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View Full Version : [3.5] Factotum + Iaijutsu



balistafreak
2010-03-22, 10:37 PM
I keep seeing Iaijutsu Focus/Iaijutsu Master being mentioned hand in hand with Factotums.

Here are my questions:

For the cost of one "tagged" skill, how much combat effectiveness does one gain? All I ever see is "lots of damage", but how does it stack up to Power Attacking/Sneak Attacking/Skirmish/etc.? In a party that leans towards optimization but not towards full casters, how under/overpowered is this?

Exactly what is the "Iaijutsu Factotum" build require in terms of feats/equipment selection? Since Iaijutsu Focus requires the enemy to be flatfooted, I'm having trouble finding very many ways to accomplish this with any regularity or ease. Nothing like the "add Iaijutsu Focus to every blow!" that I keep seeing.

Finally, I see the occasional mention of Iaijutsu Master being multiclassed with Factotum. What would such a build entail and be able to reasonably accomplish, the loss of higher Factotum levels in exchange for Iaijutsu abilities?

I ask these because I am attempting to craft a PC for an incoming 3rd player to my campaign, outlined here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146317)

/shameless plug

He's looking to be a skillmonkey + combatant. A similiar role to what the original Rogue was supposed to fulfill, except without sucking. :smallannoyed:

Gametime
2010-03-22, 10:47 PM
There are a few skill tricks that make the target flat-footed. There's also going first, which is relatively easy as a factotum gets both int (highest stat) and dex (probably second-highest stat) to initiative. There are also a few spells that can work - Greater Invisibility, Grease, and so on, although obviously you can't rely on those.

By far the easiest way to keep someone flat-footed, though, is Confound the Big Folk (Races of the Wild). You have to be small, but it means you can keep any opponent of large or larger size flat-footed more or less indefinitely. Use a Gnomish Quickrazor so you can draw and sheathe it for free every turn, and you're good to go. (Conveniently, gnomes are both small and get free proficiency with the Quickrazor.) Against medium enemies, either use the methods outlined above or make yourself tiny with Reduce Person, etc.

Depending on how available your DM makes skill-boosting items, Iaijitsu Focus can be about as strong as Sneak Attack or a bit weaker. A level 9 rogue gets 5d6 sneak attack dice; to get that many Focus dice, you need a skill check of 30. 12 from ranks plus, say, 3 from Charisma (not being a good factotum stat beyond this skill) only nets you that many dice on a 15 or higher; however, with a magic booster, you could make it with ease and possibly get much higher. Focus also works just fine on things that are immune to sneak attack, which is a big boost.

Optimystik
2010-03-22, 10:54 PM
Depending on how available your DM makes skill-boosting items, Iaijitsu Focus can be about as strong as Sneak Attack or a bit weaker. A level 9 rogue gets 5d6 sneak attack dice; to get that many Focus dice, you need a skill check of 30. 12 from ranks plus, say, 3 from Charisma (not being a good factotum stat beyond this skill) only nets you that many dice on a 15 or higher; however, with a magic booster, you could make it with ease and possibly get much higher. Focus also works just fine on things that are immune to sneak attack, which is a big boost.

More importantly, they stack - OA FAQ confirms it. As a Factotum gets both, he can pile on the damage with ease.

It's also pretty flavorful - a Quickrazor is exactly the kind of obscure weapon a factotum would read up on, just as he would read up on dueling customs in the far east, and put two and two together to make 10d6.

Draz74
2010-03-23, 01:54 AM
More importantly, they stack - OA FAQ confirms it. As a Factotum gets both, he can pile on the damage with ease.

Meh, yeah, except the Factotum's Sneak Attack abilities are terrible without some big houseruling.

By a strict interpretation of RAW, the Factotum can't ever add more than +1d6 damage to an attack with Cunning Strike, no matter how much inspiration he has. Even if the DM overrules this ("In the name of RAI!"), 3.5 average damage is generally a pretty poor way to invest your Inspiration Points. As long as your Intelligence is at least like 16 (which it obviously should be), Cunning Insight is a much better way to add damage than Cunning Strike (since you can wait and see if your attack hits before you use up your Inspiration -- or even wait for a crit!).

