Tippyverse Vs Exalted

[Justyn]

I'm not going to beat around the bush here. Tippyverse versus the Age of Dreams Solar Deliberative from Exalted.

Who wins, and why?

[The_JJ]

I think we had this already. General consensus was the the Exalts (in general, not whatever specific bit you mentioned) won.

And then the thread was derailed into a TTGL vs. Tippyverse thread. Or perhaps it was the other way around, not sure.

[Justyn]

I think we had this already. General consensus was the the Exalts (in general, not whatever specific bit you mentioned) won.

And then the thread was derailed into a TTGL vs. Tippyverse thread. Or perhaps it was the other way around, not sure.

I remember that there was a TTGL vs Tippyverse thread, but I couldn't find a Tippyverse vs Exalted thread.

[The_JJ]

Like I said, one derailed into the other, someone started a new one for the new rail. I forget what the exact arguments were, other than SPIRAL POWER!

[Fan]

I think we had this already. General consensus was the the Exalts (in general, not whatever specific bit you mentioned) won.

And then the thread was derailed into a TTGL vs. Tippyverse thread. Or perhaps it was the other way around, not sure.

It branched out into that, and it was largely even... with the balance tipping widly to both sides nigh constantly.

It got locked because of so much indecisiveness, and a new rule was made not to pit two Infinite power individuals against each other...

[GoC]

We discussed tippyverse vs. exalted in several other threads (funny how often vs. threads go off topic).
I think the conclusion was :
"Tippyverse wins!"
"No, Exalted wins!"
"Does not!"
"Does too!"
"Does not!"
"Does too!"
"Does not!"
"Does too!"
...

We're not allowed to have this type of discussion anymore. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7228229#post7228229)

[Shadowcaller]

We discussed tippyverse vs. exalted in several other threads (funny how often vs. threads go off topic).
I think the conclusion was :
"Tippyverse wins!"
"No, Exalted wins!"
"Does not!"
"Does too!"
"Does not!"
"Does too!"
"Does not!"
"Does too!"
...

We're not allowed to have this type of discussion anymore. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7228229#post7228229)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg254/Seweron/180px-NO_U_cycle.gif

Indeed.

[Texas_Ben]

And then the thread was derailed into a TTGL vs. Tippyverse thread. Or perhaps it was the other way around, not sure.
The two threads occurred concurrently, but were unrelated. Both were locked and infractions issued (I know because I got two T_T).

Anyways, the Tippyverse vs. Exalted one got locked because people got into a pissing match over infinite vs. approaching infinite... I don't know the settings but apparently one side has saves which are literally infinite, and the other could chain damage indefinitely? I don't know, it was a pretty boring thread to read.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg254/Seweron/180px-NO_U_cycle.gif

Indeed.

Isn't that just every vs. thread though?

[The_JJ]

Actually, the difference between infinite and approaching infinite is very important... but vs. threads are not.

Unless it involves baiting WH40k fanboys or defending the honor of the Disc. (Which wins everytime without the intervention of the Laws of Narrative Causality.)

[Texas_Ben]

Actually, the difference between infinite and approaching infinite is very important... but vs. threads are not.

Yes quite, the thing was that people were arguing over whether being able to chain damage/spells/whatever indefinitely was "infinite" or "approaching infinite", since the thing on the other side was explicitly described as "infinite", and whether 'approaching infinite' was good enough to compete with 'infinite' in game terms. Pretty boring and stupid argument. Doesn't make for a good thread at all.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Especially since infinite is, in fact, > approaching infinite. One side just didn't know math.

[Texas_Ben]

Especially since infinite is, in fact, > approaching infinite. One side just didn't know math.

I'm well aware of that. Though I think we should probably just drop this line of discussion now seeing as how last time it ended in furious retribution from those beings known as mods.

[Shadowcaller]

Unless it involves baiting WH40k fanboys or defending the honor of the Disc. (Which wins everytime without the intervention of the Laws of Narrative Causality.)

That annoy me so much. :smallsigh:

And don't get me wrong, I love discworld as much as the next nerd, but the way it seems every argument with vague logic annoy me to no end.

[The_JJ]

I know! And more important, it fails to hold water. Look at Witches Abroad. The whole point of the book was that you could (and should) fight the story, and win. Gah! Then there's the line in one of the role playing games, warning you not to try and play the Cleaver Peasant Who Outwitted the Troll lest you instead be one of the Eight Peasants Eaten By the Troll Beofer the Hero Showed Up, or perhaps The Clever Human That Got Eaten For Trying to Be Funny.

