[3.5] Crafty Fighter Variant (PEACH)

[Geiger Counter]

This basically an attempt to make the fighter into a viable class beyond just a two level dip.

A Crafty fighter gains 4+Int modifier (x4 at first level) skills per level and adds use magic device to their skills known. A Crafty Fighter loses proficiency with heavy armor and his first fighter bonus feat and gains item creation, artisan bonus, retain essence, skill mastery and craft reserve as an artificer. A Crafty Fighter is treated as though they have a caster level equal to their fighter levels for the purposes of what feats they can take. Also a crafty fighter can take any item creation feat instead of his normal fighter feats.

See Artificer abilities here
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060328a

Enchanted Armory
You can cast either Magic Weapon Greater or Magic Vestment as if you were a spell caster.
Prerequisites: Any mental stat 13 or higher, BAB +6.
Benefit: You can cast either Magic Weapon Greater or Magic Vestment. You must choose which mental stat you cast this spell with which you cannot change, if that stat ever drops below 13 you cannot cast this spell. You must meet the verbal, somatic and material components for each spell (Except for the divine focus for magic vestment which is replaced by the same material components as magic weapon greater). Also you must have a full 8 hours rest, as most casters require. Arcane Spell Failure still applies (regardless of which mental stat you chose), which is why it's a good idea to take your armor off when enchanting it. You treat your BAB as your caster level. You receive one casting of either Magic Weapon Greater or Magic Vestment equal to one third your BAB rounding down; the duration of each casting is 24 hours.
Special: A fighter may select Enchanted Armory as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Unstoppable
You can cast Jump, Spider Climb or Water Walk as if you were a spell caster.
Prerequisites: 9 ranks in either climb, jump or balance, Any mental stat 13 or higher.
Benefit: With a minimum of 9 skill ranks in Jump you can cast Jump, you treat your skill ranks in Jump minus 3 as your caster level for this spell alone. With a minimum of 9 skill ranks in climb you can cast Spider Climb, you treat your skill ranks in climb minus 3 as your caster level for this spell alone. With a minimum of 9 skill ranks in balance you can cast Water Walk, you treat your skill ranks in balance minus 3 as your caster level for this spell alone. For each spell, you cast them a number of times a day equal to one-third your caster level. You must choose which mental stat you use to cast spells with, which you cannot change. If that stat ever drops below 13 you cannot cast any spells this feat provides. You must meet the verbal, somatic and material components for each spell (Except for the divine focus for water walk, which is replaced by a water beetle that need not be alive which must be consumed as material components). Arcane Spell Failure still applies (regardless of which mental stat you chose). Also you must have a full 8 hours rest, as most casters require. The duration of each spell is 24 hours.
Special: A fighter may select Unstoppable as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Obtain Animal Companion
You gain an animal companion as a ranger does.
Prerequisites: BAB +4, 4 ranks in handle animal.
Benefit: You gain an animal companion at half the druid pace using your total class level. You do not gain any faster a progression if you have levels that would normally stack for the purposes of an animal companion.
Special: A fighter may select Obtain Animal Companion as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Improved Demoralize
Prerequisites: Cha 13, Power Attack.
Benefit: You can demoralize and opponent as a move action.
Special: A fighter may select Improved Demoralize as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Greater Improved Demoralize
Prerequisites: Cha 13, Power Attack, Improved Demoralize.
Benefit: You can demoralize all opponents in 30 feet as a move action.
Special: A fighter may select Greater Improved Demoralize as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Insightful Strike
Prerequisites: BAB+3, Weapon Finesse.
Benefit: Same as the swashbuckler ability.
Special: A fighter may select Insightful Strike as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Diamond Soul
You gain spell resistance
Prerequisites: 14 ranks in any skill.
Benefit: You gain spell resistance equal to your current HD+10+any mental stat modifier. You must choose which mental stat to gain a spell resistance bonus from when taking this class and you cannot change it. If your mental stat becomes a penalty you apply that penalty to the spell resistance you receive from this feat.
Special: A fighter may select Diamond Soul as one of his fighter bonus feats.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Interesting concept, but I wouldn't say it makes the fighter-qua-fighter viable. It either makes you a more melee-friendly yet sub-par artificer or a more self-sufficient yet less skilled UMD rogue, but there's nothing in here that really makes the fighter better at anything besides mimicking a caster; you've shifted the "fighters are useless without buying tons of magical gear" problem to be the "fighters are useless without making tons of magical gear" problem.

[Temotei]

Eh. I'd prefer to play an artificer if I wanted to make things. If I wanted to use magic devices, I'd play a class with more skill points and a use for Charisma. If I wanted a benefit from Intelligence, I'd play a factotum or warblade.

Seriously though, the above post got the good points done for me.

[Ashtagon]

Exactly how useful are the item creation feats without actual spell-casting ability? Most of the worthwhile items require that you be able to cast certain spells.

