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View Full Version : Existing in Hell (3.5)



Adamaro
2010-03-24, 05:37 AM
I have an idea for this character and would like some advice on his stats.

This guy is a son of a very common man who decided to "make it big" by making a contract with an evil outsider. The effect was, that my character was, together with his entire family, dragged into Hell (Abyss, whatever).
It happened at his age of 3, and he got back at the age of 22, alone and somewhat ... scarred.
All this does not mean that my character is lvl 20 ranger with fav. enemy evil outider but more of a mentally unstable guy with some really weird ticks and a huge paranoia to go.

So.

1. What sort of consequences would such journey bring?

2. How could we trensform this into stats/feats/skills?

tnx

a typical hero
2010-03-24, 05:46 AM
Take a look at Fiendish Codex 1 or 2 for the race Hellbred.

Fits very good, imho.
You can take "devil-touched" feats, which are flavoured as trading your soul for some bonuses and abilities.

licidy
2010-03-24, 05:47 AM
I have an idea for this character and would like some advice on his stats.

This guy is a son of a very common man who decided to "make it big" by making a contract with an evil outsider. The effect was, that my character was, together with his entire family, dragged into Hell (Abyss, whatever).
It happened at his age of 3, and he got back at the age of 22, alone and somewhat ... scarred.
All this does not mean that my character is lvl 20 ranger with fav. enemy evil outider but more of a mentally unstable guy with some really weird ticks and a huge paranoia to go.

So.

1. What sort of consequences would such journey bring?

2. How could we trensform this into stats/feats/skills?

tnx

I like that concept. There are some more questions that need some answering though. Was he underground, resistance, or slave in hell? Did he make notes of demon/devil weaknesses in an attempt to someday exploit them? Or did he only make note of what hurt and how to resist their powers for the sake of survival?

Role-playing-wise, this guy is going to be a HUGE foreigner to the ways of mortal townships. "What do you mean the mayor doesn't eat the first born of every household?" No concept of money exchange either, as souls are the currency in hell. Perhaps a distrust that anyone around you could be a demon/devil in disguise or might rat you out to higher powers. Might take extra precautions to ward the party from extraplanar threats, even when they're not apparent.

For skills, definately max out Know (planes); and perhaps purchase a masterwork tool for the skill. Say a diary all about living in hell might provide a +2 circumstance bonus on Know (planes) when dealing with anything related to Hell in my campaign.

PS - LOL, I like how your signature works in with the post

Geiger Counter
2010-03-24, 05:47 AM
It really depends on how the lower planes work and which specific plane his was raised on. The most obvious character to draw upon from modern fiction is Angel's son Connor. In terms of survivability some of the top layers of carceri and some areas of pandaemonium are the least dangerous. In carceri everyone acts like they are either a prisoner or a guard. Pandaemonium is very much like david firth animations if you ever head of him, it is a land or paranoia, psychopaths and nightmares not bound to the dreams of mortals.

Edit: Personally I hate a lot of WOTC's recent work on outsiders so I wouldn't suggest either fiendish codex.

Just for starters ever notice this, a big flying fire guy, a flying chick with charm, a tiny flying shapeshifter with commune, a sneaky guy with with a weaponized skin, and some sort of cavalry. Pure laziness, they should have just made these fiends of the (any) evil type.

Adamaro
2010-03-24, 06:12 AM
@licidy
1.Was he underground, resistance, or slave in hell?
He was a renegade in hell. "Illegal immigrant" trying to hide from authorities, get food, shelter. Nobodys' friend really.

2.Did he make notes of demon/devil weaknesses in an attempt to someday exploit them?
I guess he learned them as he went. It was "hide and run away" tactics mostly.

3.Or did he only make note of what hurt and how to resist their powers for the sake of survival?
I Wonder what sort of conclusions might say, lvl 2 commoner make in such an enviroment. But it surely was not "I will get me a mind blank ..." Perhaps only strenghtening of the will?

I am also thinking that it would be prudent for a person to pray to a good(or evil) god in such a place and become a cleric. What sort of spells/schools/classes might he use to max. his hiding abilities?

