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Erts
2010-03-19, 10:51 AM
Hey, I'm trying to find a useful list that I had found on the internets before, it was a list of multiclass prestige classes. For all of the base classes. Extremely helpful.

Example: Rogue/Wizard: Soulknife, Arcane Trickster.

I remember it being on a large forum. Anyone have any idea what I'm talking about?
Thanks for the help.

Ernir
2010-03-19, 11:04 AM
The great Wikipedia has a list of prestige classes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prestige_classes).

However... I'm not sure I understand your question. What is a multiclass prestige class? And what do Soulknife and Arcane Trickster have in common?

Optimystik
2010-03-19, 11:16 AM
I think he means Daggerspell Mage rather than Soulknife, which is itself a base class.

And I think he wants a list of theurges and other dual progression PrCs (like the ones that advance sneak attack + spells, invocations + spells, monk abilities + spells etc.

Evard
2010-03-19, 11:20 AM
Maybe all the Prestige classes that need the character to multiclass in order to gain them?

Totally Guy
2010-03-19, 11:20 AM
With just the 11 base classes in the PHB there'd be 55 simple 2 class multiclass options (assuming no alignment restrictions etc) so you're saying that you want to see a prestige classs or two for each of those package concepts.

Yep, sounds cool. I'd like to see that too.

Ernir
2010-03-19, 11:40 AM
So, something like...

{table] |Barbarian|Bard|Cleric|Druid|Fighter|Monk|Paladin| Ranger|Rogue|Sorcerer|Wizard
Barbarian|x||||||||||
Bard||x|||||||||
Cleric|||x||||||||
Druid||||x|||||||
Fighter|||||x||||||
Monk|Incompatible||Sacred Fist|||x|||||
Paladin|||||||x||||
Ranger||||||||x|||
Rogue|||||||||x||
Sorcerer|||||||||Arcane Trickster|x|
Wizard|||Mystic Theurge||Eldritch Knight||||Arcane Trickster|Ultimate Magus|x[/table]

Except actually completed? :smalltongue:

boomwolf
2010-03-19, 11:46 AM
And with a bazilion more base classes.
And multiple options at each combo (when there are)


And a -make homebrew- when there is none.

:P

Pluto
2010-03-19, 11:49 AM
I remember that thread.

It looks like it was eaten by the wizards boards.
Google doesn't have a copy of it either.

I think this is the url, in case anybody has any clever tricks:
boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-650186.html

...

It might be easier to just ask for the combinations you want.
(Making comprehensive lists is hard. Digging up the tools for a specific character isn't.)

Totally Guy
2010-03-19, 12:22 PM
It might be easier to just ask for the combinations you want.
(Making comprehensive lists is hard. Digging up the tools for a specific character isn't.)

I bet that if we could somehow insult the geekhood of the forum we could reverse psychology them into doing it for us.

You're on my side right?

Draxar
2010-03-19, 01:17 PM
This is a list of all the prestige classes (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/prc)

Crystal Keep (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php) has a good list of prestige classes, though it doesn't go all the way through 3.5, and it groups them in various ways; 'Advances Arcane Casting', 'Stacks with Bardic Music', 'Sneak attack', and so forth. So it could be used as what you're after with a bit more legwork/

DragoonWraith
2010-03-19, 02:35 PM
Eh, for the hell of it I created a chart like Ernir's, but with a lot more Base Classes (all I could think of).

