Glass Daggers (3.5 weapon)

[the humanity]

the concept: a hollow glass weapon that automatically breaks when you stab somebody with it. this would constantly do piercing damage whenever the opponent moves, and it could be filled with lovelies like acid, alchemists fire or a double dose of poison (1 outside, 1 inside).

I was thinking damage as a dagger (1d4 crit 19-20x2), and 1d4 piercing for every round in which the character moves in some way, + whatever damage is available from the filling. each can only be used once (duh) and is treated as masterwork because making such a weapon would require a skilled artisan.

how much would this cost do you think?

[Ashtagon]

That depends. What is the condition for ending the 1d4 per round effect? Until he dies? A cure spell of some sort? A Heal skill check? An action spent removing the dagger?

[DracoDei]

I would say a heal check should do it, with DC scaling on on many rounds it has been doing damage... for magic, I would say nothing lower than Regeneration should push the glass out and end the effect, anything less just seals the wound over around the shard, actually making it HARDER to remove. This has the advantage of giving the Heal skill more longevity (although I think that its usefullness against poison and disease keeps it useful for a few levels).

[the humanity]

what draco dei said, with the option of a DC 10 search check followed by a DC 10 heal check (to find and then remove the glass) that as a total give the character 2d4 more damage regardless of result. this requires a full round action during which the character remains absolutely still.

for each cure spell used on the character, 2 damage is added to the total damage from removal and 2 added to both checks. that way it's not a bad idea to heal a friend in the single digits up, but he should tough it out if the fights over.

I'm planning on having this be the signature weapon for a group of hire out assassins, and trying to determine the amount each should logically carry.

[Ashtagon]

Realistically, whatever the residual damage from the dagger is, it should certainly be lower than that for having it strike the target is in the first place. The initial strike not only has the size/bulk of the weapon, but also has some measure of strength/force involved too.

Conceptually, the harpoon (Frostburn and others) has some similar fluff, in that the weapon's business end sticks into the target. The only penalties are half speed while impaled by the harpoon, Concentration check when casting, possible restricted movement if the attacker holds on to the trailing rope, and one-time damage only if the person who removes the harpoon fails a DC 15 Heal check.

Compared to that, although ongoing damage may in some way be realistic, it certainly isn't balanced. Why should a dagger do ongoing damage where a harpoon doesn't?

[arguskos]

I'd like to note that the Dragon Compendium has stats for glass crossbow bolts. They deal normal damage, but have an 18-20/x3 crit range. Further, due to their fragility, they have a chance to break if the person carrying them is hit in melee combat.

This concept could be expanded to glass daggers. Say they have a crit range of 18-20/x3, break on a hit, deal an extra +2 damage, and voila! You have a decent one-use weapon.

I think that adding over-time damage from the glass is needlessly complex and added bookkeeping, when you could just do that with poison or whatever. Just an alternate train of thought. :smallwink:

[the humanity]

the harpoon just sticks out. and half speed can be very huge if you have fast opponents with spring attack :P

I could reduce it to 1 damage if you do something not too dexterous and 1d4 if you double your movement or do something that requires a lot of movement, such as an escape artist check or tumble, or something jarring, like a pit trap, tripping, or being bull rushed.

and I suppose making it just the heal check would be easier. and far less annoying.

EDIT: (to above) that just feels terribly unrealistic though...

[Human Paragon 3]

D&D isn't reaistic. If you take damage every round from a piece of glass, you should take damage every round from a metal arrow head, and bleed every round from each wound.

The high crit rating and the fact that you can fill it with a harmful substance make it an interesing, flavorful and effective choice already. Plus it's not affected by heat metal or any effect that would sense, attract or repel metal, which is kinda cool.

[the humanity]

oi. if I left it as is anyways, what would you price such an item? it's a one time use weapon that breaks easily. its going to be about as one time only as a Beguiler using fireball. the slow rate of damage will be useless for a group of PCs which kills all their enemies in 5 rounds anyways.

also, I'm still considering your suggestions, but would like to have my original question answered.

you guys are right, it was set to be a terribly complex process anyways, I'll just stick with poison, maybe make a note about a reddish glass that dissolves on contact with blood.

[herbe]

Because its a masterwork(+1 on attack) it costs at least 300 gp. About 320-400 gp because of its bleeding damage and only one-used. Plus posions, of couse, they arent included

[the humanity]

nice.

might let my PC's buy some.

might overprice them a little so they don't take Quick Draw and abuse them.

[arguskos]

Here's what I might use as a basic weapon (I'll even toss in a magical one for you :smallwink:). In fact, I might even use the following in my own games.

