Twice? (DSTP and future spoilers)

[Shanty Man]

In strip 665b (in a flash back) Sangwaan says that Belkar will save Hinjo's life twice, as far as I know the first and only time this happens is here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html) (by the way how do you turn a word into a link?). Have I missed one or must Belka still save Hinjo a second time?

[Shale]

I can't think of another time, unless you get into crazy theories of the "Belkar killed Windstriker by contributing to Miko's death!" type. So the second one is most likely still to come.

To make a word into a link, use this form (without spaces): [ url=http://www.urlgoeshere.com]Word to turn into a link[ /url]

[factotum]

There's the time when Hinjo etc. are on the walls and about to be pincushioned by a bunch of goblin archers when Belkar Fireballs them--strip #455. That could definitely be considered another occasion where he saved Hinjo's life.

[Gandariel]

Or by helping him to decide to escape the battle in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0467.html ...

[Shanty Man]

I don't think this one

Or by helping him to decide to escape the battle in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0467.html ...

counts but this one

There's the time when Hinjo etc. are on the walls and about to be pincushioned by a bunch of goblin archers when Belkar Fireballs them--strip #455. That could definitely be considered another occasion where he saved Hinjo's life.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0455.html

might

[ClockShock]

It's still to come.
Otherwise where is the point in showing it in the bonus comics at all?

[Anterean]

Perhaps it is related to who Belkar will draw his last breath ever.

There is properly some fitting trobe about that

[FabuVinny]

Otherwise where is the point in showing it in the bonus comics at all?As a joke. It's in the last panel and not the focus of the strip.

It's an extra page covering Belkar and Hinjo discussing Belkar's future. Hinjo says he doesn't know what Mr. Scruffy sees in him and then we get a flashback to exactly what worth Belkar is - namely that he has saved Hinjo's life twice. The implication is strongly that this has been fulfilled already.

[derfenrirwolv]

There's no implication, at all, that the second time had already happened. If it had already happened, 1) we would know about it 2) it wouldn't be the foreshadowing that the author seems to like.

[FabuVinny]

But it isn't presented as foreshadowing. It's presented as a joke on Hinjo who is missing the good that has come from keeping Belkar around. That doesn't work if the author is referring to a future event.

And yes, we have seen Belkar save Hinjo twice. Once stopping the poisoned arrow and once killing many of the large group of Hobgoblins pointed in his direction. The second case is debateable but far more likely than anything in the future, considering the minimal chances of the two meeting again before Belkar's death.


Your second point is a circular argument. Yes, the comic contains foreshadowing. But that doesn't mean every last-panel cutaway has to contain it. As I said, in this case the purpose of the cutaway is to point out what has already happened for the sake of humour. The author also seems to like doing that in the last panel.

[derfenrirwolv]

It's presented as a joke on Hinjo who is missing the good that has come from keeping Belkar around. That doesn't work if the author is referring to a future event.

Its a future event from the point of view of the characters in the flashback panel, but its a past event to the readers.


The second case is debateable but far more likely than anything in the future, considering the minimal chances of the two meeting again before Belkar's death.

I don't see how killing a bunch of hobgoblins that had yet to ascend the wall affected Hinjos survival one way or the other without getting into "As for the elf" territory.


Your second point is a circular argument. Yes, the comic contains foreshadowing. But that doesn't mean every last-panel cutaway has to contain it.

Good thing that's NOT my point then. We know that Hinjo was only saved once, that points to it being foreshadowing. There would be no need to mention twice, at all, in that comic which came out well after the events at azure city but before a second saving could occur. Thus its a heads up to the readers that Belkar and Hinjo have another meeting coming.

Try reading the panel without the twice there. It works perfectly well without it given the events thus far, that tells me that it was put in there for a reason.

[factotum]

I don't see how killing a bunch of hobgoblins that had yet to ascend the wall affected Hinjos survival one way or the other without getting into "As for the elf" territory.


You know, you must be right! Pity those hobgoblins didn't have some sort of weapon that would allow them to damage people at range. Does such a weapon exist? I imagine you could propel something a long way with a bent piece of wood and a string... :smallwink:

[ClockShock]

Hinjo was still shot at a-plenty by little twigs of wood, even after the fireball. It was Daigo who dragged him back into the tower. If anyone saved his life there it was Daigo.

[Morgan Wick]

Good thing that's NOT my point then. We know that Hinjo was only saved once, that points to it being foreshadowing.
Glaah. You're assuming something you're being tasked to prove. Even if it's not a reference to fireballing the hobgoblins, that doesn't mean it's not something completely random none of us have thought of.

I predict this thread will end like this:
*Rich will come in and set the record straight
*Whoever was disproven by Rich's comment will completely ignore him and continue to argue the point
*End with a mod lock.

If a long enough time passes with Rich not chiming in, that makes the foreshadowing theory a lot more likely.

