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magic9mushroom
2010-03-17, 07:58 AM
I was thinking, since Phaerimms have all their sorcerer spells as spell-likes, that they could cast while possessing a creature (Fiend of Possession).

1) How would you go about getting Outsider (Evil)? Half-fiend is bad because we've already got 2 LA to buy off. Contemplative and Divine Crusader give the Outsider type too late to get the 4 levels of FoP necessary to possess a creature. Divine Disciple seems the way to go (especially since it saves you the Ritual of Alignment) but I'm wondering if there's something I've missed.

2) What other stuff would be useful for filling out those levels? Mage of the Arcane Order? Tainted Scholar? Something else? Thrallherd would be nice, but I'm not sure if it would fit.

3) Any other suggestions?

The idea is to have this Phaerimm Fiend of Possession get a cohort by some means (possibly Thrallherd for the quick replacement and disposability) who can also cast, and then possess them. Ally Or Enemy gives the cohort a +4 to their casting stat, and they would get 9ths themselves.

Khatoblepas
2010-03-17, 08:51 AM
Since this is TO...
Phaerimm Cloistered Cleric 3/Geomancer 2/Divine Disciple 5/Fiend of Possession 4/Geomancer +5/Tainted Scholar 1 (AFB at the moment, so not sure if this is legal)

Geomancer takes Cleric casting and gives it the Phaerimm Sorcerer shell (cast as spell-like abilities). Tainted Scholar removes the need for ever boosting our own stats, and since we are an Outsider now, we don't suffer the ill effects of Taint. Buy off the Phaerimm's +2 LA. We can cast as a 20th level Sorcerer and a 16th level Cleric (who also casts divine spells as spell like abilities.)

Our cohort, on the other hand...

Half Ogre Crusader 10/Warhulk 7, not in that order. Get some Divine Metamagic Divine Power going on (since the fiend cannot be targetted by spells seperate from the victim, any Personal Range Spells would target the victim too...) and persist as many spells as your secret greasy heart desires.

9th level Arcane Spells, 8th Level Divine Spells, all cast as spell like abilities and based off of Taint. +17 BAB, and you are all set to take on the world. How's a strength score of 44 without even trying ( 18 base +8 (racial) + 14 (Warhulk) + 6 (Divine Power) + 4 (Profane)) sound?

Oh you tiny little abberations. How you are breakable.

FishAreWet
2010-03-17, 05:39 PM
You can pay $$$ for [Evil], the ritual is in Savage Species.

KellKheraptis
2010-03-17, 05:43 PM
You can pay $$$ for [Evil], the ritual is in Savage Species.

Combo with Otherworldly perhaps? As if phaerrim aren't otherworldly enough as is...:P

magic9mushroom
2010-03-17, 07:37 PM
Combo with Otherworldly perhaps? As if phaerrim aren't otherworldly enough as is...:P

I thought about Otherworldly, but it has the downside that you'd need some weird PrC or something to get into it in the first place, since it requires Elf.

Will reply to the others later, am AFB at the moment.

FishAreWet
2010-03-17, 08:14 PM
It actually doesn't require elf. It's elf or on of the regions listed. Which, well, that's just 2 Ranks in Knowledge [local].

But more importantly, Phaerimms don't work like that. They gain a sorcerer level based on they're Age. Only caster level scales with HD.

magic9mushroom
2010-03-17, 09:23 PM
It actually doesn't require elf. It's elf or on of the regions listed. Which, well, that's just 2 Ranks in Knowledge [local].

But more importantly, Phaerimms don't work like that. They gain a sorcerer level based on they're Age. Only caster level scales with HD.

The table also says "Caster level" and is importantly only the stats for a Phaerimm with no class levels.

Since "Caster level" before bonuses or penalties is just your level in the spellcasting class, and it's not stated what effective level of sorcerer you have (unlike the situation with Sylphs) then the effective level would default to the given caster level.

FishAreWet
2010-03-17, 10:46 PM
Page 187 says

A phaerimm's innate magical ability develops with age. A hatching casts spells as a 1st-level sorcerer, while a centuries-old revered elder is a 19th level caster.

EDIT: But the build is still great to abuse Geomancer with.

Godskook
2010-03-17, 10:56 PM
Reading your TO threads is a lot like being in a Freddy Krueger movie. You know its coming, but somehow, it still scares you when you see it.

FishAreWet
2010-03-17, 11:33 PM
I suggest Archivist base and POA into a Ethergaunt, Black. That gives you ALL divine spellcasting and 17th Wizard. (Note, the stub is from the hip, I didn't double check the books or anything).

Archivist 5/Geomancer 10/Fiend of Possession 5

Keep it simple. All divine spells in print, 9th level wizard, and they're both fired off as SpA. And you can pretend like Sorcerer works too to double your Arcane casting! then go possess something big. Or possess something, Share Transcend Mortality and run away!

