So, odds on us seeing Sangwaan again? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Saph

2010-03-19, 12:40 PM

So, my copies of War and XPs and Don't Split the Party just got delivered (yay!), and I noticed a few references to everyone's favourite blind diviner in the bonus strips. One in strip #310a, one in #416a, and a final flashback in #665b. (In particular, there's a hint about a crush she might have.)

In the main comic, the last strip Sangwaan appeared in was this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html), and since then it's always seemed likely that's she's dead. However, we've never actually seen the Xs in her eyes . . . and after reading the bonus strips, I can't help thinking there are just a few too many references to her.

And if she is still alive, the current prison break storyline would be the perfect time to reintroduce her . . . what do you guys think? Bets?

Ancalagon

2010-03-19, 12:42 PM

Bitten by a dragon and thrown off the wall? I don't think we'll see her again.

Snake-Aes

2010-03-19, 12:43 PM

Bitten by a dragon and thrown off the wall? I don't think we'll see her again.

Oh c'mon, that's what, 14d6 damage? I've seen level 9 wizards survive more than that :p

Saph

2010-03-19, 12:44 PM

Plus if she can see the future, you would have thought she would been willing to blow a 1st-level slot on Feather Fall.

Ancalagon

2010-03-19, 12:47 PM

Oh c'mon, that's what, 14d6 damage? I've seen level 9 wizards survive more than that :p

Bite + Fall + Plot? That equals... OH MY GOD... 400d6 damage. ;)

Snake-Aes

2010-03-19, 12:50 PM

Bite + Fall + Plot? That equals... OH MY GOD... 400d6 damage. ;)

I'm putting an average of 4 to 6d6 on that bite, and the falling damage caps at like 10d6. While a secondary character, she was dismissed in a way does not indicate death, especially when we DO know it's perfectly possible for a level 9+ caster to survive the damage we can estimate. We cannot even rely on plot to kill her because it makes sense for her to be imprisioned if she survived.

Shale

2010-03-19, 12:50 PM

Or, it could be Bite+Fall-Plot, which equals 1d3.

Draconi Redfir

2010-03-19, 12:51 PM

id love to see her again, though if it turns out that she's NOT dead, then all those MikoxSawaggie fanfics of them meeting and falling in love in the afterlife will be ruined.

Kish

2010-03-19, 12:53 PM

Ten gold says she's dead.

Ancalagon

2010-03-19, 12:55 PM

I'm putting an average of 4 to 6d6 [...]

I'd also like to see her again but I really don't believe it. She was the first victim in the attack on the city and is gone.

Zevox

2010-03-19, 12:56 PM

Negligible. A few references to her in bonus comics is nothing compared to the fact that she's a minor character who was last seen nearly 300 strips ago in a situation which it would be nearly impossible to survive. Bitten badly by a Zombie Dragon and tossed off a high wall into the midst of an army of Hobgoblins is not a situation that a caster can be reasonably expected to survive without some serious defensive buffs. And if she had, I expect we'd have seen her by now - either during the Battle of Azure City or among the refugees, resistance, or prisoners and slaves of the conquering villains afterward.

The logical conclusion is that she's dead.

Zevox

factotum

2010-03-19, 01:02 PM

Plus if she can see the future, you would have thought she would been willing to blow a 1st-level slot on Feather Fall.

And what evidence do you have that she can see the future? She kind of missed the imminent attack by 30,000 hobgoblins on Azure City, after all...

Draconi Redfir

2010-03-19, 01:04 PM

and tossed off a high wall into the midst of an army of Hobgoblins

she was thrown back into the city, AWAY from the hobgoblins.

Zevox

2010-03-19, 01:06 PM

she was thrown back into the city, AWAY from the hobgoblins.
Looking at the comic again, alright. Still all the more reason to doubt her survival, though, since she hasn't shown up since in spite of still being friendly territory after suffering that attack.

Zevox

Samurai Jill

2010-03-19, 01:09 PM

So, odds on us seeing Sangwaan again?
Not good. Ah, shoot, I don't know...

Saph

2010-03-19, 01:16 PM

And what evidence do you have that she can see the future?

Strip #665b in Don't Split the Party.

Lecan

2010-03-19, 01:43 PM

And what evidence do you have that she can see the future? She kind of missed the imminent attack by 30,000 hobgoblins on Azure City, after all...