The base classes included are these:
{table=head]Abbr. | Class | Book | Progressable Abilities
Arc| Archivist | Heroes of Horror | Divine Magic
Ard| Ardent | Complete Psionic | Psionics
Art| Artificer | Eberron Campaign Setting | Infusions
Brb| Barbarian | Player's Handbook | Rage
Brd| Bard | Player's Handbook | Arcane Magic, Bardic Music
Beg| Beguiler | Player's Handbook II | Arcane Magic
Bnd| Binder | Tome of Magic | Pact Magic
Clr| Cleric | Player's Handbook | Divine Magic, Turn Undead
Cru| Crusader | Tome of Battle | Martial Maneuvers
DiM| Divine Mind | Complete Psionic | Psionics
DSh| Dragon Shaman | Player's Handbook II | Draconic Auras
DfA| Dragonfire Adept | Dragon Magic | Invocations
DrN| Dread Necromancer | Heroes of Horror | Arcane Magic
Dru| Druid | Player's Handbook | Divine Magic, Wildshaping, Animal Companion
Dsk| Duskblade | Player's Handbook II | Arcane Magic, Familiar
FSo| Favored Soul | Complete Divine | Divine Magic
Fit| Fighter | Player's Handbook | Bonus Feats
Hex| Hexblade | Complete Warrior | Arcane Magic, Hex
Inc| Incarnate | Magic of Incarnum | Incarnum
Knt| Knight | Player's Handbook II | Knight's Challenge
Lrk| Lurk | Complete Psionic | Psionics
Mnk| Monk | Player's Handbook | Monk Abilities
Nin| Ninja | Complete Adventurer | Sudden Strike, Ki Pool
Pal| Paladin | Player's Handbook | Divine Magic, Turn Undead, Lay on Hands, Mount
Psi| Psion | Expanded Psionics Handbook | Psionics
PsW| Psychic Warrior | Expanded Psionics Handbook | Psionics
Rng| Ranger | Player's Handbook | Divine Magic, Animal Companion
Rog| Rogue | Player's Handbook | Sneak Attack
Sam| Samurai | Complete Warrior |
Sct| Scout | Complete Adventurer | Skirmish
Shc| Shadowcaster | Tome of Magic | Mysteries
Shu| Shugenja | Complete Divine | Divine Magic
Sor| Sorcerer | Player's Handbook | Arcane Magic, Familiar
Slb| Soulborn | Magic of Incarnum | Incarnum
SKn| Soulknife | Expanded Psionics Handbook |
SpT| Spellthief | Complete Adventurer | Arcane Magic, Steal Spell
SSh| Spirit Shaman | Complete Divine | Divine Magic
Swa| Swashbuckler | Complete Adventurer |
SwS| Swordsage | Tome of Battle | Martial Maneuvers
Tot| Totemist | Magic of Incarnum | Incarnum
Tru| Truenamer | Tome of Magic | Truespeaking
Wrb| Warblade | Tome of Battle | Martial Maneuvers
Wrl| Warlock | Complete Arcane | Invocations, Eldritch Blast
Wrm| Warmage | Complete Arcane | Arcane Magic
Wld| Wilder | Expanded Psionics Handbook | Psionics
Wiz| Wizard | Player's Handbook | Arcane Magic, Familiar
WuJ| Wu Jen | Complete Arcane | Arcane Magic[/table]

