OOTS #709 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[afroakuma]

Ooh... so did the MitD cause the rain? :smalleek:

Curiouser and curiouser...

[Szilard]

I wonder where that island is...

[Phase]

That sounds like a paladin to me, if not O-Chul specifically.

Great comic, fleshes out the relationships between secondary characters very well.

[GalenDev]

That was a very heartwarming scene. And like usual, thank you Tsukiko for the black humor.

I know I'm not the only one who feels for the MitD.

[Acero]

yay! back to the Paladins.

[Elfin]

Poor O-Chul...one ordeal after another.
Nice parting line, though.

[The Unlucky One]

Fun to see some good old Tsukiko speech about good :smallbiggrin:

Nice comic Rich

[Lin Bayaseda]

Did anyone notice that for more than 10 strips in a row now, we haven't seen any of the titular characters? Not that I'm complaining, the story is great, as usual, just wondering if it's a new direction for the strip.

[Thorcrest]

Well done Rich! Great Comic! I love the Roaches!

[Maximum Zersk]

"A man's worth isn't determined by what, if anything, is between his femurs!"

Preach it, Tsukiko. :smallamused:

[Herald Alberich]

Heh, poor Lien. You'd think she'd like the water, but I guess not when it's falling on her. Then again, I like swimming but not rain, too.

[Orodruin]

It seems MitD can "see" where O-Chul is and that it's raining there. He just doesn't know what that place is?

[Chaelos]

The two last panels are incredibly sweet. Bravo.

[ScottishDragon]

Hmm how did o-chul get on the island?Did he get shipwreched or something?
Doesn't look like their is any other islands around and I don't think he would stick himself on an island withought any form of sustenance on purpose.Something must have happened:smalleek:

[slayerx]

Oh man, all these updates are making up for the wait but man i feel like i'm gonna get spoiled rotten =p

And damn that O'Chul how dare he tell MiTD to make decisions for himself! That paragon of paladinhood and him poisoning MitD's mind. MitD should just do what the lich tells him to do, just like other "good" non-paladins


Hmm how did o-chul get on the island?Did he get shipwreched or something?
Doesn't look like their is any other islands around and I don't think he would stick himself on an island withought any form of sustenance on purpose.Something must have happened
They were traveling by Shark...
And they got to sleep sometime, so they got to take the first piece of land they can find

[ThePhantasm]

So... scene switch to O-Chul now? Or maybe just a one-off joke?

All these scene switches are confusing me. Seems like we are following the Redcloak plot, then Elven plot, then Monster plot, then O-Chul plot.... and none of them seem to be going much of anywhere yet.... no doubt there is a master plan behind all this that I don't see yet.

Funny strips though... I've really enjoyed the humor in these past few.

[SPoD]

It seems MitD can "see" where O-Chul is and that it's raining there. He just doesn't know what that place is?

He's not seeing anything. He's wishing for something that he knows O-Chul likes, sort of like saying, "I hope it's sunny wherever he is."


Hmm how did o-chul get on the island?Did he get shipwreched or something?
Doesn't look like their is any other islands around and I don't think he would stick himself on an island withought any form of sustenance on purpose.Something must have happened:smalleek:

Nothing so dramatic. Lien and O-Chul are traveling across the ocean to Kraagor's Gate on shark-back. They stopped for a rest when they saw an island. End of story.

[lothos]

Very Nice.
I must confess that I hadn't even thought about team evil trying to bring O'Chul back, but that's exactly what they would try to do just to exact revenge....

So I love the way that Cloister is helping out the good guys... Haley and Celia being protected from scrying back in Greysky city, now O'Chul (and presumably V as well) now. It's an intricate web of plot devices that consistently impresses me.

Oh, and it's very funny too. That counts for a lot.
:-)

[Herald Alberich]

Very Nice.
I must confess that I hadn't even thought about team evil trying to bring O'Chul back, but that's exactly what they would try to do just to exact revenge....

Well, and to prevent him from sharing everything he learned in captivity, which is precisely the first thing he did.


So I love the way that Cloister is helping out the good guys... Haley and Celia being protected from scrying back in Greysky city, now O'Chul (and presumably V as well) now. It's an intricate web of plot devices that consistently impresses me.

Epic magic'll do that.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

"I know all about paladins, trust me. All they do is boss you around and tell you what you can't do. 'Don't walk on the grass, don't litter, don't rape the cycle of life with your unclean power.' Blah blah blah."

Notice how O-Chul is sleeping just fine in the rain? His Fortitude save modifier is so high, bad weather has to save against him for nonlethal damage!


Giant, this is awesome. Next time I visit a gaming store, I'm buying Start of Darkness just for the fast updates.

[ScottishDragon]

Nothing so dramatic. Lien and O-Chul are traveling across the ocean to Kraagor's Gate on shark-back. They stopped for a rest when they saw an island. End of story.

Ah forgot about that shark of liens.Orrrr...the shark is killed by a kraken,o-chul and lien swim to safety of a nearby desert island,withought food or water they are certain to die,MWAHAHAHAHH(hack,cough cough)

[ThePhantasm]

Nothing so dramatic. Lien and O-Chul are traveling across the ocean to Kraagor's Gate on shark-back. They stopped for a rest when they saw an island. End of story.

That's what I'm hoping. I'm not particularly interested in a scene-shift to O-Chul right now. I want to see Xykon and Redcloak get their rears in gear out of Azure City.

[DSCrankshaw]

Heh, nice. And there's nothing in this one to start a 10-20 page argument about moral justification, so yay for that too.

[Maximum Zersk]

Heh, nice. And there's nothing in this one to start a 10-20 page argument about moral justification, so yay for that too.

Is O-Chul sleeping through the rain Morally Justified? :smallamused:

[Starscream]

Hilarious. The MITD's theory about Xykon is particularly funny.

[Sinfonian]

Absolutely wonderful comic, and I'm loving the fast updates!

"Obscure plot minutiae in your face!":roach:

[Inhuman Bot]

Is O-Chul sleeping through the rain Morally Justified? :smallamused:

No.

It's not very nice to make the water have to be exposed to the burning radiance of the mighty O-chul. :smalltongue:

[SPoD]

That's what I'm hoping. I'm not particularly interested in a scene-shift to O-Chul right now. I want to see Xykon and Redcloak get their rears in gear out of Azure City.

Given that this scene started with the MitD looking for O-Chul, I think it's ending here, with him giving up on finding him today. I'd bet we're going back to the Order next strip.

[martinkou]

Is O-Chul sleeping through the rain Morally Justified? :smallamused:

When O-Chul wants rain to help him sleep, it pours so hard the whole realm is flooded except for the small island on which O-Chul sleeps - and he's still morally justified.


It's not very nice to make the water have to be exposed to the burning radiance of the mighty O-chul.

When water is exposed to O-Chul's burning radiance, it becomes holy water that can cure cancer.

[Werewindlefr]

Sleeping in the cold rain. And he won't even catch a cold: that's constitution 18+ for you.

Also, I am surprised, but extremely happy, that updates have been more frequent lately.

[The_Weirdo]

Paladins are immune to disease, IIRC. Rain is mostly an annoyance to them.

[Vercon]

Insomnia, a new OOTS . I guess life is give and take. I agree about the roaches, they're awesome.

[Halefor]

Rain isn't always cold, and it they were still pretty close to the equator, I can easily see sleeping out in it so long as it doesn't get too windy.

[Yendor]

Absolutely wonderful comic, and I'm loving the fast updates!

"Obscure plot minutiae in your face!":roach:

And thus explains why V couldn't find Haley after all that time.

[Shale]

You mean other than when Crystal said exactly that?

[Conuly]

If Cloister lasts for months, why is Xykon recasting it every few weeks? Just to be extra-prepared? That doesn't... well, it doesn't seem LIKE him. Maybe he forgets he's cast it already?