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-03-17, 11:55 PM
Reading your TO threads is a lot like being in a Freddy Krueger movie. You know its coming, but somehow, it still scares you when you see it.

Seeing TO by Magic9Mushroom is like seeing a movie with Joss Wheaton as director... you know that it's worth watching, even if you do want to strangle the bastard by the time you're done with it.

Too bad you have to choose your spells with Phaerim, like a Sorcerer... otherwise Rainbow Servant would be the ultimate add-on to this build. Casting as a twenty-something arcane caster with every Cleric spell ever tacked on? Sounds like a win to me.

magic9mushroom
2010-03-18, 04:17 AM
Okay, I'm back with my books, so here goes.


It actually doesn't require elf. It's elf or on of the regions listed. Which, well, that's just 2 Ranks in Knowledge [local].

No. I looked it up, the requirement is:

Elf (Evermeet OR Sildeyuir) OR Deep Imaskari (Underdark [Deep Imaskar]) OR spirit folk (Ashane).

Now, a Phaerimm isn't any of those, and I'm not sure how you'd go about getting to count as one of those barring Wishing or Manipulate Form.


But more importantly, Phaerimms don't work like that. They gain a sorcerer level based on they're Age. Only caster level scales with HD.

The relevant quotes are:

(in the flavour text) "A phaerimm's innate magical ability develops with age. A hatchling casts spells as a 1st-level sorcerer, while a centuries-old revered elder is a 19th-level caster."

(in the combat section) "Spells: A phaerimm casts arcane spells as a sorcerer (caster level equals phaerimm's character level). Phaerimms use their sorcerer spells as if they were spell-like abilities, so they require no verbal, somatic, or material components."

(in the Phaerimm Abilities by Age table) "Caster Level: Hatchling 1st, Juvenile 4th, Young Adult 7th, Adult 10th, Mature Adult 13th, Elder 16th, Revered Elder 19th"

(under Phaerimm Characters) "A phaerimm's favoured class is sorcerer. Its sorcerer levels stack with its base spellcasting ability for the purpose of determining spells known, spells per day, and other effects dependent on caster level."

The flavour text is correct for a Hatchling straight off there without any form of advancement. However, assuming it takes precedence over the Spells entry makes no sense, since that text does not specify anything about any of the other age categories. It's a specific case of the general rule, which is "Phaerimms cast as sorcerers of level X, X = character level".


EDIT: But the build is still great to abuse Geomancer with.

Just checked Geomancer, and I was wrong, it does work. On the other hand, you need a lot of levels in it to get those benefits for the top-level spells. Not good.


I suggest Archivist base and POA into a Ethergaunt, Black. That gives you ALL divine spellcasting and 17th Wizard. (Note, the stub is from the hip, I didn't double check the books or anything).

Monster Manual V notwithstanding, I refuse to accept Spells being an (Ex) ability. That's where I draw the line. It does not Make Sense.


Archivist 5/Geomancer 10/Fiend of Possession 5

Keep it simple. All divine spells in print, 9th level wizard, and they're both fired off as SpA. And you can pretend like Sorcerer works too to double your Arcane casting! then go possess something big. Or possess something, Share Transcend Mortality and run away!

Well, I can see a big problem with that, namely the lack of ways to get Outsider (Evil).

Here's my own shot at it.

Hatchling Phaerimm Archivist 2/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3/Divine Disciple 5/Fiend of Possession 4/Cabalist Shadowcraft Mage 5/Tainted Scholar 1.

(Note, there's 5 levels of Shadowcraft Mage because I couldn't think of much else to stick in there. Feel free to offer suggestions.)

Nice part is... you're got the Evil subtype, so you're immune to negative effects of taint. So you have infinite DCs and spells/day. Talk about synergy.

Things I'm looking for:

- ways to get the Outsider type in 5 levels or less without Divine Disciple (being tied to a god is bad). Perfect would be something that advanced Psionics, but I don't think such exists.

FishAreWet
2010-03-18, 11:09 AM
""A phaerimm's innate magical ability develops with age. A hatchling casts spells as a 1st-level sorcerer, while a centuries-old revered elder is a 19th-level caster.""

""Spells: A phaerimm casts arcane spells as a sorcerer (caster level equals phaerimm's character level). Phaerimms use their sorcerer spells as if they were spell-like abilities, so they require no verbal, somatic, or material components.""

They don't take precedent over each other. They can both be correct. Effective sorcerer level = you're phaerimm age(denoted by HD), and caster level = all HD.

And note, if they base give sorcerer spellcasting on all HD, why would the class stack with the monster? Using you're reading of the ability then Phaerimm Sorcerer 20 should have an effective sorcerer level of 40, right?


