

Lawless III

2010-03-16, 11:27 PM

If you sincerely think the first few episodes were awesome, you're going to be in for a treat later.

This is the general response most fans I've talked to have given me. I hope you are all correct.

Starscream

2010-03-16, 11:28 PM

If you sincerely think the first few episodes were awesome, you're going to be in for a treat later.

Indeed. The trope "Growing the Beard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrowingTheBeard)" is named for TNG. It refers to a series that suddenly finds its niche and becomes better after a while.

This is exactly what happens with Next Gen in season 2. Right about the time that Riker starts sporting a rugged beard, the quality of the writing also takes a turn for the better. To this day it's my favorite Trek.

Kneenibble

2010-03-16, 11:30 PM

Wesley Crusher is a succulent little duckling.

King_of_GRiffins

2010-03-17, 12:34 AM

TNG tends to be my favorite of all Star Treks. The original is just old and corny, and the future ones just seem to try too hard. Picard hits a nice balance of being a logically minded, moral, peaceful negotiator who tends to think about the issue at hand, while still getting in plenty of random action with plot, away missions, intergalactic energy fields and other cool stuff that doesn't really need to be explained in anything more then technobabble.

Oddly enough, I don't see why Wesley is so darn aanoying to everyone else. He really just seems like another lower tier character who gets a bit of development as time goes on. I did notice one or two episodes where it seemed like he was having a bigger role then he should have, but never came across as anything worse then an eager kid. What is it that drives people so mad about him?

FoE

2010-03-17, 12:36 AM

What is it that drives people so mad about him?

Because he was this teen genius who was right about practically everything and knew more than the experienced bridge officers and was extra-super special cuz he was going to evolve into a higher form of life and SHUT UP, WESLEY!

arguskos

2010-03-17, 12:52 AM

Because he was this teen genius who was right about practically everything and knew more than the experienced bridge officers and was extra-super special cuz he was going to evolve into a higher form of life and SHUT UP, WESLEY!
This. Oh dear god, this. I HATE YOU WESLEY CRUSHER ARGH!! *force chokes to death*

Hell, Wil Wheaton has publicly stated he regrets playing the character, and things he made the show worse.

As for TNG, hellz yeah. It's awesome. Just wait until Riker sports that beard. :smallwink:

Ponce

2010-03-17, 03:53 AM

Oddly enough, I don't see why Wesley is so darn aanoying to everyone else. He really just seems like another lower tier character who gets a bit of development as time goes on. I did notice one or two episodes where it seemed like he was having a bigger role then he should have, but never came across as anything worse then an eager kid. What is it that drives people so mad about him?

This confused me, too, at first. But then, I watched TNG piecemeal, originally. I was born in 1987, so obviously I never really watched its original run. Eventually, though, I *ahem* acquired a complete collection of all the TNG episodes and watched them in order. Honestly? Just try to get through the first two seasons. Wesley is just THERE. CONSTANTLY. Being... being WESLEY. The start of the show featured him way, WAY too much. And, honestly, for all the screen time he got, his character was never developed. He was just a Marty-Stu that inexplicably solved problems. DATA had more personality than him. The only decent episode featuring him in any substantial amount is 5x19: The First Duty. :smallwink:

rakkoon

2010-03-17, 04:22 AM

I have that problem with all the Star Treks, they need one or two seasons before they become really good. So have fun, it gets better :smallbiggrin:

Manga Shoggoth

2010-03-17, 04:37 AM

I actually thought that the original TNG episode was - frankly - crap. Poor plot and poor acting (Troi especially - she was worse than Crusher at the start). I was also completely underwhelmed by Q as the bad guy (you really don't want cosmic-level entities at the very start of the series).

...But it improved. Even Crusher was quite good in some episodes (the one with the wargame springs to mind). Even Q began to grow on me once he stopped being a "Squire of Gothos" knockoff.

Overall, there are far worse programs from that era.

Joran

2010-03-17, 12:06 PM

Because he was this teen genius who was right about practically everything and knew more than the experienced bridge officers and was extra-super special cuz he was going to evolve into a higher form of life and SHUT UP, WESLEY!

Gene Roddenberry's middle name is Wesley... Yeah, it was that blatant of a Marty Stu.

I like DS9 better overall, but many of my favorite episodes are from TNG, including my all-time favorite: The Inner Light.

SolkaTruesilver

2010-03-17, 12:35 PM

Because he was this teen genius who was right about practically everything and knew more than the experienced bridge officers and was extra-super special cuz he was going to evolve into a higher form of life and SHUT UP, WESLEY!

Wesley was badly written. That is all. It's a mix of "did not cared", "Do not know how to write a child", "Making one seem bright by making all others dumb" and finally, deliberate sabotage on the part of some writers.

Hell, some of the wrost written moments for Wesley was D.C. Fontana, and she held a booth in Star Trek convention entitled "The Wesley Problem". I think somebody had a conflict of interest.

If Wesley would have been written more as a River-like character, less the psychopathic urges, that would have been better.

But overall, the first season wasn't really good.

Tirian

2010-03-17, 12:57 PM

I think that both Wesley and Troi were lazy writing; just quick ways of establishing or resolving whatever conflict they wanted to work on that week. It's hardly unique to TNG. TOS would have Spock saying that some energy field was totally powerful and completely unknown to the Federation or that they just discovered a planet that is exactly like Earth except that some major war went the other way. Star Trek thrives on fridge logic to establish the theme of every episode, and TNG happened to pile that work onto two actors.

I think they got better. With Troi, anyway, they just got rid of Wesley eventually. But let's not forget that Wil Wheaton himself has grown into awesomecakes with awesomesauce on top. And the writers hit their stride in the second season and the show stayed pretty darn tight for the remainder of its run.

Mando Knight

2010-03-17, 01:24 PM

I think they got better. With Troi, anyway, they just got rid of Wesley eventually. But let's not forget that Wil Wheaton himself has grown into awesomecakes with awesomesauce on top.
And hates Wesley himself.

Yes, that's right. Wesley Crusher was so badly written that Wesley hates Wesley.

When the show isn't focusing on the poor, misunderstood genius Wesley, it can vary between "better than half of what Hollywood puts out these days" to "this is freakin' awesome." :smalltongue: So awesome, in fact, that it's still one of the two best shows that Sci-Fi (or SyFy, or SyPhilis, or whatever) airs.

