[3.5] question about dragons with leadership

[Tahlathali]

Ok, I was looking at the great wyrm blue dragon example in the draconomicon and saw the caption noting that it had a base leadership score of 61. It has 39 HD, CR 25, CHA 22. How do they get that high of a leadership score? anyone know?

[Kylarra]

Ok, I was looking at the great wyrm blue dragon example in the draconomicon and saw the caption noting that it had a base leadership score of 61. It has 39 HD, CR 25, CHA 22. How do they get that high of a leadership score? anyone know?It looks like they may have misread Cha modifier as cha score, since 39+22=61

[Tahlathali]

I was looking at Savage species trying to maybe find an answer and it was saying that a monster with abilities that are class level dependant use ECL
where ECL = HD + LA
so if we take the 61- +6 cha mod - 39 HD = 16 LA? does that sound anywhere close to right for a great wyrm blue???

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Leadership also has conditional modifiers, such as 'great renown' and 'special power' which can further increase their Leadership score. Also keep in mind that monsters don't necessarily have to follow the same rules. Maybe they gave it the 'special power +1' for every age category, totaling +12 from that alone. Unless they specify how they determined that creature's leadership score, you cannot reliably reverse-engineer it to apply the same system to other monsters.

[Kylarra]

I was looking at Savage species trying to maybe find an answer and it was saying that a monster with abilities that are class level dependant use ECL
where ECL = HD + LA
so if we take the 61- +6 cha mod - 39 HD = 16 LA? does that sound anywhere close to right for a great wyrm blue???well great wyrms are LA- because they'll have so many RHD that it's ridiculous to try to play them.

[Tahlathali]

I was trying to figure out the total amount of conditional leadership modifiers it was taking into account and it took into account a -14 in relation to cohorts for causing the deaths of 7 cohorts and a +2 and a -1 for the followers (had a base and caused death of followers). so for a cohort his leadership score was 47 and for followers a 62. I just couldn't figure out how they computed the rest of the leadership score because I was planning on using leadership on a black dragon, which are less powerful and wasn't sure how I would go about getting his leadership score.

[Tahlathali]

by the way, for more information, I am going to have 3 great wyrm BBEGs for this dragon war of Tiamat campaign that I'm trying to plan. one blue, black and one white dragon. So I'm not trying to play the dragons as PC's but as primary bad guys. I am also going to be using the Spawn of Tiamat among other little baddies once my MM4 gets here in the mail.