And it seems you're right about Otherworldly. I'll try to figure out a way for outsider. Is Phaerimm a +1 or +2? There are +2 templates that grant it... but hitting +4 ruins buyoff. And as I said before, you can buy [Evil] in Savage Species.

Geomancer is worth it. Unless you use SCM then you get basically the same effects but only for two schools. Anyways, having everything count as a SpA is amazing. Hell, wasn't that the point of the build? That you'd only be able to cast the spells while possessing someone because they're SpA?

Archivist 3/Geomancer 1/Tainted Scholar 2/Fiend of Possession 4/Legacy Champion 10

Once again, didn't bother to check prereqs, but I think it could work. This should grants Spell Versatility 9, 19th level spellcasting, Tainted Scholar stupidity, and I want to say FoP has some silly scaling that can be broken with LC.Damn, doesn't work like I hoped. Loses 2 levels and only progresses a class.

magic9mushroom
2010-03-18, 08:22 PM
""A phaerimm's innate magical ability develops with age. A hatchling casts spells as a 1st-level sorcerer, while a centuries-old revered elder is a 19th-level caster.""

""Spells: A phaerimm casts arcane spells as a sorcerer (caster level equals phaerimm's character level). Phaerimms use their sorcerer spells as if they were spell-like abilities, so they require no verbal, somatic, or material components.""

They don't take precedent over each other. They can both be correct. Effective sorcerer level = you're phaerimm age(denoted by HD), and caster level = all HD.

Where are you getting "effective Sorc level = HD"? This is never stated. The only statements that have to do with effective Sorc level are that a hatchling phaerimm casts as a 1st level Sorc and a Revered Elder casts as a 19th level Sorc. So, unless you take the "Spells" entry to mean effective level as well as CL, Juvenile-Elder Phaerimm don't actually have any given Sorc level.

And the Spells entry, if taken the only way that does specify those, does give them casting = character level + Sorc levels.


And note, if they base give sorcerer spellcasting on all HD, why would the class stack with the monster? Using you're reading of the ability then Phaerimm Sorcerer 20 should have an effective sorcerer level of 40, right?

Correct. The racial spellcasting levels = Character Level, and then Sorc levels explicitly stack with that.


And it seems you're right about Otherworldly. I'll try to figure out a way for outsider. Is Phaerimm a +1 or +2? There are +2 templates that grant it... but hitting +4 ruins buyoff. And as I said before, you can buy [Evil] in Savage Species.

Hatchling Phaerimm is +2. I know about buying [Evil], I mentioned it in the OP, in fact, but I can't find a better means than Divine Disciple to get Outsider anyway, so might as well save the cash. If I knew a better way to get Outsider that didn't give [Evil], I'd indeed use a Ritual of Alignment.


Geomancer is worth it. Unless you use SCM then you get basically the same effects but only for two schools. Anyways, having everything count as a SpA is amazing. Hell, wasn't that the point of the build? That you'd only be able to cast the spells while possessing someone because they're SpA?

Silent+Stilled spells are a purely mental action as well. Clunky, but you just can't fit enough Geomancer levels in there, because you've got 5 Divine Disciple levels, 4+ Fiend of Possession levels, at least 4 levels before you can start taking PrCs (Metaphysical Spellshaper being the big exception) and 1 level of Tainted Scholar, leaving only a maximum of 6 Geomancer levels.

The at-will Wish SLA should render that mostly irrelevant anyway (Tainted Spellcasting + Evil subtype + Phaerimm Spells).

KellKheraptis
2010-03-18, 11:58 PM
Hell, couldn't you take all 10 levels of geomancer if you had the Outsider type (which mind you, it's only 2 ranks in Knowledge (Local) to get Otherworldly and $$ for Evil)? Divine Disciple would be rendered a moot point at least, and you only need three levels of SCM. Would 7 levels of Geomancer be enough?

magic9mushroom
2010-03-19, 02:28 AM
Hell, couldn't you take all 10 levels of geomancer if you had the Outsider type (which mind you, it's only 2 ranks in Knowledge (Local) to get Otherworldly and $$ for Evil)? Divine Disciple would be rendered a moot point at least, and you only need three levels of SCM. Would 7 levels of Geomancer be enough?

Please explain how 2 ranks of Know(local) allows you to gain a regional feat that you do not qualify for.

If you're referring to the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting rule that you can take an extra regional feat per 2 ranks of Know(local), then a) that doesn't let you take a feat that you don't qualify for (and you don't qualify for Otherworldly) and b) that is explicitly superseded by the PGtF rule (page 33).

But it's a moot point anyway, because with Metaphysical Spellshaper you can Silence and Still all your spells, allowing you to cast them anyway.