[The_Weirdo]

And thus explains why V couldn't find Haley after all that time.

Please tell me it didn't take this strip for you to notice this.

[Zxo]

Great jokes :D

This comic confirms that the ritual Xykon gave Tsukiko is the Gate ritual - it is very unlikely that there are other half arcane, half divine rituals he might be interested in.

[Blaznak]

Go Go Umbrella of Perpetual Darkness!

[Optimystik]

If Cloister lasts for months, why is Xykon recasting it every few weeks? Just to be extra-prepared? That doesn't... well, it doesn't seem LIKE him. Maybe he forgets he's cast it already?

Boredom is my guess. He doesn't have much else to blow his epic slots on.


Great jokes :D

This comic confirms that the ritual Xykon gave Tsukiko is the Gate ritual - it is very unlikely that there are other half arcane, half divine rituals he might be interested in.

Yep. Score another point for the accurate predictors. :smallwink:

And man, the comics are flowing lately! :smallbiggrin:

[Enlong]

Oh crap.

The ritual is half-arcane, half-divine?

If this means what I think it does, things are about to get even worse for Redcloak, once Xykon finds out what that ritual really does.

[Blaznak]

Notice how O-Chul is sleeping just fine in the rain? His Fortitude save modifier is so high, bad weather has to save against him for nonlethal damage!



You, you... you mean O-Chul is Chuck Norris? :smallbiggrin:

[Yendor]

Please tell me it didn't take this strip for you to notice this.

:smallsigh: It's been long enough that the first Cloister should have worn off long ago. That it was still in effect means it was cast on Haley again.

[ScottishDragon]

You, you... you mean O-Chul is Chuck Norris? :smallbiggrin:

No,he is way better.

[Turkish Delight]

These lightning fast updates are awesome and unexpected. I guess it's feast or famine; either the Giant is too sick or busy or whatever to do strips for a few weeks or he's feeling great and cranking them out like hotcakes.

This DOES open up a question, though. They couldn't divine the location of O'Chul, but V wasn't there when the last Cloister spell was cast. If they were interested enough to try and find the Paladin, couldn't they have just divined the location of the elf who zapped out with him?

Or perhaps they need a name. Not sure how the scrying spells work in 3.5.

[Conuly]

Boredom is my guess. He doesn't have much else to blow his epic slots on.

That was my first thought too, but really? Is casting Cloister actually more interesting than making slaves fight to the death and, I don't know, slaughtering little puppies?

[Enlong]

Even Vaarsuvius's Enhanced Scrying needed a name, so yeah, probably.

And anyway, I doubt Xykon even remembers O-Chul's name. He's very bad with those.

[Eldariel]

Awwww. MiTD is so heartwarming. And Tsukiko is a bitch. I hope Xykon turns her into a banshee or something; gives her a more fitting form.

[Shale]

It takes seconds to cast, he's not using his epic slots for anything else (he seems to prefer crafting magic items to researching epic spells), and it guarantees fewer intrusions like Vaarsuvius'. Where's the downside?

[martinkou]

You, you... you mean O-Chul is Chuck Norris? :smallbiggrin:

Chuck Norris is just an O-Chul wannabe. :smalltongue:

[Liwen]

That better be high tide, or O-Chul is gonna drown by morning :smalleek:.

Big news, if Xykon's been renewing Cloister every few weeks, it means Belkar is unscryable until the end of his life and well over it! Now the question is, if someone is within the cloistered territory and effected by cloister, can you scry on him from within the cloistered territory? If not then team peregrine and the insurgents are likely undetectable as well. Which kinda make sense, since Redcloak probably would have divined out the resistance's headquarters location by now if he could.

[golden pony]

So uhmm is that rain panel at the end a ehart warming joke or does it also mean that the MitD did again his wish-like thing to make a rain that actualyl does help O'Chul sleep???

[Herald Alberich]

That better be high tide, or O-Chul is gonna drown by morning :smalleek:.

Big news, if Xykon's been renewing Cloister every few weeks, it means Belkar is unscryable until the end of his life and well over it! Now the question is, if someone is within the cloistered territory and effected by cloister, can you scry on him from within the cloistered territory? If not then team peregrine and the insurgents are likely undetectable as well. Which kinda make sense, since Redcloak probably would have divined out the resistance's headquarters location by now if he could.

I'm pretty sure that's the case based on Celia's exposition. It affects the area, preventing outside magic from getting in, and also affects living creatures in the area, preventing them from being scryed on, period.


So uhmm is that rain panel at the end a ehart warming joke or does it also mean that the MitD did again his wish-like thing to make a rain that actualyl does help O'Chul sleep???

Probably the former, in my opinion. We don't know that he caused the rain the first time, anyway.

[martinkou]

Great jokes :D

This comic confirms that the ritual Xykon gave Tsukiko is the Gate ritual - it is very unlikely that there are other half arcane, half divine rituals he might be interested in.

Once Tsukiko manages to understand the Gate ritual, Xykon will no longer need Redcloak. Gobbotopia could very well become Wightotopia very soon.

[Conuly]

It takes seconds to cast, he's not using his epic slots for anything else (he seems to prefer crafting magic items to researching epic spells), and it guarantees fewer intrusions like Vaarsuvius'. Where's the downside?

It requires him to think and plan ahead.

[Drolyt]

Wow, me likes the fast updates. This one is more plot heavy than the last one as well, and lends support to the theory that the MitD is making it rain so O-Chul can sleep.

[Herald Alberich]

Once Tsukiko manages to understand the Gate ritual, Xykon will no longer need Redcloak. Gobbotopia could very well become Wightotopia very soon.

She doesn't have the Divine half, though, and neither does Xykon. She said the missing half was Divine; it's clear she puzzled that out by looking at the Arcane half Xykon gave her.


It requires him to think and plan ahead.

He can do that. He just doesn't, often.

[Drolyt]

She doesn't have the Divine half, though, and neither does Xykon. She said the missing half was Divine; it's clear she puzzled that out by looking at the Arcane half Xykon gave her.

Besides that she needed the MitD's help just to figure that much out, and obviously Xykon had no luck or he wouldn't be asking her. It's also possible that Tsukiko isn't powerful enough for the divine half (maybe it requires 9th level spells or something and Redcloak is 17th level+). Still, the fact that Xykon is looking into it means he doesn't trust Redcloak anymore. The founding of Gobotopia may have caused Redcloak to grow a pair, especially since it's starting to look like his goal could actually be realized and he never really intended to keep his bargain with Xykon (I imagine he wasn't originally planning to screw Xykon too bad, since he was a great help, but after what Xykon did to Redcloak's family...).

[otakuryoga]

Ah forgot about that shark of liens.Orrrr...the shark is killed by a kraken,o-chul and lien swim to safety of a nearby desert island,withought food or water they are certain to die,MWAHAHAHAHH(hack,cough cough)


paladins can cast create food and create water


and....daaaawwwwwww soooooooo sweet

[John Cribati]

Today marks the first time that this comic has made me cry tears of non-laughter. Those final two panels were simply beautiful.

[thubby]

I'm guessing redcloak is having xykon refresh the cloister to cover the goblin units moving in and out of the city.

or they may not know the exact duration, if they guessed days then every few weeks (1d/lvl*20something) is about right

and this was one of the sweetest comics to date ^,^

[Dr Bwaa]

Adorable strip!

Plus, the recent rate of comic-posting is absolutely fantastic. Many thumbs up!

[doodthedud]

Is O-Chul sleeping through the rain Morally Justified? :smallamused:

What? one of the good guys doing what they should?!?!?

NONSENSE! Clearly this strip is showing the oppression rain has to face! Did we ever think that the good guys might actually be the bad guys and all the villains like evil rainstorms holding you back are the ones that have to suffer?!?!?

Maybe we shouldn't assume rain hitting us is a bad thinG! It's just misunderstood! It doesn't want to spoil our day! It just wants to be left alone!