And the Prestige Classes they may use are these:
{table=head]Abbr. | Class | Book | Progresses | | |
AM | Anima Mage | Tome of Magic | Pact Magic | 10/10 | Arcane Magic | 10/10
AH | Arcane Hierophant | Races of the Wild | Druidic Magic | 10/10 | Arcane Magic | 10/10
AT | Arcane Trickster | Player's Handbook | Sneak Attack | 5/10 | Arcane Magic | 10/10
Ata | Atavist | Races of Eberron | Unarmed Strike | 10/10 | Mind Blade | 10/10
CM | Cerebremancer | Expanded Psionics Handbook | Psionics | 10/10 | Arcane Magic | 10/10
DM | Daggerspell Mage | Complete Adventurer | Sneak Attack | 3/10 | Arcane Magic | 9/10
DS | Daggerspell Shaper | Complete Adventurer | Sneak Attack | 3/10 | Wild Shape | 7/10
EF | Enlightened Fist | Complete Arcane | Monk Abilities | 10/10 | Arcane Magic | 8/10
ED | Eldritch Disciple | Complete Mage | Invocations, Eldritch Blast | 10/10 | Divine Magic | 9/10
EK | Eldritch Knight | Player's Handbook | Bonus Feats | 1/10 | Arcane Magic | 9/10
ET | Eldritch Theurge | Complete Mage | Invocations, Eldritch Blast | 10/10 | Arcane Magic | 10/10
FL | Fochlucan Lyrist | Complete Adventurer | Druidic Magic | 10/10 | Bardic Magic & Music | 10/10
JPM | Jade Phoenix Mage | Tome of Battle | Martial Maneuvers | (5/3/1)*/10 | Arcane Magic | 8/10
MT | Mystic Theurge | Player's Handbook | Divine Magic | 10/10 | Arcane Magic | 10/10
NM | Noctumancer | Tome of Magic | Mysteries | 10/10 | Arcane Magic | 10/10
PA | Psychic Assassin | Mind's Eye | Sneak Attack | 4/10 | Psionics | 5/10
PT | Psychic Theurge | Mind's Eye | Psionics | 10/10 | Divine Magic | 10/10
RM | Rage Mage | Complete Warrior | Rage | 7/10 | Arcane Magic | 5/10
RKV | Ruby Knight Vindicator | Tome of Battle | Martial Maneuvers | (5/2/2)*/10 | Arcane Magic | 8/10
SF | Sacred Fist | Complete Divine | Monk Abilities | 10/10 | Divine Magic | 8/10
SH | Sapphire Hierarch | Magic of Incarnum | Incarnum | 10/10 | Divine Magic | 10/10
SSN | Shadow Sun Ninja | Tome of Battle | Martial Maneuvers | (4/2/1)*/10 | Monk Abilities | 10/10
ShS | Shadowbane Stalker | Complete Adventurer | Sneak Attack | 3/10 | Divine Magic | 8/10
SM | Soul Manifester | Mind's Eye | Incarnum | 10/10 | Psionics | 10/10
SC | Soulcaster | Magic of Incarnum | Incarnum | 10/10 | Arcane Magic | 10/10
SpS | Spellwarp Sniper | Complete Scoundrel | Sudden Strike | 2/5 | Arcane Magic | 10/10
TA | Tenebrous Apostate | Tome of Magic | Pact Magic | 4/5 | Divine Magic | 4/5
TR | Totem Rager | Magic of Incarnum | Incarnum | 8/10 | Rage | 6/10
UM | Ultimate Magus | Complete Mage | Spontaneous Arcane Magic | 7/10** | Prepared Arcane Magic | 10/10**
US | Unseen Seer | Complete Mage | Precision Damage | 4/10 | Arcane Magic | 10/10[/table]

* The progression for Martial Manevuers is given as ( Maneuvers Known / Maneuvers Readied / Stances ) / Total Levels.

** At 1st, 4th, and 7th, the Ultimate Magus misses a level of whichever class has the lowest Caster Level, so it's a 17/20 total, but it can be (7/10)/10, (8/9)/10, (9/8)/10, or (10/7)/10, depending on the Caster Levels involved. Practiced Spellcaster can be used to manipulate which class is advanced each level, and generally missing all three levels in the Spontaneous class is optimal.

