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View Full Version : Clarification on an attack routine



Frosty
2010-03-17, 02:52 PM
I want to make sure I'm getting the number of attacks, the attack bonuses, and attack damage correctly since I may have to deal with something like this sometime soon. Please check my results.

Example Character:
Warforged Monk 2/Fighter 15
Str: 18; Dex: 24
BAB: 16
Relevant feats: TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Weapon Finesse
Assume that the weapons are non-masterwork weapons.
Primary weapon: Unarmed Strike
Off-hand weapon: Nunchaku

Power Attacking and taking a -3 penalty, Flurry routine utilizing all attacks:

Primary attack 1: +16 (16 BAB + 7 Dex - 2 Flurry - 2 TWF - 3 PA) Unarmed Strike; 1d6 + 4 (str) + 3 (PA)
Primary attack 2: +16 (as above. Flurry extra attack) Unarmed Strike; 1d6 + 4 (str) + 3 (PA)
Primary attack 3: +11 (as above, - 5 iterative) Unarmed Strike; 1d6 + 4 (str) + 3 (PA)
Primary attack 4: +6 (as above, - 10 iterative) Unarmed Strike; 1d6 + 4 (str) + 3 (PA)
Primary attack 5: +1 (as above, - 15 iterative) Unarmed Strike; 1d6 + 4 (str) + 3 (PA)

Off-hand attack 1: +16 (16 BAB + 7 Dex - 2 Flurry - 2 TWF - 3 PA) Nunchaku; 1d6 + 2 (1/2 str for off-hand) + 0 (PA doesn't work for light weapons except for natural attacks or Unarmed Strikes)
Off-hand attack 2: +11 (as above, -5 iterative) Nunchaku; 1d6 + 2 (1/2 str) + 0 PA
Off-hand attack 3: +6 (as above, -10 iterative) Nunchaku; 1d6 + 2 (1/2 str) + 0 PA

Natural attack: +11 (16 BAB + 7 Dex [AFAIK Natural Attacks count as Light] -2 Flurry - 2 TWF - 3 PA - 5 secondary natural attack [when mixing manufatured and natural attacks, the natural attack is by default treated as a secondary weapon]) Slam; 1d4 + 2 (1/2 str for secondary weapon) + 3 (PA)

Douglas
2010-03-17, 03:35 PM
When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham).

I think you'll have to remove the slam from your routine.

Other than that, it looks correct.

Frosty
2010-03-17, 03:41 PM
Terrific. And if the monk didn't flurry, and I removed the flurry attack, and added a +2 to all the attacks then it also looks good?

Eldariel
2010-03-17, 03:44 PM
Terrific. And if the monk didn't flurry, and I removed the flurry attack, and added a +2 to all the attacks then it also looks good?

You only ever have a mainhand and an offhand attack; your natural attacks may be your offhand attacks when combined with manufactured attacks, but that means you can only do one weapon attack (chain).

So your choices are doing mainhand and offhand, mainhand and natural or...well, I guess you could use your offhand as mainhand and then couple that with naturals.

Frosty
2010-03-17, 03:53 PM
In the MM, the Maralith is shown as using Multiweapon fighting (one main hand longsword. 5 off-hand longsword) AND a natural attack, so your statement is false.

Eldariel
2010-03-17, 04:01 PM
In the MM, the Maralith is shown as using Multiweapon fighting (one main hand longsword. 5 off-hand longsword) AND a natural attack, so your statement is false.

Hm, really? That's peculiar. Monster Manual [Pg. 299] says:

"Natural and Manufactured Weapons: If a creature has both a manufactured weapon and natural weapons, it usually uses its manufactured weapon as its primary attack (and receives multiple attacks with that weapon, if its base attack bonus is +6 or higher), and uses its natural weapons as secondary attacks (–5 penalty on attack rolls, and 1/2 Strength bonus on damage rolls).
While a humanoid fighting with two weapons takes a –2 penalty (or worse) on its primary attack, a monster fighting with a handheld weapon and a natural weapon at the same times does not take this penalty—the natural weapon is a secondary attack, and that’s all."

I guess the Marilith could fall under the "usually"-clause, but that seems unlikely. That specifically limits the creature to "primary and secondary attacks" and makes no mention of secondaries being able to contain manufactured weapons in addition to natural weapons.

I suppose you could assume you can just slam all remaining attacks into the "secondaries" by that example. Interesting.

Starbuck_II
2010-03-17, 04:24 PM
In the MM, the Maralith is shown as using Multiweapon fighting (one main hand longsword. 5 off-hand longsword) AND a natural attack, so your statement is false.

If you use the Natural attack as a secondary you can combine them with manufactoted (also can't use same limb: no sword + slam from same arm).

Frosty
2010-03-17, 05:01 PM
If you use the Natural attack as a secondary you can combine them with manufactoted (also can't use same limb: no sword + slam from same arm).

The warforged is a monk. He can use his unarmed attack as a HEADBUTT or KICK if he has to. His arm (or whatever part he uses for a slam attack) is definitely free in order to do so.

Tinydwarfman
2010-03-17, 05:03 PM
The warforged is a monk. He can use his unarmed attack as a HEADBUTT or KICK if he has to. His arm (or whatever part he uses for a slam attack) is definitely free in order to do so.

I prefer to think of a warforged slam attack as a hip bump.
"Taste the wrath of my booty!" "Bite my shiny metal ass!" :smalltongue:

tyckspoon
2010-03-17, 05:09 PM
"Natural and Manufactured Weapons: If a creature has both a manufactured weapon and natural weapons, it usually uses its manufactured weapon as its primary attack (and receives multiple attacks with that weapon, if its base attack bonus is +6 or higher), and uses its natural weapons as secondary attacks (–5 penalty on attack rolls, and 1/2 Strength bonus on damage rolls).
While a humanoid fighting with two weapons takes a –2 penalty (or worse) on its primary attack, a monster fighting with a handheld weapon and a natural weapon at the same times does not take this penalty—the natural weapon is a secondary attack, and that’s all."


You're stuck on the idea of a multiple-weapon attack being 'secondary' to a main-hand attack, which is incorrect; they're part of the primary BAB-derived attack, regardless of the off-hand/mainhand terminology. The section quoted can be simplified as "a creature that uses both BAB-based iteratives and natural weapons can attack with both. All natural weapons used this way strike as secondary natural attacks and do not cause penalties to the BAB-based attacks."

Frosty
2010-03-18, 01:25 PM
I prefer to think of a warforged slam attack as a hip bump.
"Taste the wrath of my booty!" "Bite my shiny metal ass!" :smalltongue:

What about a hip THRUST insteaD? Or, if I take Bloodstorm Blade and start THROWING my weapons...