The other is Stargate SG-1. Specifically, the episodes with Richard Dean Anderson in them.

Zeta Kai

2010-03-17, 02:27 PM

Wesley Crusher is a succulent little duckling.

:eek:

Anyway, yeah, DS9 is a great show, too. All of the series in fact are good, to a certain extent. But they are start rather shaky, & need a few season to hit their stride. For whatever reason, the writers always take a few seasons to get the characters going in some interesting direction. I think that it's something about the Star Trek universe. This was probably what made the latter shows less popular, as modern audiences aren't willing to give a show 2+ seasons to get their act together. This isn't the audiences fault, but times have changed a lot since TNG, when Star Trek was one of the only sci-fi games around on television. It's hard to imagine TNG surviving today on the merits of its first two seasons; it's no wonder Enterprise got axed.

Starscream

2010-03-17, 03:09 PM

Yes, that's right. Wesley Crusher was so badly written that Wesley hates Wesley.

There is only one character in science fiction that I dislike more than Wesley: Adric from Doctor Who.

Basically the same deal as Wesley, but ten years earlier: young genius who hangs around with the older characters, added to make the show appeal to younger audiences. And everyone hates him as a result.

Except whereas Wesley occasionally did stuff on his show, Adric was completely useless. He was supposed to be a supergenius at math, but we almost never saw any evidence of that fact. Instead he came off as an obnoxious, unjustifiably arrogant snot. Doesn't help that his actor was said to be the same way, criticizing the performances of much more experienced actors (he seems to have mellowed a bit, though).

They did end up giving him a bit of pathos in his last appearance, though. Good thing too, because that's when he died. I'm surprised they had the cojones to go through with it considering how young the character was. But his death was genuinely pretty sad. I can't say part of me wasn't cheering, though.

comicshorse

2010-03-17, 07:37 PM

I can't say part of me wasn't cheering, though.

You and me both:smallsmile:

Mr. Scaly

2010-03-17, 11:34 PM

I pretty much grew up on TNG, so yes I recommend it all highly. Particularly any episode with Q or Barclay in it. Best guest stars ever.

Though I have to say of all the characters Troi annoyed me the most. More than Wesley even, because love him or hate him Wesley did stuff. Troi did nothing but for some reason she got a seat on the bridge. Um...why exactly?

dogmac

2010-03-17, 11:36 PM

Wesley Crusher is the person I would most like to see eaten by a space alien.

However, Jean-Luc Picard is the sexiest man in the known universe.

IthilanorStPete

2010-03-18, 12:39 AM

Patrick Stewart is one of the two men who makes me wonder about my sexuality. Enough said.

dogmac

2010-03-18, 12:44 AM

No, that isn't enough said. Who is the other one????

IthilanorStPete

2010-03-18, 12:50 AM

The good Captain Tightpants, of course.
*swoons over the most rugged chin in existence*

Lord Seth

2010-03-18, 01:47 AM

Indeed. The trope "Growing the Beard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrowingTheBeard)" is named for TNG. It refers to a series that suddenly finds its niche and becomes better after a while.

This is exactly what happens with Next Gen in season 2. Right about the time that Riker starts sporting a rugged beard, the quality of the writing also takes a turn for the better. To this day it's my favorite Trek.I'm going to disagree. Season two did some things better than season one (such as actually having a standout episode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Measure_of_a_Man_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generati on))), but it wasn't that big of an improvement. It was season three, the season after Riker grew the beard, that the series really started improving. A better term that more accurately describes what made the show better was "losing the Roddenberry and gaining the Piller" but I suppose that's too long. A bit ironic that Gene Roddenberry being absent for Star Trek's third season is stated as a reason it went downhill, but it wasn't until he started having less influence on TNG that the show improved...

:eek:

Anyway, yeah, DS9 is a great show, too. All of the series in fact are good, to a certain extent. But they are start rather shaky, & need a few season to hit their stride.Actually, in the original series, it was the opposite: It started out pretty good, and in the third season, went belly-up.

DS9 was a great show though. Sadly, it never achieved the recognition that The Next Generation did.

It's hard to imagine TNG surviving today on the merits of its first two seasons; it's no wonder Enterprise got axed....except Enterprise did "survive on the merits of its first two seasons" (though I use the term "merits" extremely loosely). The show got axed after it had actually become somewhat worthwhile.

Tirian

2010-03-18, 05:19 AM

Though I have to say of all the characters Troi annoyed me the most. More than Wesley even, because love him or hate him Wesley did stuff. Troi did nothing but for some reason she got a seat on the bridge. Um...why exactly?

The simple answer is because she was a Lieutenant Commander. Sorry, but there's no time for follow-up questions.

She got better writing, but it was far into the series. Pretty much the time that they gave her a promotion to Commander and dressed her like a Starfleet officer instead of an aerobics instructor. I mean, sheesh, "cleavage-sporting empathic therapist" really makes "blind chief engineer" seem like a brainiac hiring decision.

Mr. Scaly

2010-03-18, 01:27 PM

The simple answer is because she was a Lieutenant Commander. Sorry, but there's no time for follow-up questions.

She got better writing, but it was far into the series. Pretty much the time that they gave her a promotion to Commander and dressed her like a Starfleet officer instead of an aerobics instructor. I mean, sheesh, "cleavage-sporting empathic therapist" really makes "blind chief engineer" seem like a brainiac hiring decision.

...Troi actually had a rank? Before the episode where she got promoted? But...but she never actually did anything. Maybe my memory is failing me but I don't recall Troi ever actually giving any orders.

SolkaTruesilver

2010-03-18, 01:35 PM

...Troi actually had a rank? Before the episode where she got promoted? But...but she never actually did anything. Maybe my memory is failing me but I don't recall Troi ever actually giving any orders.

She got promoted when she actually realised what being in command entails.

A great episode.

