Immortality?

[DraPrime]

So apparently, there is a type of jellyfish that can theoretically live forever. (http://green.yahoo.com/blog/guest_bloggers/26/the-world-s-only-immortal-animal.html) As interesting as that is, I find it disturbing that they describe their spread as a silent invasion. Personally, I will never submit to the tyranny of immortal jellyfish.

[Player_Zero]

I can personally live forever if you make wild assumptions on physical laws too.

[Silly Wizard]

Assuming jellyfish could think as humans do, would their immortality matter? Becoming a polyp again would be like becoming a baby again, right? Then they'd forget their ingenious plan to rule the world when they are a baby again.

[Starscream]

Assuming jellyfish could think as humans do, would their immortality matter? Becoming a polyp again would be like becoming a baby again, right? Then they'd forget their ingenious plan to rule the world when they are a baby again.

Kind of reminds me of the Abbot from Thief of Time. He can't get the hang of not dying, so he just reincarnates over and over. He keeps his memories, but his personality reverts to that of a child.

So an entire temple of monks has to obey the will of a small baby whose wise proclamations are interrupted by demands for biscuits.

[Cobalt]

Assuming jellyfish could think as humans do, would their immortality matter? Becoming a polyp again would be like becoming a baby again, right? Then they'd forget their ingenious plan to rule the world when they are a baby again.

Unless they spend all of their time at the ocean's floor and make a note in the sand something along the lines of the following list:

Evil Plan To Take Over The World:
Step One: Grow Up.
Step Two: Mate.
Step Three: Reverse Aging.
Step Rour: Repeat.

[AtomicKitKat]

Hey now, if you can remember all the mistakes you've made, reversion to childhood would totally rock. Although, being all tiny again would be kind of annoying, as well as the irritation and general wangst of puberty. Still. IMMORTALITY IS FOREVER.:smallamused:

[skywalker]

"Do you know what is waiting beyond that beach? Immortality! Take it, it's yours!"

"Come on, you sons of b****s, do you want to live forever?"

"Forever young, I wanna be forever young... Do you really want to live forever? And ever? And ever?"

[Graymayre]

I heard about this human cancer giblet held up in some lab that apparently is also going to live forever.

[Deca]

Assuming jellyfish could think as humans do, would their immortality matter? Becoming a polyp again would be like becoming a baby again, right? Then they'd forget their ingenious plan to rule the world when they are a baby again.

Well, if we assume that they think like we do as you said, and if they don't forget each time...
Then it would get pretty horrible wouldn't it? Immortality would be incredibly boring after a while.

[Ravens_cry]

I heard about this human cancer giblet held up in some lab that apparently is also going to live forever.
You mean HeLa cells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeLa)? Yeah, I've heard that too.
ANother way to live forever is too not die. Before you laugh think about this. No one dies of old age, we die of diseases and conditions, but actually old age. Now, consider if the multiple universe interpretation of quantum mechanics is true. That means somewhere, there is a you that avoids these diseases and syndromes.
Maybe your body is able to fight off that infection. Maybe you don't fall and break your hip.
Maybe you aren't struck by that cosmic ray that causes a cancer Sure, it's gets more and more unlikely, but it's not physically impossible.
The trick, of course, is to be that you.

[Recaiden]

You mean HeLa cells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeLa)? Yeah, I've heard that too.
ANother way to live forever is too not die. Before you laugh think about this. No one dies of old age, we die of diseases and conditions, but actually old age. Now, consider if the multiple universe interpretation of quantum mechanics is true. That means somewhere, there is a you that avoids these diseases and syndromes.
Maybe your body is able to fight off that infection. Maybe you don't fall and break your hip.
Maybe you aren't struck by that cosmic ray that causes a cancer Sure, it's gets more and more unlikely, but it's not physically impossible.
The trick, of course, is to be that you.

Maybe you just die of old age. Because while it's rare, it does happen. Limited number of cell replication cycles and all.

Now, I think if you can get your brain and all into some sort of cyborg shell, that might have potential. (Although I think certain small parts of the brain do continue to grow - hippocampus?)

[SDF]

Well it is biological immortality, not true immortality. It is more accurate to say that the organism is immune to the effects of senescence.