Shatterknife: This unique and potent weapon is masterful crafted by expert glassblowers. Each shatterknife is a glass stiletto, filled with a single substance upon it's creation. Such substances include injury poisons, alchemical substances, or even holy/unholy water. A shatterknife is a masterwork light exotic weapon and deals 1d4 slashing damage, with a critical range of 18-20/x3. It is destroyed upon a successful attack, releasing it's inner substance to the target. Alchemical substances deal damage as per normal, and poisons immediately affect the target as normal. If the wielder of a shatterknife is struck in melee combat while holding a shatterknife or has a shatterknife on their person, the shatterknife has a 25% chance to shatter and be destroyed (subjecting the wielder to the effect of the contained substances). For this reason, most users of shatterknives only carry one at a time, and ensure they strike first.

A shatterknife costs 310 gp, plus the cost of the contained substance.

Shatterspike: This +1 corrosive shatterknife is a unique magical weapon, developed by an enterprising assassin. Upon his death, the blade has been circulating the assassination circles, as it's owner eventually dies and passes the blade on to his successor or rival. Shatterspike has two unique magical properties. First, though it breaks as normal for a shatterknife, it reforms 1 round later, in it's wielder's hand. When it reforms, it does not contain any substance inside the blade. Second, it can absorb substances to be delivered with a successful attack as a full-round action by touching the blade to the substance to be absorbed. This lets the user refill the weapon for another attack.

Shatterspike costs 6,310 gp to make (4,310 for the weapon itself, 1,000 for the unique refilling ability, 1,000 for the reforming ability).

[the humanity]

arguskos, I owe you (and the boros guild) a great debt.

I really like the second one.

[arguskos]

arguskos, I owe you (and the boros guild) a great debt.

I really like the second one.
Hahaha, someone got the name without asking me. :smallbiggrin: Also, sure thing dude. Help yourself man, glad you like it.

[Admiral Squish]

Your design is cool, but an alchemical blade does the same thing, but it doesn't break with each swing. Well, an alchemical blade with a little modification, but I doubt any DM would be averse to putting poison or holy water in the alchemical chamber.

[Latronis]

I don't know if i'd want to give up my melee weapon, for a nastier than normal stabbing.

As a thrown weapon however it appeals

[Mulletmanalive]

I was questioning this because i thought the original post assumed that it was possible to snap a glass tube [from work as a lab-tech, i know that's not what happens, it turns into a bunch of glass splinters].

Magic of Eberron did something similar but always [for whatever reason] filled these 1 damage pokey items with helpful alchemy...

[imp_fireball]

the concept: a hollow glass weapon that automatically breaks when you stab somebody with it. this would constantly do piercing damage whenever the opponent moves, and it could be filled with lovelies like acid, alchemists fire or a double dose of poison (1 outside, 1 inside).

I was thinking damage as a dagger (1d4 crit 19-20x2), and 1d4 piercing for every round in which the character moves in some way, + whatever damage is available from the filling. each can only be used once (duh) and is treated as masterwork because making such a weapon would require a skilled artisan.

how much would this cost do you think?

It shouldn't constantly do damage. An arrow that sticks in someone doesn't constantly do damage unless it's tipped with the ebola virus.

Give it an equipment bonus to damage - the problem? Not much glass exists in the middle ages, and in europe most of that is reserved for stain glass windows or whatever. So it might cost slightly more then regular metal daggers.

Another idea is that it would cost a little less - but it would break whenever it misses due to shield or armor AC (breaks upon impact with armor). Worse still, armor and shield AC apply when a character is flat footed, so it doesn't make a quick draw rogue's job any easier.


I was questioning this because i thought the original post assumed that it was possible to snap a glass tube [from work as a lab-tech, i know that's not what happens, it turns into a bunch of glass splinters].

An alchemist could chemically treat glass to snap instead of splinter. Let an alchemist perform aid another with a glass crafter, and you can create snapping vials, maybe (or use some other rule for crafting with invented materials).

[Unahim]

Shouldn't a glass weapon get an attack penalty? The way stone weapons and such do?

[Agi Hammerthief]

generally I'm with the continuous damage, if only at 1hp per round and no extra penalties for healing/removing the shards; use the mechanics for Bleeding.


I wouldn't want to use a dagger like this in combat
(except for the Shatterknife mentioned)
but as a safe delivery system or poison
(with no chance to poison yourself when filling it, unless its contact poison of cause - but usually poison that needs to be in the blood is safe to even drink)
it would be cool as [hand] crossbow bolts, which can be used as Improvised Daggers if need be.

also it should shatter if it hits any kind of armor, plus you should allow for a protective box that reduces the risk of shattering when the character is hit.

[the humanity]

the original design (in my mind) was a small jutting piece halfway down the blade.

upon stabbing, the jutting piece broke the blade inward due to pressure and the continuing to stab just drove the poison in deeper.

and penalties? armor negation? this is a limited weapon already. and glass btw, is far easier to work into a good form than most stone. it's smooth after you melt it for one.