She knew what was going to be asked of her before it was asked and she provided the majority of the intel on the attack before it occurred. It's reasonable to guess that she can see the future, but definitely not to the extent of everyone's favorite divining Kobold :)

Edit: ninja'd by a mile and with book information :(

Optimystik

2010-03-19, 01:46 PM

Ten gold says she's dead.

You're on :smallamused:

An additional 10gp says she's in the prison.

Cleverdan22

2010-03-19, 01:46 PM

Asta Kask

2010-03-19, 01:49 PM

Ten gold says she's dead.

Bad wording. If we never see her again, what does this mean? Is she alive or dead?

Ten gold says we won't see her alive before the story ends (i.e., the gates, the Snarl, and the Badass Crown-bearer are all resolved).

Zherog

2010-03-19, 01:59 PM

Seems like she would die from the fall damage combined with the zombie dragons bite. Of course, anybody we don't see actually die is a contender for coming back, but I'm leaning towards dead in this case.

A zombie's bite damage is the same as the base creature. I'm not quite sure what size the dragon was, but the damage would range from 2d6 for a Large creature at the low end up to 4d8 for a Colossal creature at the high end. Strength damage, obviously, would also vary by the size. A great wyrm gold has a 47 Str, so if we use that as the max, we're looking at +18 as the maximum value.

Falling damage would cap at 10d6 if she fell 100 or more feet.

Could she survive 4d8+18 (avg total 36) plus 10d6 (avg total 35), or 71 points on average? Sure, it's possible. I don't think it's likely. But if Rich intends it to happen, he certainly has enough wiggle room mathematically to say she survived.

Zevox

2010-03-19, 02:15 PM

Falling damage would cap at 10d6 if she fell 100 or more feet.
Actually, falling damage caps at 20d6 for 200+ feet.

As for the Dragon, we don't know a specific age or size category, but we do know from No Cure for the Paladin Blues bonus strips that it was a Silver Dragon that was powerful enough to be a serious threat to Xykon, even resisting his Meteor Swarm via SR - and apparently knowing full well it was likely to do so. Given Xykon is epic level, that means we're probably looking at a pretty darn old one, likely at least Old age (huge size, 2d8+11 bite), possibly Ancient (gargantuan size, 4d6+13 bite) or older, depending on Xykon's actual level.

Zevox

Vemynal

2010-03-19, 02:21 PM

You're on :smallamused:

An additional 10gp says she's in the prison.

damn, someone beat me to it

Optimystik

2010-03-19, 02:30 PM

damn, someone beat me to it

If it's any consolation, I love your avatar :smalltongue:

Zherog

2010-03-19, 03:02 PM

Actually, falling damage caps at 20d6 for 200+ feet.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused005.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Why did I write 10d6/100 ft.? I know it's 20d6/200 ft...

TheBlackShadow

2010-03-19, 03:16 PM

@ Optimystic & Kish

Now that's an idea - I wonder if we could make an OotS betting pool for each strip...

Jair Barik

2010-03-19, 03:39 PM

@ Optimystic & Kish

Now that's an idea - I wonder if we could make an OotS betting pool for each strip...

10gp says you can't. You know, what with gp being a fictional currency in a comic/ roleplaying game world.

I'd say shes dead though.

Gift Jeraff

2010-03-19, 03:55 PM

Her being in the prison would just feel like fan service, to be honest. Why would she be in there? Considering her disability, she would likely not be kept as a slave. Not to mention, a fairly powerful spellcaster would probably be considered a threat.

If she were alive, she'd likely be in Xykon's tower for information purposes (Diviner + close to Shojo? Perfect.) in some kind of anti-magic field. Even then, the only reason O-Chul was kept was because the MitD personally had him and he was a member of the Sapphire Guard.

Optimystik

2010-03-19, 04:14 PM

They might not know she is one.

And I'm perfectly fine with fan service, thanks :smallbiggrin:

Besides, Thanh could use a love interest, and I don't see him and Niu going anywhere :smalltongue:

Ancalagon

2010-03-19, 04:18 PM

Besides, Thanh could use a love interest, and I don't see him and Niu going anywhere :smalltongue:

What are you talking about? Do you read a different comic? Right now they are going into a prison!!!1 Also, what would they want in Anywhere anyway? ;)

Optimystik

2010-03-19, 04:23 PM

What are you talking about? Do you read a different comic? Right now they are going into a prison!!!1

Yes; complete with a damsel, if I get my wish...