[Draconi Redfir]

three updates in under two weeks (i think). may many great things come your way Rich ^^

[Degnared]

The real moral outrage is O-Chul's rain dependency keeping Lien from getting any rest.

[Covenantwgw]

ok so no scrying...which we knew. Was this just a segue comic?

[thubby]

ok so no scrying...which we knew. Was this just a segue comic?

does everything have to advance the plot?

[amanojaku]

Wow, I never liked tsukiko, but now I kind of empathize with her a little.

Her view on paladins is exactly how I see most forum mods.

[Katana_Geldar]

Yes!

And now I can see a segue into Lien and O-Chul's journey. It must be low tide where they are.

[doodthedud]

Wow, I never liked tsukiko, but now I kind of empathize with her a little.

Her view on paladins is exactly how I see most forum mods.

If you mean the ones that force you to go to an overinflated discussion thread and lock a thread about a specific issue, I'd have to agree there....

[Selene]

Oh, those were images I did not need in my head. Also, Tsukiko is annoying as hells. But I like the update anyway. Did he actually send O-Chul more rain?

[Herald Alberich]

Yes!

And now I can see a segue into Lien and O-Chul's journey. It must be low tide where they are.

I hope it's high tide, or they're not going to be napping much longer. And Lien won't be able to summon Razor until ... I dunno, what does "once per day" mean here? Midnight or morning?

[doodthedud]

I hope it's high tide, or they're not going to be napping much longer. And Lien won't be able to summon Razor until ... I dunno, what does "once per day" mean here? Midnight or morning?

The tide cannot harm O-Chul, it dare not rise!!

[zimmerwald1915]

How many times does this make that MitD has tried to psycho/sexu-analyze Xykon? What does it say about MitD that he keeps trying?

[Sahura1337]

ok so no scrying...which we knew. Was this just a segue comic?

Well it seemed to me like it might've shown that MitD has some sort of ridiculous powers. When he was passionate about something, poof! O-Chul vanished. When he hoped his closest and dearest friend had rain to help him sleep? It rained.

I don't follow this comic as closely as others so some one's probably going to correct me in a manner which invalidates my entire point, but that's how -I- took this comic.

[Shale]

It's certainly hinting in that direction. If we shift focus to O-Chul and Lien for a while, then the last panel is just a scene change. If we don't? Then the only purpose it serves is to show us that yes, it really was raining when the MitD said that.

[Mastikator]

The monster in the dark has to have some seriously epic magic capabilities if he can subconsciously cast epic scrying and control weather on O-Chul's behalf.

[Vulkan]

O-Chul is awesome :smallbiggrin:

[thubby]

The monster in the dark has to have some seriously epic magic capabilities if he can subconsciously cast epic scrying and control weather on O-Chul's behalf.

unless the effect is just targeted off of o'chul, without the need to know where he is.

[Mastikator]

Huh? How does that work?

[silvadel]

You know -- Tsuikiko is definitely PERFECT for understanding the ritual as a whole being a mystic theurge. She might even be able to figure out things that the dark one might be keeping from redcloak about the whole thing. She definitely would be able to figure out that Xykon is being duped.

It is a shame about the MITD with Ochul -- I wonder if MiTD is making it rain more for him whether consciously or unconsciously.

[doodthedud]

Huh? How does that work?

I'd go ahead and say it's a safe bet it DOESN'T.

[Celisasu]

Besides that she needed the MitD's help just to figure that much out, and obviously Xykon had no luck or he wouldn't be asking her. It's also possible that Tsukiko isn't powerful enough for the divine half (maybe it requires 9th level spells or something and Redcloak is 17th level+). Still, the fact that Xykon is looking into it means he doesn't trust Redcloak anymore. The founding of Gobotopia may have caused Redcloak to grow a pair, especially since it's starting to look like his goal could actually be realized and he never really intended to keep his bargain with Xykon (I imagine he wasn't originally planning to screw Xykon too bad, since he was a great help, but after what Xykon did to Redcloak's family...).

Well to a certain degree Xykon is right not to trust Redcloak. After all, Redcloak did lie to Xykon about what the ritual does. It does indeed put the Snarl under someone's control, but that someone isn't Xykon and Redcloak, it'll put it under the Dark One's control. Redcloak was originally hoping that after Xykon found out(after the spell was cast) that he could bribe him with some high ranking position in Gobotopia. Of course at the time Xykon was still alive so who knows how Redcloak's plans have changed since.

[Maximum Zersk]

Wow, I never liked tsukiko, but now I kind of empathize with her a little.

Her view on paladins is exactly how I see most forum mods.

Wow, which forums do you go to? :smalleek:

[Agi Hammerthief]

sweet,

the roaches talk again!!!

MitD idn't swollow Tsuikikos paladin rant, the raised eybrow of Monster San is a nice touch.

[Herald Alberich]

I'm guessing redcloak is having xykon refresh the cloister to cover the goblin units moving in and out of the city.

I like this idea, assuming Reddy can convince Xykon to flex his Epic muscles for a few hobgoblin immigrants. Perhaps Xykon just goes along with it to keep in practice, like others have said.


or they may not know the exact duration, if they guessed days then every few weeks (1d/lvl*20something) is about right

This doesn't make sense, though. If Tsukiko knows the duration is months, so does Xykon.

[Warren Dew]

Awwww. MiTD is so heartwarming. And Tsukiko is a bitch.
How so? The monster wanted her to try to scry on O-Chul, and she had already done it. Sounds to me like she did her best.


I imagine he wasn't originally planning to screw Xykon too bad, since he was a great help
Well, he originally planned to shaft the hobgoblins, despite their being a great help, so I question whether he was planning to be any more nice to Xykon.

[RMS Oceanic]

D'aww. :smallsmile:

Two suspicions. First, the return to MitD is the bookend for this visit to Team Evil, and we'll most likely return to the Order next strip, or as an outside possibility the Linear Guild.

Second suspicion, if Tsukiko can reverse engineer the Divine part of the ritual, Redcloak is in trouble. Either she figures out what it does, or she actually manages to alter it so it works as Redcloak advertised it.

[whitelaughter]

Once Tsukiko manages to understand the Gate ritual, Xykon will no longer need Redcloak. Gobbotopia could very well become Wightotopia very soon.
Correction - once Tsukiko understands the ritual, Tsukiko will no longer need either Xykon or Redcloak.(She'll probably keep Xykon as a bed toy, of course).

[factotum]

Second suspicion, if Tsukiko can reverse engineer the Divine part of the ritual, Redcloak is in trouble. Either she figures out what it does, or she actually manages to alter it so it works as Redcloak advertised it.

As already pointed out, she doesn't HAVE the Divine half--she said it was missing, remember?

As for the strip, I'd be surprised if this was a switch to O-Chul and Lien. They appear to be in the middle of nowhere--nothing interesting likely to happen there.

[zimmerwald1915]

As already pointed out, she doesn't HAVE the Divine half--she said it was missing, remember?

As for the strip, I'd be surprised if this was a switch to O-Chul and Lien. They appear to be in the middle of nowhere--nothing interesting likely to happen there.
But Nowhere doesn't have a seacoast!

[Lizard Lord]

Is anyone else tired of hearing Tsukiko complain about how the humans of Azure City were mean to her for being a necromancy using necrophiliac?

[doodthedud]

Is anyone else tired of hearing Tsukiko complain about how the humans of Azure City were mean to her for being a necromancy using necrophiliac?

Yeah, she sounds a bit like Miko, only less extreme.

[Killer Angel]

"magic fingers"...
LOL.
Great strip, Giant. As always... :smallbiggrin:

[delguidance]

Is there a chance that the paladins are not on an island but an ice raft of some sort? The overall lighting & rain of the scene made me think that in cooler colors and ice seemed more likely than sand. A desert island that little without the cliched 1 palm tree is less likely than some kind of spell that would let them make an island of ice to get through the night.

