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Sophismata
2010-03-18, 09:17 AM
For those who don't know, the Ordained Champion is a 5-level prestige class in the Complete Champion that focuses on combat.

Now, here's what I find strange. The class says that, "Clerics make the best and most effective ordained champions," and for the most part I agree. The signature ability of the prestige class is spontaneous War Domain casting combined with automatic War Domain quickening.

However, when looking at the entry requirements and first-level abilities, we get this:

* The class requires the Weapon Focus feat in order to enter.
* Entry in to the class grants the War domain for free.
* The War domain's ability is Weapon Focus.

Now, if you already have the War Domain (and used it to qualify for Ordained Champion), you are allowed to choose another bonus domain instead. This makes sense, and all is well.

But, if you actually qualified via Weapon Focus, your only alternative is this:

* You may sacrifice up to two Domain granted powers for bonus fighter feats.
* You may not sacrifice the War Domain power.

Which specifically screws you over on a feat.

I don't think I'm misreading this, so does anyone have any other insight?

Yes, one can qualify via the War Domain to make things simple, but I'm trying to create a Wis SAD build, and Swordsage grants a free weapon focus.

Alternatively, is there any other RAW way of ditching a domain power without losing the spell slots. Also visa versa, out of curiosity.

Soonerdj
2010-03-18, 09:34 AM
Alternatively, is there any other RAW way of ditching a domain power without losing the spell slots. Also visa versa, out of curiosity.

If I understand how the work correctly, You should be able to do it with Devotion Feats in Complete Champion. I'll have to check though.


Once per day, when fighting defensively as a standard or full-round action, you take a -3 penalty on all attack rolls in a round and gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC in the same round. When you attain 7th level, your penalty on attack rolls drops to -2 and your dodge bonus increases to +4. When you attain 15th level, your penalty on attack rolls drops to -1 and your dodge bonus increases to +5. This bonus stacks with the bonus to AC granted by the Combat Expertise feat. This benefit is an extraordinary ability.

Sliver
2010-03-18, 09:50 AM
Alternatively, is there any other RAW way of ditching a domain power without losing the spell slots. Also visa versa, out of curiosity.

You mean like the Divine Restoration feat? (give up a domain power to get spontaneous casting of restoration spells)

^ You sac the entire domain for devotion feats.

Pluto
2010-03-18, 10:19 AM
Use Domain Substitution (CC) to trade the War Domain out for something more interesting?

Sophismata
2010-03-18, 09:54 PM
Thanks for the assistance. Substituting Domains for Devotion feats doesn't work, because you lose the entire Domain.

However, Divine Restoration (Dungeonscape ACF) works, allowing you to trade a Domain power for an additional spontaneous casting list.

Can anyone think of any others?

Pluto
2010-03-18, 10:19 PM
Thanks for the assistance. Substituting Domains for Devotion feats doesn't work, because you lose the entire Domain.
What I meant was the Substitute Domain spell from Complete Champion.

Just swap the War domain for a different domain every [CL#] days and you get to avoid redundant Weapon Focuses (and the redundant Cleric/War domain spell list) entirely.

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-18, 11:10 PM
Thanks for the assistance. Substituting Domains for Devotion feats doesn't work, because you lose the entire Domain.

However, Divine Restoration (Dungeonscape ACF) is perfect, allowing you to trade a Domain power for an additional spontaneous casting list.

Can anyone think of any others?

Never mind that War Devotion is even worse than Combat Expertise to begin with...


Really, I think they may have errataed it.

Sophismata
2010-03-19, 01:05 AM
What I meant was the Substitute Domain spell from Complete Champion.

Dear Lord, that's perfect. Re-reading Ordained Champion, it gives you the ability to spontaneously cast spells from the War Domain spell list, but it doesn't imply or mention that you have to possess the War Domain (it's just assumed).

Swordsage can give me Wis to AC and Weapon Focus, and then I can Substitute one of my cleric domains to War when I take Ordained Champion, snag the bonus domain (because I "already have" the War Domain), and be home free.

When I dismiss Substitute Domain, or when it expires, I still qualify for Ordained Champion, and can still spontaneously cast quickened Divine Favour, Flamestrike, Blade Barrier and the like.

Serenity / Paladin of Tyranny should give Wis to saves, Cloistered Cleric for casting and domains, Swordsage 2 gives wis to AC, and I can Martial Study to grab Devoted Spirit, then move into RKV and trade out the Martial Study for another feat.

Person_Man
2010-03-19, 09:22 AM
You could also just accept having two Weapon Focus feats, and pick up something like Anvil of Thunder, which is an awesome feat with lousy pre-reqs.

Maerok
2010-08-17, 10:21 PM
Would Duskblade's Arcane Channel 'stack' with Ordained Champion's Channel Spell? Neither states that the spell has to be divine or arcane, just one you can cast.

TooManyBadgers
2010-08-17, 10:27 PM
Would Duskblade's Arcane Channel 'stack' with Ordained Champion's Channel Spell? Neither states that the spell has to be divine or arcane, just one you can cast.
Why not?

And you could even throw in a spell-storing weapon and Smiting Spell for good measure.

Maerok
2010-08-17, 10:47 PM
Well that too. I'm trying to find a good full BAB base class for my build and Duskblade seems to work (it's arcane spells would be good for buffs and let divine do the heavy lifting).



*Sorry about the necromancy! Accidentally responded to the wrong post that I had opened. :smallredface:*