Lord Seth

2010-03-18, 04:16 PM

She got better writing, but it was far into the series. Pretty much the time that they gave her a promotion to Commander and dressed her like a Starfleet officer instead of an aerobics instructor. I mean, sheesh, "cleavage-sporting empathic therapist" really makes "blind chief engineer" seem like a brainiac hiring decision.That did constantly annoy me, that she was constantly out of uniform without any explanation whatsoever for it. I mean, Kira, Odo, Seven of Nine, and T'Pol at least had the reason that they weren't in Starfleet. Troi doesn't wear a uniform because...um...she doesn't. At least they started having her do that later on in the series.

Mando Knight

2010-03-18, 04:29 PM

I mean, sheesh, "cleavage-sporting empathic therapist" really makes "blind chief engineer" seem like a brainiac hiring decision.

Hey, Geordi is a good character. Though I might not be defending his position as much if he weren't played by LeVar Burton, the same guy who hosts Reading Rainbow. Or had that neat VISOR.

Texas_Ben

2010-03-18, 05:15 PM

I mean, Kira, Odo, Seven of Nine, and T'Pol at least had the reason that they weren't in Starfleet.
Kira and Odo were in uniform. They were with Bajoran security, and therefore wore the uniform of that service.

The Big Dice

2010-03-18, 05:23 PM

Troi is one of my Big Issues with TNG. I mean, how 80s is it to have a full time therapist as part of your bridge crew?

The Glyphstone

2010-03-18, 06:09 PM

Troi is one of my Big Issues with TNG. I mean, how 80s is it to have a full time therapist as part of your bridge crew?

Considering all the stuff they went through on a weekly basis? It actually makes a sort of weird, bizzare sense.

Kobold-Bard

2010-03-18, 06:23 PM

Troi wore a uniform in the first episode. How come they changed her, was it purely cleavage for cleavage's sake?

The Big Dice

2010-03-18, 06:48 PM

Troi wore a uniform in the first episode. How come they changed her, was it purely cleavage for cleavage's sake?

Marina Sirtis once said you can have either brains or cleavage in Star Tek. But not both at the same time. That seems as good an explanation as any.

SolkaTruesilver

2010-03-18, 07:00 PM

Troi wore a uniform in the first episode. How come they changed her, was it purely cleavage for cleavage's sake?

About Troi's uniform. Think about it: it was supposed to be the new incarnation of Star Trek.

Star Trek

Star Trek (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheissTitillationTheory)

Eventually, AFTERWHILE, we think it looks silly and stupid. But initially, I guess they must have decided that they needed skimpy outfitted babes on the show for it to be Star Trek.

Prime32

2010-03-18, 07:34 PM

About Troi's uniform. Think about it: it was supposed to be the new incarnation of Star Trek.

Star Trek

Star Trek (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheissTitillationTheory)

Eventually, AFTERWHILE, we think it looks silly and stupid. But initially, I guess they must have decided that they needed skimpy outfitted babes on the show for it to be Star Trek.
*cough* Seven of Nine *cough* :smallwink:

I kid, Seven was a cool character with interesting plotlines. It's a shame that the writers thought the ratings boost came only from her figure. That's how we got T'Pol and all those "decontamination" scenes.

snoopy13a

2010-03-18, 07:36 PM

Troi is one of my Big Issues with TNG. I mean, how 80s is it to have a full time therapist as part of your bridge crew?

It makes sense for an exploration vessel. The Enterprise often made first contact with aliens so having a psychologist on the bridge during initial communcations is a nice asset to have.

A purely military vessel wouldn't have a need for a psychologist on the bridge although if they were a largish vessel, they might carry one to provide therapy for crew.

My major issue is allowing family, especially children on board. I realize that keeping families together is a laudable goal but the Enterprise has to be one of the most dangerous assignments in Starfleet. Why risk innocent children?

Tirian

2010-03-18, 07:41 PM

Troi is one of my Big Issues with TNG. I mean, how 80s is it to have a full time therapist as part of your bridge crew?

I don't know that that is so 80's. I think that the clear mark of the 80's was when they said "You know what the Enterprise really needs? A *bartender*."

And the standing poker game, which I actually still think is one of the neatest ideas in televised science fiction. I mean, in a nutshell, you've got Riker playing poker against a supercomputer, two humanoid lie detectors, and a guy who would just as soon rip your arms off if he loses, and all indications are that he's holding his own.

And as much as I didn't like the wardrobe or hair or dialog that they forced on Marina Sirtis, it does make some sense for the tactical and diplomatic command decisions of the ship to be informed by an empath who could sense individual people or groups millions of miles away (if not farther, I don't recall if she could sense people at warp distance).

Frankly, I'm surprised that a TNG harping session made it this far without a mention of Kate Pulaski.

SolkaTruesilver

2010-03-18, 07:45 PM

I don't know that that is so 80's. I think that the clear mark of the 80's was when they said "You know what the Enterprise really needs? A *bartender*."
.

They had one. And she made a much better job putting people's mind back in one piece than Troi ever did.

Texas_Ben

2010-03-18, 08:51 PM

Frankly, I'm surprised that a TNG harping session made it this far without a mention of Kate Pulaski.
She wasn't bad just...meh. Totally forgettable.

IthilanorStPete

2010-03-18, 09:52 PM

My major issue is allowing family, especially children on board. I realize that keeping families together is a laudable goal but the Enterprise has to be one of the most dangerous assignments in Starfleet. Why risk innocent children?

Which is why both in-show and out of show, they said it was an experiment that didn't work out. :smallsmile:

nothingclever

2010-03-19, 01:43 AM

*cough* Seven of Nine *cough* :smallwink:

I kid, Seven was a cool character with interesting plotlines. It's a shame that the writers thought the ratings boost came only from her figure. That's how we got T'Pol and all those "decontamination" scenes.
I just googled T'Pol and found out it's the name of the Vulcan on the latest failed Star Trek show. That show was so disgustingly bad. You knew it was bad as soon as the intro began. An intro with music that has lyrics? LYRICS? No, just no. That's not Star Trek. Plus the council of races was silly. Oooh lizard men, insect people and psychic dolphins that literally have to be in a giant fish tank so that they can talk to everyone during a meeting. So terribly unoriginal. I remember seeing one scene where the captain main character states it appears the lizard people are descendants of Earth's primitive lizards and a lizard man screams at him for daring to suggest such a blasphemous thing despite the fact he's a bloody lizard.

