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View Full Version : does 3.5 have any 0 LA templates with + Int?



Trekkin
2010-03-23, 06:05 PM
I've looked, and can find no template that adds a bonus to Intelligence without a level adjustment. It strikes me as odd that such would be the case when other ability sets have been written that bump other stats without an LA, so what am I missing?

Ormur
2010-03-23, 06:19 PM
Spell-hoarding for dragons is probably not what you're looking for, it states +0 CR instead of LA. +2 Int. -4 Wis., casts as a wizard.

Trekkin
2010-03-23, 06:21 PM
I was hoping for ones that could apply to player character 0 LA races, but yes, that helps. So does Riddled.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-03-23, 06:28 PM
I was hoping for ones that could apply to player character 0 LA races, but yes, that helps. So does Riddled.

There aren't really templates without LA because they modify a race.

But there ARE races with no LA that have a +2 to Int,
Gray Elves for example.

Gaiyamato
2010-03-23, 06:31 PM
Deep Imaskari.
Spell clutch is also an awesome ability for a LA+0 race.

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-23, 06:33 PM
There's Lesser Tiefling, a base race that grants a bonus to Int.

Seffbasilisk
2010-03-23, 06:42 PM
Grey Elf, if you're doing races. I don't know about any template that does so.

Tinydwarfman
2010-03-23, 06:45 PM
I believe the only LA +0 templates are Dragonborn and Aquatic, (barring dragon magazine), so no luck there.

Starbuck_II
2010-03-23, 06:46 PM
Dragon Wrought Kobold? They can get aging bonuses to mental: +3 mental.

SoD
2010-03-23, 06:47 PM
There are three exremely obscure templates that add to int, called 'middle-aged' 'old' and 'venerable'. Not all of these can be applied to all races, so you might have to look into your races fairly well first.

Darrin
2010-03-23, 10:09 PM
There is at least one:

Primordial Giant. Secrets of Xendrik p. 81. Str -4, Con -2, Int +4, Cha +4.

The tricky part is finding a LA 0 giant. Best I can find is half-giant, LA +1.

HunterOfJello
2010-03-24, 01:12 AM
Fiendish Familiar isn't a template but would do the trick

it's a symbiote from the Fiend Folio that would at +2 to your casting stat for each stat that is associated with you casting a spell (so if you have a level in wizard or something that uses int)



it does require you to be evil though for you to use it easily

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-03-24, 01:14 AM
There is at least one:

Primordial Giant. Secrets of Xendrik p. 81. Str -4, Con -2, Int +4, Cha +4.

The tricky part is finding a LA 0 giant. Best I can find is half-giant, LA +1.

Primordial Incarnate Warforged would work, assuming you somehow have the 'Forged start off as large.

EDIT: As Incarnate is technically -2 LA, if you could throw down something with LA that could normally be applied to a Warforged that would increase its size without harmer Int and changing its type, that would do it.

Thurbane
2010-03-24, 02:10 AM
Primordial Giant Incarnate Construct Effigy 1/2 Ogre? (Now that's a mouthful!)

1/2 Ogre (giant) = +2 LA, STR +6 , DEX -2, CON +2, INT-2, CHA -2
Effigy template (changes type to construct) = -- LA, STR +2, DEX -2, CON = n/a, INT = n/a, WIS = 11, CHA = 1
Incarnate Construct template (changes type back to giant) = -2 LA, CON = 4d6b3, INT = 4d6b3, CHA = 3
Primordial giant template = 0 LA, -4 STR, -2 CON, INT +4, CHA +4

So, net result is a Large Giant, LA = 0, STR +4, DEX -4, CON 4d6b3(-2), INT = 4d6b3(+4), WIS = 11, CHA = 7

...if you can put up with a hit to DEX and CON, you're a +0 LA large creature with great STR and INT (sounds like a decent base for a Duskblade).

Other goodies include: +6 natural armor, +30 bonus HP (I would assume these are lost when Incarnate Construct is applied) and 40 foot base move...

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-03-24, 02:24 AM
Effigy template (changes type to construct) = -- LAI think the OP is after PC templates. :smallbiggrin:

magic9mushroom
2010-03-24, 04:22 AM
I've looked, and can find no template that adds a bonus to Intelligence without a level adjustment. It strikes me as odd that such would be the case when other ability sets have been written that bump other stats without an LA, so what am I missing?

This is largely because there aren't many 0 LA templates to start with.

Bloodlines kinda-sorta don't have LA, and Devil, Gold Dragon, Titan, and Yuan-Ti each give a +1 to Int.

Also, as has been said, races. Fire Elf, Sun Elf, Gray Elf, Deep Imaskari, Lesser Tiefling, or Exiled Modron all give +Int without LA. Gray Elf's the one you're most likely to get past your DM.