Also, what would they want in Anywhere anyway? ;)

:roy: Don't.
:smalltongue:

Ancalagon

2010-03-19, 04:36 PM

:roy: Don't.
:smalltongue:

Depending on who comes along next, it might already be too late for that. ;)

Pyron

2010-03-19, 05:03 PM

Thanh could use a love interest, and I don't see him and Niu going anywhere :smalltongue:

But the question remains: what would Sangwaan see in Thanh?

Ancalagon

2010-03-19, 05:08 PM

mucat

2010-03-19, 05:13 PM

I like Sangwaan, and would be glad to see her rescued in the prison break. I'm not optimistic, though. What happened to her on the wall had a feeling of finality to it.

Besides, ever since Cassandra or before, prophets and seers in literature have a long history of meeting bad ends; it seems like the consensus is that their existence disturbs the universe. The Kobold Oracle managed to bypass this tradition by being a sneaky git, so I have a feeling Rich will choose to play it straight with Sangwaan. If so, I hope she enjoys the afterlife.

Random guy/gal in Tavern of Infinite One-Night Stands: "Hi. Do you come here often?"
Sangwaan: "I knew you were going to ask that."

Saph

2010-03-19, 05:27 PM

I like Sangwaan, and would be glad to see her rescued in the prison break. I'm not optimistic, though. What happened to her on the wall had a feeling of finality to it.

Well, from a narrative point of view, it would work quite well for her to be rescued. The Resistance rescued some unknown slaves already; having them rescue a named character would put a face on the prisoners and give it more dramatic impact. Having her around would also open up some extra options for the Azure City Resistance and could follow on from some of the side-plots from the bonus strips.

Kewpa

2010-03-19, 05:29 PM

I hope to see her return.

Blind characters are cool, what can I say...

mucat

2010-03-19, 05:49 PM

Well, from a narrative point of view, it would work quite well for her to be rescued. The Resistance rescued some unknown slaves already; having them rescue a named character would put a face on the prisoners and give it more dramatic impact. Having her around would also open up some extra options for the Azure City Resistance and could follow on from some of the side-plots from the bonus strips.

Good points. Hoping it happens; we'll find out soon.

Draconi Redfir

2010-03-19, 06:55 PM

its possible that after she fell off the wall ,she fell unconsius, or simply ran into a building to hide. she might even suffer Amneizia now, and not remember who she is. and when the hobos came around, they found her, and took her prisioner, either keeping her to try and find the locaition of the next gate/redcloaks holy symbol sometime in the future, or just not knowing she is a spellcaster.

waterpenguin43

2010-03-19, 07:29 PM

I still think that Sangwaan would more try to see something in Hinjo.

But I'm not entirely sure Hinjo isn't actually gay. He seemed to be pretty desinterested in a girlfriend in general (bonus strip in War & XPs)... on the other hand... he seemed to be a bit disappointed that Lien had no interest in him (bonus strip Don't Split the Party)... hmm... just another mystery of this comic, it seems. ;)

Hinjo: I go BOTH ways.:smallwink:

Also, I think the poor woman is deader then the Fourth Wall. Sorry, Sangwaan. You ARE awesome, but....:smallfrown:

Studoku

2010-03-19, 09:59 PM

[irony golem]Sangwaan is definately alive. She only got bitten by a dragon and thrown off a wall. She also has a good reason for neither escaping with the retreating soldiers or siding with the resistance.[/irony golem]

Jagos

2010-03-19, 11:30 PM

I still think that Sangwaan would more try to see something in Hinjo.

But I'm not entirely sure Hinjo isn't actually gay. He seemed to be pretty desinterested in a girlfriend in general (bonus strip in War & XPs)... on the other hand... he seemed to be a bit disappointed that Lien had no interest in him (bonus strip Don't Split the Party)... hmm... just another mystery of this comic, it seems. ;)

Nah, not gay. The guy just doesn't know how to approach women and he's starting to get ideas of how women are to be approached. Problem is, it's going to take a while for him to find a good one. Here's to betting his first gf is a real pain in the [boop].

...

