Wu Jen or Warmage Blaster? <3.5>

[LichPrinceAlim]

Which is a better pureblood blaster/nuker: Wu Jen or Warmage.

and what PrCs are great for "He who wants the room to die in one spell?"

[Optimystik]

Warmage is only better if you can get into 10/10 Rainbow Servant. Otherwise, Wu Jen.

[Sinfire Titan]

Wizard or Sorcerer, actually. Warmage's damage bonus does not compensate for their poor spell list, and Wu-Jens are very poorly supported.


Actually, the best Blaster outright is either the Artificer or the Spell to Power Erudite. You can't really beat their novas...

[LichPrinceAlim]

Wizard or Sorcerer, actually. Warmage's damage bonus does not compensate for their poor spell list, and Wu-Jens are very poorly supported.


Actually, the best Blaster outright is either the Artificer or the Spell to Power Erudite. You can't really beat their novas...

well, we have a Duskblade/Frost Mage, a Ranger, and a Tank Cleric, so I need to be a wipeout nuker.

Wizard and Sorcerer, the DM said I have to be "creative," Artificer is banned, and Psionics are banned

[Sinfire Titan]

well, we have a Duskblade/Frost Mage, a Ranger, and a Tank Cleric, so I need to be a wipeout nuker.

Wizard and Sorcerer, the DM said I have to be "creative," Artificer is banned, and Psionics are banned

You don't need a Blaster. You have three tanks, let them do the damage. Play a Dragonfire Bard if you want to help their damage output, but don't waste your character sheet by playing a pure Blaster.

[LichPrinceAlim]

You don't need a Blaster. You have three tanks, let them do the damage. Play a Dragonfire Bard if you want to help their damage output, but don't waste your character sheet by playing a pure Blaster.

Bard isn't a real class.

And every player who ever plays a bard in our campaign dies in the first encounter (Our DM hates bards)

and how is the Duskblade/Frost Mage a fricken tank? all he does is stays at a distance and imbues arrows with Flesh to Ice

[Sinfire Titan]

Bard isn't a real class.

And every player who ever plays a bard in our campaign dies in the first encounter (Our DM hates bards)

and how is the Duskblade/Frost Mage a fricken tank? all he does is stays at a distance and imbues arrows with Flesh to Ice

1: Bards are very powerful if played right (they got a lot of love from splats).

2: Duskblades can't channel spells into arrows. That requires a different class entirely.

3: Your Duskblade's player is doing it wrong, though he can still benefit from a Dragonfire Bard.

[Vizzerdrix]

How is he imbuing arrows?

[RagnaroksChosen]

it realy depends if you want to focus on an element like be a fire mage then go wujen if your wanty top be an all around blaster or mobile artilery go warmage.

[jiriku]

Sorcerer definitely has more potential as a blaster than either warmage or wu jen. Ask if he'd consider a colorful backstory and a vivid character persona as acceptably clever.

My last blaster sorcerer was a githyanki plainswalker who had been everywhere, seen everything, and was bored with it all. He wore pajamas and slippers on adventures, because he really couldn't be bothered to get dressed just to adventure on the boring old prime material, and was constantly pulling anachronistic devices he'd acquired on his travels out of his handy haversack, like Marlboro cigarettes, an iphone ("dammit, it still says no signal!", packages of marshmellows, and such.

Which is to say, playing a sorcerer doesn't make you uncreative or dull.

[Thefurmonger]

all he does is stays at a distance and imbues arrows with Flesh to Ice

How the crap does he Imbue Arrows?

[Sinfire Titan]

How the crap does he Imbue Arrows?


How is he imbuing arrows?

I all ready Lampshaded this...

[Starbuck_II]

Snake Darts deal Con damage: you can kill things easily that way. Remember you get 2 darts per spells: Each dart deals unerrantly 3d6 damage. Then each dart causes poison of 1d6 Con damage (1 minute later as well) if fail fort save.

Best Wu Jen spell: one thing Wizards can't imitate.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Snake Darts deal Con damage: you can kill things easily that way. Remember you get 2 darts per spells: Each dart deals unerrantly 3d6 damage. Then each dart causes poison of 1d6 Con damage (1 minute later as well) if fail fort save.

Best Wu Jen spell: one thing Wizards can't imitate.

actualy that brings up a good point there is a bunch of con damaging spells wujens get i blieve even an aoe one or two.

[Sinfire Titan]

Snake Darts deal Con damage: you can kill things easily that way. Remember you get 2 darts per spells: Each dart deals unerrantly 3d6 damage. Then each dart causes poison of 1d6 Con damage (1 minute later as well) if fail fort save.

Best Wu Jen spell: one thing Wizards can't imitate.

Limited Wish would like a word with you. As would Eternal Wands.

[Vizzerdrix]

on the subject of the Wu Jen, is their a spontaneous variant any place?

