View Full Version : [3.5] Spells that damage wisdom or will saves

2010-03-17, 02:30 PM
Title says it all, I was hoping to either create or be linked to a list of spells that either damage wisdom (hopefully ones without saves are out there, like a wisdom version of Shivering Touch) or will saves.

I know Enervation is a good catch-all since it damages all saves (among other things..) but I am looking for something with more kick to it.

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-17, 02:34 PM
Wall of Essentia, Magic of Incarnum, deals 1d4 Wis damage to creatures that pass through it and don't have an Essentia pool with no save. Considering how many creatures actually do have one, it's effectively a No Save Screw You wall of Wis damage. Just need to play Pinball with the enemy (a Dungeoncrasher Fighter equiped with a Spellguard Ring from Complete Mage, or an Incarnate with the Spellward Shirt bound to his Heart chakra would do this job wonderfully).

2010-03-17, 02:35 PM
Mind fog is an obvious one.

Any effect that inflicts a fear condition impacts all saves. Examples include cause fear, fear, scare, and symbol of fear.

Likewise, the sickened condition inflicts a save penalty, so ray of sickness and brimstone blast are helpful.

Some spells directly impact saves without applying a condition, like curse, doom, and bane.

2010-03-17, 02:38 PM
Awaken Sin (SpC)
Love's Lament (SpC)
Mind Poison (SpC)
Phantasmal Assailants (SpC)

2010-03-17, 03:12 PM
Bestow Greater Curse is even better; drop their wisdom to 1 in a single blow.

2010-03-17, 03:53 PM
Touch of Idiocy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/touchOfIdiocy.htm) - It's only a penalty but there's no save and it applies to all 3 mental stats. Not too shabby for a 2nd-level spell.

2010-03-17, 05:16 PM
Some good stuff here so far, keep em comin!

Touch of Idiocy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/touchOfIdiocy.htm) - It's only a penalty but there's no save and it applies to all 3 mental stats. Not too shabby for a 2nd-level spell.

This is perfect, I am gonna have to pick that up next level...

2010-03-18, 04:23 PM
Maximize touch of idiocy to guarantee -3 to Will saves and -6 to every spellcasting/manifesting ability score. Well, so long as you can land or avoid having to make a melee touch attack. And your opponent doesn't have Spell Resistance. And isn't immune to mind-affecting spells. And... Well, OK, maybe not quite "guarantee", but it's pretty good.

How often is a spell that's negated by a successful Will saving throw going to be a good choice for lowering Will saves? In this context, that's a problem with several of the spells that have been suggested. It's also a problem with mind fog in general.

2010-03-18, 05:45 PM
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, which is why I liked Touch of Idiocy. I don't have to worry about spell resistance (Assay Resistance is a kickass spell) nor am I too concerned about getting into melee, but yeah mind affecting immunities will probably suck.