Censored again. *sigh*

@Kish and Optimystik
Add in a cookie and I'll take the Sangwaan bet. ;)

Raging Gene Ray

2010-03-20, 12:13 AM

But the question remains: what would Sangwaan see in Thanh?

In the name of all that is good and right, tell me that was not a bad pun.

Also, Thanh has many of the same qualities as Hinjo: LG, protector, confident without being arrogant.

But I'm not entirely sure Hinjo isn't actually gay. He seemed to be pretty desinterested in a girlfriend in general (bonus strip in War & XPs)...

O-Chul hasn't mentioned a spouse or girlfriend...does that mean he's gay? Is everyone gay until proven otherwise? Maybe he's just not interested in a relationship.

Moriarty

2010-03-20, 06:35 AM

TheBibliophile

2010-03-20, 06:40 AM

Actually, falling damage caps at 20d6 for 200+ feet.

As for the Dragon, we don't know a specific age or size category, but we do know from No Cure for the Paladin Blues bonus strips that it was a Silver Dragon that was powerful enough to be a serious threat to Xykon, even resisting his Meteor Swarm via SR - and apparently knowing full well it was likely to do so. Given Xykon is epic level, that means we're probably looking at a pretty darn old one, likely at least Old age (huge size, 2d8+11 bite), possibly Ancient (gargantuan size, 4d6+13 bite) or older, depending on Xykon's actual level.

Zevox

It is specifically stated by Redcloak in the bonus strips to be ancient ("No, nothing much, just a life or death struggle with an ancient silver dragon, that's all.")

Saph

2010-03-20, 06:42 AM

I remember the Giant talking in his comments in one of the books about Sangwaan being dead, he said something about her eyes still being visible through the invisible dragon mouth was an error which he corrected in the printed version to show she died from the bite attack.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't say that anywhere in War & XPs or Don't Split the Party . . . are you thinking of somewhere else?

Kish

2010-03-20, 08:24 AM

O-Chul hasn't mentioned a spouse or girlfriend...does that mean he's gay?

No, but it means we don't know he isn't.

Is everyone gay until proven otherwise?

Neither gay nor straight until one or the other is established, rather.

Ancalagon

2010-03-20, 08:32 AM

about her eyes still being visible through the invisible dragon mouth was an error which he corrected in the printed version to show she died from the bite attack.

There are no Xs in the printed version...not when she's bitten, then she's pulled out of the panel (head is above the line), and when she's flung away there are also no Xs to be seen... also, there's no mentioning of Sangwaan in the chapter-foreword (and also none in the book's introduction).

Moriarty

2010-03-20, 08:57 AM

There are no Xs in the printed version...not when she's bitten, then she's pulled out of the panel (head is above the line), and when she's flung away there are also no Xs to be seen... also, there's no mentioning of Sangwaan in the chapter-foreword (and also none in the book's introduction).

there are no Xs visible no, but in the online version, we still see her glowing eyes(true seeing) through her blindfold. In the book the eyes stop glowing the moment the dragon bites her, indicating Xs (we don't see anything else because of the blindfold)

I can't seem to find the giants commentary towards it... maybe it was a forum post?

Is there any way to search for posts by the giant with "sangwaan" in them?

Kish

2010-03-20, 09:08 AM

Use the search function, sort by poster The Giant, key word Sangwaan.

It doesn't go back very far though, relatively speaking. For somewhat longer ago you could use Google, key words "Giant in the Playground" "The Giant" Sangwaan.

Ancalagon

2010-03-20, 09:08 AM

Is there any way to search for posts by the giant with "sangwaan" in them?

There is. Searching for posts by "The Giant" for the keyword "sangwaan" results in

1. Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

But you are right: Glowing eyes online, no eyes in the print. I assume that really counts for Xs. Why change it if it does not mean something?

edit: Ah, damn. Does the forum take " " or is it a "_" that's eaten by the underline?

Kish

2010-03-20, 09:17 AM

No, you were right the first time, no underscore. I went to check and edited my post, and by the time I had you'd posted. :smalltongue:

Moriarty

2010-03-20, 09:46 AM

so, nothing to be found using the forum search and I just went through six pages of google, I guess you have to take my word for it :smallannoyed:

deuxhero

2010-03-20, 09:50 AM

You're on :smallamused:

An additional 10gp says she's in the prison.