[derfenrirwolv]

Glaah. You're assuming something you're being tasked to prove. Even if it's not a reference to fireballing the hobgoblins, that doesn't mean it's not something completely random none of us have thought of.

No, i am not. Unless you're asking me to prove a negative, which would be silly. We know what the comics are. We know that there is 1, and only one, instance of Belkar saving Hinjo. Sure, it could be in a secret panel that only exists in the authors mind and was mind erased from everyone involved by Durkons twin sister who's a bard, but we draw conclusions based on the evidence we have, not the absence of anything that could prove us wrong.

The evidence is, 1 save down.

The means 1 save to go.

The hobgoblins were nowhere near Hinjo, so yes, we'd be back in "as for the elf" territory.


I don't see the giant chime in often, especially to say "yes that was foreshadowing" before the event it was foreshadowing has taken place.

[factotum]

The hobgoblins were nowhere near Hinjo, so yes, we'd be back in "as for the elf" territory.


As I said above (only slightly less sarcastically this time), the clear implication of that scene was that the hobgoblin archers were going to pincushion the group on the wall. Why bother having Belkar fireball at all if they weren't in any real danger anyway at that point?

[Ancalagon]

namely that he has saved Hinjo's life twice. The implication is strongly that this has been fulfilled already.

No, that is not what it says. It says he WILL save Hinjo twice. And that scene takes place before the first proven time (which is a pretty obvious and direct thing).

[derfenrirwolv]

As I said above (only slightly less sarcastically this time), the clear implication of that scene was that the hobgoblin archers were going to pincushion the group on the wall. Why bother having Belkar fireball at all if they weren't in any real danger anyway at that point?

You mean why would Belkar use a new toy to incinerate sentient beings that weren't a threat to him?

The fire balling from the belltower is a possible second time, but i don't think quite dramatic enough to constitute mention in a flashback.

[Morthis]

Glaah. You're assuming something you're being tasked to prove. Even if it's not a reference to fireballing the hobgoblins, that doesn't mean it's not something completely random none of us have thought of.

I predict this thread will end like this:
*Rich will come in and set the record straight
*Whoever was disproven by Rich's comment will completely ignore him and continue to argue the point
*End with a mod lock.

If a long enough time passes with Rich not chiming in, that makes the foreshadowing theory a lot more likely.

Rich rarely posts on the forums, I really don't know why he'd bother to reply to this, considering sooner or later we'll find out anyway. I certainly don't recall him posting when a billion posts popped up about whether or not V's 4 words were "Disintegrate. Gust of wind", since we later learned what the actual 4 words were anyway.


The hobgoblins were nowhere near Hinjo, so yes, we'd be back in "as for the elf" territory.

I don't see the giant chime in often, especially to say "yes that was foreshadowing" before the event it was foreshadowing has taken place.

They were about to fire at something though. Given the way that comic is set up, it seems incredibly likely they were about to fire at Hinjo and the order. The only issue is, it would take a lot of arrows to do any significant amount of damage to him (since most wouldn't even hit). The panels after that are completely filled with arrows, and it certainly doesn't seem to bother him that much, not to the point his life is in serious danger unless he hangs around for a while at least. By the time they retreat into the tower, it looks like only two arrows hit at all (Haley and Elan are both shown to get hit and then healed by Durkon).

[Thanatosia]

As I said above (only slightly less sarcastically this time), the clear implication of that scene was that the hobgoblin archers were going to pincushion the group on the wall. Why bother having Belkar fireball at all if they weren't in any real danger anyway at that point?
My problem with this theory is that Belkar does not seem to make much of a dent into the massive horde of hobgoblins, wich end up opening fire anyways. Hinjo does not even seem to use the fireballing as a distraction to buy time to get closer to cover. A giant mass of arrows still gets fired, of wich only a few manage to roll the natural 20s I imagine it takes for some low level hobos to hit hinjo up on the wall.... so the question is, is it very likely that the hobos belkar fireballed would have made the difference to do lethal damage, and frankly, I think thats a pretty ludicrous stretch.

[Agi Hammerthief]

Hinjo was still shot at a-plenty by little twigs of wood, even after the fireball. It was Daigo who dragged him back into the tower. If anyone saved his life there it was Daigo.
so...
the shower of arrows that Belkar prevented didn't have the potential to kill Hinjo? or wouldn't have reduced his HP far enough to get Hinjo killed by the shower that Daigo dragged him out of?
:smallconfused:

[derfenrirwolv]

so...

the shower of arrows that Belkar prevented didn't have the potential to kill Hinjo?


No, since they're not only aiming at hinjo they have to aim at the entire party.



or wouldn't have reduced his HP far enough to get Hinjo killed by the shower that Daigo dragged him out of?

Shinwan is not the oracle. The chances of her pulling a technicaly true prophecy like that are pretty slim.

