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Lysander
2010-03-22, 11:03 PM
Let's say you're a level 20 wizard trying to protect their home. Which creatures are your go-to choices as guardians?

Geiger Counter
2010-03-22, 11:05 PM
skeletons and zombies, probably disguised.

Temotei
2010-03-22, 11:06 PM
Let's say you're a level 20 wizard trying to protect their home. Which creatures are your go-to choices as guardians?

Whose home?

Bah. Just kidding. I'd say traps made by yourself are the best defense, simply because you could make traps far stronger than most things that would serve as good guardians.

Nice guardians acting to stop them before they get killed by your traps and you have to reset them: Golems, goblinoids, kobolds, undead, gods...

Geiger Counter
2010-03-22, 11:09 PM
A moat of acid disguised by illusions.

vampire2948
2010-03-22, 11:14 PM
As a level 20 wizard, all you really need to worry about are other casters.

Therefore you'd make golems and such that have magic immunity, to help deal with caster-shaped threats.
Also, they'd be immune to lots of things that'd affect organic guards.

And there're so many golems to choose from...

Starscream
2010-03-22, 11:17 PM
Golems armed with tubes of Sovereign Glue. When an intruder is detected, they spread the glue on themselves and then initiate a grapple.

If you're a real jerk, do it with undead who drain levels by touch...

Scoot
2010-03-22, 11:17 PM
Calzone Golems. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Cooking.pdf)Because then if I ever go hungry, my lunch is waiting just outside the door.
Edit: And there's the Magic Immunity.

Actualy, I'd probably use a numerous amount of illusions of myself. Intimidation and House of Mirrors effect, it would at least be amusing, and give me enough time to prepare a nasty spell to take care of them myself. (The Intruders, that is)

Geiger Counter
2010-03-22, 11:17 PM
I heard before about moving an entire mountain into the ethereal realm to protect your what have you from ethereal jaunters and incorporeals.

Yorrin
2010-03-22, 11:17 PM
The same sort of cheese these boards frown upon: Dragonwrought Kobolds, Tainted Scholars, Beholder Mages, etc. etc. etc.

I wonder what the best way to stat a Cheese Golem is...

Anyhow, if you're on a low-cheese diet, try an antimagic room with self-locking adamantine doors filled with naturally invisible creatures, like Invisible Stalkers and Pixies, with advanced HD of course. Place rooms like these as a perimeter around your stonghold, and get some sort of anti-teleport functionality on the rest of it (pretty easy with the Stronghold Builder's Guide).

IthilanorStPete
2010-03-22, 11:29 PM
The Emerald Legion, obviously.

Akal Saris
2010-03-23, 12:30 AM
I'm a cheapskate and probably spent all my WBL on my own gear, so whatever guardians I have will be "discount" style.

So...undead controlled through Command Undead, maybe a few greater planar bindings on things too dumb to betray me (Abyssal Basilisk?), some loyal minions who I've transformed into pit fiends and hydras with polymorph any object, a few permanent illusions and programmed illusions of the above monsters or myself, maybe some dominated/charmed/geas'd giants or high level fighters.

Lysander
2010-03-23, 12:53 AM
What could also work is building your home in an area with uncontrolled monsters that can't hurt you. For example, if you're undead building in an area with many shadows. The shadows can't do anything to hurt you, but will attack any living creatures in the area.

Yukitsu
2010-03-23, 12:55 AM
Simulacrums of gods.

Harperfan7
2010-03-23, 01:37 AM
As many crystals from my signature as possible, though considering that I'm 20th level, they might have to be lessened in some way.

But basically spontaneous casting, invisible, flying, magic-resistant, intelligent, spell countering constructs.

I personally would have traps that summon or gate in eladrin and angels. I would like a prismatic golem too. Combined with the crystals, I think I would be set when it comes to guardians.

arguskos
2010-03-23, 01:42 AM
The Emerald Legion, obviously.
/thread

Since Ithilanor beat me to it, I would posit that JeminiZero's Alita builds from ToS (you know, the ones that prompted multiple runtime bans) would make fairly effective guardians as well. :smallamused:

Failing severe cheese such as the above insanities, I'd probably use Shadesteel Golems, very very powerful undead, and traps that don't affect either of the above, all in concert with Spell Turrets packed with scary stuff.