[Temotei]

Exactly how useful are the item creation feats without actual spell-casting ability? Most of the worthwhile items require that you be able to cast certain spells.


gains item creation, artisan bonus, retain essence, skill mastery and craft reserve as an artificer.

Here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060328a).

Artificers are cool. :smallamused:

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Exactly how useful are the item creation feats without actual spell-casting ability? Most of the worthwhile items require that you be able to cast certain spells.

Presumably "item creation...as an artificer" means the artificer's ability to substitute UMD checks for requirements, though if so that should be clarified.

EDIT: aaand Temotei has "interrupt posters as a ninja of his class level." :smallannoyed:

[Geiger Counter]

I just made up the Enchanted Armory feat and it really boosts the utility of the crafty fighter and makes it similar to the arcane archer, what do you think of the class now?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

I just made up the Enchanted Armory feat and it really boosts the utility of the crafty fighter and makes it similar to the arcane archer, what do you think of the class now?

That doesn't really change the class itself; it's a nice add-on, but the class still has the same problems. If you were to remove the CL prerequisite and change all references to CL to fighter level, however, that would be a good feat for fighters in general.

[Temotei]

EDIT: aaand Timotei has "interrupt posters as a ninja of his class level." :smallannoyed:

Indeed. :smallcool:

I kind of want to sig that, correcting the spelling on my name. :smallamused:

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Indeed. :smallcool:

I kind of want to sig that, correcting the spelling on my name. :smallamused:

*cough cough* Correct what spelling? You must have misquoted me. :smallwink:

Feel free to sig it.

[Temotei]

*cough cough* Correct what spelling? You must have misquoted me. :smallwink:

Feel free to sig it.

:smallbiggrin: Nice.

[Geiger Counter]

Made some updates.

[Roderick_BR]

Weird. Give fighters the ability to hold their own weight, even if not so much losing only a armor proficiency and a feat, and people say it's bad?! Heck, it's suggested he get UMD, the skill that most people say is the difference between a good and a bad non-casting classes, and everyone says it's bad? I just don't understand this forum anymore.

I like the idea of fighters being able to improvise stuff and make stuff to compensate for their lack of special abilities. And extra skill points area ALWAYS welcome. Makes him way more versatile than the core fighter.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Weird. Give fighters the ability to hold their own weight, even if not so much losing only a armor proficiency and a feat, and people say it's bad?! Heck, it's suggested he get UMD, the skill that most people say is the difference between a good and a bad non-casting classes, and everyone says it's bad? I just don't understand this forum anymore.

This doesn't give fighters the ability to hold their own weight, it gives them the ability to continue relying on magic items as a crutch. Yes, a fighter can now ensure he has exactly the items he needs, and at a cheaper price, but all that does is let him continue doing what he's been doing for a while. It also gives him the ability to be a sub-par mage, but UMD rogues have been doing that for a while as well.

[Roderick_BR]

This doesn't give fighters the ability to hold their own weight, it gives them the ability to continue relying on magic items as a crutch. Yes, a fighter can now ensure he has exactly the items he needs, and at a cheaper price, but all that does is let him continue doing what he's been doing for a while. It also gives him the ability to be a sub-par mage, but UMD rogues have been doing that for a while as well.
I still don't see how being a "sub-par mage" is bad compared to not being anything mage. And the OP's suggestion is not to reduce gear dependency (you can either use a gish for that, or use Tome of Battle), but make it more available without depend too much on other casters.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

I still don't see how being a "sub-par mage" is bad compared to not being anything mage.

If you want to cast spells, cast spells using your class; paying money for the privilege isn't going to help you. If you want to use equipment to reinforce your actual class abilities, pick a class with actual class abilities. If you want to absolutely require magic items to function, play a fighter; whether you make the items yourself or not doesn't matter.


And the OP's suggestion is not to reduce gear dependency (you can either use a gish for that, or use Tome of Battle), but make it more available without depend too much on other casters.

That's fine, but that doesn't matter. There are games where the DM says "You'll get what items I want to give you and you'll like it!" and there are games where the DM says "Alrighty, you've made it back to town, crack open the books and tell me what you want"--in either kind of game or anything in between, the fact that the fighter is reliant on magic items puts him at a disadvantage. He needs to spend money (and time, if he or another PC crafts them) to be basically competent, he needs to spend lots of money to have the defenses and utility necessary at higher levels, and he's still outclassed by casters because all he does, fundamentally, is learn how to hit things harder and in different ways.

The only way to fix fighters' gear dependency is to remove said dependency; making it cheaper to get the necessary gear doesn't cut it.

[Geiger Counter]

The only way to fix fighters' gear dependency is to remove said dependency; making it cheaper to get the necessary gear doesn't cut it.

Do any of the feats I just made do that yet?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Do any of the feats I just made do that yet?

Somewhat, yes. Insightful Strike is nice but doesn't really help; the fighter doesn't really need more and higher numbers, he needs more options. Walking on water is a new option; spell resistance is an option; +X to attack rolls isn't. Otherwise, these are a good start; they don't fix the problem by any means, but they are good spot-fixes for parts of it.