I put down 10GP she get's mentioned offhand a few comics latter because of this discussion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0436.html). In what condition though, I don't know.

Ancalagon

2010-03-20, 09:53 AM

No, you were right the first time, no underscore. I went to check and edited my post, and by the time I had you'd posted. :smalltongue:

I call this "second order cross-confusion". ;)

Draconi Redfir

2010-03-20, 10:32 AM

I put down 10GP she get's mentioned offhand a few comics latter because of this discussion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0436.html). In what condition though, I don't know.

i honestly dont see what that discussion has to do with Swaggie. sorry.

Gift Jeraff

2010-03-20, 10:56 AM

i honestly dont see what that discussion has to do with Swaggie. sorry.
I believe what he meant is that Rich (apparently) showed the flight of the poisoned arrow in response to discussion on the forum (that Belkar would cause the death of Roy, Vaarsuvius, or Miko through the arrow).

Kish

2010-03-20, 11:18 AM

I believe what he meant is that Rich (apparently) showed the flight of the poisoned arrow in response to discussion on the forum (that Belkar would cause the death of Roy, Vaarsuvius, or Miko through the arrow).
Except that Rich clarified that this is cart-before-horse confusion.

That is, he deliberately created a number of situations that would make it look like Belkar was going to cause the death of other people named in the prophecy before Belkar killed the Oracle. The arrow's flight was meant to make people think it would be the prophecy coming true. Similarly, if he'd just wanted Roy to jump onto the dragon, he could easily have foregone "the dragon's too far away to jump naturally" by having the dragon by closer; the Ring of Jumping was involved because he wanted Roy jumping onto the dragon to be attributable to Belkar.

Inhuman Bot

2010-03-20, 11:32 AM

She's dead, Jim.

GooeyChewie

2010-03-20, 02:07 PM

The chances of seeing her again are one in a million...

Gitman00

2010-03-20, 02:22 PM

Itamarcu

2010-03-20, 03:36 PM

Bad wording. If we never see her again, what does this mean? Is she alive or dead?

She is both alive AND dead, meaning the zombie dragon both gets and doesn't gets EXP points.

.....ah, never mind. Let's just kill some zombies.

factotum

2010-03-20, 05:35 PM

The chances of seeing her again are one in a million...

That was also the chance of those pesky Martians showing up, but still they came! :smallwink:

Haven

2010-03-20, 05:57 PM

Let's pull out the trusty Sorting Algorithm of Deadness (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SortingAlgorithmOfDeadness).

Cause of Death: No One Could Survive That (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoOneCouldSurviveThat). 2 points.
Genre: Back From The Dead (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BackFromTheDead). 1 point.
Body Found?: Never found (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NeverFoundTheBody). 3 points.
Reaction: She's Dead, Jim (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HesDeadJim). 3 points.
Last Words: Oh crap (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OhCrap). 4 points.
Characterization: Mauve Shirt (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MauveShirt). 4 points.
When did she die?: Same year (in-story). 2 points.
Died and come back?: Not yet. 4 points.

Average: 23/8=2.875.
Between "Be back soon" and "Maybe back later," closer to the latter.

I got a more conclusive result:

4 Bridge Drop - the closest would be the Worf Effect, being used to establish something else as a threat. But Bridge Drop is also a pretty accurate way of talking about it.
3 Killed Off For Real - it's theoretically a "Death is Cheap" world, note that the only characters to be resurrected in the course of the story so far took, respectively, an incredibly long and complicated quest and the advantages of foresight and lots of money.
3 Never Found The Body
4 Bond One Liner - this is the closest option to the reaction to her death.
4 Oh Crap - Yeah.
4 Mauve Shirt - Also yeah.
2 Same Year - yeah.
4 Not Yet - So Yeah.

Comes out to 3.5, on a 4 point scale of deadness. I would love to see her back, but odds are she's gone. :smallfrown:

Teddy

2010-03-20, 06:23 PM

But you are right: Glowing eyes online, no eyes in the print. I assume that really counts for Xs. Why change it if it does not mean something?

She's still got the :smalleek: look after she's been flung into the sky by the dragon (it's easier to see in the book), and I don't think that Rich has ever drawn a character with both Xs and scared eyes.
_______________

I got a more conclusive result:

4 Bridge Drop - the closest would be the Worf Effect, being used to establish something else as a threat. But Bridge Drop is also a pretty accurate way of talking about it.