[Kish]

Shinwan
What is it with people substituting "Shin" for the first syllable of Azurite names? I'm waiting for someone to say something about Shinzumi, Shinen, Shingo, Shin-Chul...

[derfenrirwolv]

What is it with people substituting "Shin" for the first syllable of Azurite names? I'm waiting for someone to say something about Shinzumi, Shinen, Shingo, Shin-Chul...

Sorry, experiencing a lot of leg pain this week.

[Dark Matter]

In strip 665b (in a flash back) Sangwaan says that Belkar will save Hinjo's life twice, as far as I know the first and only time this happens is here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html) (by the way how do you turn a word into a link?). Have I missed one or must Belka still save Hinjo a second time???? http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0665.html

What am I missing there?

[derfenrirwolv]

its 665 B . You need to have the book to see it. Its a bonus strip.

[Nimrod's Son]

Rich rarely posts on the forums, I really don't know why he'd bother to reply to this, considering sooner or later we'll find out anyway. I certainly don't recall him posting when a billion posts popped up about whether or not V's 4 words were "Disintegrate. Gust of wind", since we later learned what the actual 4 words were anyway.
...Yeah, but all the sensible kids knew the answer to that one already. :smallwink:

[factotum]

Shinwan is not the oracle. The chances of her pulling a technicaly true prophecy like that are pretty slim.

We don't know exactly what form Sangwaan's foretelling takes. It's clearly not a precise vision of what's going to happen, like the Oracle apparently gets, because if she foresaw Belkar killing GLG then she'd have a pretty good inkling that some bad stuff was going to go down in Azure City--yet it's pretty clear that nobody in the city had the slightest inkling it was going to be attacked until Miko delivered her message.

Given that, it's likely that Sangwaan's foretelling takes the form of a gut feeling, and it's impossible to say that Belkar fireballing the hobgoblins wouldn't count as a saving of Hinjo's life under those circumstances.

[ThePhantasm]

If it were really that important it would not have ended up as a bonus strip. He;s already saved Hinjo's life twice, even if it is a bit ambiguous as to what the second time was.

[wrybread]

I'd say this is the kind of thing where we can sort of relax and wait and see. If it never comes up again, then fireballing the hobgoblins fills the bill, but on the other hand that one is marginal enough that it could be discounted if there's a more concrete situation where Belkar saves Hinjo's life in the future. Of course, one use of that scene, and of flashback scenes in general, was that it provided an excuse to show more of a fairly popular supporting character who'd been killed off, in this case Sangwaan (similar to the bandana-wearing Paladin's cameo in LG heaven). That's really as good of a storytelling reason for it as anything.

[Mystic Muse]

I'm more curious about what Xykon's real name is. My guess is Richard.

[EmperorSarda]

I'm more curious about what Xykon's real name is. My guess is Richard.

I don't think Rich would crib off Looking For Group. So Richard is one of the least likely names.

[Conuly]

I'm more curious about what Xykon's real name is. My guess is Richard.

He's been using the name Xykon for the past several decades. He gets credit cards in that name. For all intents and purposes, that *is* his real name.

[ThePhantasm]

I always assumed his real name WAS Xykon. Was there something I missed?

[Sholos]

I always assumed his real name WAS Xykon. Was there something I missed?

SoD Spoiler:
Xykon decides to take on the name 'Xykon' after an old, wheelchair-bound wizard attempts to recruit him for his team of Sorcerers (the S-Men, IIRC).


I don't think Rich would crib off Looking For Group. So Richard is one of the least likely names.

Agreed. There's also the fact that Xykon is I-don't-know-how-many times cooler than Richard (who is himself a rip off of Black Mage).

[Mystic Muse]

I don't think Rich would crib off Looking For Group. So Richard is one of the least likely names.

It's a slight joke. I only guessed Richard because Rich said that Xykon is kind of a ****:smalltongue:

[Ancalagon]

I'm more curious about what Xykon's real name is. My guess is Richard.

A) It does not matter as Xykon picked his new name and took that identity. Whatever he was... isn't important anymore.
B) Xykon/OotS is older than Looking for Group,
C) Xykon is a Lich, Richard a Demon (Lord) (or, even worse, another Alter Ego for Ryan).

I think we can entirely forget about putting the two in the same pot.

[Mystic Muse]

A) It does not matter as Xykon picked his new name and took that identity. Whatever he was... isn't important anymore.
B) Xykon/OotS is older than Looking for Group,
C) Xykon is a Lich, Richard a Demon (Lord) (or, even worse, another Alter Ego for Ryan).

I think we can entirely forget about putting the two in the same pot.

read my above post. it was a joke and had nothing to do with looking for group.

I don't even know what looking for group is.:smalltongue:

[Kish]

I don't even know what looking for group is.:smalltongue:
You should be glad.