Also Great comic. Rich=jawsome.

[LuisDantas]

I don't know why some people are so convinced that MitD caused the rain. There is such a thing as normal rain, after all.

Given his sudden comment about rain and the way he apparently guessed out of nowhere that Tsukiko had only half of the spell in #700 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html), it would seem far more likely that he has some sort of paranormal perception and is unconsciously scrying O-Chul himself.

It is also interesting that he is naive and inexperienced, but actually outsmarted Tsukiko in the discussion about the qualities of Paladins. He remembered and understood that O-Chul wants him to make his own decisions, while Tsukiko can't even perceive her own contradiction.

Second strip on a row that makes Tsukiko look real bad. I used to think she would eventually give Redcloak a run for his money. Now I am not so sure. Although she will sure deserve her fate when RC grows his full set.

[martinkou]

They appear to be in the middle of nowhere--nothing interesting likely to happen there.

So was Vaarsuvius right before the IFCC found it.

[Moran]

"Obscure plot minutiae, in your face!"
These are the little gems that make my day. Thanks, Giant. :smallbiggrin:

[zimmerwald1915]

I don't know why some people are so convinced that MitD caused the rain. There is such a thing as normal rain, after all.
But there is no rain that would willingly choose to be anywhere near a aquacidal, rain-oppressing paladin, whose only thought for the rain's very existence is whether or not it can please him, and so rain must be forced into said paladin's presence by the deluded attempts at courtesy of said paladin's newest mind-slave.

It only makes sense! Wake up, sheeple!

[Katana_Geldar]

:elan: It's NEVER "just" raining (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0199.html)

[Tundar]

I know I'm not the only one who feels for the MitD.

You aren't.

[RMS Oceanic]

As already pointed out, she doesn't HAVE the Divine half--she said it was missing, remember?

Yes, possessing part of a code leaves it possible to figure out the rest. That may or may not be the case here, depending on how Rich wants the story to go, but since she understands both sides of the coin, Tsukiko would be the best placed to at least attempt reconstructing the ritual.

[Rainbownaga]

I thought it was a pun but couldn't remember her name...

Lein, Japanese, yeah, i get it.

Strangely nobody else mentioned the word 'pun'

[Garwain]

Xykon can perform the arcane part of the ritual, but not the divine part. He doensn't know what the ritual actually does.
Tsukiko can understand both parts if she can get the divine part, but she isn't capable of casting it.
RC knows what the ritual does, but can only cast the divine part.
MitD seems quite capable of understanding the ritual, even at first sight, but can he cast it? I bet he can do the arcane part.

I guess they're all screwed, muhaha.

[snafu]

I thought it was a pun but couldn't remember her name...

Lein, Japanese, yeah, i get it.

Strangely nobody else mentioned the word 'pun'

That's because her name's Lien, not Lain. It's Vietnamese; Azure City has always been a generically east Asian mish-mash.

Lain is a quite different character: a super-hacker in cute teddy bear pyjamas. Go watch her series if you want your brain to melt and dribble out of your ears.

[Ron Miel]

Lien is Lord Hinjo's vassal. There may be a pun there.

[Klytus]

His Fortitude save modifier is so high, bad weather has to save against him for nonlethal damage!

O-Chul - the Chuck Norris of the OoTS 'verse! :smallamused:

[Woodsman]

Oh, just brilliant.

I can't describe it any other way.

[Kobold-Bard]

I admit it, I daaaaaawwww'd at the last two panels.

Goddamn you Giant, making me all fuzzy about a black splodge under an umbrella and a bald man :smallwink:

Keep em coming. PLEEEEEASE!!!!! (I know, I know, but I can dream can't I).

[iTookUrNick]

Wow, the Giant is really picking up his pace! And with quality content, too!

Also, imho it's best to cut back to the jokes and away from morality issues for a while. People here seem to have strong opinions about those.

[Kumo]

Wow, the Giant is really picking up his pace! And with quality content, too!

Ya think he updates based on how annoyingly long a discussion gets? :smalleek:

No, i'm not serious! Geez!

[Snake-Aes]

Is O-Chul sleeping through the rain Morally Justified? :smallamused:

Is the RAIN morally justified by wetting O-Chul and Lien?

[Kareasint]

Lien does have an option for getting out of the rain. She has the earring that lets her stay under water. Might leave her waterlogged but at least she can sleep.

Tsukiko now realizes that she is missing the divine part of the ritual. I wonder how long it will take her to figure out that Redcloak has the divine half.

[Kish]

Wow, which forums do you go to? :smalleek:
I would think the mods on most forums would object to posters raping the cycle of life with their unclean power.

BThe founding of Gobotopia may have caused Redcloak to grow a pair, especially since it's starting to look like his goal could actually be realized and he never really intended to keep his bargain with Xykon (I imagine he wasn't originally planning to screw Xykon too bad, since he was a great help, .
He said that he planned to offer Xykon a cushy retirement in the new goblin nation originally.

[Snake-Aes]

does everything have to advance the plot?

It DID advance the plot.
It showed that the paladin duo is making progress towards reaching the Kraagor Gate. It showed Tsukiko figuring out the ritual, opening precedent for Xykon to make redcloak teach her the divine part, which is very likely going to be explosive.
It also confirmed that Cloister was being refreshed quite before it was about to expire, protecting O-Chul for what is likely more time than he will even need until Xykon x O-Chul can happen again.

And it also made a bunch of people blame :mitd: for the rain, because it's totally unlikely to rain in an equatorial zone, on the sea, at night. They even seem to completely overlook the fact that the only magic we saw :mitd: cast made it's eyes glow, which did not happen in #709.

[pendell]

Wooo, another update! It's like Christmas came in March!

Yup, Tsukiko is indeed studying the Gate ritual. A little bit more lampshading.

*Chuckle* and the rain is indeed helping O-chul sleep.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Lkctgo]

I KNEW IT. Xykon you balless fiend!

[Otter]

I love the speculation about the rain. Either MiTD sees him and doesn't know where he is, it's raining outside and he assumes it's raining where O'Chul is (unlikely) or he's creating the rain for O'Chul. Still reminds me of a quote from Zen Monk Daito:

No umbrella, starting to rain, let the rain be your umbrella."

Love it.

[Big Hungry Joe]

"it's nighttime, I think" -- heh! This comic had 4-5 good jokes all jammed together.

[RebelRogue]

Is the title a reference to anything? It usually is, but it didn't really ring a bell for me this time.

[doodthedud]

Wow, the Giant is really picking up his pace! And with quality content, too!

Also, imho it's best to cut back to the jokes and away from morality issues for a while. People here seem to have strong opinions about those.

That whole O-Chul/Rain thing is VERY morally questionable, man.

[Kobold-Bard]

Is the title a reference to anything? It usually is, but it didn't really ring a bell for me this time.

No Fly Zone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fly_zone)

I would imagine.

[RebelRogue]

No Fly Zone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fly_zone)

I would imagine.
Thank. It's not a term I was really aware of, but it makes sense.

[Name_Here]

I don't know why some people are so convinced that MitD caused the rain. There is such a thing as normal rain, after all.

Given his sudden comment about rain and the way he apparently guessed out of nowhere that Tsukiko had only half of the spell in #700 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html), it would seem far more likely that he has some sort of paranormal perception and is unconsciously scrying O-Chul himself.

It is also interesting that he is naive and inexperienced, but actually outsmarted Tsukiko in the discussion about the qualities of Paladins. He remembered and understood that O-Chul wants him to make his own decisions, while Tsukiko can't even perceive her own contradiction.

Second strip on a row that makes Tsukiko look real bad. I used to think she would eventually give Redcloak a run for his money. Now I am not so sure. Although she will sure deserve her fate when RC grows his full set.

