Mage killer.

[The Rabbler]

I'm building a character to throw at my PCs; specifically one warmage we have.

the idea is that this is the warmage's half-undead son. (yes, that implies exactly what it is supposed to)

I need some ideas on how to make this character perfect for messing with the aforementioned warmage, with the criteria that he/she must be ECL 7, half-undead, and must not use magic of any kind. I bring this here because I'm not very experienced in the ways of undead (or the hybrids) and I'm sure someone can come up with something better than six levels of rogue.

[Sinfire Titan]

...The entire premise of a Mage Slayer undead is enough to make me cry. The fact that you want to use it on a Warmage even more so, but the reason behind those tears will vary.



Necropolitan Duskblade 5/Abjurant Champion 2. Don't send him alone, have him accompanied by several Wights (2d4 of them), and have them positioned so the party can't just nuke them and walk away safely. Have him open up with a readied action (Seeking Ray targeting the Warmage) and negate the first spell the Warmage casts. Improved Init may be desired.

[The Rabbler]

...The entire premise of a Mage Slayer undead is enough to make me cry. The fact that you want to use it on a Warmage even more so, but the reason behind those tears will vary.



Necropolitan Duskblade 5/Abjurant Champion 2. Don't send him alone, have him accompanied by several Wights (2d4 of them), and have them positioned so the party can't just nuke them and walk away safely. Have him open up with a readied action (Seeking Ray targeting the Warmage) and negate the first spell the Warmage casts. Improved Init may be desired.

sounds powerful, but the idea is that this undead hates all forms of magic and wont use it himself. this guy won't be going in alone, rather, this will be the one that's out to get the warmage.

[Sinfire Titan]

sounds powerful, but the idea is that this undead hates all forms of magic and wont use it himself. this guy won't be going in alone, rather, this will be the one that's out to get the warmage.

In that case use Crusader. It's the only thing that will survive for more than 3 rounds against a party of PCs, and it actually stands a decent chance against a Warmage without actually being a caster/manifester in it's own right.

[*.*.*.*]

sounds powerful, but the idea is that this undead hates all forms of magic and wont use it himself. this guy won't be going in alone, rather, this will be the one that's out to get the warmage.

Warblade if you want pure melee. You could also make the undead a scout and skirmish the hell out of the warmage

Warmages are a tad bit easier to deal with(unless they're the batman persuasion)

[AbyssKnight]

Umm....He did say "No magic of any kind."

Race: Necropolitan is good, though fully undead. Dragon 313 has half undead races. What race is the Warmage and what was the mother?
Ghedan (half zombie, +1 LA) is really the only one that works at such a low ECL, but there are also half ghost, half ghoul, and half vampire.

For classes, the Occult Slayer PrC is pretty good.

Spike Chain and Mage Slayer work really well together.

[Roc Ness]

I throw in Ranger with Favored Enemy: Arcanists, and the Mage slayer feat. Not sure what else you might want... Maybe levels in Horizon walker for tremorsense?

[Scoot]

Race: Necropolitan is good, though fully undead. Dragon 313 has half undead races. What race is the Warmage and what was the mother?
Ghedan (half zombie, +1 LA) is really the only one that works at such a low ECL, but there are also half ghost, half ghoul, and half vampire.

For classes, the Occult Slayer PrC is pretty good.


Crystal Keep also has a list of all the half-undead templates, if you don't have access to Dragon.

And for flavor reasons, Occult Slayer would probably be amazing for this concept. It's in Complete Warrior IIRC.

Maybe also give him some way to damage Mental Stats. Traps that aim for the head or some sort of poision could be a way to manifest his hate. Mechanicaly they may be weak (Depends on what he can afford), but they sound good flavor-wise.

[Soranar]

Half-vampire from LM is fairly strong for the cost (LA +2)

DR 5 (silver or magic, I recommend silver since magic weapons are far more common), natural AC +2, +2 STR/DEX/CHA

a slam attack (1d6 if medium)

not undead so you have a Con score which helps a lot

4 levels of paladin of Tyranny (Lawful Evil) to get aura of despair, heavy armor proficiency and divine grace (Cha to saves), trade your spells for extra feats and you can ignore wisdom

if you intend to have him come back for more, get him what he needs for blackguard later (Cha to saves twice with divine grace/dark blessing)

so something like this

STATS (32 pts buy)

STR 16
DEX 16
CON 16
INT 8 (or higher for roleplay)
WIS 8
CHA 18


1 Fighter spike chain proficiency, combat reflexes
2 Paladin of Tyranny
3 Paladin of Tyranny Mage-Slayer
4 Paladin of Tyranny
5 Paladin of Tyranny bonus feat: Power Attack

you won't need pounce at level 5 (1 iterative anyway)

you pick 1 ability between blood drain , gaze or summon

This build is made for the gaze (DC 10+ 1/2 your level + Cha)

DC 16 (add your aura and the DC is 18, pretty high at level 7)

if you allow flaws then drop fighter for 1 more paladin and give him a nasty mount

[The Rabbler]

This guy will be one of a party of other undead who hate magic for one reason or another. they'll all be using vow of poverty and have the mage slayer feats.