Geiger Counter
2010-03-24, 06:25 AM
As the lower planes stand in greyhawk they are simply not survivable at lower levels. The lower planes are literally made of evil, every blade of grass and grain of sand wants you to suffer. The only plants that grow are probably spiked and poisoned. There are plenty of fiendish animals to eat, however hunting them is a lot harder than it would be to hunt on the prime. What Jaws was to normal sharks, fiendish animals are to regular animals. It would definitely be a bad idea to pray to a good god or simply to have the good alignment while on the lower planes. I don't see how any one can survive there without seriously nerfing the lower planes.

Adamaro
2010-03-24, 06:31 AM
Hmmm. Huuuuuge enslavement camps then?

megabyter5
2010-03-24, 06:50 AM
If he was always hiding out and on the run, Rogue is an obvious choice. I'd advise against Cleric, because devils would notice a good deity interfering on their plane. If you want to go a little bit out of core, Scout has some potential as well. Personally, I suggest CN for alignment, because it seems to capture the feel of that "survivalist" mentality pretty well. And of course, some feats (or perhaps even a template) flavored towards diabolic involvement can't hurt.

licidy
2010-03-24, 07:18 AM
@licidy
I Wonder what sort of conclusions might say, lvl 2 commoner make in such an enviroment. But it surely was not "I will get me a mind blank ..." Perhaps only strenghtening of the will?


Wasn't really thinking mind blank or other high-level stuff. Was thinking more along the of noting what to say/do to get the outsiders to notice you the least, knowing were to hide, how to avoid the slavery roundup, etc.

I agree that rogue or scout make excellent choices. If you were on the run, you might want to try maxing defenses rather than offenses - ie. go high dex, high sneak, maybe even high face while avoiding high str, high dmg, casting, etc.

And yes, any Good alignments or Good Divine Casting would probably be uprooted and mounted on pikes ASAP in hell. :smallwink:

Calmar
2010-03-24, 07:46 AM
The easiest way to survive in the Nine Hells is to be like the Nine Hells. That is lawful evil. Hide and cower before the powerful and kick the weak.

According to Planescape lore, a plane itself repels beings of different alignments. For example dord it take a lot more time for a chaotic creature to reach a destination in the hells than for a lawful one. In case LE doesnt fit the character concept, I'd still stay within one step (LN, or NE).

Rad
2010-03-24, 08:20 AM
I can see two ways for this character to be implemented: either he fit in (although he was still hunted he became akin to their captors) or he became a polar opposite.
Firts case: Go on with taint, be Evil and all that. To survive in Hell you became alike to it. You are a renegade from Hell, but emphasis is on "from Hell".
Second case: You resisted (spiritually). Hell is your worse enemy and you have nothing but contempt for anything resembling it. It meshes well with the "holy" character types such as clerics, paladins and the such (I think I saw a paladin/rogue PrC in complete scoundrel).
Either way is an interesting concept (actually, may I steal it for a NWN module?). I saw that the different kind of suggestions were polarized in this way. Personally, I'd go for the "good" side but it largely depends on the rest of the campaign.
Hope this helps!

Telonius
2010-03-24, 09:06 AM
This sounds like a great background for a Warlock. Dad sold the family's souls, but you can't actually do that without consent. So, the devils just overlooked that fact and gave the kid the standard Warlock power package anyway. He's not technically indebted to them the way most evil Warlocks would be, but he believes he is. Of course he still might willingly be doing the devils' work, which means his soul is theirs regardless. (Not a bad deal for the devil who wrote the contract).

Parra
2010-03-24, 10:58 AM
I figure Bluff would be quite a handy skill to survive in Hell where posturing could get you by.

Maybe your char was a Go-For for a stronger Devil, who essentially protected him and took the opertuninty to jump through a Portal (or some such) to escape.

I reckon one of the easiest ways to survive in hell is to live in one of the cities, Dis for example, where you can find relative anonimity for street-urchin style survival. Food would be easier to find and there would be less random wandering critters looking to eat you

the humanity
2010-03-24, 11:16 AM
he could be a fighter/beguiler who simply melted into the military atmosphere on Avernus.

granted that would no doubt be a hard build to make truly effective, beguiler/rogue might fit better.