Only if you have so many Fonts of Inspiration that you've got Inspiration points oozing out of your ears does Cunning Strike start to be able to do enough damage to be impressive. And at that point, really, you can do all kinds of broken things with your Inspiration anyway.

If you have Craven, Cunning Strike damage payoffs become much more worthwhile. But then, a pure Factotum by strict RAW can't take Craven.

TheMadLinguist
2010-03-23, 03:38 AM
Meh, yeah, except the Factotum's Sneak Attack abilities are terrible without some big houseruling.

By a strict interpretation of RAW, the Factotum can't ever add more than +1d6 damage to an attack with Cunning Strike, no matter how much inspiration he has. Even if the DM overrules this ("In the name of RAI!"), 3.5 average damage is generally a pretty poor way to invest your Inspiration Points.
I believe the official FAQ word on this is you can spend as many as you want in one blow.


And weapons of legacy are a fun and easy way to get a magical skill bonus.

absolmorph
2010-03-23, 04:16 AM
More importantly, they stack - OA FAQ confirms it. As a Factotum gets both, he can pile on the damage with ease.

It's also pretty flavorful - a Quickrazor is exactly the kind of obscure weapon a factotum would read up on, just as he would read up on dueling customs in the far east, and put two and two together to make 10d6.
That's amazing math.

Optimystik
2010-03-23, 05:25 AM
That's amazing math.

Inspired, you might say.

Coy
2010-03-23, 06:44 AM
I have been working on my own factotum fairly recently, and did think about using Iaijutsu Focus to help damage output. Doing the math, you realise it is simply insane damage if done with the right combo -

Take Gnomish Quickrazor proficiency feat, or racial sub it in. That much is clear, as no other weapon really allows you to, as a free action, sheathe your weapon away.
There are other way to make opponents flat footed in combat, but the most effective remains the use of intimidate -
You need Imperious Command, from Drow of the Underdark, meaning anyone intimidated by you is, during the round you use it, is demoralised, and then the round later, shaken (the normal effect of intimidate i believe).
The important effect is demoralised. They are stunned, (i think even helpless? someone check that), so flat footed goes without saying, and even have an extra -2 to AC.
Take the never outnumbered skill trick (2 skill points) from Complete Scoundrel. Once per encounter (and thats all you'll need it) you can intimidate everyone within a certain area, 10ft i believe.
Then take sizing enhancment on your gnomish quickrazor, so you can hit people at this range.
A level 8 factotum can use cunning surge -

Stand in the middle of these flatfooted, helpless creatures, trade as many attacks for Inspiration as you want (keep in mind you lose feats, so with no flaws, and being a human or gnome, you would get only 2 Font of Inspirations)

So you get, with a full attack ontop of that, 4 ish Iaijutsu attacks which usually give you about 3d6 bonus damage per hit... Not too crazy, but cool.

Then imagine a few flaws for FoI, and a few levels later, focusing on one target. You could get about more attacks than a monk at your best BAB, all getting 9d6.

Essentially, towards the beggining of the game you may want to use Sneak attack to better use inspiration points, better oppertunity costs.

But later... You become a melee god. Just one will save away from winning any fight.

See what i mean?

(Personally its a bit of a stretch to use Iaijutsu anyway, but its RAW legal).

Thats how it should be done if you do it.

EDIT: I typed this a bit too quickly.

Ernir
2010-03-23, 08:33 AM
Take Gnomish Quickrazor proficiency feat, or racial sub it in. That much is clear, as no other weapon really allows you to, as a free action, sheathe your weapon away.
There are other way to make opponents flat footed in combat, but the most effective remains the use of intimidate -
You need Imperious Command, from Drow of the Underdark, meaning anyone intimidated by you is, during the round you use it, is demoralised, and then the round later, shaken (the normal effect of intimidate i believe).
The important effect is demoralised. They are stunned, (i think even helpless? someone check that), so flat footed goes without saying, and even have an extra -2 to AC.

Imperious command makes the opponent cower (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#cowering) with a successful Intimidate check, which "only" makes them unable to act, take a -2 penalty to AC, and lose dex to AC. Not sufficient for Iaijutsu.

Person_Man
2010-03-23, 11:31 AM
Have you seen Haberdash (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5266526)?