I'm just looking for a ECL 7 build that will destroy a warmage. also, I'd prefer if he were sneaky/stabby. the warmage likes to say he's invinceable. a lot. I want to shake that feeling of his.

this may sound like i'm being overly vengeful as the DM, and I am, but I like challenging the PCs (last dungeon the average EL was 9 and they were no higher than level 3. they beat each encounter in 2-3 rounds.) they build strong characters and I plan on having this group of undead challenge them by attacking weaknesses.

I know it's asking you guys to do the work, but I've got nothing when it comes to killing mages. my characters just grab the biggest sword they can find and hit stuff very very hard.

[Swok]

Short of massively out leveling them, a no spellcaster party with no magic items (Exalted half undead make me go :smallconfused:) against an optimized spellcasting party will lose hardcore.

It takes spells to really challenge a very skilled spellcaster on equal footing.

though if you really DO want to do it like this, Mettle is a pretty decent ability to get, and not horribly difficult to acquire. Probably the most straightforward way is Hexblade 3, which also gives charisma to saves against spells.

[The Rabbler]

Half-vampire from LM is fairly strong for the cost (LA +2)

DR 5 (silver or magic, I recommend silver since magic weapons are far more common), natural AC +2, +2 STR/DEX/CHA

a slam attack (1d6 if medium)

not undead so you have a Con score which helps a lot

4 levels of paladin of Tyranny (Lawful Evil) to get aura of despair, heavy armor proficiency and divine grace (Cha to saves), trade your spells for extra feats and you can ignore wisdom

if you intend to have him come back for more, get him what he needs for blackguard later (Cha to saves twice with divine grace/dark blessing)

so something like this

STATS (32 pts buy)

STR 16
DEX 16
CON 16
INT 8 (or higher for roleplay)
WIS 8
CHA 18


1 Fighter spike chain proficiency, combat reflexes
2 Paladin of Tyranny
3 Paladin of Tyranny Mage-Slayer
4 Paladin of Tyranny
5 Paladin of Tyranny bonus feat: Power Attack

you won't need pounce at level 5 (1 iterative anyway)

you pick 1 ability between blood drain , gaze or summon

This build is made for the gaze (DC 10+ 1/2 your level + Cha)

DC 16 (add your aura and the DC is 18, pretty high at level 7)

if you allow flaws then drop fighter for 1 more paladin and give him a nasty mount

This looks amazing and I know I'll have to try it out some time, but I would really prefer something that would shred him rather than dump a huge pile of owned on top of him. This is the level of optimization that you have to see coming (or in this build's case, not see) to be able to beat it. Great idea for a BBEG later down the line, but for now I think something less awesome is in order. thanks for the idea, though. :smallredface:

[The Rabbler]

Short of massively out leveling them, a no spellcaster party with no magic items (Exalted half undead make me go :smallconfused:) against an optimized spellcasting party will lose hardcore.

It takes spells to really challenge a very skilled spellcaster on equal footing.

It's not that the party is optimized, just that they know how to play what they make and they do well in nearly all situations. Also, the players are level 5 right now and, short of dragonwrought kobolds, it's tough to be super powerful at this point.



though if you really DO want to do it like this, Mettle is a pretty decent ability to get, and not horribly difficult to acquire. Probably the most straightforward way is Hexblade 3, which also gives charisma to saves against spells.

The Warmage makes a point of not allowing saves to any spell, so mettle would be a bit of a waste. Thanks for the suggestion though, as I have wondered how to go about getting mettle for a while.

[Lycanthromancer]

Try a sneak-oriented factotum/swordsage, focusing on shadow-hand (consider it his (un)natural undead abilities kicking in), using Font of Inspiration and whatever sneaky and damaging maneuvers you care for.

Also, a psychic warrior would do well (it's not magic, it's psionics, which they may view very differently).

Depends on if, as an undead, he considers whatever innate abilities he has to be fair game or not, and how you want to flavor those abilities. ToB and psionics could go toe-to-toe with him (as could incarnum, or necrocarnum, as the case may be).

So swordsage/factotum, psychic warrior, incarnate, or totemist (though the last two are a bitch to get right if you don't know what you're doing).

Otherwise, you'll be needing a one-hit-kill melee type, and I doubt you want to do that. Martial characters just aren't cut out for taking out spellcasters.

[TheCountAlucard]

I was gonna suggest a combo of the Deformity (Tall) Vile feat, the Inhuman Reach Aberrant feat, Combat Reflexes, Mage Slayer, and a reach weapon (obviously, some flaws would be required, but being able to AoO from 30 feet away when the casters can't cast defensively is going to make disrupting spells easy).

[Tackyhillbillu]

Hmmm. How about Swordsage? If that is to Magical in flavor, Warblade is probably the best option. If TOB is out... Barbarian Charger, or maybe one of the Ultramount Builds?

If you don't allow TOB or some kind of Caster, it is essentially Rocket Tag. Either the Barbarian or Ultramount kills him in one charge, or the Warmage wins.

---

Alternatively, if you are opent to homebrew, I've always want to try this out.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126198

SR 17, can Counterspell whatever the War Mage tries to throw at it, and look damn good doing it. Note that this class was made to go toe to toe with the Big 6, and your Warmage probably isn't going to be able to do crap against it.