I wouldn't call that a bridge drop, since that seems to be more of a anticlimactic atempt to hastily remove a person from the story. No, I believe that No One Could Survive That still fits better.

3 Killed Off For Real - it's theoretically a "Death is Cheap" world, note that the only characters to be resurrected in the course of the story so far took, respectively, an incredibly long and complicated quest and the advantages of foresight and lots of money.

I think I'll agree with you on this.

3 Never Found The Body

Agreed.

4 Bond One Liner - this is the closest option to the reaction to her death.

I wouldn't agree on this, since the Bond One Liner is more of a witty insult than a serious observation, and the only response we get is Belkars "Oh Crap".

4 Oh Crap - Yeah.

Agreed.

4 Mauve Shirt - Also yeah.

Agreed.

2 Same Year - yeah.

4 Not Yet - So Yeah.

Agreed. It can't even be argued about.

Comes out to 3.5, on a 4 point scale of deadness. I would love to see her back, but odds are she's gone. :smallfrown:

I don't know what to say about the odds, but I too would love to see her back.

Moriarty

2010-03-20, 08:55 PM

She's still got the :smalleek: look after she's been flung into the sky by the dragon (it's easier to see in the book), and I don't think that Rich has ever drawn a character with both Xs and scared eyes.
_______________

while that is true, however there would be no reason to change it at all if the change isn't supposed to mean something

snikrept

2010-03-21, 01:54 AM

Draconi Redfir

2010-03-21, 09:42 AM

mabey we've allready seen her being freed from the prison, and we just dont know it becuse she dosent have the robe and blindfold on.

Raging Gene Ray

2010-03-21, 09:46 AM

Well... team peregrine has already freed Guy With A Halberd from prison, so any more named characters would be superfluous.

... what? He's clearly the one on the extreme left in panel two.:smallwink:

No he isn't. A Guy With A Halberd without a halberd is scarcely a Guy With A Halberd at all!

Kish

2010-03-21, 09:49 AM

So taking away his halberd was like cutting off Samson's hair?

(Ack, I can't believe I just contributed to Guy With A Halberd silliness.)

Snake-Aes

2010-03-21, 10:20 AM

Teddy

2010-03-21, 03:44 PM

We did not see Sangwann die, so if there is any role for her, she can be very easily used. Aditionally, bite damage was survived, given we do "see" her eyes open all the time in the comic, including the eyebrow expressions. Since she has foresight, I wouldn't discard preparing a feather fall or similar spell/item.

And after all, she is walking around on the walls wearing a blindfold. It would seem natural to waste one single first-level spell slot on Feather Fall.

waterpenguin43

2010-03-21, 04:00 PM

I got a more conclusive result:

4 Bridge Drop - the closest would be the Worf Effect, being used to establish something else as a threat. But Bridge Drop is also a pretty accurate way of talking about it.
3 Killed Off For Real - it's theoretically a "Death is Cheap" world, note that the only characters to be resurrected in the course of the story so far took, respectively, an incredibly long and complicated quest and the advantages of foresight and lots of money.
3 Never Found The Body
4 Bond One Liner - this is the closest option to the reaction to her death.
4 Oh Crap - Yeah.
4 Mauve Shirt - Also yeah.
2 Same Year - yeah.
4 Not Yet - So Yeah.

Comes out to 3.5, on a 4 point scale of deadness. I would love to see her back, but odds are she's gone. :smallfrown:

I agree. Sorry, I do love Sangwaan, but I'm pretty sure she's deader than a Happy Tree Friend in Final Destination.

Red XIV

2010-03-21, 05:24 PM

Fact: Sangwaan was not killed by zombie dragon's bite.
Fact: Sangwaan is a diviner, and therefore a wizard.
Fact: As a wizard, she has access to Feather Fall.
Fact: A blind wizard who knows that she's going to be walking around atop a hundred-foot wall with no railing would have to be a complete moron to not to prepare Feather Fall before doing so.

Since the bite didn't kill her, if she's dead the fall would have to have killed her. But Feather Fall eliminates that danger. Thus, unless she was killed off-panel by some random hobgoblin (an unlikely scenario for a named NPC who's of significantly higher level than most hobbos), she should be alive.