Oh, and Carrot isn't king.

The point is, the stories don't care whichh way they go. The story could very well be Captain Carrot's Last Stand as whatever annihilates A-M. But for some reason being the underdog=win by their standards. It makes no sense.


... anyway, the Disc wins for three reasons, Death, Susan, and Lobsang. Yay, metaphisical entities that can stop/reverse time at will and have already proven that they're much more invovled and likely to get involved than anybody elses cosmology.

[Fan]

I know! And more important, it fails to hold water. Look at Witches Abroad. The whole point of the book was that you could (and should) fight the story, and win. Gah! Then there's the line in one of the role playing games, warning you not to try and play the Cleaver Peasant Who Outwitted the Troll lest you instead be one of the Eight Peasants Eaten By the Troll Beofer the Hero Showed Up, or perhaps The Clever Human That Got Eaten For Trying to Be Funny.

Oh, and Carrot isn't king.

The point is, the stories don't care whichh way they go. The story could very well be Captain Carrot's Last Stand as whatever annihilates A-M. But for some reason being the underdog=win by their standards. It makes no sense.


... anyway, the Disc wins for three reasons, Death, Susan, and Lobsang. Yay, metaphisical entities that can stop/reverse time at will and have already proven that they're much more invovled and likely to get involved than anybody elses cosmology.

Your apparently less than familiar with the concept of SUPER Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.

The robot that reverses probability of other people's actions succeeding, and punches every point in time, at the same time.. before generating the Spiral Nemesis, and recreating the Universe.

Things got sillier in Lagann hen.:smalltongue:

[Indon]

We discussed tippyverse vs. exalted in several other threads (funny how often vs. threads go off topic).
I think the conclusion was :
"Tippyverse wins!"
"No, Exalted wins!"
"Does not!"
"Does too!"
"Does not!"
"Does too!"
"Does not!"
"Does too!"
...

We're not allowed to have this type of discussion anymore. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7228229#post7228229)

Which, amusingly enough, describes high-end combat in Exalted excellently!


... anyway, the Disc wins for three reasons, Death, Susan, and Lobsang. Yay, metaphisical entities that can stop/reverse time at will and have already proven that they're much more invovled and likely to get involved than anybody elses cosmology.

Exalts have access to causality shenanigans, too, and one of the battles fought in the Primordial War was by all (fragmented) accounts a Time War of sorts (which also makes the Exalts capable of facing the Daleks or Gallifrey).

[The_JJ]

Wasn't really what I was argueing but whatever.

[The Glyphstone]

Your apparently less than familiar with the concept of SUPER Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.

The robot that reverses probability of other people's actions succeeding, and punches every point in time, at the same time.. before generating the Spiral Nemesis, and recreating the Universe.

Things got sillier in Lagann hen.:smalltongue:

Sillier has nothing to do with it, it's just an matter of being the undergod/less favored side. TTGL were the underdogs, and their BURNING FIGHTING SPIRIT let them FIGHT THE POWAH and OVERCOME the disparity by GOING BEYOND THE IMPOSSIBLE, because anything describing TTGL is insufficient without GRATUITOUS CAPITALS.

Against Discworld, though, they don't have that advantage.
-All they have is giant robots that use galaxies as projectile weaponry and can punch every point in time and space simultaneously for MASSIVE DAMAGE. All Discworld has is some assorted city cops/guards, a Wizzzzard skilled at running away, the Witches, and assorted sundry characters such as Death (WHO ALSO SPEAKS IN CAPITAL LETTERS, POTENTIALLY NULLIFYING THAT ADVANTAGE). Simon+Co. have had their positions reversed, since they're now in the place where the Anti-Spirals were in terms of strategic advantage, having galactic domination compared to the resources of a single planet.

Giant Robots > (mostly) humans, even with witch's magic. Thus, Discworld is heavily favored to lose this encounter (heck, one punch from the Super Ultra Mega Gurren(?) could one-shot A'tuin and end the whole thing), and thus its Narrative Casuality will kick in and change the outcome. It's like Tippyverse vs. Exalted, except instead of Infinite Numbers vs. Infinite Numbers, it's Plot Shield of We Win vs. Plot Shield of We Win If We Would Lose/If It Makes A Better Story.

And since the whole point of TTGL is defeating something you have no rights defeating or even standing up to, Rincewind taking out the galaxy-chucking Gurren (by accident, of course) would very much make for an awesome/better story.