The chart is here:
{table=head] | Arc | Ard | Art | Brb | Brd | Beg | Bnd | Clr | Cru | DiM | DSh | DfA | DrN | Dru | Dsk | FSo | Fit | Hex | Inc | Knt | Lrk | Mnk | Nin | Pal | Psi | PsW | Rng | Rog | Sam | Sct | Shc | Shu | Sor | Slb | SKn | SpT | SSh | Swa | SwS | Tot | Tru | Wrb | Wrl | Wrm | Wld | Wiz | WuJ | Total
Arc | X | PT | | | MT | MT | | | | PT | | | MT | | MT | | | MT | | | PT | SF | | | PT | PT | | ShS | | | MT | | MT | | | MT | | | | | | | ED | MT | PT | MT | MT | 20
Ard | PT | X | | | CM | CM | | PT | | | | | CM | PT | CM | PT | | CM | SM | | | | | PT | | | PT | PA | | | PT | PT | CM | SM | | CM | PT | | | SM | | | | CM | | CM | CM | 23
Art | | | X | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 0
Brb | | | | X | RM | RM | | | | | | | RM | | RM | | | RM | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | RM | | | RM | | | | TR | | | | RM | | RM | RM | 11
Brd | MT | CM | | RM | X | | AM | MT | JPM | CM | | | | FL/AH/MT | | MT | EK | | SC | | CM | EF | US | MT | CM | CM | MT | US/DM/AT | | | NM/MT | MT | | SC | | | MT | | JPM | SC | | JPM | ET | | CM | UM | UM | 30
Beg | MT | CM | | RM | | X | AM | MT | JPM | CM | | | | AH/MT | | MT | EK | | SC | | CM | EF | US | MT | CM | CM | MT | US/DM/AT | | | NM/MT | MT | | SC | | | MT | | JPM | SC | | JPM | ET | | CM | UM | UM | 30
Bnd | | | | | AM | AM | X | TA | | | | | AM | | AM | | | AM | | | | | | TA | | | | | | | | | AM | | | | | | | | | | | | | AM | AM | 10
Clr | | PT | | | MT | MT | TA | X | RKV | PT | | | MT | | MT | | | MT | SH | | | SF | | | PT | PT | | ShS | | | MT | | MT | SH | | MT | | | RKV | SH | | RKV | ED | MT | PT | MT | MT | 26
Cru | | | | | JPM | JPM | | RKV | X | | | | JPM | | JPM | | | JPM | | | | SSN | | RKV | | | | | | | | | JPM | | | JPM | | | | | | | | JPM | | JPM | JPM | 13
DiM | PT | | | | CM | CM | | PT | | X | | | CM | PT | CM | PT | | CM | SM | | | | | PT | | | PT | PA | | | PT | PT | CM | SM | | CM | PT | | | SM | | | | CM | | CM | CM | 23
DSh | | | | | | | | | | | X | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 0
DfA | | | | | | | | | | | | X | | | | | | | | | | EF | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 1
DrN | MT | CM | | RM | | | AM | MT | JPM | CM | | | X | AH/MT | | MT | EK | | SC | | CM | EF | US | MT | CM | CM | MT | US/DM/AT | | | NM/MT | MT | | SC | | | MT | | JPM | SC | | JPM | ET | | CM | UM | UM | 30
Dru | | PT | | | FL/AH/MT | AH/MT | | | | PT | | | AH/MT | X | AH/MT | | | AH/MT | | | PT | SF | | | PT | PT | | DS | | | MT | | AH/MT | | | AH/MT | | | | | | | ED | AH/MT | PT | AH/MT | AH/MT | 20
Dsk | MT | CM | | RM | | | AM | MT | JPM | CM | | | | AH/MT | X | MT | EK | | SC | | CM | EF | US | MT | CM | CM | MT | US/DM/AT | | | NM/MT | MT | | SC | | | MT | | JPM | SC | | JPM | ET | | CM | UM | UM | 30
FSo | | PT | | | MT | MT | | | | PT | | | MT | | MT | X | | MT | | | PT | SF | | | PT | PT | | ShS | | | MT | | MT | | | | | | | | | | ED | MT | PT | MT | MT | 19
Fit | | | | | EK | EK | | | | | | | EK | | EK | | X | EK | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | EK | | | EK | | | | | | | | EK | | EK | EK | 10
Hex | MT | CM | | RM | | | AM | MT | JPM | CM | | | | AH/MT | | MT | EK | X | SC | | CM | EF | US | MT | CM | CM | MT | US/DM/AT | | US | NM/MT | MT | | SC | | | MT | | JPM | SC | | | ET | | CM | UM | UM | 30
Inc | | SM | | | SC | SC | | SH | | SM | | | SC | | SC | | | SC | X | | SM | | | | SM | SM | | | | | | | SC | | | SC | | | | | | | | SC | SM | SC | SC | 17
Knt | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | X | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 0
Lrk | PT | | | | CM | CM | | | | | | | CM | PT | CM | PT | | CM | SM | | X | | | PT | | | PT | PA | | | | PT | CM | SM | | CM | PT | | | SM | | | | CM | | CM | CM | 21
Mnk | SF | | | | EF | EF | | SF | SSN | | | | EF | SF | EF | SF | | EF | | | | X | | SF | | | SF | | | | | SF | EF | | Ata | EF | SF | | SSN | | | SSN | EF | EF | | EF | EF | 23
Nin | | | | | US | US | | | | | | | US | | US | | | US | | | | | X | | | | | | | | | | US | | | US | | | | | | | | US | | US | US | 10
Pal | | PT | | | MT | MT | TA | | RKV | PT | | | MT | | MT | | | MT | | | PT | SF | | X | PT | PT | | ShS | | | MT | | MT | | | MT | | | RKV | | | RKV | ED | MT | PT | MT | MT | 24