Actually I think MITD's comment is based on his past experience with O-Chul.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0550.html

3rd to last panel shows that O-Chul has told MITD that the rain helps him sleep. Therefore MITD wishing that wherever O-Chul is the rain is helping him sleep doesn't need to be any kind of epic level scrying or limited wish spell.

Could be of course but it seems more likely that this is nothing more than an incredibly sweet moment of MITD remembering a little fact about a missing friend.

[doodthedud]

Actually I think MITD's comment is based on his past experience with O-Chul.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0550.html

3rd to last panel shows that O-Chul has told MITD that the rain helps him sleep. Therefore MITD wishing that wherever O-Chul is the rain is helping him sleep doesn't need to be any kind of epic level scrying or limited wish spell.

Could be of course but it seems more likely that this is nothing more than an incredibly sweet moment of MITD remembering a little fact about a missing friend.

Thank you for being sensible.

[talkamancer]

Thank you for being sensible.

So what your saying is the tarrask doesn't have epic scry or weather control ?:smallsmile:

[whitemane]

Wonderful comic! Of course, anything with O-Chul in it has it's awesomeness raised by a factor of 10...

[Silverraptor]

Uh-Oh.:smalleek:

I think Xykon has actually starting to question what the spell Redcloak has does what it says. If he finds out that it doesn't do exactly like he said it did, Redcloaks in trouble.

[doodthedud]

So what your saying is the tarrask doesn't have epic scry or weather control ?:smallsmile:

I'm saying that not every scene implies an ability MitD has. Some of it is just for the "awwwwww"

[Scarlet Knight]

Lien does have an option for getting out of the rain. .

Sure, she uses her cloak & makes a "Lien-to".... :smallwink:

[Optimystik]

So what your saying is the tarrask doesn't have epic scry or weather control ?:smallsmile:

It can't talk either :smalltongue:


Given his sudden comment about rain and the way he apparently guessed out of nowhere that Tsukiko had only half of the spell in #700 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html), it would seem far more likely that he has some sort of paranormal perception and is unconsciously scrying O-Chul himself.

That's not likely at all - O-Chul is still Cloistered.

While the MitD might be capable of breaking through epic magic, he should at least show some effort, like the Splices did.


Sure, she uses her cloak a makes a "Lien-to".... :smallwink:

The Niu thread was bad enough :smallsigh:

[dps]

"Yearning for balls". :smallbiggrin:

[sihnfahl]

I think Xykon has actually starting to question what the spell Redcloak has does what it says. If he finds out that it doesn't do exactly like he said it did, Redcloaks in trouble.
Or he could just be having her learn it to emphasize the fact to RC that RC needs Xykon more than Xykon needs RC.

[Conuly]

Sure, she uses her cloak a makes a "Lien-to".... :smallwink:

Oh god, that's terrible. That's just... no. I can't even express how much I never want to think of this pun again. NO.


Could be of course but it seems more likely that this is nothing more than an incredibly sweet moment of MITD remembering a little fact about a missing friend.

Sadly, I have to agree. "MitD makes the rain fall!!!!" is more interesting, but not actually more plausible.

[Drolyt]

Actually I think MITD's comment is based on his past experience with O-Chul.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0550.html

3rd to last panel shows that O-Chul has told MITD that the rain helps him sleep. Therefore MITD wishing that wherever O-Chul is the rain is helping him sleep doesn't need to be any kind of epic level scrying or limited wish spell.

Could be of course but it seems more likely that this is nothing more than an incredibly sweet moment of MITD remembering a little fact about a missing friend.

Rather, nobody disagrees with you on that part. The question is, when reminiscing about O-Chul, is it possible that the MitD actually made it start raining for him? The main reason it comes up is because way back when the strip you linked to first came out there were theories that the MitD made it rain for O-Chul.

[Aaron]

"HEY! A man's worth isn't determined by what, if anything, is between his femurs!"

Loved it! :smallbiggrin: Glad to see that the Mitd is geting smarter from O-Chul's lessons.

[Name_Here]

Rather, nobody disagrees with you on that part. The question is, when reminiscing about O-Chul, is it possible that the MitD actually made it start raining for him?

It doesn't seem like the storm just rolled in on O-Chul in the last panel.


The main reason it comes up is because way back when the strip you linked to first came out there were theories that the MitD made it rain for O-Chul.

My god really? Are people really that desperate to give MitD the credit for everything?

[Drolyt]

It doesn't seem like the storm just rolled in on O-Chul in the last panel.



My god really? Are people really that desperate to give MitD the credit for everything?

Wait a minute here. That's a perfectly legitimate theory. We've already seen that he can tell that Tsukiko only had half the ritual, even though that ritual requires two really high level spellcasters. He can also apparently teleport people from a distance, which honestly could only be done with miracle or wish unless he has Archmage levels. The ability to cause weather is pretty easy next to those, assuming he has like sorcerer levels or something or maybe wish as a spell-like ability.

[Sijo]

...And yet another strip in a row that I just didn't find funny. I don't care for sex-related humor. I can't stand the demon roach, either. I hope it gets squashed some day.

At least it did help advance the plot, something many other recent strips didn't do either. MitD has started to learn to question things rather than naively accept everything he's told. This will lead, at some point, to MitD having to actively *choose* to help his friend (rather than do it by accident) against Xykon and company. THAT will be cool.

Btw, at the rate we're going, I wonder if we'll EVER learn exactly what MitD is. I fear the author may just decide to have it destroyed/banished in the end without showing what it was, since being The Monster In The Dark is what defines it. Anything else might be anticlimatic.

[Samuraiko]

Wow, another fast update! Hope this means you're feeling better, Rich.

And hooray for the return of O-Chul! (And the demon roaches... they so need their own t-shirts in the QUOTES section of the shop.)

[doodthedud]

Wait a minute here. That's a perfectly legitimate theory.

Bahahahahahaha. Ahahahahaa. Hah.

[mucat]

Thank you for being sensible.
Now never let it happen again.

[Drolyt]

Now never let it happen again.

Sensibility? On an internet forum? Blasphemy! The inquisition will take you!

By the way, I thought this was one of the funniest comics in a while and that it advanced the plot. I'm also highly pleased with the fast updates, hopefully this means The Giant is doing well. Not sure what people are complaining about.

[Name_Here]

Wait a minute here. That's a perfectly legitimate theory.

It's the plot to "The Meloncholy of Harahui Suzumiya". Not that there's anythign wrong with that. I love Suzumiya I just don't think Rich would be so transparent as to lift MitD's powers from there.


We've already seen that he can tell that Tsukiko only had half the ritual, even though that ritual requires two really high level spellcasters. He can also apparently teleport people from a distance, which honestly could only be done with miracle or wish unless he has Archmage levels. The ability to cause weather is pretty easy next to those, assuming he has like sorcerer levels or something or maybe wish as a spell-like ability.

The ritual thing doesn't really lead itself to "he thinks things and magic happens." While the Teleporting of V and O-chul was done in a moment of incredible stress not just done off hand just by thinking it.

Overall I say it's infinitely more likely that the rains we saw are nothing more than what you always get when you combine the ocean and a warm environment.

[fruityjanitor]

Heh, nice. And there's nothing in this one to start a 10-20 page argument about moral justification, so yay for that too.

Is Tsukiko having a "Hobgoblins keep out" sign on her door morally justified?

[Big Hungry Joe]

It's also interesting how Cloister can have unintended benefits to those affected if they are on the other side. Not only is O-Chul in stealth mode, but it makes it that much harder for enemies in the city to be tracked down as well. If Xykon is casting it that often, the elven insurgent squads may be affected, for example. That spell may ultimately be more trouble than it's worth.

[Petrocorus]

Notice how O-Chul is sleeping just fine in the rain? His Fortitude save modifier is so high, bad weather has to save against him for nonlethal damage!


Don't you know?
O-Chul don't get wet, water get O-chuled.