[golentan]

Assuming jellyfish could think as humans do, would their immortality matter? Becoming a polyp again would be like becoming a baby again, right? Then they'd forget their ingenious plan to rule the world when they are a baby again.

I for one welcome our immortal jellyfish overlords.

I seem to recall a group working on Telomere repair, since that seems to be the measure of maximum number of cell replications.

[Ravens_cry]

Maybe you just die of old age. Because while it's rare, it does happen. Limited number of cell replication cycles and all.

Even if so, there still a possibility to live in a where scientists gets around that, possibly like how the jellyfish does by returning to childhood. In fact, I want to write a short story where this is exactly the case. Or maybe telomere reconditioning, who knows?


Now, I think if you can get your brain and all into some sort of cyborg shell, that might have potential. (Although I think certain small parts of the brain do continue to grow - hippocampus?)
Or that, you could go for the classic 'brain in a box' option.

[SDF]

I for one welcome our immortal jellyfish overlords.

I seem to recall a group working on Telomere repair, since that seems to be the measure of maximum number of cell replications.

DARPA just got a bunch of money to work on that.

[Recaiden]

Even if so, there still a possibility to live in a where scientists gets around that, possibly like how the jellyfish does by returning to childhood. In fact, I want to write a short story where this is exactly the case. Or maybe telomere reconditioning, who knows?

That would be the general means by which it is done, I think. As it's the lack of telomeres that leads to cell death, as far as I know.
Now, that strikes me as the kind of thing that will lead to the collapse os society right quick, varying with its availability.


Or that, you could go for the classic 'brain in a box' option.
I do so like that option.

[Ravens_cry]

That would be the general means by which it is done, I think. As it's the lack of telomeres that leads to cell death, as far as I know.
Now, that strikes me as the kind of thing that will lead to the collapse os society right quick, varying with its availability.
The idea I had for the story was that every New Child would have a legal guardian to take care of the until they the returned to maturity and they had to choose a different career path then their previous incarnation, to prevent the stagnation of power.


I do so like that option.
*does best squeaky man child voice to the tune of 'Richard in a Crate' or something like that*
It's easy to do just follow these steps
1: Cut a hole in a box
2: Put your brain in that box
3: Make her open the box
3: Don't open the box
And that's the way you do it

[Pyrian]

DARPA just got a bunch of money to work on that.Yeah, and they'll use it for good ends, I'm sure. :smallmad:

[SDF]

Just because they are a DoD branch doesn't mean they're bad. They mostly outsource to universities. (And as a uni research student thats a good thing) The most substantial thing they've ever done was early work on the internet, and about the worst thing you could say they've done was design some missile guidance systems.

[The Extinguisher]

The cnidarian rebellion will be a squishy one indeed.

[Icewalker]

Maybe you just die of old age. Because while it's rare, it does happen. Limited number of cell replication cycles and all.

Now, I think if you can get your brain and all into some sort of cyborg shell, that might have potential. (Although I think certain small parts of the brain do continue to grow - hippocampus?)

No, no, no, it's like this. The brain in a box option is the first step, which just extends our lifespan (you get the same problem with the brain as you do with the rest of the body after all, when it comes to aging, don't you?). No, that expands the lifespan such that you can survive until we invent the next step, which is more akin to mind
in a box. That is to say, mapping the structure and function of a human brain into a computer such that you can exist as a mind in a machine. That's how we hit immortality.

[SDF]

No, no, no, it's like this. The brain in a box option is the first step, which just extends our lifespan (you get the same problem with the brain as you do with the rest of the body after all, when it comes to aging, don't you?). No, that expands the lifespan such that you can survive until we invent the next step, which is more akin to mind
in a box. That is to say, mapping the structure and function of a human brain into a computer such that you can exist as a mind in a machine. That's how we hit immortality.

That would cut the continuity of consciousness completely defeating the point.

[Icewalker]

Not necessarily, depends on the method. Although if it doesn't you run into Ship of Theseus paradox issues.

But, seems good enough for me. I mean, you're dead, what do you care, but another you is still alive, so you've got immortality. :smallwink:

[2xMachina]

Well, technically, bacteria cells keep splitting right? It's not the same organism per say, but it is capable of infinite replication. Otherwise, single cell organisms will be extinct.