Anyways, the best Star Trek is the original series. The one with Picard is the next best. The one with Janeway is third and every other series afterwards doesn't exist. The one with Cisco was also terrible.

factotum

2010-03-19, 02:09 AM

Troi is one of my Big Issues with TNG. I mean, how 80s is it to have a full time therapist as part of your bridge crew?

They sort of lampshaded that in the first series of Enterprise--somebody commented that in the future starships would be so large and away from home for so long that the crew would have to have their families along, and the stuck-up British guy whose name I forget observed that they'd have to have a therapist aboard if he brought HIS family.

In any case, that's the reason the families are aboard--the Enterprise is an exploration vessel and is supposed to be away from base for years at a time; it would be grossly unfair to keep the crew parted from their families for that entire period.

Mando Knight

2010-03-19, 04:43 AM

I just googled T'Pol and found out it's the name of the Vulcan on the latest failed Star Trek show. That show was so disgustingly bad. You knew it was bad as soon as the intro began. An intro with music that has lyrics? LYRICS? No, just no. That's not Star Trek....I liked at least parts of it...
...And a rewrite of the intro sequence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl5zw6fGjdA) for the Mirror Universe episodes.
Plus the council of races was silly. Oooh lizard men, insect people and psychic dolphins that literally have to be in a giant fish tank so that they can talk to everyone during a meeting. So terribly unoriginal.
So... what would you suggest instead? People walking around in costumes with rubber prosthetics on their foreheads? :smallwink:

Prime32

2010-03-19, 06:18 AM

I just googled T'Pol and found out it's the name of the Vulcan on the latest failed Star Trek show. That show was so disgustingly bad. You knew it was bad as soon as the intro began. An intro with music that has lyrics? LYRICS? No, just no. That's not Star Trek. I don't know, I found Enterprise's opening (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8TVrUa2GpE) pretty uplifting. Plenty of stuff in that show made me facepalm, but I hear season 3 was the best season any Star Trek series has had (or was that season 4?).

Anyways, the best Star Trek is the original series. The one with Picard is the next best. The one with Janeway is third and every other series afterwards doesn't exist. The one with Cisco was also terrible.When did you watch DS9? Because watching it when I was younger and couldn't see the episodes in order I couldn't enjoy it much. But now I find the elaborate arcs and character development much more interesting.

SolkaTruesilver

2010-03-19, 07:10 AM

I just googled T'Pol and found out it's the name of the Vulcan on the latest failed Star Trek show. That show was so disgustingly bad. You knew it was bad as soon as the intro began. An intro with music that has lyrics? LYRICS? No, just no. That's not Star Trek. Plus the council of races was silly. Oooh lizard men, insect people and psychic dolphins that literally have to be in a giant fish tank so that they can talk to everyone during a meeting. So terribly unoriginal. I remember seeing one scene where the captain main character states it appears the lizard people are descendants of Earth's primitive lizards and a lizard man screams at him for daring to suggest such a blasphemous thing despite the fact he's a bloody lizard.

Anyways, the best Star Trek is the original series. The one with Picard is the next best. The one with Janeway is third and every other series afterwards doesn't exist. The one with Cisco was also terrible.

For a few moments, I was thinking: "My god.. Was I that off in my evaluation of Enterprise? there was some good parts.. "

And then I saw your order of preference of shows, and I knew we were nothing alike in matter of taste, so I got reassured in my sanity :smallbiggrin: Anyone who can't spell Sisko and think DS9 is bad is nothing like me, so I'd expect him to hate what I love. :smallwink:

Yucca

2010-03-19, 09:27 AM

Ravens_cry

2010-03-19, 09:57 AM

About Troi's uniform. Think about it: it was supposed to be the new incarnation of Star Trek.

Star Trek

Star Trek (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheissTitillationTheory)

Eventually, AFTERWHILE, we think it looks silly and stupid. But initially, I guess they must have decided that they needed skimpy outfitted babes on the show for it to be Star Trek.
My favourite Deanna Troi uniform was the blue science officers one. It looked professional, like someone who actually had a job on a starship, not just someone there to ogle.

Texas_Ben

2010-03-19, 03:29 PM

Anyways, the best Star Trek is the original series. The one with Picard is the next best. The one with Janeway is third and every other series afterwards doesn't exist. The one with Cisco was also terrible.
Your opinions are bad and you should feel bad.

Joran

2010-03-19, 03:38 PM

The thing I like about TOS was that it was more in the older sci-fi tradition of social commentary. It tired to examine society and humanity, and make interesting points on them. In this way it was similar to the works of the great sci-fi authors (Asimov, Heinlein, Clarke).

All the later series were basicly "an adventure show in space" with occasional commentary thrown in.

Although, if you want to see the pinnacle of Star Trek you should watch "In the Pale Moonlight" from DS9

I'd disagree. TNG, DS9, and Voyager all dealt with social commentary issues on a regular basis, especially TNG. You couldn't go through an episode without Picard preaching at someone in his glorious British/French accent.

The adventure show in space was the reboot movie: Star Trek.

SolkaTruesilver

2010-03-19, 03:59 PM

Mando Knight

2010-03-19, 04:16 PM

I'd disagree. TNG, DS9, and Voyager all dealt with social commentary issues on a regular basis, especially TNG. You couldn't go through an episode without Picard preaching at someone in his glorious British/French accent.

It's his glorious Sir Patrick Stewart accent. The official accent of pro-Humanity monologues (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PatrickStewartSpeech).

Yucca

2010-03-19, 06:44 PM

I'd disagree. TNG, DS9, and Voyager all dealt with social commentary issues on a regular basis, especially TNG. You couldn't go through an episode without Picard preaching at someone in his glorious British/French accent.

The adventure show in space was the reboot movie: Star Trek.

Preaching about how glorious humanity is != social commentary. Sure, each series did have individual episodes where they examined human nature in some interesting way, but overall the average TNG and VOY episodes are "crew meets obstacle" -> "crew has hard time overcoming obstacle" -> "crew finds a techobabble solution to obstacle" -> "crew overcomes obstacle" DS9 suffered a little less because it was more character driven, but it did follow this pattern a number of times.

To put it another way: The MAIN POINT of ToS was social commentary, and it had some sci-fi adventures mixed in. The MAIN POINT of the others was sci-fi adventures with some social commentary mixed in.