[RagnaroksChosen]

Limited Wish would like a word with you. As would Eternal Wands.

I thought eternal wands still had top be on your spell list for you to use them...

And yes limited wish can mimic it. mainly cuz wish/limited wish is rediculous.

[Yuki Akuma]

I thought eternal wands still had top be on your spell list for you to use them...

Not at all, no. You need to be able to cast arcane spells.

A Magewright could use them.

[Optimystik]

I thought eternal wands still had top be on your spell list for you to use them...

And yes limited wish can mimic it. mainly cuz wish/limited wish is rediculous.

Limited Wish is actually nicely balanced. 300 exp just to mimic a 4th-level spell is more than fair.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Not at all, no. You need to be able to cast arcane spells.

A Magewright could use them.

hmm thats a little rediculous... but i guess i can understand for 2 uses a day.

[LichPrinceAlim]

Number one: On the subject of the Duskblade, he's imbuing his bow, which it was ruled as an "Enchantment" he casts on it every round, then the arrow is thus imbued with flesh to ice. He also took a feat that lets him affect creatures larger than medium as a medium creature for the sake of spells, grapple, ect.

Number two: What about Jester from Dragon Magazine Compendium? Isn't it a good class for Inspiring allies while debuffing foes?

Number three: I like Wu Jen over wizard and Warmage over sorcerer. Wizard/Sorcerer in our campaigns are cliches.

Number four: I say bard is not a real class because either they are inspire-nazis, sorcerer wannabes, or are sitting with their thumbs up their bum. Not to mention bards in our campaigns die rather frequently, due to our DM's thought that bard is "broken," which I say the opposite. If it had a good analoge for its LOST SPELLCASTER LEVELS, then it'd be worth it to me (though I adore Master of Masks from Complete Scoundrel and can find joy in Sublime Chord: the staple PrC for any bard)

[RagnaroksChosen]

Number one: On the subject of the Duskblade, he's imbuing his bow, which it was ruled as an "Enchantment" he casts on it every round, then the arrow is thus imbued with flesh to ice. He also took a feat that lets him affect creatures larger than medium as a medium creature for the sake of spells, grapple, ect.

Number two: What about Jester from Dragon Magazine Compendium? Isn't it a good class for Inspiring allies while debuffing foes?

Number three: I like Wu Jen over wizard and Warmage over sorcerer. Wizard/Sorcerer in our campaigns are cliches.

Number four: I say bard is not a real class because either they are inspire-nazis, sorcerer wannabes, or are sitting with their thumbs up their bum. Not to mention bards in our campaigns die rather frequently, due to our DM's thought that bard is "broken," which I say the opposite. If it had a good analoge for its LOST SPELLCASTER LEVELS, then it'd be worth it to me (though I adore Master of Masks from Complete Scoundrel and can find joy in Sublime Chord: the staple PrC for any bard)

I'd say go for wujen over warmage. just so you have some thing other then blasting Like just in case.

[Escheton]

dragon shaman
wait, hear me out
though its not spelllobbing blasting, it is a decent area damage affect on a continual basis with some nice auras and enough hp, and through 1 of the auras hp regen, to have the cleric not need to worry about healing and just tank away.

[Eldariel]

dragon shaman
wait, hear me out
though its not spelllobbing blasting, it is a decent area damage affect on a continual basis with some nice auras and enough hp, and through 1 of the auras hp regen, to have the cleric not need to worry about healing and just tank away.

So...you're trying to say Dragonfire Adept? Well, if you abuse Metabreath feats with Dragonborn of Bahamut, I guess you can make it work out almost as well as Metamagick'd anything with metareducers.

[Emmerask]

I'd say go for wujen over warmage. just so you have some thing other then blasting Like just in case.

Who doesn´t want to play a giant mage with his giant familiar (giant size spell)^^
Wu Jen is fun :smallwink:

[Kylarra]

Number two: What about Jester from Dragon Magazine Compendium? Isn't it a good class for Inspiring allies while debuffing foes?

Number four: I say bard is not a real class because either they are inspire-nazis, sorcerer wannabes, or are sitting with their thumbs up their bum. Not to mention bards in our campaigns die rather frequently, due to our DM's thought that bard is "broken," which I say the opposite. If it had a good analoge for its LOST SPELLCASTER LEVELS, then it'd be worth it to me (though I adore Master of Masks from Complete Scoundrel and can find joy in Sublime Chord: the staple PrC for any bard)It's kind of funny that you suggest Jester while denouncing Bard since they're essentially two-sides to the same half caster coin.

[LichPrinceAlim]

It's kind of funny that you suggest Jester while denouncing Bard since they're essentially two-sides to the same half caster coin.

Jester's spell list is more aggressive than Bard's, so it works in my favor

[Pechvarry]

Warmage. Use the PH2 Eclectic Learning ACF to cover the gaps.