Gaiyamato
2010-03-24, 05:09 AM
I think the OP is after PC templates. :smallbiggrin:

Yeah the Effigy template in Complete Arcane cannot be used by a PC.

toddex
2010-03-24, 05:14 AM
Primordial Giant Incarnate Construct Effigy 1/2 Ogre? (Now that's a mouthful!)

1/2 Ogre (giant) = +2 LA, STR +6 , DEX -2, CON +2, INT-2, CHA -2
Effigy template (changes type to construct) = -- LA, STR +2, DEX -2, CON = n/a, INT = n/a, WIS = 11, CHA = 1
Incarnate Construct template (changes type back to giant) = -2 LA, CON = 4d6b3, INT = 4d6b3, CHA = 3
Primordial giant template = 0 LA, -4 STR, -2 CON, INT +4, CHA +4

So, net result is a Large Giant, LA = 0, STR +4, DEX -4, CON 4d6b3(-2), INT = 4d6b3(+4), WIS = 11, CHA = 7

...if you can put up with a hit to DEX and CON, you're a +0 LA large creature with great STR and INT (sounds like a decent base for a Duskblade).

Other goodies include: +6 natural armor, +30 bonus HP (I would assume these are lost when Incarnate Construct is applied) and 40 foot base move...

Can you please detail what books these come from? I would really love to use this but would be hounded for every step I took.

Gaiyamato
2010-03-24, 05:39 AM
1/2 Ogre- Races of Destiny pg 97 <-- You could also use the Half Ogre Template from Dragon Magazine 313 pg 93. This means you could make a Goliath -Half Ogre for the base creature.
Effigy Template - Complete Arcane pg 152 <-- Not a PC Template
Incarnate Construct - Savage Species pg 120
Primordial Giant - Secrets of Xen'drik pg 81

Irreverent Fool
2010-03-24, 06:36 AM
1/2 Ogre- Races of Destiny pg 97 <-- You could also use the Half Ogre Template from Dragon Magazine 313 pg 93. This means you could make a Goliath -Half Ogre for the base creature.
Effigy Template - Complete Arcane pg 152 <-- Not a PC Template
Incarnate Construct - Savage Species pg 120
Primordial Giant - Secrets of Xen'drik pg 81

I disagree about the effigy template due to the fact that the incarnate template *is* a player template and I can think of no non-warforged creatures to which one might apply it if that argument holds.

Oh, and iirc any large or larger incarnate construct already counts as a giant, so you might even avoid effigy.

Edit: I in no way condone playing an incarnate warforged, especially not an incarnate half-minotaur mineral warrior warforged which works out to be something like:
Large [Living Construct] [Earth]
+12 str
-2 dex
+8 con
-2 int
-2 cha
+8 natural armor
DR 8/adamantine
40' speed, 20' burrow
Earth strike 1/day
LA +0

But that's off-topic

obnoxious
sig

herbe
2010-03-24, 09:19 AM
Effigy Template - Complete Arcane pg 152 <-- Not a PC Template

True because there isnt LA so its not playable. But which construct(not living construct) have LA? Incarnate Construct (Savage Species pg 120) makes the creature again PC.

Nice work. I really like it.

Thurbane
2010-03-24, 08:17 PM
1/2 Ogre- Races of Destiny pg 97 <-- You could also use the Half Ogre Template from Dragon Magazine 313 pg 93. This means you could make a Goliath -Half Ogre for the base creature.
Effigy Template - Complete Arcane pg 152 <-- Not a PC Template
Incarnate Construct - Savage Species pg 120
Primordial Giant - Secrets of Xen'drik pg 81

I think the OP is after PC templates. :smallbiggrin:
In regards to Effigy not being a PC template, I concur that "LA -" signifies this, but if the templates are all added at the time of character generation, the Incarnate Construct template cancels this out. It's a DM call, IMHO.

True because there isnt LA so its not playable. But which construct(not living construct) have LA? Incarnate Construct (Savage Species pg 120) makes the creature again PC.

Nice work. I really like it.
Thanks...I'm usually not particularly skilled at this level of cheese. :smallbiggrin:

...so what do people think about the +30 bonus HP...do these disappear when Incarnate Construct is applied? It says that the being loses all Special Qualities, but the bonus HP are not specifically callout out as such. RAI, they should definitely go, but RAW they might stay?

Trekkin
2010-03-24, 08:47 PM
To offset the CON hit, might as well give it the Arctic template.

Thurbane
2010-03-26, 07:31 PM
I'm not familiar with that one, is it from Frostburn?

Trekkin
2010-03-27, 01:43 AM
It's from Dragon 319.

Incidentally, just to add content to the thread: The Mind's Eye included a race called the Alethian Deep Dwarves, with +2 to Con, +2 to Int, and -4 to Charisma.