Prime32

2010-03-19, 07:07 PM

To put it another way: The MAIN POINT of ToS was social commentary, and it had some sci-fi adventures mixed in. The MAIN POINT of the others was sci-fi adventures with some social commentary mixed in.Well, it's probably harder to see now that you don't get sued for having a white guy kiss a black woman on TV. :smalltongue:

Lord Seth

2010-03-19, 08:55 PM

Kira and Odo were in uniform. They were with Bajoran security, and therefore wore the uniform of that service.I meant Starfleet uniform. I was making the point that they weren't in Starfleet uniforms because they weren't, um, in Starfleet. Troi isn't in a Starfleet uniform because...again, no particular reason, she just isn't.

Anyways, the best Star Trek is the original series. The one with Picard is the next best. The one with Janeway is third and every other series afterwards doesn't exist. The one with Cisco was also terrible....are you serious? You're calling DS9 "terrible"? I can understand not liking it, but "terrible"? That show was possibly the best incarnation of Star Trek ever.

Mr. Scaly

2010-03-21, 12:10 AM

...are you serious? You're calling DS9 "terrible"? I can understand not liking it, but "terrible"? That show was possibly the best incarnation of Star Trek ever.

I agree with you while including TNG after the first season. I like to think of them as two halves of a whole. TNG is about the starfleet officers who explore the galaxy and live the high life, while DS9 is about the other people who don't get the coolest job in the universe and instead have to make a real living.

Derthric

2010-03-21, 02:50 AM

I agree with you while including TNG after the first season. I like to think of them as two halves of a whole. TNG is about the starfleet officers who explore the galaxy and live the high life, while DS9 is about the other people who don't get the coolest job in the universe and instead have to make a real living.

I always made the point that DS9 is what happens after the Enterprise leaves to solve a new problem in a week somewhere else.

As far as the quality of one series versus another it really comes down to taste as all have highs and lows.

To the OP if you love the start of TNG you sir are a better man than I and will have one heck of an adventure coming up.

Ravens_cry

2010-03-21, 04:30 AM

DS9 was a different take, but a worthy innovation on the theme. It had some excellent characters, much more rich story arcs, and some of the most awe inspiringly cool large scale space battles I have ever seen.*
*That happened to be LESS nauseating to me then the one on one fights in the recent movie, but that's a different rant for a different day.

Dervag

2010-03-21, 10:41 AM

They sort of lampshaded that in the first series of Enterprise--somebody commented that in the future starships would be so large and away from home for so long that the crew would have to have their families along, and the stuck-up British guy whose name I forget observed that they'd have to have a therapist aboard if he brought HIS family.

In any case, that's the reason the families are aboard--the Enterprise is an exploration vessel and is supposed to be away from base for years at a time; it would be grossly unfair to keep the crew parted from their families for that entire period.They did that all the time during the Age of Sail, and during major wars, historically.

I don't know about you, but if I'm getting shot at and irradiated by the Particle of the Week, I'd rather be down on my knees thanking Q that my family is safely out of it than worrying about their safety.

...I liked at least parts of it...
...And a rewrite of the intro sequence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl5zw6fGjdA) for the Mirror Universe episodes.Ooh. Wow. That is good for its purpose.

Also, you'll note, it has no lyrics. Just ominous Latin chanting.

Mando Knight

2010-03-21, 01:18 PM

I don't know about you, but if I'm getting shot at and irradiated by the Particle of the Week, I'd rather be down on my knees thanking Q that my family is safely out of it than worrying about their safety.

When has Q done anything that the Enterprise should be thankful for, other than giving Captain Picard someone to mentally duel?

Tirian

2010-03-21, 01:53 PM

When has Q done anything that the Enterprise should be thankful for, other than giving Captain Picard someone to mentally duel?

I suppose he gave the Federation time to prepare for the Borg invasion when most civilizations were caught unaware.

shadow_archmagi

2010-03-21, 02:01 PM

Whenever I see "TNG" I think "Teenage Ninja g-gubwah? Oh, right."

SolkaTruesilver

2010-03-21, 08:39 PM

I suppose he gave the Federation time to prepare for the Borg invasion when most civilizations were caught unaware.

Indeed. Most people (both in- and out- of the Trekverse) don't realise that Q never revealed the Federation to the Borg. He revealed the Borg to the Federation.

The Borg was responsible for the destroyed colonies in "The Neutral Zone" episode. So Q was probably telling himself that the Humans deserved a sporting chance and tried balancing out the tables.

Ravens_cry

2010-03-21, 10:26 PM

comicshorse

2010-03-21, 10:33 PM

Though as Picard pointed out it would have been nice if he could have done that in a way that didn't get 17 Enterprise crew men killed

Mando Knight

2010-03-21, 10:34 PM

I suppose he gave the Federation time to prepare for the Borg invasion when most civilizations were caught unaware.

Alright... so that's one thing he's done nice. Didn't help much, as far as I recall. Just showed Picard that there's always a bigger mechanical fish in the galactic pond.

Ravens_cry

2010-03-21, 10:37 PM

Though as Picard pointed out it would have been nice if he could have done that in a way that didn't get 17 Enterprise crew men killed
What makes the canon weird, and I mean weird, is the mention of the Borg in Star Trek:Generations when Guinan was a kid. And her species is rather long loved.

Texas_Ben

2010-03-21, 11:16 PM

Alright... so that's one thing he's done nice. Didn't help much, as far as I recall. Just showed Picard that there's always a bigger mechanical fish in the galactic pond.

Didn't the Federation subsequently put a great deal of R&D into developing weapons to counter the borg? I know that the defiant class was originally intended for use in combat against the borg.

chiasaur11

2010-03-21, 11:20 PM

Though as Picard pointed out it would have been nice if he could have done that in a way that didn't get 17 Enterprise crew men killed

Eh, Kirk lost that many redshirts on trips to paradise planets.

The fringes of known space ain't safe. Lesson worth knowing.

Mando Knight

2010-03-21, 11:37 PM

Didn't the Federation subsequently put a great deal of R&D into developing weapons to counter the borg? I know that the defiant class was originally intended for use in combat against the borg.

I thought that came after Picard ceased being Locutus...