You know why? 'Cuz the rest of you have taken this batmannery way too far. Being a pure blast caster is acceptable and will only fall short in the most optimized of campaigns. And I doubt yours is that.

[LichPrinceAlim]

Warmage. Use the PH2 Eclectic Learning ACF to cover the gaps.

You know why? 'Cuz the rest of you have taken this batmannery way too far. Being a pure blast caster is acceptable and will only fall short in the most optimized of campaigns. And I doubt yours is that.

*Hisses at the mention of the infamous Batman Warmage*

We habe things like a Warforged Fighter, Warforged Monk, and a Human Cleric/Prestige Paladin/Radiant Servant of Pelor/Shadowstriker (Lot of DM negotiation). So I'd assume its non-optimized. Christ, we have an Incubus Assassin!

[CTLC]

wilder, nuff said, check dungeons.wikia for an optimized build.

[LichPrinceAlim]

wilder, nuff said, check dungeons.wikia for an optimized build.

psionics are banned, as is ToB classes

[The Glyphstone]

If you want to be a blaster, be a warmage. It is the best option of what you have available.

If you want to be a blaster while ever having so much as the slightest hope of doing anything except blasting for as long as your character lives, be a wu jen.

That's really the split here. Warmages get lots of blasting, and only blasting. Wu jens get less blasting, but something that actually approaches flexibility.

[Escheton]

I know the topic mentions 2 classes and which of them is better suited, but why hasnt warlock been opted. Like dragonshaman, doesnt run outta spells, decent dmg output and neat extras, durabilitywise. And seeing it isnt a tier godzilla party should be alright.

[magic9mushroom]

Some people are getting reasonably close to Stormwinding this thread.

At blasting, yes, Warmage works well. We just can't understand why you want to blast.


Actually, the best Blaster outright is either the Artificer or the Spell to Power Erudite. You can't really beat their novas...

That might have something to do with the StP Erudite's ability to stop time indefinitely, am I right?

[Hida Reju]

I would go with Warmage but understand you are not a mage you are a piece of mobile Artillery that unless massive optimization occurs maxes out pretty quick.

Warmage into Incantrix with Searing spell and Orb of Fire with Arcane Thesis.

Make sure to get some way to use Quicken spell on a 4th lvl spell without increased casting time. Then Empower/Maximize for fun with like a 6th lvl slot.

Soon you are dumping 100's of damage all at once with a flick of the wrist that ignores all resistances and even gets 1/2 damage though immunities.

Take improved initiative pump up the CHA and CON. Dump STR, INT, and Wis unless you are going for Rainbow Warsnake. Better if you can avoid point buy all together and get a decent set of stats.

Use Eclectic Learning ACF to get any buff you want I suggest Fly and multiple images. Or pick some more battle field or Crowd control spells like Solid Fog, Glitterdust, Darkness, or Web

[LichPrinceAlim]

I would go with Warmage but understand you are not a mage you are a piece of mobile Artillery that unless massive optimization occurs maxes out pretty quick.

Warmage into Incantrix with Searing spell and Orb of Fire with Arcane Thesis.

Make sure to get some way to use Quicken spell on a 4th lvl spell without increased casting time. Then Empower/Maximize for fun with like a 6th lvl slot.

Soon you are dumping 100's of damage all at once with a flick of the wrist that ignores all resistances and even gets 1/2 damage though immunities.

Take improved initiative pump up the CHA and CON. Dump STR, INT, and Wis unless you are going for Rainbow Warsnake. Better if you can avoid point buy all together and get a decent set of stats.

Use Eclectic Learning ACF to get any buff you want I suggest Fly and multiple images. Or pick some more battle field or Crowd control spells like Solid Fog, Glitterdust, Darkness, or Web

Ow...My soul....

That's devistation in a milisecond!

and I'm guessing Star Elf, Lesser Aasamir, and Human are staples in this type of build?

[RagnaroksChosen]

Ow...My soul....

That's devistation in a milisecond!

and I'm guessing Star Elf, Lesser Aasamir, and Human are staples in this type of build?

I belive just human. Extra feet is nice.

[LichPrinceAlim]

I belive just human. Extra feet is nice.

well, I though a bonus to CHA would be nice (More spells = more fun?)

and the Warweaving Incantrix is just a funny thought

[sofawall]

Number one: On the subject of the Duskblade, he's imbuing his bow, which it was ruled as an "Enchantment" he casts on it every round, then the arrow is thus imbued with flesh to ice. He also took a feat that lets him affect creatures larger than medium as a medium creature for the sake of spells, grapple, ect.

You do know that enchantments on a bow only apply to arrows if they specifically say they do, right?

Also, what is that feat?

[LichPrinceAlim]

You do know that enchantments on a bow only apply to arrows if they specifically say they do, right?

Also, what is that feat?