[comicshorse]

Posted by Name-Here

The ritual thing doesn't really lead itself to "he thinks things and magic happens." While the Teleporting of V and O-chul was done in a moment of incredible stress not just done off hand just by thinking it.

True or it could mean the MiTD is getting better at using its powers ( even if its still using them subconciously)

[Sequinox]

If that was a transition, my good sir Giant, it was a very clever one.

[Draconi Redfir]

why do pepole keep thinking the MitD caused the rain? it CAN rain without magic ya'know.and it looks like its been raining for quite awhile before MitD said those words.

[Petrocorus]

You, you... you mean O-Chul is Chuck Norris? :smallbiggrin:

Chuck Norris is O-Chul's PC in Real Life.

More seriously, i think there are thing i don't get due to the language border.

"Obscure plot minutiae, in your face", for example.

The "drawing board" thing also.

Can someone explain me those?

[Draconi Redfir]

i can explain the drawing board thing i think.

When people (often in TV shows) have a plan that doesn’t work, they will often say "well, back to the drawing board!". The "drawing board" being something like a chalkboard on which people can draw new plans.


hope that helped XD

[Drolyt]

It's the plot to "The Meloncholy of Harahui Suzumiya". Not that there's anythign wrong with that. I love Suzumiya I just don't think Rich would be so transparent as to lift MitD's powers from there.
Never seen that, isn't that an anime or something? I mean, you do realize it's entirely possible the Giant knows as much about Suzumiya as I do?

The ritual thing doesn't really lead itself to "he thinks things and magic happens." While the Teleporting of V and O-chul was done in a moment of incredible stress not just done off hand just by thinking it.

Overall I say it's infinitely more likely that the rains we saw are nothing more than what you always get when you combine the ocean and a warm environment.
Nobodies saying that the rain was definitely caused by the MitD (at least no one sane), but it is a plausible theory that you can't just shoot down.

why do pepole keep thinking the MitD caused the rain? it CAN rain without magic ya'know.and it looks like its been raining for quite awhile before MitD said those words.
Again, to my knowledge no one is saying that as a definite thing, it's just a theory, and a somewhat likely one in my opinion.

[Drolyt]

Chuck Norris is O-Chul's PC in Real Life.

More seriously, i think there are thing i don't get due to the language border.

"Obscure plot minutiae, in your face", for example.

The "drawing board" thing also.

Can someone explain me those?

The drawing board actually refers to the board people used to draw up blueprints before CAD software was invented. You drew up your plans for something like a building, or a circuit-board, or pretty much anything on a drawing board. Since CAD software is so ubiquitous most people who speak English as their native language don't know the origin of that phrase either. A cutting board on the other hand is used for making food. The MitD got them confused.

Obscure plot minutiae is hard to explain, essentially the demon roach is saying something like "ha ha, due to this obscure plot detail you didn't know about you can't see your friend" or something. That's not quite right, I don't know how to explain it. Minutiae means a minor or incidental detail if that helps.

[Vectner]

MitD is so sweet. I wondered how Tsukiko would react when she found out O'Chul was the person he was looking for.

[Drolyt]

MitD is so sweet. I wondered how Tsukiko would react when she found out O'Chul was the person he was looking for.

I kind of saw Tsukiko's reaction coming. I wonder, does Tsukiko know what the MitD is? The only character that definitely knows is Redcloak, although the MitD mentions that Xykon does too. I wonder if O-Chul found anything out when he talked to the Azurite scholars.

[fwiffo]

My theory is that MITD lit a little campfire under that umbrella and then did a naked rain dance around the campfire. It is just that since he is protected by the magic darkness, nobody saw anything.

I say there is no other possible explanation. That is how it happened, and till someone proves otherwise, I am sticking with that theory! Heck, I am going to be sticking with that even *after* someone proves otherwise, just because!

[silvadel]

Lien does have an option for getting out of the rain. She has the earring that lets her stay under water. Might leave her waterlogged but at least she can sleep.

Tsukiko now realizes that she is missing the divine part of the ritual. I wonder how long it will take her to figure out that Redcloak has the divine half.

Tsu: Hey Wrong-eye, I have been looking at this ritual-here and it appears you have kept half of it for yourself. Xykon wants you to show me how to do it.

RC: Ok -- just try this cloak on for a second and all will be revealed to you.

Tsu: (Trying on cloak) ARRRRRGGGHHH SSSSSSSSSssss....

RC: (Flicking the ash off the cloak then putting it back on) Stupid Humans.

[Drolyt]

Tsu: Hey Wrong-eye, I have been looking at this ritual-here and it appears you have kept half of it for yourself. Xykon wants you to show me how to do it.

RC: Ok -- just try this cloak on for a second and all will be revealed to you.

Tsu: (Trying on cloak) ARRRRRGGGHHH SSSSSSSSSssss....

RC: (Flicking the ash off the cloak then putting it back on) Stupid Humans.

Do we have any definitive information on what level Redcloak is? Like has he cast any high-level spells before?

[Kish]

You, you... you mean O-Chul is Chuck Norris? :smallbiggrin:
One day, someone will annoy O-Chul with a Chuck Norris joke.

On that day, Chuck Norris will suddenly die. So will everyone who has ever made a Chuck Norris joke, or (with the exception of O-Chul himself, of course) is even aware that Chuck Norris once existed. As I fall into the last category, I hope it's not soon.

[doodthedud]

Obscure plot minutiae is hard to explain, essentially the demon roach is saying something like "ha ha, due to this obscure plot detail you didn't know about you can't see your friend" or something. That's not quite right, I don't know how to explain it. Minutiae means a minor or incidental detail if that helps.

This is a pretty accurate description.

[JonestheSpy]

That better be high tide, or O-Chul is gonna drown by morning :smalleek:.



Oh it's high tide - that's as near as e waves dare get to O-Chul. Normally the island is three feet below sea level.

[Mordokai]

Once Tsukiko manages to understand the Gate ritual, Xykon will no longer need Redcloak. Gobbotopia could very well become Wightotopia very soon.

You know... I'm gonna laugh this hard it that really happens, for various reasons that shall not be revealed just yet.

[Fish]

Interesting. The MITD was able to procure tacos in the middle of nowhere in SOD (and even commented on it) ...always gets fed his favorite food (stew), doesn't understand why wishing for something isn't enough to make it happen, and ...now, when he expresses a hope that it's raining where O-Chul is --and we see it is raining-- people deny the MITD had anything to do with it.

It's possible that it's unrelated. But I don't call that a high-percentage bet.

If the MITD has a spell-like ability, maybe he's wasting it every day on wishing for stew.

[Optimystik]

Interesting. The MITD was able to procure tacos in the middle of nowhere in SOD (and even commented on it)

I think he sent the zombies to go get him some, though that raises its own questions.

[Drolyt]

Interesting. The MITD was able to procure tacos in the middle of nowhere in SOD (and even commented on it) ...always gets fed his favorite food (stew), doesn't understand why wishing for something isn't enough to make it happen, and ...now, when he expresses a hope that it's raining where O-Chul is --and we see it is raining-- people deny the MITD had anything to do with it.

It's possible that it's unrelated. But I don't call that a high-percentage bet.

If the MITD has a spell-like ability, maybe he's wasting it every day on wishing for stew.

The "doesn't understand why why wishing for something won't make it happen" bit almost screams out that the MitD has wish as a spell-like ability. Of course we fans might be grasping at straws, but it just makes so much sense.

[BatRobin]

I lol'd at the 'was he ever even drawn?' line. MitD...was never drawn. Ahhaha.

[Drolyt]

I think he sent the zombies to go get him some, though that raises its own questions.

Oddly enough, it actually makes more sense to say he just wished the tacos into existence. I mean, where the hell would they find a restaurant out there? Who the hell serves tacos to zombies? It could have just been a throwaway gag, but it does hint at the MitD powers.