Draconi Redfir

2010-03-21, 05:28 PM

while i do suppors the "swaggie is alive" theory i must say...

you'd thing she would have forseen that dragon bite/ invisible xylon.

veti

2010-03-21, 05:49 PM

Well, from a narrative point of view, it would work quite well for her to be rescued. The Resistance rescued some unknown slaves already; having them rescue a named character would put a face on the prisoners and give it more dramatic impact.

It would also create the impression that characters we care about are "safe", the Giant can't bring himself to kill off a good guy after establishing a sympathetic character for them.

She may have had a name, a speaking part, and a crush, but that doesn't add up to invincible plot armour. The fact that we know enough to care about Sangwaan makes her death a bit more poignant, but that's all it does for her.

If she were alive, we'd have heard of it by now. (At a minimum, Redcloak would have been torturing her in parallel with O-Chul.)

Optimystik

2010-03-21, 06:19 PM

It would also create the impression that characters we care about are "safe", the Giant can't bring himself to kill off a good guy after establishing a sympathetic character for them.

"Named" characters are safer. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0472.html) :smalltongue:

Alex Warlorn

2010-03-21, 09:56 PM

factotum

2010-03-22, 02:30 AM

While it's rude that the characters don't even give her a 'sorry to know she's dead.' Considering she was given the honor of having a NAME (so they can't brush her off as Miss Nameless NPC) it's sad the others didn't think about her once they had fled the city.

How do we know they didn't? They might have had a special service for her the day after the battle, in the period we didn't see. I would have expected them to have SOME sort of remembrance ceremony for everyone who died, for that matter, either immediately or once they got settled into their new home--but we won't necessarily see it, because it's not relevant to the plot.

Teddy

2010-03-22, 03:47 AM

while i do suppors the "swaggie is alive" theory i must say...

you'd thing she would have forseen that dragon bite/ invisible xylon.

I got the impression from the oracle that he can only see the future when he's actively trying to, and that he can only answer get the answer to questions. Perhaps it works the same for Sangawaan...

Nimrod's Son

2010-03-22, 04:01 AM

while i do suppors the "swaggie is alive" theory i must say...
"Swaggie"?

Morithias

2010-03-22, 04:36 AM

I'm on the wall.

On one side I REALLY want to see Sangwaan in the main comic again.

But on the other side I want her dead, so that all my Miko/Sangwaan shipping at least has SOME basis.

Optimystik

2010-03-22, 02:59 PM

#708: "Eighteen [prisoners] had adventurer class levels and were slated for execution."

I hold out hope! :smallbiggrin:

Gitman00

2010-03-22, 03:17 PM

4 Bridge Drop - the closest would be the Worf Effect, being used to establish something else as a threat. But Bridge Drop is also a pretty accurate way of talking about it.
3 Killed Off For Real - it's theoretically a "Death is Cheap" world, note that the only characters to be resurrected in the course of the story so far took, respectively, an incredibly long and complicated quest and the advantages of foresight and lots of money.
4 Bond One Liner - this is the closest option to the reaction to her death.

Comes out to 3.5, on a 4 point scale of deadness. I would love to see her back, but odds are she's gone. :smallfrown:

I follow your reasoning, but Bridge Drop doesn't really fit for the first one. That's when the writers/producers decide the character needs to go, and write a death for them that's awkward or not necessary for the plot. Worf Effect isn't really right either, because that's when a character previously established as badass is roughed up to show how dangerous the threat is. Sangwaan was never shown to be a great warrior, so the Worf Effect doesn't really apply. Where it would apply is in Xykon's fight with Vaarsuvius. V is souped up on Soul Binds and utterly wrecks an Ancient dragon, and then X handles him with relative ease.

I'm sticking with No One Could Survive That. The situation is much like the end of Batman Begins - we're not sure that [Ra's Al Ghul] is dead. But c'mon, no one could survive that, right?

As for the genre... I'm also sticking to my guns on Death Is Cheap/Back From The Dead, for reasons I've outlined here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8109433#post8109433).

Finally... I can see where you'd get Bond One Liner from Belkar's remark. He's completely dismissive of her demise, and only cares about how it affects his own safety. Of course, it is Belkar, but that just means - from an author's perspective - he's the best character to deliver that kind of line. That makes sense.