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AtwasAwamps
2010-03-23, 03:25 PM
Sooo…I feel bad. Sorta. Kinda. Not REALLY, but a little bit…guilty.

In a recent session, due to some very bad rolling for random encounters, my (very poorly optimized) party of 6 came face to face with a Rage Drake attacking a village. Well, the monk was having none of that and charged straight towards the beast, his fast movement outdistancing our measly cart. The swashbuckler booked it right after him. Within of the beasts full attacks, they were brought down to near negatives. One more full attack would kill them. They managed to do a little damage, but…not enough to slow the monster down. Our wizard and rogue were taking pot shots from the wagon we were riding and doing…very little. All in all, the combined efforts of the crew were making it look very grim.

Then I got into charging range. With my paladin.

Now, while at heart, I’m a heavy optimizer, I try to keep it from showing because I’m in a group where the “minmaxer” believes an epic rogue could take an epic wizard…well, yeah. Even with this paladin, I chose not to take the mount, instead taking the charging smite ACF (because I know just how STRONG a mount can get…). But what I did next made the entire group look at me in wonder, joy, and the DM look at me with irritation.

I cast Rhino’s Rush. I used Charging Smite. I power Attacked.

I did 56 damage.

This is not a lot of damage, mind you. But it was more than the entire party had been able to do in the 2-3 turns they had on the drake, more than anyone had done in a single swipe ever. The players patted me on the back and the DM laughed his head off (considering up until the I’d basically been a useless damage sponge) and wagged a finger at me, realizing that what I had done had been both totally legal and something I’d warned him I’d be able to do. The “minmaxer” fell silent and glared daggers at me (because his mighty rogue had done 4 damage).

I still feel bad about this. I worry that the DM will escalate things to the point where the rest of the party can’t handle it. I doubt he will, but there is that fear. I also worry he will neutralize my character in some way. I assume I won’t get many charging opportunities from here on in ☺ It was a moment of glory. I saved two party members from near certain death and made a braggart shut his mouth. You only get those once in a while, right?

jindra34
2010-03-23, 03:41 PM
Your party has a monk. If anything stays close enough for you not to charge it the monk can quickly use a full attack on it. And a creature that is staying close enough to you not be charged is essentially limited to you as a target. Charging is not limited to first round of combat so I wouldn't worry to heavily about not getting another chance. And if the DM honestly escalates at you pulling a nasty trick to save the party I'm not sure that I would want to keep playing with the same DM.

Kobold-Bard
2010-03-23, 03:44 PM
Bravo on the victory. I'd say revel in it, but you're a Paladin so that's not allowed :smalltongue:

DragoonWraith
2010-03-23, 03:46 PM
Cool story, I especially like the braggart getting his.

The finger wagging, though, strikes me as ridiculous and unnecessary. I dunno, I'd take finger wagging as extremely condescending and would be insulted by anyone who did it to me (I think. Maybe. Based on my mental image of what this entailed, which may not be the case here), especially over a whopping 56 damage.

Your party has a monk. If anything stays close enough for you not to charge it the monk can quickly use a full attack on it. And a creature that is staying close enough to you not be charged is essentially limited to you as a target. Charging is not limited to first round of combat so I wouldn't worry to heavily about not getting another chance. And if the DM honestly escalates at you pulling a nasty trick to save the party I'm not sure that I would want to keep playing with the same DM.
Plenty of other things prevent charging. You need to see the target of a Charge, you need a straight line to them, and there can't be any difficult terrain. Very easy to stop charges for a DM.

AtwasAwamps
2010-03-23, 03:52 PM
The finger wag was a joke and the escalation is, as I mentioned, highly unlikely. It was just a completely unexpected assault from the player least likely to cause devestation. The DM and I traded jokes about it all night (he's currently running a psion in my game and, like me, is an optimizer who tones it back, so we get a lot of mileage out of each other's shennanigans).

I kinda feel bad for the rage drake, but also I want to make its body into weaponry.

Ernir
2010-03-23, 03:55 PM
You saved the day. Yay, go team LG.

And now your DM may think you have no shame. OK...

1) Talk to him and say you won't do it again (or at least not at inappropriate moments). Or, you know, explain to him how you feel. Hell, show him this post.
2) If you want to preserve their innocence, imply to the other players that this was mostly luck of the dice, and that they shouldn't count on it working next time. :smalltongue:

Asheram
2010-03-23, 05:09 PM
I'd say that you've got nothing to feel guilty about. Things were going very Very south there, so you had all right to pull out the stops to protect your party.

Though, I'd advice you to wait untill someone has dropped into the negatives the next time you do the same; be the TPK failsafe.

Optimystik
2010-03-23, 05:16 PM
You shouldn't have done that.