[DabblerWizard]

I'm glad the MITD considers OChul a friend. I hope they can be useful to each other.

[Gift Jeraff]

Awesome! :roach:, Xykon (sorta), Mr. Stiffly, Monster-san, and Bootie all in one strip? I think there's only one other page (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0541.html) capable of holding that much awesome. :smallcool:
But I'm guessing we're going back to the OOTS now or staying in Azure City for a few more strips; Rich said O-Chul probably won't get much screen time in this book, plus 2 chapters not focusing on any OOTSer would be kinda weird (unless it's just for a few strips).


Do we have any definitive information on what level Redcloak is? Like has he cast any high-level spells before?

I always took Belkar's comment in #579 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0579.html) as Rich's way of saying "Redcloak is 17th~20th level". The Class and Geekery Thread has him listed as at least 15th level based on stuff.

[Anterean]

Do we have any definitive information on what level Redcloak is? Like has he cast any high-level spells before?

As far as I know we have never seen him cast anything higher than 8'th level spell, an extended summon monster VII (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html). Ofcourse he need to be level 15+ to pull that off.

[Kumo]

why do pepole keep thinking the MitD caused the rain? it CAN rain without magic ya'know.and it looks like its been raining for quite awhile before MitD said those words.

Azure Wrath's Law of forums physics: Any opinion placed at the first post in a thread, no matter how ridiculous, outlandish or stupid will be argued for at least half of that thread.

[Petrocorus]

I'm glad the MITD considers OChul a friend. I hope they can be useful to each other.

I think O-Chul has already been quite useful to MitD, he taught him to think by himself, and MitD saves O-Chul's life (and V's one).



PS: Thanks all for the explanations.

[Optimystik]

[spoiler]Oddly enough, it actually makes more sense to say he just wished the tacos into existence. I mean, where the hell would they find a restaurant out there? Who the hell serves tacos to zombies? It could have just been a throwaway gag, but it does hint at the MitD powers.

I don't know. Where does one buy a Teevo? Where were they getting tacos before? And if he did wish the tacos into existence, why was he still awake?

[Drolyt]

I don't know. Where does one buy a Teevo? Where were they getting tacos before? And if he did wish the tacos into existence, why was he still awake?

Like I said, it could have been a throwaway gag. It's hard to tell with this comic.

Originally Posted by Gicko View Post
why do pepole keep thinking the MitD caused the rain? it CAN rain without magic ya'know.and it looks like its been raining for quite awhile before MitD said those words.
Why does that theory upset you so is what I want to know. Aren't people allowed to have differing opinions?

[jpreem]

I admit it, I daaaaaawwww'd at the last two panels.

Goddamn you Giant, making me all fuzzy about a black splodge under an umbrella and a bald man :smallwink:

Keep em coming. PLEEEEEASE!!!!! (I know, I know, but I can dream can't I).

Jep you captured my sentiment. Weird to get wet eyed for a blob of darkness and a bald fellow. The last two panels were totally aawwwwwwwwww

[Snake-Aes]

Why does that theory upset you so is what I want to know. Aren't people allowed to have differing opinions?

It's more that assuming :mitd: caused the rain violates common sense.
In the ocean, there is rain.
In the equatorial zone, there is rain.
When the weather chills, there is rain.
O-Chul was sleeping in the middle of the ocean near the equator. It's obvious there would be rain. Assuming that it only rained because :mitd: wanted so goes against the nature.
AND! the only evidence we have of :mitd: spellcasting is the one where it's eyes were glowing. :mitd:'s eyes did not glow on #709.

It's like Guy saying "I wish there was water in the water cooler", seeing someone replace the gallon and assume that he only showed up to replace the gallon because Guy wished so. Regardless the fact such gallons are routinelly replaced multiple times per day.

[doodthedud]

Why does that theory upset you so is what I want to know. Aren't people allowed to have differing opinions?

Because it's completely ridiculous. See signature.

[veti]

Why "cutting board"?

I know what a drawing board is, and I know what going back to it means. But why would the MitD say "cutting board"?

Okay, so the MitD is not very well read and is occasionally given to malapropisms. But to me, that doesn't look random. I think there's a reason, and I think it may well be a clue to the MitD's species.

[Drolyt]

It's more that assuming :mitd: caused the rain violates common sense.
In the ocean, there is rain.
In the equatorial zone, there is rain.
When the weather chills, there is rain.
O-Chul was sleeping in the middle of the ocean near the equator. It's obvious there would be rain. Assuming that it only rained because :mitd: wanted so goes against the nature.
AND! the only evidence we have of :mitd: spellcasting is the one where it's eyes were glowing. :mitd:'s eyes did not glow on #709.

It's like Guy saying "I wish there was water in the water cooler", seeing someone replace the gallon and assume that he only showed up to replace the gallon because Guy wished so. Regardless the fact such gallons are routinelly replaced multiple times per day.

If this were the real world, yes it would be ridiculous, even if weather control were a known power of MitD. However, this is fiction, and nothing happens without a reason. It's possible that the reason was to cutaway to Lien and O-Chul, or simply to show O-Chul with rain, but the most obvious reason to me seems to be to show the MitD controlling the weather. I admit I might be wrong.

Because it's completely ridiculous. See signature.
Nothing happens in fiction without a reason. Random numbers are one thing, but that scene had a purpose. I don't think it is all that ridiculous myself.

[doodthedud]

Nothing happens in fiction without a reason. Random numbers are one thing, but that scene had a purpose. I don't think it is all that ridiculous myself.

Of course it had a purpose, it was heart-warming and shows that MitD remembers O-Chul, and fondly. And opposes those he normally lets make decisions for him, defending O-Chul and caring about him.

[veti]

Maybe rather than controlling O'Chul's weather, he's subconsciously divining it. That is, he hopes the rain is helping O'Chul sleep because it is, rather than vice-versa.

Just a thought. Assumes a magical or psionic power for the MitD, makes the rain not-just-coincidence, but doesn't require him to be controlling distant and arbitrary parts of the world without even knowing where they are.

Of course, it would also imply that the MitD's subconscious is epic-level. Which I've never doubted...

[Elfey]

Is the RAIN morally justified by wetting O-Chul and Lien?

Only because O-Chul finds it pleasing.

[Kumo]

If this were the real world, yes it would be ridiculous, even if weather control were a known power of MitD. However, this is fiction, and nothing happens without a reason. It's possible that the reason was to cutaway to Lien and O-Chul, or simply to show O-Chul with rain, but the most obvious reason to me seems to be to show the MitD controlling the weather. I admit I might be wrong.

Nothing happens in fiction without a reason. Random numbers are one thing, but that scene had a purpose. I don't think it is all that ridiculous myself.

...you're joking, right?! All sorts of crap happens in fiction without a reason.

[Drolyt]

...you're joking, right?! All sorts of crap happens in fiction without a reason.

Rather, no, nothing does. You might not know the reason, but no writer/author/artist just makes up scenes without a reason, it's too much ****ing work. It could be subtle one. Maybe the purpose of this scene was to show that the MitD really cares and is worried about O-Chul and that somewhere in the world O-Chul is resting peacefully. It's also possible that this scene was meant to show that the MitD has powers that haven't been confirmed yet. Maybe the Giant realized he had left a little corner in the bottom right of his comic blank and had to come up with something. But there was a reason.

[Dark_Tangente]

Hi everyone,

I haven't read the whole discussion about MitD making rain or not but...

In fact at the first time I thought it was just a coincidence but now I think it completely makes sense to imagine that MitD is responsible for the rain.
Since we know MitD is a spellcaster (who cannot really control his abilities), that he is powerful and that he knows O'Chul likes rain, well... we can at least wonder if he (MitD) hasn't actually caused the rain.