IthilanorStPete
2010-03-23, 01:44 AM
/thread

Since Ithilanor beat me to it, I would posit that JeminiZero's Alita builds from ToS (you know, the ones that prompted multiple runtime bans) would make fairly effective guardians as well. :smallamused:

Failing severe cheese such as the above insanities, I'd probably use Shadesteel Golems, very very powerful undead, and traps that don't affect either of the above, all in concert with Spell Turrets packed with scary stuff.

Or have a number of subordinates patrolling in Borg Cubes. :D

arguskos
2010-03-23, 01:45 AM
Or have a number of subordinates patrolling in Borg Cubes. :D
Honestly, JZ's Alita builds scared me MORE than the Cube does. Well, more than Cube Mk 1. Cube Mk 2 with a wizard inside, yeah, that's pretty scary.

GreyVulpine
2010-03-23, 01:48 AM
Iron Flasks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicitems/wondrousitems.htm#ironFlask) scattered around. You never know when you might need a Balor around.

pingcode20
2010-03-23, 01:59 AM
I've always had a soft spot for kobolds as minions. They're compact, efficient, and naturally productive.

Sure, they're not all that tough, but if you give them a good reason to follow you (PaO Dragon? Better yet - PaO Gold/Bronze dragon, so you can stay human for convenience's sake), you have the single lowest support minions in all of DnD. One Field Provisions Box is 2000gp and can support 240 kobolds indefinitely, twice that if you have a warm place for them to live.

That's 8.3gp per minion. And not only are they cheap to maintain, they're good at traps, and have a generational cycle of something around 6 years. As a bonus, you can turn them into mini-sorcerors with the investment of 100gp each.

Then you can put them in tanks or something with the money you save.

Harperfan7
2010-03-23, 02:04 AM
Why do you want our opinions on this, OP?

Eldariel
2010-03-23, 07:17 AM
Just in Core, Simulacrums of various superpowered outsiders (and maybe maself!), Planar Bound Demon or two, probably reprogrammed into permanent servitude, some Golems and maybe various Animated Crap and such. And yeah, probably some traps too along with good stuff.

Vizzerdrix
2010-03-23, 07:31 AM
I wonder what the best way to stat a Cheese Golem is...


Make a Kraft check.....

Anyways, I'm all for making constructs for guards.

taltamir
2010-03-23, 07:33 AM
well... lets see now..

first, your home should be in your own demiplane, unreachable to anyone without your permission....

but if you need to protect some sort of building in the prime material plane how do you go about it? the first thing to know is your budget... I am very partial to "free"...

polymorph any object: I think a kobold to dragon transformation would be permanent.

Its hard to consider how much cheese is allowed... if you can go cheesy, you want to have a mirror mephit familiar who has this spell as an SLA: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/simulacrum.htm
So it can cast it for free (SLA costs no XP or GP to cast)... you can make simulcra of the gods, yourself, outsiders, dragons, whatever...


I wonder what the best way to stat a Cheese Golem is...

make a profession (munchiken) roll :P

Set
2010-03-23, 07:38 AM
Simulacrums of gods.

Nice. :)

Turn yourself undead, fill your keep with 40,000 tons of Green Slime via Polymorph any Object, and then Energy Drain the slime, so that it's undead energy-draining Wight Green Slime. Fill the surrounding areas with permanant Anti-Magic Fields. Anybody who makes it though that can have whatever they came for.

It's not like material wealth has any meaning at that level anyway.

And you moved to another plane anyway. That was just a parting gift to anyone who wanted to move into your old place. :)

Amiel
2010-03-23, 08:08 AM
Adamantine horrors
Gold dragons (dominated of course); or a colour or type of your choice
Alignment exemplars (dominated outsiders; succubi, cornugons, glaberzu et al)
Phaerimm
Invisible stalkers
Nymphs
Mind flayers
Deepspawn

Flickerdart
2010-03-23, 09:42 AM
Make a Kraft check.....
/thread, again. You, sir, are gifted with wit.

taltamir
2010-03-23, 10:37 AM
It's not like material wealth has any meaning at that level anyway.

i find that its typically handwaved so that it does have meaning... any trick for infinite wealth doesn't work by DM fiat; so don't even try.

it actually keeps the game from bogging down with "now what do I buy with infinity GP"