1. Our DM based it on logic and reflection. He treats Flesh to X spells infused onto the bow as if it were a "Bow of Fire," and would it make sense if you enchanted your bow to have Flesh to Ice and you have to hit them with the bow (not an arrow)?

2. Leviathin Slayer

[sofawall]

1. Our DM based it on logic and reflection. He treats Flesh to X spells infused onto the bow as if it were a "Bow of Fire," and would it make sense if you enchanted your bow to have Flesh to Ice and you have to hit them with the bow (not an arrow)?

2. Leviathin Slayer

1. There are weapon abilities like that, that do not transfer to the arrows, that you have to beat someone with the bow to use.

2. Where is it?

[LichPrinceAlim]

1. There are weapon abilities like that, that do not transfer to the arrows, that you have to beat someone with the bow to use.

2. Where is it?

1. Our DM made his ruling so it made logical sense. It was either let him use it this way, or he made Mike Tyson. And we do not want that crap!

2. Hellifiknow. He pulled it out of some obscure book

[AtwasAwamps]

1. Our DM made his ruling so it made logical sense. It was either let him use it this way, or he made Mike Tyson. And we do not want that crap!

2. Hellifiknow. He pulled it out of some obscure book

Not to be an absolute jerk, but I think he made it up or is misreading the feat, because otherwise I don't care how obscure that thing is, it would be much more well-known if it was that strong. It could be third party material.

I'm not going to touch the Duskblade thing...it doesn't really match with how the class is supposed to work, but considering the way you guys play, it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference.

[LichPrinceAlim]

Not to be an absolute jerk, but I think he made it up or is misreading the feat, because otherwise I don't care how obscure that thing is, it would be much more well-known if it was that strong. It could be third party material.

I'm not going to touch the Duskblade thing...it doesn't really match with how the class is supposed to work, but considering the way you guys play, it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference.

1. Third Party is our friend (sometimes). Me, I stick to well known books (Like Completes)

2. We needed a ranged nutcase, and he always plays a frostmage (our ranger is a TWF Pouncer), so it made sense (in his demented head) to be able to flesh to ice anything bigger than he was

[the humanity]

who cares about the duskblade, really? he isn't making the class overpowered, just let it go.

warmage 2/bard 1/warmage 9/sublime chord 8.

if you could work it right, all the ranged touch attacks on your low level spells, decent cantrips, and a wider range of high level spells (final rebuke, time stop) to add to it.

that's my idea. your DM will probably not like it, but it would be worth the fewer spell slots and -1 caster level IMO.

if you can't, go warlock and hellfire warlock all the way. if you're gonna be a blast machine, don't run out of ammo.

[LichPrinceAlim]

who cares about the duskblade, really? he isn't making the class overpowered, just let it go.

warmage 2/bard 1/warmage 9/sublime chord 8.

if you could work it right, all the ranged touch attacks on your low level spells, decent cantrips, and a wider range of high level spells (final rebuke, time stop) to add to it.

that's my idea. your DM will probably not like it, but it would be worth the fewer spell slots and -1 caster level IMO.

if you can't, go warlock and hellfire warlock all the way. if you're gonna be a blast machine, don't run out of ammo.

Ummm...Bard isn't a real class?

and the DM hates Warlocks and DFA's, claiming they are cheated.

However, could a Warmage/War Weaver/Incantrix be a non-broken nuker?

[sofawall]

Ummm...Bard isn't a real class?

Why is bard not a real class?

[Zen Monkey]

If you're looking at wu jen as an unusual caster, you might also take a look at shugenja. They're from the same general world and both have a 'wizard, but different' theme.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Ummm...Bard isn't a real class?

and the DM hates Warlocks and DFA's, claiming they are cheated.

However, could a Warmage/War Weaver/Incantrix be a non-broken nuker?

warweaver i don't think would be worth it. as you don't have enough buff spells?


also sofawall: i belive hes mentioned his distain for bards repeatedly in this thread.

[Kylarra]

Why is bard not a real class?He had a traumatic issue with a bard he played 9 years ago and has been denouncing them ever since.

[the humanity]

it was just one level in bard though...

:/

in that case, go Warmage, with archmage levels so you can avoid nuking your buddies, and use the extra spell feat(CAr) to get some really cool back up tricks.

[The Glyphstone]

Ummm...Bard isn't a real class?

and the DM hates Warlocks and DFA's, claiming they are cheated.

However, could a Warmage/War Weaver/Incantrix be a non-broken nuker?

No. To start with, it's a functionally useless mix...War Weaver is a PrC based around buffs, of which the Warmage has none whatsoever. Incantatrix is one of the 3-4 cheesiest PrCs in existence barring the Unholy Trinity (Beholder Mage, Illithid Savant, Tainted Scholar). Even as a nuker, Incantatrix is still incredibly powerful by default.