All hail the bacterial overlords?

[Brother Oni]

That would be the general means by which it is done, I think. As it's the lack of telomeres that leads to cell death, as far as I know.

The only problem is, what to do with cells that don't replicate, like nerve and brain cells?

Sure you can be a fit, healthy immortal, at the peak of your physical prime, but mentally you're a drooling vegetable as you've lost too much of your higher brain function.

That is, until the automonic nerve system begins to fail and you simply forget to continue breathing.

[Asta Kask]

Well, technically, bacteria cells keep splitting right? It's not the same organism per say, but it is capable of infinite replication. Otherwise, single cell organisms will be extinct.

All hail the bacterial overlords?

They're not animals.

[Cobalt]

No, no, no, it's like this. The brain in a box option is the first step, which just extends our lifespan (you get the same problem with the brain as you do with the rest of the body after all, when it comes to aging, don't you?). No, that expands the lifespan such that you can survive until we invent the next step, which is more akin to mind
in a box. That is to say, mapping the structure and function of a human brain into a computer such that you can exist as a mind in a machine. That's how we hit immortality.

Reminds me a bit of Shade's Children. Huh.

[Ravens_cry]

Not necessarily, depends on the method. Although if it doesn't you run into Ship of Theseus paradox issues.

But, seems good enough for me. I mean, you're dead, what do you care, but another you is still alive, so you've got immortality. :smallwink:
I always felt life was the answer to the Ship question. Cells multiply, cells divide, cells die ,and get replaced. Even cells that don't, like brain cells to a large degree, still take in nutrition and replace the various molecular components with new atoms and molecules.
Yet, there is continuity.
Though yes, I am sure the original wouldn't be exactly happy to kick the space-bucket, but at least I know someone who is almost exactly like me will continue. And if we found the right copying method, there wouldn't even be that downside.

[Reinholdt]

I for one welcome our immortal jellyfish overlords.

All hail the jellyfish, purveyor of mankind's downfall!

[Ravens_cry]

All hail the jellyfish, purveyor of mankind's downfall!
Are they edible? That could help cut down there numbers, even if they ARE immortal.

[bosssmiley]

"Do you know what is waiting beyond that beach? Immortality! Take it, it's yours!"

Also, seagulls, dehydration and small children who can derive hours of fun from prodding you with sticks...

[Recaiden]

Reminds me a bit of Shade's Children. Huh.

Let's just not put the computer in charge of the resistance this time.

[chiasaur11]

Reminds me a bit of Shade's Children. Huh.

Reminds me of Halo.

Of course, there you get an even shorter lifespan, so that could be a problem.

[Pyrian]

That would cut the continuity of consciousness completely defeating the point.The "continuity of consciousness" is largely illusory in the first place. You wouldn't notice the difference.


Well, technically, bacteria cells keep splitting right? It's not the same organism per say, but it is capable of infinite replication.Weirdly, it's been shown that when a single-cell organism splits there is a distinct parent and child. The parent "ages" normally (well, normally for a single-cell organism).

[CrimsonAngel]

Rebell against the jelly overlord!


Me and my family always saw jellyfish as a waste of space.

[Pyrian]

How could a creepy poisonous tentacled thing that floats underwater ever be a waste of space? :smallcool:

[Trog]

How could a creepy poisonous tentacled thing that floats underwater ever be a waste of space? :smallcool:

Because, clearly, they should be floating through the air a foot or two above land for adventurers to conveniently land on instead. Instead they're all sluffing off at the beach, darn them. :smallannoyed:

[Kelb_Panthera]

one of the biggest contributors to the eventual catastrophic failure of a human body is genetic degradation. Because of the way the cells that make up the human body process nutrients, there's a chance that a stray oxygen molecule will get lose inside a cell. This is what's known as a "free radical." When a free radical bumps into a DNA strand, it causes a mutation in that strand. Nearly all such mutations are a bad change. They cause the cell in question to malfunction, and when the cell reproduces the mutation caries to the new cells as well. Over time these destructive mutations build up until whole tissues are failing, this cascades into organ failure, and eventually death. Until a way can be found to prevent free radicals from forming inside individual cells, people will continue to die of old age. Though as we eliminate other problems the average life expectancy will continue to rise. At least that's what I learned. I'd say where I learned it if I could remember :smalltongue:

[Thajocoth]

The problem with immortality is that the pricetag is always so high... Who wants to live forever...