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-03-23, 10:56 AM
Since Ithilanor beat me to it, I would posit that JeminiZero's Alita builds from ToS (you know, the ones that prompted multiple runtime bans) would make fairly effective guardians as well. :smallamused:

Do you have a summary for those of us who don't follow the ToS, or a link to an explanation? I'd like to see something that's scarier than a Mk 1 Borg cube. :smallamused:

IthilanorStPete
2010-03-23, 11:04 AM
Do you have a summary for those of us who don't follow the ToS, or a link to an explanation? I'd like to see something that's scarier than a Mk 1 Borg cube. :smallamused:

Monstrous Regeneration + Living Construct for immunity to nonlethal + Entergy Immunity: Acid and Fire, all Dweomerkeeper'd to be Su and thus undispellable.

TaintedLight
2010-03-23, 11:06 AM
Honestly, JZ's Alita builds scared me MORE than the Cube does. Well, more than Cube Mk 1. Cube Mk 2 with a wizard inside, yeah, that's pretty scary.

Can someone point me to these? My Google-fu is weak but my curiosity is strong.


As for my guardian? Do it with class and animate your house as a construct to chow down on people climbing into the windows or going through doors without your permission :D.

DragoonWraith
2010-03-23, 11:07 AM
There's an Animate Construct spell, too, so you can have a sapient house!

TaintedLight
2010-03-23, 11:11 AM
There's an Animate Construct spell, too, so you can have a sapient house!

This. Definitely this.

Tyndmyr
2010-03-23, 01:18 PM
Let's say you're a level 20 wizard trying to protect their home. Which creatures are your go-to choices as guardians?

Other wizards. Actual race is mutable depending on circumstance, but mostly irrelevant.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-23, 01:24 PM
If it was me, I'd hire LOTS of Rakshasa, Beholders, and other intelligent creatures with some form of magic immunity, then bolster an army of Flesh Golems. My tower home would only have one entrance/exit and it'd have several hundred stories (since D&D doesn't care about the laws of science much ;3) into the uppermost atmosphere, with my final guardian, my Familiar Companion (yes, I'd be a fricken Wizard/Blighter/Arcane Heirophant), who'd be something nasty, such as a Drakken Megaraptor or something diabolical like that

Flickerdart
2010-03-23, 01:34 PM
Towers are passe. The optimal Wizard's hideout is a hypercube free-floating in his private Genesis demiplane, guarded only by M.C. Escher architecture. DC40 INT check or confused! :smallbiggrin:

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-23, 01:36 PM
Towers are passe. The optimal Wizard's hideout is a hypercube free-floating in his private Genesis demiplane, guarded only by M.C. Escher architecture. DC40 INT check or confused! :smallbiggrin:

Well, excuse me for liking the classics! I'm staying in the material plane with a small army of nearly magic immune supersoldiers

taltamir
2010-03-23, 01:55 PM
I prefer a demiplane which contains breathable air, water, and lush soil which you imported vegetation and wild animals into, and then created sentient life in who worships you as a god... naturally you teach them magic so they are wizards... and clerics of you. ~2000 individuals you become a god.

Akal Saris
2010-03-23, 02:30 PM
Or perhaps my only guards would be a small school of magically gifted children, while I disguise myself as a country hedge wizard living in a simple cottage...

Flickerdart
2010-03-23, 02:34 PM
Well, excuse me for liking the classics! I'm staying in the material plane with a small army of nearly magic immune supersoldiers
"Nearly" doesn't count for anything at 20th. Emerald Legion or nothing, by that point.

taltamir
2010-03-23, 02:47 PM
why not just guard it yourself? that is, with the right divination spells you will know exactly who is going to attack and when, and then you can just go and eliminate them before they do/as they do... after all, you are a wizard20 :P

Flickerdart
2010-03-23, 02:53 PM
Because you can have other people do it for you while you take a nap or something? Delegate, delegate, delegate!

taltamir
2010-03-23, 02:54 PM
Because you can have other people do it for you while you take a nap or something? Delegate, delegate, delegate!

why give them the precious XP?
Kill EVERYTHING yourself!

Flickerdart
2010-03-23, 03:10 PM
Because you're off killing gods for more XP than mortals trying to loot your bookshelf will ever give? You're a Wizard, not a peasant.

rubycona
2010-03-23, 04:39 PM
I <3 this thread!

