[3.5] Tiered Skill Points.

[Geiger Counter]

Would you say that skills should be tiered?
If yes then how would you tier them.

[waterpenguin43]

Yes, but I don't have enough time to tier them all, all I know is this: Diplomacy>Knowledge>Spellcraft>All Else

[DragoonWraith]

You don't have UMD (or UPD) in there. Diplomacy may be more powerful, depending on the campaign and how willing your DM is to throw common sense out the window, but UMD is very definitely more powerful than Knowledges.

Also, Autohypnosis is above-average. Better than the Knowledges, I'd think.

Anyway, seeing as this is the homebrew forum, I suspect Geiger had something different in mind. I think? But I don't know what he meant.

[Jota]

Yes, but I don't have enough time to tier them all, all I know is this: Diplomacy>Knowledge>Spellcraft>All Else

Use Magic/Psionic Device?

EDIT: Ninja'd by a good 20 minutes. S'what I get for not refreshing the page.

[Geiger Counter]

Anyway, seeing as this is the homebrew forum, I suspect Geiger had something different in mind. I think? But I don't know what he meant.

Just considering modifying the skill system.

[DragoonWraith]

Yeah, but... what do you mean by "tiered"? Like, do you just want people's opinions on which are the best skills? Or what?

[Geiger Counter]

Just thinking if some skills should have a higher cost, maybe have spellcraft/use?device/knowledge is worth two skill points, craft/profession with half a skillpoint and doubling the skill pool.

[Fortuna]

The effect that you're looking for would seem to be roughly equivalent to just boosting the hell out of the DCs for those skills, yes?

[Zexion]

Easier, and much less complicated: the two things that all people that use 3.5 hate.

[Fortuna]

Easier, and much less complicated: the two things that all people that use 3.5 hate.

It's funny 'cause it's true!

[Zexion]

It's funny 'cause it's true!

Exactly. That's the point.

[Scow2]

The problem with boosting the DC's of skill use is it makes them inaccessible at low levels, but not-even-worth-rolling successes at higher ones (UMD and Tumble are potentially the worst offenders here), so no, boosting the DC's isn't really an option.

A better idea I think would be to divide the points into tiers, then partially disassociate the ranks with the actual modifier, so that 5 in a Tier 5 skill could give as much as a +10 to the mod, while 5 points in a Tier 1 skill would only give a +3...

[Zexion]

Two. Words. Too. Complicated.

[Geiger Counter]

The effect that you're looking for would seem to be roughly equivalent to just boosting the hell out of the DCs for those skills, yes?

I don't know what you mean, there would still be caps on how many points you can put into each skill, this only creates players with a more diverse skill set.

[Eurus]

I don't know what you mean, there would still be caps on how many points you can put into each skill, this only creates players with a more diverse skill set.

Except it might have exactly the opposite effect, and force characters to use all of their skill points just to max out two or three "useful" skills and abandon the rest.

[Geiger Counter]

Except it might have exactly the opposite effect, and force characters to use all of their skill points just to max out two or three "useful" skills and abandon the rest.

Caps. Maximum of 4 skill points in each skill at the first level, maximum of one skill point per skill at all other levels. And I do allow retraining.

[Temotei]

Caps. Maximum of 4 skill points in each skill at the first level, maximum of one skill point per skill at all other levels. And I do allow retraining.

That doesn't give the fighter more skill points.

You'll have to completely rework all of the skill system if you plan on messing with the points each skill costs.

[Fortuna]

If you implement this, people will have lower modifiers in powerful skills.
If people have lower modifiers, they will meet DCs less frequently.

HOWEVER

If DCs are higher, people will meet DCs less frequently.

Net result: the same.

[Eurus]

Caps. Maximum of 4 skill points in each skill at the first level, maximum of one skill point per skill at all other levels. And I do allow retraining.

Sorry, I wasn't quite clear about what I meant. What I'm saying is, if you make Use Magic Device more expensive, the rogue is still going to put 3+level ranks in it. That's just that many less points that he'll have to spend on things like Gather Information and Knowledge: Local. Ditto for the Bard; he's probably going to invest 3+level ranks in Diplomacy whether it costs double or triple, it's the less-useful skills that are going to feel the cutbacks.

[DragoonWraith]

Mostly, skillmonkeys don't need the nerf.

I just don't think this is a good idea.

[Arbitrarity]

Sorry, I wasn't quite clear about what I meant. What I'm saying is, if you make Use Magic Device more expensive, the rogue is still going to put 3+level ranks in it. That's just that many less points that he'll have to spend on things like Gather Information and Knowledge: Local. Ditto for the Bard; he's probably going to invest 3+level ranks in Diplomacy whether it costs double or triple, it's the less-useful skills that are going to feel the cutbacks.


and doubling the skill pool.

Well, that solves that.

[Eurus]

Well, that solves that.

Oops, missed that part. I don't know, I just feel like it either won't make a difference at all, or will but not in the desired way. I may well be wrong, though; some playtesting would be needed to find out.

[Nero24200]

Well, if played RAW, diplomacy is pretty much the win skill. Other social skills can be as well (Bluff, Intimidate) With a high enough bonus you can convince kings to give you their crowns. It doesn't help that theres already spells that can add to the effect (Charm making target's already view you as friendly, Glibness etc).

[Zeta Kai]

The Skills, ranked from most useful to least useful:

Diplomacy: Immune to any creature with an Intelligence over 2.
UMD/UPD: Abusing items for fun & profit.
Knowledge: Divination is now a skill check away.
Tumble: Attack of Whatortunity?
Spellcraft: Making non-casters cry since 2000.
Jump: Flight for Dummies.
Listen/Spot: If you don't have this, every enemy gets a surprise round.
Hide/Move Silently: Invisibility for Dummies. Surprise Round for Smarties.
Concentration: Are you a caster? Yes? Do you like failing? No? Then take this.
Search: When are you not looking for something?
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Appraise: How much is this 500gp jewel worth?
Heal: Uh, you need this why? You can't cast cure something wounds?! I'm boned.
Speak Language: Anything worth talking to already speaks Common, & most things communicate with swords anyway.