WeeFreeMen
2010-03-24, 11:36 AM
In my opinion:
The fluff best fits the classes
Scout/Ranger

He could have started off as a scout, able to do hits and runs if needed but above all be able to run off without being tracked (Class feature), as well as the Skirmish bonuses that adds to survivability. (Take Improved Skirmish for more defense goodness). As for ranger, perhaps he started to develop a seething hatred for them, after the numerous slave round ups and such maybe one time he stood and fought just because he was fed up or something cliche happened (Mother got rounded up, or dragged away). After standing up to fight for himself, even tho his paranoia are still prominent he gained a liking to the killing and even a knack for it (Favored Enemy). You can go either way, melee or ranged but personally Id take ranged for the true "Survivor" feel. To me someone half way crazed/scared/paranoid isnt going to take some swords to a baddie that could very well drag them to their doom.

Feats that come to mind.
-Improved Init- He has to be the first to move, Its in his nature because lets face it, as Zombieland showed us. The slow ones get nixed first.
-Improved Fav Enemy/Skirmish - Improve your defenses, Improve your seething hatred. (Perhaps he enters a frenzy when his paranoia hits a limit. I once used "Sanity Dice" for a character, if I ever got 3 6's on the dice. He would just explode in a frenzy) [Oddly, 3 6's fits your theme]
-Endurance -> Indomitable Will: As horrible as the pre reqs are. +Con to Will is awesome. Its purely survival, and it makes sense fluff wise. Sub optimal, but if your playn scout/ranger you already knew that :smallbiggrin:
-

(There is a feat in Comp. Scoundrel that allows both Scout and Ranger levels to stack for some class abilities)

Throw in some Skill tricks (Even home brewed ones). One that comes to mind is the "Collector of Stories" gives a +5 on a knowledge check. IE: You know crap because you were there. ;P

When I get home from work Ill find more feats but these are off the top of my head.
Best of luck.

Rad
2010-03-24, 12:23 PM
In my opinion:
-Endurance -> Indomitable Will: As horrible as the pre reqs are. +Con to Will is awesome. Its purely survival, and it makes sense fluff wise. Sub optimal, but if your playn scout/ranger you already knew that :smallbiggrin:

Actually it's not that bad since Rangers get Endurance for free.
Swift hunter is not that bad of a build, actually. Not huge, but decent, and one of the best archers that I know of.

WeeFreeMen
2010-03-24, 04:16 PM
Actually it's not that bad since Rangers get Endurance for free.
Swift hunter is not that bad of a build, actually. Not huge, but decent, and one of the best archers that I know of.

Oddly enough, Its my favorite class or class combination to play.
For some reason I feel so cool with Shot on the Run and Skirmish/FavoredE

Some of the CoR and SpC Ranger spells make up for the lack luster.
And I didnt even notice rangers get Endurance free, so that is actually really awesome for the builds sake.

Captain Six
2010-03-24, 06:25 PM
This sounds like a great background for a Warlock. Dad sold the family's souls, but you can't actually do that without consent. So, the devils just overlooked that fact and gave the kid the standard Warlock power package anyway. He's not technically indebted to them the way most evil Warlocks would be, but he believes he is. Of course he still might willingly be doing the devils' work, which means his soul is theirs regardless. (Not a bad deal for the devil who wrote the contract).

I'm surprised it took so long for someone to say that. If it came down to living in hell a pact might not even occur, the mortal simply becomes tainted with a hellish mutant soul and all the powers it bestows. Maybe (if the campaign starts out high enough) the exposure at such a young age he has physically turned him into a Fiendish [PC race], I've always wondered how something like that could happen. Fiendish Heritage from Complete Mage is also a pretty feat tree, and unlike most heritage's I've seen don't require caster levels. And because it grants Spell Like Abilities later on it is actually pretty helpful for non-magic classes to have a few tricks up their sleeves.

TheMadLinguist
2010-03-24, 09:36 PM
A reflavored Otyugh Hole legendary location seems absolutely perfect.