Texas_Ben

2010-03-21, 11:46 PM

I thought that came after Picard ceased being Locutus...
Well it's difficult for me to say when exactly the thing was developed, only that it wasn't deployed until the dominion was a threat. Let me scuttle on over to memory alpha... Before I do that, though, remember that there were several purpose-built anti-borg weapons developed by starfleet within a relatively short space of time. Unfortunately, they were rendered useless when Picard, who had knowledge of these weapons' workings, was assimilated.

Memory alpha tells me that devlopment of the defiant-class began during the same year picard was assimilated, no mention of when.

SmartAlec

2010-03-21, 11:58 PM

Kobold-Bard

2010-03-22, 04:57 AM

Indeed. Most people (both in- and out- of the Trekverse) don't realise that Q never revealed the Federation to the Borg. He revealed the Borg to the Federation.

The Borg was responsible for the destroyed colonies in "The Neutral Zone" episode. So Q was probably telling himself that the Humans deserved a sporting chance and tried balancing out the tables.

Isn't the idea that Q may be an *******, but he always has some glimmer of "help" in his actions?

Maybe not Voyager (can't remember) but at least when he turned up in DS9 his ultimate goal may have been to take Vash back, but he definitely made sure the crew knew she was about to sell a sentient being to the highest bidder. I think, it's been a while.

SolkaTruesilver

2010-03-22, 06:32 AM

The Federation did throw stuff into R&D once they heard about the Borg. Commander Shelby, the 'guest star' first officer in the Locutus episodes, was the head of the R&D team in question. The episodes mention that they've tried developing new weapons systems, but no mention of any new ships in design is made.

Possibly the Defiant was designed after the battle at Wolf 359, when it was graphically demonstrated to the Federation that their ships were somewhat lacking for the job.

No, the defiant was developped by Sisko & friends to defeat the Borg. It was pit in mothballs after Wolf 359 and the borg's defeat.

While Q's warning did not helped against the Borg, it made a major difference in the war against the Dominion.

Texas_Ben

2010-03-22, 12:27 PM

No, the defiant was developped by Sisko & friends to defeat the Borg. It was pit in mothballs after Wolf 359 and the borg's defeat.
Uhm, no. It wasn't developed by "Sisko & friends", unless by that you mean whoever at starfleet is responsible for designing ships.
It was mothballed "when the borg threat became less urgent" which was most definitely not after Wolf 359, where the earth was saved by the skin off her teeth.

SolkaTruesilver

2010-03-22, 12:43 PM

Uhm, no. It wasn't developed by "Sisko & friends", unless by that you mean whoever at starfleet is responsible for designing ships.
It was mothballed "when the borg threat became less urgent" which was most definitely not after Wolf 359, where the earth was saved by the skin off her teeth.

You are right, it got mothballed later on. But still, Sisko directly worked on the projet.

Defiant's history (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/USS_Defiant_(NX-74205)#Origins)

Arcane_Secrets

2010-03-26, 11:11 AM

When has Q done anything that the Enterprise should be thankful for, other than giving Captain Picard someone to mentally duel?

He let Picard see what his life would've been like if Picard was less of a risk-taker, and then gave Picard a fully functioning heart after his artificial heart took a blast from a beam weapon and nearly killed him.

He gave Data the chance to laugh before Data installed the emotion chip in Generations. In the same episode, he also moved the asteroid that was threatening a planet away from it.

Granted...this is still Q. However, it's still possible for him on rare occasions to actually do something decent.

SolkaTruesilver

2010-03-26, 11:22 AM

He let Picard see what his life would've been like if Picard was less of a risk-taker, and then gave Picard a fully functioning heart after his artificial heart took a blast from a beam weapon and nearly killed him.

He gave Data the chance to laugh before Data installed the emotion chip in Generations. In the same episode, he also moved the asteroid that was threatening a planet away from it.

Granted...this is still Q. However, it's still possible for him on rare occasions to actually do something decent.

He sometimes brought Voyager ahead of 2-3 years of travel. "Not to do everything for you, but just to show my appreciation".

He really comes of to me as the Trickster God. His misbehaviors are meant to provoke people out of apathy and stand for what they believe in and their ideals.

Manga Shoggoth

2010-03-26, 11:44 AM

Joran

2010-03-26, 02:16 PM

In some respects the whole TNG series is the swing from Q being an aloof, judgemental being, to Q being (in the background, at any rate) the race's advocate to the Q Continuum.

It culminates in the final episode when Q has been ordered to wipe out humanity (a repeat of his orders in the pilot - it is worth remembering that he was acting on behalf of the continuum even then). And Q sets it up so that Picard is able to defeat the method being used to do the wiping.

I liked All Good Things, because it showed the growth of the cast throughout the series, especially Picard. Picard started out the show as an aloof, commanding presence, awkward socially around his crew members. He ended up joining them in their weekly card games and it didn't seem forced.

Mauther

2010-03-26, 04:31 PM

The strength of TNG is the relationship between the core characters. You could have moved them into any other format (cop procedural, law firm soap opera, hospital drama) and it still would have worked. If your liking the first season, you’ll almost certainly like the rest of the series. Much of the initial awkwardness fades, and there are some truly outstanding episodes later on.

TNG is not my favorite for several reasons. I feel it did not age well, the special effects are poor without the quaintness/kitsch of the original series. Same thing with the dated eighties set design/future vision/hair styles. Personal opinion but I felt it inherited too much of Roddenberry’s and the original series utopian future. The other shows moved into a more mature depiction of a future society, warts and all, without descending into nihilism which I feel made for more interesting television. There were several character mis-steps: Wesley, Gainan, Troi. Wesley just suffers from the fact its hard to write a young or teen character into a show full of adults (television is full of failed teen characters – see Boxy, Battlestar Galactica or Jake from DS9), you either have to make him ridiculously smart or dumb down everyone around him. Gainan might have been a neat idea (demigod slumming it serving drinks to mortals), but I just think Whoopee was the wrong way to go casting-wise. Troi was an example of a character that took a while to find its niche. Once they de-emphasized the counselor aspect and made her part of the command staff (she essentially became the ships combo S-1/-9 officer – personnel and civil affairs) she became much stronger and integrated into the flow better. The early seasons have her tropping around in ugly miniskirts and that really unflattering unitard acting as Picard’s court wizard. Once they made her an officer, we got a lot less hand-to-forehead-“I feel nervousness” moments. Less said about a capital ship with a bar, school children, and a therapist in the chain of command, the better.