If you don't let the Monk and Swashbuckler die, how will their players learn?
:smalltongue:

KillianHawkeye
2010-03-23, 05:35 PM
If you don't let the Monk and Swashbuckler die, how will their players learn?
:smalltongue:

Careful, they may come back as multiclass Monk/Swashbucklers! :smallwink::smallamused:

Kobold-Bard
2010-03-23, 05:41 PM
Careful, they may come back as multiclass Monk/Swashbucklers! :smallwink::smallamused:

With Kung-Fu Genius that might not be terrible.

NOT good, but not terribad.

Iban
2010-03-23, 06:09 PM
I say congrats on the Epic Win :smallbiggrin:

Every once in a while a player is going to get a series of lucky rolls and do a shedload of damage; my 3rd level Dwarven Fighter can quite easily dish out high 20s with no feats on a crit (highest at the moment is a 39 on a crit) and my sister can easily reach 48 without scoring a crit with a bow of hers (shortbow + 1d6 fire damage + rapid shot + multishot) and up to 96 if she rolls really well :smalltongue:

So yer, be happy for the nice high damage and pray that it happens again sometime :D

Private-Prinny
2010-03-23, 06:37 PM
One time, I was playing my Killer Gnome, and the DM was planning on having my party captured by castle guards. Two Silent Images and one Ghost Sound later, we'd captured the local duke for interrogation.

As an illusionist, I hadn't been a heavy hitter in combat, so seeing me derail his plans made the DM surprised, to say the least.

KillianHawkeye
2010-03-23, 06:43 PM
shortbow + 1d6 fire damage + rapid shot + multishot

Rapid Shot and Manyshot can't be used together. One modifies your full-attack action, while the other is a seperate standard action.

If there is a Multishot feat of which I'm not aware, please disregard the previous two sentences.

Iban
2010-03-23, 06:45 PM
Oh really? I didn't know that (and nor did she by the looks of things)

I must show her this (and read the feat description better xD), should cut down her brokeness by a bit.

Thankies :smallsmile:


EDIT: Its my memory failing, she was using Manyshot lol. But then the damage doesn't add up :/ I have a feeling that we will have to start using this properly in the very near future lol

sofawall
2010-03-23, 07:51 PM
I say congrats on the Epic Win :smallbiggrin:

Every once in a while a player is going to get a series of lucky rolls and do a shedload of damage; my 3rd level Dwarven Fighter can quite easily dish out high 20s with no feats on a crit (highest at the moment is a 39 on a crit) and my sister can easily reach 48 without scoring a crit with a bow of hers (shortbow + 1d6 fire damage + rapid shot + multishot) and up to 96 if she rolls really well :smalltongue:

So yer, be happy for the nice high damage and pray that it happens again sometime :D

What is on that Shortbow? Your damage adds up to maximum rolls with 4 attacks on an illegal crossbow. For the record, a weapon or armour must be +1 before it can be Flaming, or Acidic, or Defending, or w/e. A Flaming longsword must be at minimum a +1 Flaming Longsword.

Iban
2010-03-23, 08:19 PM
Its a random bow she got as a drop containing (from memory):

Flaming

And thats it lol
That should make it a +1 Flaming Shortbow, but that doesn't add up to the damage that she has been rolling occaisionally.

I have a strong feeling that we (and this is as a group) have simply been rolling damage incorrectly (and rather greatly by the sound of things).

I think that this is the process we went through for the damage of that bow:

1d6 (shortbow) + 1d6 (fire) per arrow
Up to four arrows (Manyshot a Rapid shot; two shots on up to two targets)
Which gives a total of 8d6 non-critical, then we doubled damage rolled on a critical.

After re-reading the feats' descriptions I know that thats wrong and that it should be something different, but I'm not sure what.

Would someone be so kind as to tell me how this should actually be rolled? Oh and what are the modifiers on the multiple shots?

Thanks :smallbiggrin:

P.S. We are still newbs by the way, not simply very very bad players xD

kenjigoku
2010-03-23, 08:40 PM
Okay lets give this a shot.

Shortbow Damage is 1d6 + 1d6 + 1 (assuming non composite and no str bonus)

At your level you can either rapid shot for 2 shots (-2 to hit per arrow) or Many shot for 2 shots taking a -4 penalty to hit per arrow.

As you can see (hopefully) the Rapid Shot would be the best option nearly 100% of the time.

As for the damage lets assume both hit.

Damage would total 4d6+2, for an average damage of 16, max damage of 26.

Assuming a single crit, you would roll 3d6 + (1d6 * 2) + 2. 2d6 fire damage, 1d6 normal bow damage, 1d6 *2 crit damage, and the magical modifer for both arrows.

SIDE NOTE

You mentioned using multipliers for crits. While useful I would sugged rolling extra dice, its a bit more time consuming but it make a crit roll of a 1 stink less.

Example:
For this example you are using a non-composite standard shortbow.
You attack and hit with a single arrow that crits. Your damage is 1d6. Your crit multiplier is X2, so you roll 2d6 for crit damage.

