Why are the mace and flail bludgeoning weapons?

[Defiant]

And not bludgeoning and piercing weapons?

The damage is not in the fact that you're bashing someone in the head with a metal ball. It's in the fact that you're bashing them with a spiked ball.

The spikes should be dealing piercing damage alongside the bludgeoning blow if they actually sink in all the way and you still have momentum going in your blow.

Is it a balancing issue?

[Ryumaru]

Not particularly. I just think it's Wizards trying to reduce giving everything all the same descriptor.

For the same reason that the greatsword, or the longsword is slashing. Rather than slashing or piercing.

The flail does seem a bit weird though, considering the morningstar -does- get piercing and bludgeoning.

[AslanCross]

Maces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(club)) weren't really spiked. Those were morning stars.

Flails (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flail_(weapon)) were either spiked or not. Those that were spiked were also called morning stars. If I'm not mistaken, "morning star" historically referred more to the type of head rather than the entire weapon.

Don't take the art in the PHB to be definitive. Several of them were actually very wrong. :P (The warhammer, for example)

[Defiant]

Maces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(club)) weren't really spiked. Those were morning stars.

Flails (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flail_(weapon)) were either spiked or not. Those that were spiked were also called morning stars. If I'm not mistaken, "morning star" historically referred more to the type of head rather than the entire weapon.

Don't take the art in the PHB to be definitive. Several of them were actually very wrong. :P (The warhammer, for example)

And the ridiculous contraption that is the spiked chain? :smallamused:

I guess that does make sense. I shall now imagine in my head when a character of mine wields one of those, that he's wielding a wimpy non-spiked version.

[AslanCross]

Yeah, the spiked chain looked retarded in the PHB. Some other depictions of it are a bit better (see the Reach Weapons thread).

[Yuki Akuma]

Why do people think maces have spikes? Maces are just metal clubs.

A mace can have spikes, but in that case it's a morning star in D&D terms.

[unre9istered]

I think people imagine a "flanged mace" when they think of a mace. A flanged mace does have spiky little protrusions for concentrating the force of the mace, I believe to make it penetrate armor better. These spikes are rather dull though and the damage was almost entirely from impact.

[Yora]

It's still a weapon that crushes bones and deals impact trauma. But it does not impale you. When we speak of a dagger as an rpg weapon, the blade is usually long enough to pierce all the way through a humanoid creature and exit on the other side. Even with a flanged mace, penetration would only be 5 cm at the most and except for the head, vital organs are deep enough inside the body to not be pierced by such an attack. It's really mostly the force of impact that damages limbs and organs.

[magic9mushroom]

For a good picture of a mace in D&D, look at the depiction of St. Cuthbert (with Cudgel) or of his cudgel itself. That's a mace, and it should be reasonably evident why that deals bludgeoning damage.

[adecoy95]

pfft, its all about the board with a nail in it (spiked club)

[Cyrion]

And historically, the damage done by the mace and flail also had the potential to be the lingering death kind. It was not the actual bludgeoning damage to your body that killed you; your breastplate got crushed and kept you from breathing, and you couldn't get out of it...

One of my favorite D&D weapon morphs is the holy water sprinkler. Classed as a morning star in 1E, it's actually a black powder weapon in all of the historical references I've looked at. It does have a spiked head that you could, in theory, blugeon people with, but it's a hand gun. It's got a short lever arm as a bludgeon and just isn't going to be terribly effective.

[Ravens_cry]

Besides, isn't a Morningstar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#tableWeapons) bludgeoning AND piercing?

[DragoonWraith]

One of my favorite D&D weapon morphs is the holy water sprinkler. Classed as a morning star in 1E, it's actually a black powder weapon in all of the historical references I've looked at. It does have a spiked head that you could, in theory, blugeon people with, but it's a hand gun. It's got a short lever arm as a bludgeon and just isn't going to be terribly effective.
Hmm... not according to Wikipedia... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_water_sprinkler_%28flail_weapon%29#Holy_Water _Sprinkler)