I want to say a quick word in defense of Enterprise. They were working within the convoluted backstory Trek had already created, so dramatically their hands were kind of tied. While I wasn’t a fan of the Temporal Cold War plotline, it was about the only thing they could do to get themselves some breathing room. There were 4 things they did that I thought really worked. First, the Enterprise worked like a real ship. Space was at a premium so there were no spacious multi room apartments. They had a cook. The deflector array could not be reconfigured to do anything the plot required. Second, the Makos. Enterprise went out to space, met mean aliens, and got shot up. So they went back to Earth, picked up a bunch of Mako’s (Trek’s version of Marines) and took them out on away missions. No more idiots from security getting turned into piles of pink dust. Third, the Andorrans rocked. Enterprise took some 2 bit race from the original series who also showed up in the background of every other series in franchise, fleshed them out and they were awesome. Andorans are the blue skinned people with antenneas. They should be straight comic relief. Instead, Enterprise made them these arrogant, belligerent, vicious class 1 a-holes (anti-vulcans), who hated everyone with extra special bile for the vulcans. It was like an entire race that had the Napoleon complex. The sheer contempt that they would spit out the phrse “pink skin” to refer to humans was awesome. If you ever get a chance to see one of these episodes, I highly recommend you watch them, they are really enjoyable. It helps that the main Andorran was played by one of the main Trek guest actors, Jeffrey Combs. Finally, as previously mentioned the decontamination scenes with T’Pol and Hoshi were nice. What? It can’t all be plot driven.

My personal tastes ran towards DS9. I thought the characters fleshed out a lot more, the world was richer, there were real consequences to the choices characters made. I thought the fact that Sisco hated Picard was a nice touch. Cut into the Shiny happy world that seems to permeate a lot of "classic" Trek.

Lord Seth

2010-03-26, 05:25 PM

Wesley just suffers from the fact its hard to write a young or teen character into a show full of adults (television is full of failed teen characters – see Boxy, Battlestar Galactica or Jake from DS9),What? I thought Jake worked really well in DS9.

EDIT: Also:

I want to say a quick word in defense of Enterprise. They were working within the convoluted backstory Trek had already created, so dramatically their hands were kind of tied.That doesn't really excuse the many problems of Enterprise. The claim that their hands were tied due to backstory doesn't, for example, excuse the fact that Archer (in the first two seasons at least) was a bumbling idiot who really had no excuse to be a captain. Because SF Debris (http://sfdebris.com/enterprise/e104.asp) is constantly a better explainer of these things than I am, here's what he said about the episode Strange New World:
"See, this entire thing only happened because of [Archer's] arrogant presumption in disregarding T'Pol's suggesting and just jumping down on the planet without learning more about it. They would have never wound up in a storm, and they would have known about the presence of drugs in the air. However, we get nothing at all that indicates he learned a damn thing from this, and next week when they show up on the planet where the grass farts radon more people will be in danger, but that's nothing surprising from our mad leader, is it."

And in fact the biggest strike against the claim that Enterprise was "limited" due to the prequel setting is, ironically, Enterprise. Season four of Enterprise wasn't great, but it was a giant leap from the first two seasons, and it showed that you could work within the confines of a prequel series and still have a decent series.

Texas_Ben

2010-03-26, 05:27 PM

(television is full of failed teen characters – see Boxy, Battlestar Galactica or Jake from DS9)

Jake was pretty okay. I hated him at first, but he was okay. I thought, and still think, that the actor who played him was UNBELIEVABLY RAGE-INDUCINGLY ANNOYING, but that was the actor, not the character. He was actually pretty well written. And later on the actor got better too. At any rate, Nog in the later seasons, and that one jake episode with siske being stuck in time or whatever, made up for all the fail those two were in the first few seasons.

comicshorse

2010-03-26, 08:19 PM

Posted by Mauther

Third, the Andorrans rocked. Enterprise took some 2 bit race from the original series who also showed up in the background of every other series in franchise, fleshed them out and they were awesome. Andorans are the blue skinned people with antenneas. They should be straight comic relief. Instead, Enterprise made them these arrogant, belligerent, vicious class 1 a-holes (anti-vulcans), who hated everyone with extra special bile for the vulcans. It was like an entire race that had the Napoleon complex.

Absolutely agree. I loved the Andorrans, particularly their convoluted sense of honour ( one of my favourite bits is the Andorran commander telling Archer in a voice packed with contempt how much he hates owing Archer a favour, though of course he risks his life to repay it).
For me the Andorrans are a symptom of where Enterprise went wrong, rather than take minor bits of the universe which were not nailed down and making them there own they choose to take the stuff that they couldn't do anything with ( the Vulcans, the Klingons, the freaking Borg). This was the fundamental mistake that ruined Enterprise IMHO

SolkaTruesilver

2010-03-26, 10:15 PM

Jake was pretty okay. I hated him at first, but he was okay. I thought, and still think, that the actor who played him was UNBELIEVABLY RAGE-INDUCINGLY ANNOYING, but that was the actor, not the character. He was actually pretty well written. And later on the actor got better too. At any rate, Nog in the later seasons, and that one jake episode with siske being stuck in time or whatever, made up for all the fail those two were in the first few seasons.

Another good Jake episode is the one where he is stuck on a colony going in a dirty trench war against the Klingons, and he discovers he is a coward.

Great episode. You could see a glimpse of what is true ugly warfare in the Trekverse in that episode. Why fancy technologies like teleporters and repilicators won't alway make everything neat and dandy like on the Enterprise.

And also, it was great to see somebody not acting like a Mary Sue. One that actually ran away when the explosions started going around him. Or one character that actually shot himself in the foot..

Mauther

2010-03-27, 01:05 AM

What? I thought Jake worked really well in DS9.