...as a jellyfish.
...without skin (lich)
...killing people to live (vampire)
...mindless (zombie/skeleton)
...unable to move (brain in a jar)
...unable to touch anything (ghost)
...having the responsibility of thousand's of people's lives (deity)

Really, it's just not worth it in the long run.

[golentan]

The problem with immortality is that the pricetag is always so high... Who wants to live forever...

...as a jellyfish.
...without skin (lich)
...killing people to live (vampire)
...mindless (zombie/skeleton)
...unable to move (brain in a jar)
...unable to touch anything (ghost)
...having the responsibility of thousand's of people's lives (deity)

Really, it's just not worth it in the long run.

Most of these things don't live forever. Just a really, really long time. Which is sweet if you can find a decent conversationalist to spend it with.

[Thajocoth]

Most of these things don't live forever. Just a really, really long time. Which is sweet if you can find a decent conversationalist to spend it with.

Well, that's just because people hunt them down... Defending themselves eventually becomes the only worthy pastime. How many times can you read the same books? Play the same games? Have the same conversations? But adventurers... You really NEVER can be sure of what crazy things they'll do next!

And then, you're with your buddies, hanging out, and you've got new stories to add. "Yeah, it cost a fortune to get that novelty sphere of annihilation that's shaped like a treasure chest, but it was worth it. Check out these vids I recorded of all the adventurers that invaded my lair... Hilarious!"

[golentan]

Well, that's just because people hunt them down... Defending themselves eventually becomes the only worthy pastime. How many times can you read the same books? Play the same games? Have the same conversations? But adventurers... You really NEVER can be sure of what crazy things they'll do next!

And then, you're with your buddies, hanging out, and you've got new stories to add. "Yeah, it cost a fortune to get that novelty sphere of annihilation that's shaped like a treasure chest, but it was worth it. Check out these vids I recorded of all the adventurers that invaded my lair... Hilarious!"

Nah, cuz they'll still have accidents sooner or later.

And I never run out of new things to talk about. People keep writing new books, and inventing new games. I've even dabbled myself in those areas. Sure, living a long time stinks, but it's because of other reasons.

[Thajocoth]

Nah, cuz they'll still have accidents sooner or later.

And I never run out of new things to talk about. People keep writing new books, and inventing new games. I've even dabbled myself in those areas. Sure, living a long time stinks, but it's because of other reasons.

After a while though, the new material starts to feel repetitive. "Hmm... This is just another RPG. Why, I've played so many of these, with so many stories, that the plot all just blurs together now. I don't feel like filling bars anymore..." Despite the richness of story that can be conveyed in RPGs, this will eventually happen given a long enough amount of time. They'll eventually make, play and master the perfect game/story of every type. Eventually know enough about the universe to cease caring about knowing anything anymore... This is WHY they'll eventually have accidents. They'll stop enjoying their unlife

[golentan]

After a while though, the new material starts to feel repetitive. "Hmm... This is just another RPG. Why, I've played so many of these, with so many stories, that the plot all just blurs together now. I don't feel like filling bars anymore..." Despite the richness of story that can be conveyed in RPGs, this will eventually happen given a long enough amount of time. They'll eventually make, play and master the perfect game/story of every type. Eventually know enough about the universe to cease caring about knowing anything anymore... This is WHY they'll eventually have accidents. They'll stop enjoying their unlife

Yes, I'm already bored of a genre of game less than 40 years old, and where you can set your everything. People do come up with new stuff, you know.

And it's not the reason they have accidents. People have accidents because they're accidents. Remove all age or illness related causes of death, and the average lifespan would be about 4 and a half centuries. Because one day you'd get a warning. A warning in the form of "Mind that bus" "What bus?" "Splat." Or your precious phylactery would get struck by lightning. The vampire forgets his keys and is locked out of his house at dawn (bonus irony, can't come in without an invitation from his landlord...).

Life is pretty sweet. Too much of it, and it gets rough, but not for the reasons you're saying.

[Froogleyboy]

I think being an immortal jellyfish would be friggen sweet! Way better then being a boring-old vampire/lich