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Tyger
2010-03-19, 08:07 AM
OK, without going into the realm of PaO for huge stat increases, what are the basic ways to get one's stats higher?

1) Enhancement items such as the Cloak of Charisma, up to +6 pre-epic.
2) Enhancement items such as Ioun Stones (which would not stack with (1) obviously)
3) Level up bonuses, for a total of +5.
4) Tomes / Manuals for an inherent bonus, total of +5.
5) Wishes for inherent bonuses (which would not stack with (4) for a total of +5.

So, the best you can do (not counting templates and age effects, is +5 from level up, +5 from Tomes or wishes, and +6 from an enhancement item, for a total, at level 20 of +16 to your stat, or 34 assuming you started with that stat at an 18.

Are there any others that stack? Yes, I know you can PaO into a <insert obsene creature here> and find a way to make it permanent, but let just talk about practical optimization, without breaking the world.

Eclipse
2010-03-19, 08:20 AM
Generally speaking, +2 for a racial bonus, depending on which stat you want boosted and if you're willing to take the hit to something else. In 3.5 core, this will only help you with physical stats. In Pathfinder core, this will work for mental stats as well. 3.5 noncore will also let you hit mental stats, but some of the races can get to be cheesy, so it depends on just where your tolerance level is. Still, the racial bonus is probably the low hanging fruit you didn't mention.

Some prestige classes also offer stat boosts. The one that comes to mind for me is dragon disciple, though it probably only has limited utility at best in 3.5. Perhaps good for a bard who wants to go melee and doesn't care about higher level spells and class features, assuming better noncore options aren't available. Also good for some specific builds who like strength and can afford to take the hit to BAB. In Pathfinder, it's also a viable alternative to going straight sorcerer, so long as you like the draconic bloodline and would like a more physical character.

There may be a few other prestige classes that do similar things, but I don't know them off the top of my head. And I'm out of other suggestions for the moment.

Tinydwarfman
2010-03-19, 08:24 AM
The answer to all your problems is WARHULK.

ericgrau
2010-03-19, 09:12 AM
Old age.

Dragon disciple is hands down the best core melee PrC purely because of the stats. The strength boost AB alone makes up for the BAB you lose, at least until level 7 and don't bother me about silly things like delaying your 4th attack at a -15 to hit. Btw level 7 is a good stopping point if you don't want wings, as is level 4. The only drawback to DD is silly people who try to use it for casters. Only dip 1 level of caster. Use the extra spell slots on true strike or something.

Person_Man
2010-03-19, 09:12 AM
Also size increases, Rage effects, and any Polymorph/Wildshape effect.

Tyger
2010-03-19, 11:12 AM
So it sounds like I am pretty much on the ball then. Yes, there are some good to obsene (Warhulk, I'm looking at you!) ways to get your Str up via classes / PrCs, so that's good to know. I was looking at the more general ability to boost stats.

Thanks all for the input!

Lysander
2010-03-19, 11:20 AM
Some templates increase your stats in exchange for +LA. Lich for instance.

Golem armor (epic artifact) gives a +10 strength enhancement.

There might be some other methods in the Improving Without Earning XP (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140356)thread I started a while back.

Corey
2010-03-19, 12:15 PM
You can sometimes get what amount to partial boosts:

Your primary casting stat just for the purposes of spells/day (Precocious Apprentice feat?)

Cha just for checks (Nymph's Kiss)

Marshal's Auras just for checks (any stat)

Draz74
2010-03-19, 02:27 PM
There's a few other nifty options here and there, but they don't match your "general" criteria.

For example, a Binder can bind Paimon for constant +4 Dexterity (untyped).

But in terms of the ways that work for (almost) all characters, and work for any stat, and aren't temporary ... yeah, you got the whole list.

jpreem
2010-03-19, 03:26 PM
Age categories + to your mental stats (OoTS made a joke how old people start to see things better)
and - to your physical stats.
(was it +1 for a category or +2 - i dont remember. Usually my PC-s don't live long enough :D)

the_archduke
2010-03-19, 04:35 PM
The Racial Paragon class from UA gives +2 to a stat at 3rd level. Each race gets a specific stat increase except for Humans and Half-elves that get to chose their stat to increase

Hand_of_Vecna
2010-03-19, 10:40 PM
Permanent Enlarge is relatively cheap and gives +2 str but, that's secondary to the other benefits.

Greenish
2010-03-19, 11:21 PM
Age categories + to your mental stats (OoTS made a joke how old people start to see things better)
and - to your physical stats.
(was it +1 for a category or +2 - i dont remember. Usually my PC-s don't live long enough :D)It's +1 to mental stats in each age category (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#age). See the link for details on the penalty (I'm both too lazy and too drunk to type 'em up right now).

Lycanthromancer
2010-03-20, 12:04 AM
Size increases are good.

Metamorphosis/polymorph are too (and you can get a "permanent" but variable set of stat increases if you pay 84k for a psychoactive skin of proteus).

If you're a psion, the 3.5 crystal master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625d) can get you a +3 untyped bonus to 5 of your stats, and they stack with things like metamorphosis (since they're class features).

The strength of my enemy power is good, since (unaugmented) it can grant you a +8 enhancement bonus to Str (and debuffs your foes, which is at least as good).

Swapping actual bodies (and not just shapeshifting magic) is good, in the case of mind switch, true mind switch, magic jar, haunt shift, and so on.

Riding in a suit of power armor is nice, since it effectively increases your Str (and for some purposes, your Dex and Con). See: hollowed-out effigy creatures.

Epic feats will increase your ability scores.

Certain feats and abilities will substitute one score for another for a given purpose (the easiest to find is Weapon Finesse), which will sometimes be more than enough; replacing your Con to hp and Fort saves with Cha as an undead is basically everything you need, after all.

Similar to the above, adding an ability modifier to other attributes will work well, in most cases (though it could be better or worse than the above, depending on if your original score had a negative modifier). Paladins and their Cha-to-saves, for instance.

Minions can often do things for you (such as Str checks), meaning you don't have to have your scores high.

Also, bonuses to ability checks. Circlets of persuasion, Aid Another checks, and so on. You don't have to worry about having your base stats quite as high if everything they're involved in gets a bonus?