Oh, man, this is awesomely hilarious to read. Just thought I'd comment. You guys are priceless.

Darklord Xavez
2010-03-23, 04:41 PM
Four Iron Golems, each with Antipathy against things which cause rust cast on them. Oh, and they carry heavy repeating crossbows to fit their size. Total CR=about 18. Not including you, of course.
-Xavez

Flickerdart
2010-03-23, 04:48 PM
Four Iron Golems, each with Antipathy against things which cause rust cast on them. Oh, and they carry heavy repeating crossbows to fit their size. Total CR=about 18. Not including you, of course.
-Xavez
So, non-flying creatures with +11 to hit using archery, which is incredibly easy to negate? To any full caster worth his salt, and most melee types, this is free XP.

HunterOfJello
2010-03-23, 05:08 PM
the other three members of my adventuring party that I eventually got annoyed with and enslaved

JeminiZero
2010-03-23, 10:06 PM
/thread

Since Ithilanor beat me to it, I would posit that JeminiZero's Alita builds from ToS (you know, the ones that prompted multiple runtime bans) would make fairly effective guardians as well. :smallamused:

This gave me a warm fuzzy feeling. :smallbiggrin:


Do you have a summary for those of us who don't follow the ToS, or a link to an explanation? I'd like to see something that's scarier than a Mk 1 Borg cube. :smallamused:


Can someone point me to these? My Google-fu is weak but my curiosity is strong.


The first and only match that build was used in is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122296). The Alita build used in ToS is as follows:


Warforged: 1 Warblade / 1 Wizard / 3 Cloistered Cleric / 8 Dweomerkeeper

Key Spells
Monstrous Regeneration (Magic of faerun, also listed on Crystalkeep's Cleric spell list): Grants Regeneration as a troll. Only Fire and Acid deal lethal damage
Construct Essence (Race of Eberron): Can only be cast on Warforged. Makes Warforged more construct like by granting immunity to: Non-lethal, Ability Damage and Drain, Critical Hits, Death and Necromantic Effects. Non Lethal immunity prevents anything that isn't fire or acid from hurting you at all.
Energy Immunity: Self Explanatory. Cast to protect against Fire and Acid damage

Key Equipment
-Rod of Extension (extend up to level 6 spells)
-Novice Iron Heart Vest: Iron Heart Surge
-Other stuff to grant more turn attempts
+ Nightstick
+ Reliquary Holy Symbol
+ Cha enhancers
+ etc

Key Feats:
-DMM Persist spell
-Martial Study: Shadow Jaunt
-Extra Spell Known: Construct Essence (since it is an arcane spell)
-Extra Favored Class: Cleric

How it Works
Dweomerkeeper 8 grants 3 uses of supernatural spell per day. Use DMM persist to persist Monstrous Regeneration and Construct Essence, applying supernatural spell to both. However you need 4 spells to achieve invulnerability (because you need Energy Immunity to Acid and Fire seperately). The trick is to use Rod of Extend when casting Energy Immunity. That way it lasts for 48 hours, and you can alternate between castings of Immunity to Fire and Acid each day.

On the ToB side, 1 warblade splash lets you use/recharge maneuvers. Martial study Shadow Jaunt grants you an EX teleport ability which is all sorts of useful... especially for escaping AMFs. By taking at least 1 Iron Heart Maneuver, you also qualify to pick up the ever broken Iron Heart Surge from a novice vest, letting you remove almost any other condition that you are not already immune to.

Mind Affecting is still a weakness, so protection against evil is recommended. You can add PaE to your Dweomerkeeper Mantle of spells to cast it spontaneously.

IthilanorStPete
2010-03-23, 10:17 PM
Of course, it doesn't work because monstrous regeneration isn't exactly legal as per its replacement by lesser vigor in SpC.

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-03-23, 10:47 PM
So it's a fairly vanilla immunity to HP trick achieved in an ingenious way? I'm somewhat underwhelmed (I was expecting more PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER from all the hype), but kudos on finding that combo.


Of course, it doesn't work because monstrous regeneration isn't exactly legal as per its replacement by lesser vigor in SpC.

Well, as much as SpC would like to say it's been "renamed" to greater vigor, they do totally different things and greater vigor has been around for a while, so I'd be inclined to discount the renaming note as an error. Still, by RAW you're technically correct.