EDIT: Also:
That doesn't really excuse the many problems of Enterprise. The claim that their hands were tied due to backstory doesn't, for example, excuse the fact that Archer (in the first two seasons at least) was a bumbling idiot who really had no excuse to be a captain. Because SF Debris (http://sfdebris.com/enterprise/e104.asp) is constantly a better explainer of these things than I am, here's what he said about the episode Strange New World:
"See, this entire thing only happened because of [Archer's] arrogant presumption in disregarding T'Pol's suggesting and just jumping down on the planet without learning more about it. They would have never wound up in a storm, and they would have known about the presence of drugs in the air. However, we get nothing at all that indicates he learned a damn thing from this, and next week when they show up on the planet where the grass farts radon more people will be in danger, but that's nothing surprising from our mad leader, is it."

And in fact the biggest strike against the claim that Enterprise was "limited" due to the prequel setting is, ironically, Enterprise. Season four of Enterprise wasn't great, but it was a giant leap from the first two seasons, and it showed that you could work within the confines of a prequel series and still have a decent series.

For clarification sake, I wasn't saying Enterprise was the greatest show ever. Was it flawed, oh yeah. Archer was flawed, but I liked the fact that they had a captain who was flawed and, rightfully, predjudiced against the Vulcans. It was established through out the series that humans felt the Vulcans were holding Earth back from its rightful place. But how was Archer any more reckless that James T "Its a day that ends in Y I think I'll ignore the Prime Directive" Kirk? Its unfortunate that Archer (or Sisko or Janeway) was not a supercombo master of tactics/archeology/history/diplomacy/covert ops. I can only assume that Archer's personel decisions would have led him to put an untrained boy in the helm rotation, a blind man in charge of engineering, a rage-a-holic in charge of security, and a sexual predator as second in command. Its not like any of the Treks have a realistic command heirarchy. Pretty much every show had almost the entire bridge crew going on away missions.

On the plotlines, its my understanding that the network pushed them away from lore heavy episodes. They wanted it accesible to non-Trekkies. Which seems stupid, if your making a Star Trek show, it seems like you'd want to emphasize that. Clearly, the best episodes were those that tied into the central Trek lore and filled in gaps. When I mentioned the Time War, I meant that if they wanted some over arching action piece, like the Dominion War or the Borg Conflict, they would have been confined to what ever conflicts Trek lore has already established. Personally, I would have thought covering humanity's first steps into outer space and the establishment of the Federation would have provided plenty of material without time travel.

Mauther

2010-03-27, 01:17 AM

Another good Jake episode is the one where he is stuck on a colony going in a dirty trench war against the Klingons, and he discovers he is a coward.

Great episode. You could see a glimpse of what is true ugly warfare in the Trekverse in that episode. Why fancy technologies like teleporters and repilicators won't alway make everything neat and dandy like on the Enterprise.

And also, it was great to see somebody not acting like a Mary Sue. One that actually ran away when the explosions started going around him. Or one character that actually shot himself in the foot..

It's obviously just my personal taste, but I didn't like the Jake character or Nog while they were together. In general, I think writers have it tough trying to create child characters in a grownup setting. I thought the Jake character shot all over the place between bratty kid, fawning son, brooding teenager, and ended up mainly just being annoying rather than a depiction of young man reaching adulthood. While he was in several good episodes, that was largely by dint of the fact that DS9 was more dramatic than TNG. I did think they did well with Nog, but only once they moved past the sniveling Ferengi phase and established real depth with his conflict against traditional Ferengi culture. I'd probably put Nog down as one of the best written young adult characters in television (and I feel like a geek just for writing that).

And spare a moment of sympathy for Wil Weaton. Imagine having to go through your teenage years on television wearing that spandex onesie. That Weaton didn't end up dressing like a clown and killing prostitutes speaks volumes about his character.

Lord Seth

2010-03-27, 01:57 AM

Archer was flawed, but I liked the fact that they had a captain who was flawed and, rightfully, predjudiced against the Vulcans.The issue isn't that he was flawed. That's okay. The problem is that he was SO flawed it was clear he had no business being a Starfleet captain. As always, I feel the need to quote someone who expressed this better than I would have:

It's fine to show an inexperienced crew. It's fine to show characters making mistakes when coming into contact with an alien species for the first time. It's not fine to show characters completely devoid of common sense. It's one thing to be inexperienced, and it's quite another thing to be clueless. This is a fine line that none of the writers—including the show's creators, sadly—could ever really grasp.Link (http://www.agonybooth.com/recaps/Star_Trek/Enterprise/A_Night_in_Sickbay.aspx?Page=2).

But how was Archer any more reckless that James T "Its a day that ends in Y I think I'll ignore the Prime Directive" Kirk?Kirk was smart, Archer wasn't. Kirk made gambles and gambits, but he did so intelligently. Archer just made plain stupid decisions. To make a comparison, Kirk is the one who plays the King's Gambit, Archer is the one who gives up a pawn for no reason at all.

And the Prime Directive? Outside of the fact it's one of the most inconsistently applied plot points I've seen (I don't see how it can say anything other than "Never interfere with any other species ever, unless the plot needs you to"), in the TOS era it seemed fairly flexible, so I can't say that Kirk necessarily was ignoring it.

I can only assume that Archer's personel decisions would have led him to put an untrained boy in the helm rotation,Nothing wrong with that from an in-universe perspective, actually. Wesley saves the ship so often and is so obviously more competent than the rest of the crew that it only makes sense to put him in an important spot. Wesley may have been extremely annoying to the audience, but Picard noticed he was a Gary Stu and was genre savvy enough to know that he should put him in a place where he could use the most of his Gary Stu powers to help everyone out.

a blind man in charge of engineering,A blind man who could see thanks to technology. It doesn't make any sense to critique him for that. Who cares if he's blind if technology lets him see? It's like saying that someone with bad eyesight shouldn't be in charge of engineering, even if they were classes that correct their eyesight to 20/20. Okay, blindness is more extreme than bad eyesight, but if it's corrected, why should it matter?

a rage-a-holic in charge of security,Worf was definitely the most aggressive character on the show, but he was also pretty good at keeping his emotions in check when necessary.

and a sexual predator as second in command.Sexual predator? Seriously? Riker was more subdued than Kirk ever was, and I wouldn't classify Kirk as a sexual predator either.

Personally, I would have thought covering humanity's first steps into outer space and the establishment of the Federation would have provided plenty of material without time travel.It would have, and that's just another indication of how Enterprise was badly handled in the early seasons.