Example 2:
For this example you are using a greatsword with no STR bonus to damage.
You attack and crit. Your damage is 2d6. Your crit multiplier is X2, so you roll 4d6 damage.

PM me if you have any questions at any time.

AND on topic.

Epic blow man, I love making my DM shake in his boots. I say kudos on your attack and you should feel proud. But if your DM understands you, don't exploit his trust with making this a constant thing :)!

sofawall
2010-03-23, 08:46 PM
Assuming a single crit, you would roll 3d6 + (1d6 * 2) + 2. 2d6 fire damage, 1d6 normal bow damage, 1d6 *2 crit damage, and the magical modifer for both arrows.

A critical hit from a +1 flaming shortbow does 4d6+3 damage.

Deth Muncher
2010-03-23, 11:15 PM
Dude, seriously? You're fine. Especially considering the fact you don't go around doing this every session, you're fine. While Mr. Rouge might be angry at you, he seems like a misguided individual anyway, so it doesn't much matter. :P But really, it's kind of nice to know that when things get rough, you can DPS as well as Tank. Plus, I mean, the whole point is to make sure your party members don't die, right? You were just doing your duty.

tyckspoon
2010-03-23, 11:25 PM
1d6 (shortbow) + 1d6 (fire) per arrow
Up to four arrows (Manyshot a Rapid shot; two shots on up to two targets)
Which gives a total of 8d6 non-critical, then we doubled damage rolled on a critical.

After re-reading the feats' descriptions I know that thats wrong and that it should be something different, but I'm not sure what.

Would someone be so kind as to tell me how this should actually be rolled? Oh and what are the modifiers on the multiple shots?

Thanks :smallbiggrin:

P.S. We are still newbs by the way, not simply very very bad players xD

The biggest errors are the incorrect application of the feats and that Flaming doesn't multiply on a crit... oh, and I suppose that bows have an x3 crit, not x2. So the maximum damage, assuming Rapid Shot was used, would be
3d6+1d6+3 per arrow, yielding (18+6+3)=27=54. That is, if you manage to hit and confirm two crits while Rapid Shotting and roll max damage on both. It's not very likely... generally speaking, if you have a third level character rolling four attacks, something is fishy (sometimes insectoid, because that's just enough levels to be a Thri-Kreen.)

Math_Mage
2010-03-24, 12:06 AM
Its a random bow she got as a drop containing (from memory):

Flaming

And thats it lol
That should make it a +1 Flaming Shortbow, but that doesn't add up to the damage that she has been rolling occaisionally.

I have a strong feeling that we (and this is as a group) have simply been rolling damage incorrectly (and rather greatly by the sound of things).

I think that this is the process we went through for the damage of that bow:

1d6 (shortbow) + 1d6 (fire) per arrow
Up to four arrows (Manyshot a Rapid shot; two shots on up to two targets)
Which gives a total of 8d6 non-critical, then we doubled damage rolled on a critical.

After re-reading the feats' descriptions I know that thats wrong and that it should be something different, but I'm not sure what.

Would someone be so kind as to tell me how this should actually be rolled? Oh and what are the modifiers on the multiple shots?

Thanks :smallbiggrin:

P.S. We are still newbs by the way, not simply very very bad players xD

You said 3rd level?

Manyshot has a +6 BAB as a prerequisite.

Oh, and what everyone else said.

TheCountAlucard
2010-03-24, 02:50 AM
On the whole "getting lucky a whole lot" bit...

One of the Rogues in the game I run got ten nat 20s out of the fifteen or so rolls he made one night. We told him to retire that d20, immortalize it on a bronze plaque or something, but he's not going to be rolling with it again.

(Don't worry, he has a lot of dice.)

Deth Muncher
2010-03-24, 02:57 AM
On the whole "getting lucky a whole lot" bit...

One of the Rogues in the game I run got ten nat 20s out of the fifteen or so rolls he made one night. We told him to retire that d20, immortalize it on a bronze plaque or something, but he's not going to be rolling with it again.

(Don't worry, he has a lot of dice.)

Psh, are you fo' cereal? I would leave that die in my bag to bring it out when we need the big guns. I wouldn't retire it, necessarily, but much like the OP talking about coming out of nowhere and laying the smackdown, I'd leave it for times of dire need only.

Emmerask
2010-03-24, 03:22 AM
Psh, are you fo' cereal? I would leave that die in my bag to bring it out when we need the big guns. I wouldn't retire it, necessarily, but much like the OP talking about coming out of nowhere and laying the smackdown, I'd leave it for times of dire need only.

This would still come down to cheating by using an obviously extremely flawed die :smallwink:

ka_bna
2010-03-24, 05:18 AM
Joining in on the gratulations.

And don't feel guilty, you just did well/better. And besides, it was just a random encounter. Those things are created for such kills, right?