Psi | PT | | | | CM | CM | | PT | | | | | CM | PT | CM | PT | | CM | SM | | | | | PT | X | | PT | PA | | | | PT | CM | SM | | CM | PT | | | SM | | | | CM | | CM | CM | 22
PsW | PT | | | | CM | CM | | PT | | | | | CM | PT | CM | PT | | CM | SM | | | | | PT | | X | PT | PA | | | | PT | CM | SM | | CM | PT | | | SM | | | | CM | | CM | CM | 22
Rng | | PT | | | MT | MT | | | | PT | | | MT | | MT | | | MT | | | PT | SF | | | PT | PT | X | DS* | | | MT | | MT | | | MT | | | | | | | ED | MT | | MT | MT | 19
Rog | ShS | PA | | | US/DM/AT | US/DM/AT | | ShS | | PA | | | US/DM/AT | DS | US/DM/AT | ShS | | US/DM/AT | | | PA | | | ShS | PA | PA | DS* | X | | | | | US/DM/AT | | | US/DM/AT | | | | | | | | US/DM/AT | PA | US/DM/AT | US/DM/AT | 22
Sam | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | X | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 0
Sct | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | US | | | | | | | | | | | | X | | | US | | | US | | | | | | | | | | US | US | 5
Shc | MT | PT | | | NM/MT | NM/MT | | MT | | PT | | | NM/MT | MT | NM/MT | MT | | NM/MT | | | | | | MT | | | MT | | | | X | MT | NM/MT | | | NM/MT | MT | | | | | | | NM/MT | PT | NM/MT | NM/MT | 21
Shu | | PT | | | MT | MT | | | | PT | | | MT | | MT | | | MT | | | PT | SF | | | PT | PT | | | | | MT | X | MT | | | MT | | | | | | | ED | MT | PT | MT | MT | 19
Sor | MT | CM | | RM | | | AM | MT | JPM | CM | | | | AH/MT | | MT | EK | | SC | | CM | EF | US | MT | CM | CM | MT | US/DM/AT | | US | NM/MT | MT | X | SC | | | MT | | JPM | SC | | JPM | ET | | CM | UM | UM | 31
Slb | | SM | | | SC | SC | | SH | | SM | | | SC | | SC | | | SC | | | SM | | | | SM | SM | | | | | | | SC | X | | SC | | | | | | | | SC | SM | SC | SC | 17
SKn | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Ata | | | | | | | | | | | | | X | | | | | | | | | | | | | 1
SpT | MT | CM | | RM | | | | MT | JPM | CM | | | | AH/MT | | | EK | | SC | | CM | EF | US | MT | CM | CM | MT | US/DM/AT | | US | NM/MT | MT | | SC | | X | MT | | JPM | SC | | JPM | ET | | CM | UM | UM | 29
SSh | | PT | | | MT | MT | | | | PT | | | MT | | MT | | | MT | | | PT | SF | | | PT | PT | | | | | MT | | MT | | | MT | X | | | | | | ED | MT | PT | MT | MT | 19
Swa | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | X | | | | | | | | | | 0
SwS | | | | | JPM | JPM | | RKV | | | | | JPM | | JPM | | | JPM | | | | SSN | | RKV | | | | | | | | | JPM | | | JPM | | | X | | | | | JPM | | JPM | JPM | 13
Tot | | SM | | TR | SC | SC | | SH | | SM | | | SC | | SC | | | SC | | | SM | | | | SM | SM | | | | | | | SC | | | SC | | | | X | | | | SC | SM | SC | SC | 18
Tru | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | X | | | | | | | 0
Wrb | | | | | JPM | JPM | | RKV | | | | | JPM | | JPM | | | | | | | SSN | | RKV | | | | | | | | | JPM | | | JPM | | | | | | X | | JPM | | JPM | JPM | 12
Wrl | ED | | | | ET | ET | | ED | | | | | ET | ED | ET | ED | | ET | | | | EF | | ED | | | ED | | | | | ED | ET | | | ET | ED | | | | | | X | ET | | ET | ET | 19
Wrm | MT | CM | | RM | | | | MT | JPM | CM | | | | AH/MT | | MT | EK | | SC | | CM | EF | US | MT | CM | CM | MT | US/DM/AT | | | NM/MT | MT | | SC | | | MT | | JPM | SC | | JPM | ET | X | CM | UM | UM | 29
Wld | PT | | | | CM | CM | | PT | | | | | CM | PT | CM | PT | | CM | SM | | | | | PT | | | | PA | | | PT | PT | CM | SM | | CM | PT | | | SM | | | | CM | X | CM | CM | 22
Wiz | MT | CM | | RM | UM | UM | AM | MT | JPM | CM | | | UM | AH/MT | UM | MT | EK | UM | SC | | CM | EF | US | MT | CM | CM | MT | US/DM/AT | | US | NM/MT | MT | UM | SC | | UM | MT | | JPM | SC | | JPM | ET | UM | CM | X | | 37
WuJ | MT | CM | | RM | UM | UM | AM | MT | JPM | CM | | | UM | AH/MT | UM | MT | EK | UM | SC | | CM | EF | US | MT | CM | CM | MT | US/DM/AT | | US | NM/MT | MT | UM | SC | | UM | MT | | JPM | SC | | JPM | ET | UM | CM | | X | 37
Total | 20 | 23 | 0 | 11 | 30 | 30 | 10 | 26 | 13 | 23 | 0 | 0 | 30 | 20 | 30 | 19 | 10 | 30 | 17 | 0 | 21 | 24 | 10 | 24 | 22 | 22 | 19 | 22 | 0 | 5 | 21 | 19 | 31 | 17 | 1 | 29 | 19 | 0 | 13 | 18 | 0 | 12 | 19 | 29 | 22 | 37 | 37 |
[/table]