[Jerthanis]

Tippyverse, I'm pretty sure, is founded on the idea that it's as easy to be a Wizard as anything, and theoretical societal shifts based on the idea of high populations of high level wizards. As in, in the hundreds of thousands (or at least, this is my impression)

While each of 700 individuals in Exalted have access to "infinity plus one" powers, they run on fuel which can be exhausted. When Abberant Vs Exalted came up here or somewhere else Abberant won despite not having perfect defenses or perfect attacks because high end Abberants can execute hundreds of arbitrarily high damage attacks every round.

So each individual exalt is overwhelmed by the crushing might of hundreds and hundreds of Prismatic Sprays, Fingers of Death, Chained Twinned Maximized Whatevers and so on until dead. Then scry-and-die to keep them dead.

As much as I'm a fan of Exalted, the Tippyverse isn't a game... it's a child holding action figures and indulging in raw power fantasy... with mathematical backup.

[The Glyphstone]

Tippyverse, I'm pretty sure, is founded on the idea that it's as easy to be a Wizard as anything, and theoretical societal shifts based on the idea of high populations of high level wizards. As in, in the hundreds of thousands (or at least, this is my impression)

While each of 700 individuals in Exalted have access to "infinity plus one" powers, they run on fuel which can be exhausted. When Abberant Vs Exalted came up here or somewhere else Abberant won despite not having perfect defenses or perfect attacks because high end Abberants can execute hundreds of arbitrarily high damage attacks every round.

So each individual exalt is overwhelmed by the crushing might of hundreds and hundreds of Prismatic Sprays, Fingers of Death, Chained Twinned Maximized Whatevers and so on until dead. Then scry-and-die to keep them dead.

As much as I'm a fan of Exalted, the Tippyverse isn't a game... it's a child holding action figures and indulging in raw power fantasy... with mathematical backup.

Actually, Tippyverse is exactly the opposite, in terms of population. The original, basic premise wasn't countless high-level wizards, it was one, the titular Tippy (named after the poster), who ruled the entire world of commoners, noncasters, and everyone who wasn't him via high level magics like Mindrape. It's occasionally expanded to a small cabal of said epic/top-level wizards, but the tricks remain the same... a very small group of incredibly powerful people using infinite loops and the logically abusive extension of game rules to completely control a society. Remarkably similar to Exalted, actually, which is why they get matched up so often.

[Fan]

Sillier has nothing to do with it, it's just an matter of being the undergod/less favored side. TTGL were the underdogs, and their BURNING FIGHTING SPIRIT let them FIGHT THE POWAH and OVERCOME the disparity by GOING BEYOND THE IMPOSSIBLE, because anything describing TTGL is insufficient without GRATUITOUS CAPITALS.

Against Discworld, though, they don't have that advantage.
-All they have is giant robots that use galaxies as projectile weaponry and can punch every point in time and space simultaneously for MASSIVE DAMAGE. All Discworld has is some assorted city cops/guards, a Wizzzzard skilled at running away, the Witches, and assorted sundry characters such as Death (WHO ALSO SPEAKS IN CAPITAL LETTERS, POTENTIALLY NULLIFYING THAT ADVANTAGE). Simon+Co. have had their positions reversed, since they're now in the place where the Anti-Spirals were in terms of strategic advantage, having galactic domination compared to the resources of a single planet.

Giant Robots > (mostly) humans, even with witch's magic. Thus, Discworld is heavily favored to lose this encounter (heck, one punch from the Super Ultra Mega Gurren(?) could one-shot A'tuin and end the whole thing), and thus its Narrative Casuality will kick in and change the outcome. It's like Tippyverse vs. Exalted, except instead of Infinite Numbers vs. Infinite Numbers, it's Plot Shield of We Win vs. Plot Shield of We Win If We Would Lose/If It Makes A Better Story.

And since the whole point of TTGL is defeating something you have no rights defeating or even standing up to, Rincewind taking out the galaxy-chucking Gurren (by accident, of course) would very much make for an awesome/better story.

The thing is.. even if you do beat them (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk4tqJSNFiQ&feature=related), they (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du3aJjhfsDo&feature=related) tend (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EztAWwvfRao&feature=related) to get (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pppoTBfG7XU&feature=related) back up. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKT3RFCggKM&feature=related)

Spoilerific links for the second movie.. just as a warning.

[Oslecamo]

Especially since infinite is, in fact, > approaching infinite. One side just didn't know math.

Actualy, there are ways of reaching true infinite in D&D Tippyverse. The omnimancer build, a counter to pun-pun itself, is based on that.