The Wizard and Wu Jen win in total number of other classes they can dual-progress with, mostly thanks to the Ultimate Magus and the large number of spontaneous arcane classes.

And because that's really freaking hard to read, you can get the Excel file here (http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B40_uOuilxk0N2U1NTlkMjktY2ZhNy00ODkwL ThmYzAtODljNjI0ZjM4NGY3&hl=en).

And I know I'm missing quite a few PrCs - I don't know much about things that might progress Monk Abilities, or other martial (but non-initiator) classes, nor did I do a thorough trawl of Mind's Eye, etc. Feel free to help!

Godskook
2010-03-19, 02:42 PM
@Dragoon, you're missing both of the Daggerspell Guardian PrC(Mage and Shaper).

Soonerdj
2010-03-19, 02:43 PM
You sir, are a greater deity of useful table making!

Amphetryon
2010-03-19, 02:53 PM
Nice table, Dragoon. I don't think I'd ever considered Hexblade as the Arcane half of JPM before...

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-03-19, 02:55 PM
That's like... depressingly thorough :smallconfused:

DragoonWraith
2010-03-19, 02:56 PM
Added the Psychic Assassin and Soul Manifester to the chart. Haven't uploaded the new XLS file yet. Will grab the Daggerspell dudes, thanks. EDIT: They're in.

As for thoroughness - I'm reasonably sure I got all of the Arcane Magic ones. I very sure I got all of the Incarnum, Martial Maneuvers, Pact Magic, Shadowcasting, and Truenaming ones (yay for only having one book for those). I'm somewhat dubious about my collection of Divine Magic PrCs, and I'm very sure that I'm missing things that progress Bardic Music, Wild Shape, Animal Companions, Monk Abilities, Ninja Abilities, various forms of Precision Damage, and possibly Rage as well.

Also, I did not double-check all of the pre-requisites. This is especially notable for Divine Magic PrCs, as a number of them require either Turn Undead or Domains (for examples, Ruby Knight Vindicator and Sapphire Hierarch, respectively).

Finally, it also lacks the Multiclass feats, which would fill in a lot of the blanks in the table.

Annoyingly, Google Docs doesn't support (as far as I can tell) updating non-Docs files, so the URL's gonna change every time I update. This is frustrating. I may have to convert it to an actual Doc, but I don't really like the way that looks and some of my formulas (for calculating the number of combos) get messed up by doing that...

Anyway, latest link (http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B40_uOuilxk0NTgzYTllZTUtNTIzZi00Njk5L WFjNjctNTY1N2RhOWJiYmNl&hl=en).

Pluto
2010-03-19, 03:11 PM
And I know I'm missing quite a few PrCs - I don't know much about things that might progress Monk Abilities, or other martial (but non-initiator) classes, nor did I do a thorough trawl of Mind's Eye, etc. Feel free to help!
Monk + Soulknife: Atavist (RoE)
Monk + Sneak Attack: Dragon Descendant (DM)
Monk + Arcane Casting: Enlightened Fist (CArc)
Monk + Swordsage: Shadowsun Ninja (ToB)

Arcane + Sneak Attack: Daggerspell Mage (CAd)
Arcane + Sudden Strike: Spellwarp Sniper (CS)
Arcane + Inspire Courage: Virtuoso (CAr)

Cleric + Sneak Attack: Shadowbane Stalker (CD)
Druid + Sneak Attack: Daggerspell Shaper (CAd)

I'm certain there are more.

DragoonWraith
2010-03-19, 03:16 PM
Monk + Soulknife: Atavist (RoE)
Monk + Sneak Attack: Dragon Descendant (DM)
Monk + Arcane Casting: Enlightened Fist (CArc)
Monk + Swordsage: Shadowsun Ninja (ToB)

Arcane + Sneak Attack: Daggerspell Mage (CAd)
Arcane + Sudden Strike: Spellwarp Sniper (CS)
Arcane + Inspire Courage: Virtuoso (CAr)

Cleric + Sneak Attack: Shadowbane Stalker (CD)
Druid + Sneak Attack: Daggerspell Shaper (CAd)

I'm certain there are more.
Awesome, thanks. I got the Daggerspell folks, Spellwarp Sniper is a good call... Virtuoso doesn't just progress Bardic spellcasting? I'll have to check that.

What Monk abilities does Shadowsun Ninja progress? Nevermind; all of them.

EDIT: Though Dragon Descendant can give +2d6 Sneak Attack damage (which is pretty good considering it's only a 5 level class), it doesn't really have a Sneak Attack progress - it's kind of like getting Assassin's Stance as a Swordsage. I'm not sure if I should include it. Also, while Virtuoso could be used to progress a non-Bardic Arcane casting along with Bardic Music, it looks pretty clearly intended for single-class Bards. Again unsure if I should count that. Other than those, these are done.

Pluto
2010-03-19, 03:22 PM
What Monk abilities does Shadowsun Ninja progress?
The usual: damage, speed, AC, stuns/day and flurry penalty.

Haven
2010-03-19, 03:24 PM
What Monk abilities does Shadowsun Ninja progress?

Unarmed strike damage, speed bonus, flurry of blows progression, AC bonus, and Stunning Fist uses.

Was that a regular ninjaing or a Shadow Sun one?

Erts
2010-03-19, 03:27 PM
I think he means Daggerspell Mage rather than Soulknife, which is itself a base class.


Oops. :smallredface: Yeah, meant Daggerspell Mage.


I remember that thread.
It looks like it was eaten by the wizards boards.
Google doesn't have a copy of it either.


Yeah, was on Wizard Boards.

Dragoon, that is awesome. Thanks.

Well, if anyone can find that Wizard Boards thread, would be most appreciated.

DragoonWraith
2010-03-19, 03:50 PM
Hmm - thoughts on these two?

Though Dragon Descendant can give +2d6 Sneak Attack damage (which is pretty good considering it's only a 5 level class), it doesn't really have a Sneak Attack progress - it's kind of like getting Assassin's Stance as a Swordsage. I'm not sure if I should include it. Also, while Virtuoso could be used to progress a non-Bardic Arcane casting along with Bardic Music, it looks pretty clearly intended for single-class Bards. Again unsure if I should count that. Other than those, these are done.

Pluto
2010-03-19, 04:05 PM
Marshal Auras + Bard IC, IG and 3 levels casting: Mythic Exemplar (CC)

Scout Skirmish (damage only) + Arcane casting: Unseen Seer (CM)

Halfling Outrider and Divine Prankster seem too specific.
True Necromancer and Rage Mage seem too terrible.


Though Dragon Descendant can give +2d6 Sneak Attack damage (which is pretty good considering it's only a 5 level class), it doesn't really have a Sneak Attack progress - it's kind of like getting Assassin's Stance as a Swordsage. I'm not sure if I should include it. Also, while Virtuoso could be used to progress a non-Bardic Arcane casting along with Bardic Music, it looks pretty clearly intended for single-class Bards. Again unsure if I should count that. Other than those, these are done.
I'm not really sure about Virtuoso. Maybe it should be dropped for conciseness, but it lets a character advance the most important Bard music alongside Wizard casting.

You're right about Dragon Descendant, though. I must have misinterpreted the "as a rogue of your dragon descendant level" line the first time I read it.

DragoonWraith
2010-03-19, 04:28 PM
Marshal Auras + Bard IC, IG and 3 levels casting: Mythic Exemplar (CC)
Uuughh, Marshal. OK, working on adding that...

Oh, and the Mythic Exemplar's gonna be a real pain to include, jeez.


Scout Skirmish (damage only) + Arcane casting: Unseen Seer (CM)
I had that, though you're right, I'd missed some of the combos...


Halfling Outrider and Divine Prankster seem too specific.
Where are they?


True Necromancer and Rage Mage seem too terrible.
Despite that, I have Rage Mage in there. True Necromancer... ugh, yeah... I guess I do have to add it. Awful, awful class, though.


I'm not really sure about Virtuoso. Maybe it should be dropped for conciseness, but it lets a character advance the most important Bard music alongside Wizard casting.
Yeah, but that gets a pretty big "so what?" from me. You could just go Sublime Chord for a much better version of the same thing.


You're right about Dragon Descendant, though. I must have misinterpreted the "as a rogue of your dragon descendant level" line the first time I read it.
Mm.

Pluto
2010-03-19, 04:33 PM
Where are they?

Halfling Outrider's in Complete Warrior. It advances animal companions and mounts simultaneously. Like I say, probably too specific to list.

Divine Prankster's kind of like a less Bard-y Virtuoso for Gnome Clerics. If you don't want Virtuoso, you probably won't want it.
Yeah, but that gets a pretty big "so what?" from me. You could just go Sublime Chord for a much better version of the same thing.
Fair enough.

DragoonWraith
2010-03-19, 04:56 PM
Halfling Outrider's in Complete Warrior. It advances animal companions and mounts simultaneously. Like I say, probably too specific to list.

Divine Prankster's kind of like a less Bard-y Virtuoso for Gnome Clerics. If you don't want Virtuoso, you probably won't want it.
Actually, I like Halfling Outrider; it does advance both things, that seems legitimate to me.

Divine Prankster seems like a way for non-Bards to gain some Bardic Music, so that I'm not going to include.

I still have none for Artificer, Dragonfire Adept, Knight, Samurai (which doesn't really have any features to advance so that makes sense), Swashbuckler, and Truenamer...

EDIT: DfA qualifies for Enlightened Fist, I believe.