[Kumo]

Rather, no, nothing does. You might not know the reason, but no writer/author/artist just makes up scenes without a reason, it's too much ****ing work. It could be subtle one. Maybe the purpose of this scene was to show that the MitD really cares and is worried about O-Chul and that somewhere in the world O-Chul is resting peacefully. It's also possible that this scene was meant to show that the MitD has powers that haven't been confirmed yet. Maybe the Giant realized he had left a little corner in the bottom right of his comic blank and had to come up with something. But there was a reason.

Ok, first? that last one isn't even close to a likely reason and you KNOW it.

Second, i'm sorry i didn't make this clear, but i meant an internal reason. In-story, it's just rain. Externally, it's both a tangent to O'Chul, a way to make people go 'awwww' and to show Mitd still cares... though admittedly we knew that one already.

We've known he's had unknown powers all story long, and it has been repeated over and over, occasionally by showing a new power, such as when he stomped the ground when Haley and Belkar were heading back towards Azure City. I don't think this is one of those, though.

:xykon: "And you... Well, we all know how powerful you are."

[Saph]

Okay, getting away from the rain argument, something entertaining for those who haven't yet noticed it: look at the sign on Tsukiko's door. You can see it in panel 2 and panel 10.

I guess that's a warning to those hobgoblins who didn't get the message from all the wights hanging around. :smallbiggrin:

[deworde]

Right. I accepted the killing, the necrophilia, the whole teenage emo Twilighty thing, but this blantant disregard for logic SHALL NOT STAND. Tsusiko must be burned as a heretic!

[natural_one]

That last panel made me smile a little. It's nice to see O-Chul finally getting a break. 12 gods knows he deserves it.

[Black]

Cute :smalltongue:

[Drolyt]

Ok, first? that last one isn't even close to a likely reason and you KNOW it.

Second, i'm sorry i didn't make this clear, but i meant an internal reason. In-story, it's just rain. Externally, it's both a tangent to O'Chul, a way to make people go 'awwww' and to show Mitd still cares... though admittedly we knew that one already.

We've known he's had unknown powers all story long, and it has been repeated over and over, occasionally by showing a new power, such as when he stomped the ground when Haley and Belkar were heading back towards Azure City. I don't think this is one of those, though.

:xykon: "And you... Well, we all know how powerful you are."

Well, when I said everything in fiction has a reason I didn't mean an internal one, I meant that the Giant had a reason for making that scene. The last one in my list was obviously a joke, of course the Giant didn't just suddenly realize one of the panels was blank and decide to show O-Chul sleeping in the rain. At any rate I can accept that it is possible that it was just a aww moment with the MitD and O-Chul, but I still think that it is at least possible that the MitD caused the rain. Either way it's not a big deal. My issue is more that there are people who seem to take offense to that possibility and make posts like "why is everyone saying that the MitD made it rain, what n00bs". There's no need for that. If someone wants to make a post saying that they disagree with that theory that's one thing, but a post to the effect of "why does anyone believe that" is condescending and rude.

[Gilby]

I'd almost like to see MITD tick off Xykon. Might be an interesting encounter

[amanojaku]

Tsuki said that the're tried scrying on ochul to bring him back. I wondered if xykon wouldn't be MORE interested in scrying on V, or at least the spliced elf, who burst into his sanctuary and came close to offing him.

Maybe that's where X was, trying to get the dirt on his androgynous assassin wanna-be...

[Dinocarl]

2 good belly laughs, both roach inspired. Tsukio had some good lines too, VERY funny strip!

:smallbiggrin:

[Agi Hammerthief]

Tsuki said that the're tried scrying on ochul to bring him back. I wondered if xykon wouldn't be MORE interested in scrying on V, or at least the spliced elf, who burst into his sanctuary and came close to offing him.

Maybe that's where X was, trying to get the dirt on his androgynous assassin wanna-be...
would he be familiar enough with normal-V to scry on him/her?
DarthV didn't look anything like normal-V (can't remember if V's name was mentioned at the incident)

[veti]

would he be familiar enough with normal-V to scry on him/her?
DarthV didn't look anything like normal-V (can't remember if V's name was mentioned at the incident)

No, V's name wasn't mentioned. Xykon did get a reasonably good look at normal-V after the soul splice ended...

But Xykon doesn't scry himself: he needs the Teevo. And even if he had scried V., I can't believe he'd risk going after her until his phylactery is back in safe hands - he's not a scry-and-die type. So that doesn't explain his absence anyway.

[Gilby]

regarding Xykon wanting to scry on the elf that almost offed him...

I address Xykons previous comments on real power. Xy is old and yes he cheated a bit by going lich but wasn't he already powerful??? I think He mocked V because V cheated for power. Xy had the xeriance, wisdom(to a limited point) and int. V lacked all 3 to include the power V gained. That is why Xy wasn't concerned with V

[Agi Hammerthief]

No, V's name wasn't mentioned. Xykon did get a reasonably good look at normal-V after the soul splice ended...

ah, I forgot that bit :smallredface: sticking his finger down someones throat for Meteor Shwuh should enable a good look

[silvadel]

Do we have any definitive information on what level Redcloak is? Like has he cast any high-level spells before?

He has cast 8th level spells that we know of...

As for the SSSSSS in ..

"Tsu: Hey Wrong-eye, I have been looking at this ritual-here and it appears you have kept half of it for yourself. Xykon wants you to show me how to do it.

RC: Ok -- just try this cloak on for a second and all will be revealed to you.

Tsu: (Trying on cloak) ARRRRRGGGHHH SSSSSSSSSssss....

RC: (Flicking the ash off the cloak then putting it back on) Stupid Humans."

That is the cloak disintigrating the human that is stupid enough to put on the cloak -- I would figure the cloak only works for goblinoids and has especially dire consequences should a HUMAN decide to try to don it.

[DeltaEmil]

And then Redcloak gets brutally dismembered by Xykon for hindering his plans, as Xykon orders Tsukiko to research the gate-controlling ritual for him. Doesn't matter what excuses or lies Redcloak tells him. He will ensure the safety and the well-being of Tsukiko, and raise her from dead by himself if necessary, or face the punishment laid out by the lich lord.
After the dismemberment, Redcloak will beg for death, but Xykon will make it slow and painful. And meanwhile, Gobbotopia will burn with all its inhabitant, as the only thing more funny than a bunch of goblinoids dancing on the graves of paladinsa are undead monsters dancing on the graves of goblinoids and paladins, while Redcloak watches powerless to do anything else.

Redcloak will do nothing that will anger Xykon. Getting rid of his more favored minion will only make sure that somebody will pay for it. And goblins are plentiful and make satisfying sounds when they die in pain to Xykon's ear.

If Redcloak ever wanted to get rid of Tsukiko and think he'd get away with it without any consequences for his people, he'd done it since long.

[Zea mays]

Spoilered for inane speculation

If Tsukiko is capable of performing the arcane part of the ritual, and Red Cloak were to learn of this... is it possible that despite all the bad blood between them, one day the Goblin and the Theurge will unite against the Lich?

Yeah, I'm reaching but...

Tsukiko's love for Xykon is based merely on her delusions. How long can she hang around Xykon before his real nature becomes (painfully) evident even to her? If he ever treats her the way he treats RC, (all it takes is one good temper tantrum) wouldn't her "love" quickly turn to loathing?

[Drolyt]

And then Redcloak gets brutally dismembered by Xykon for hindering his plans, as Xykon orders Tsukiko to research the gate-controlling ritual for him. Doesn't matter what excuses or lies Redcloak tells him. He will ensure the safety and the well-being of Tsukiko, and raise her from dead by himself if necessary, or face the punishment laid out by the lich lord.
After the dismemberment, Redcloak will beg for death, but Xykon will make it slow and painful. And meanwhile, Gobbotopia will burn with all its inhabitant, as the only thing more funny than a bunch of goblinoids dancing on the graves of paladinsa are undead monsters dancing on the graves of goblinoids and paladins, while Redcloak watches powerless to do anything else.

Redcloak will do nothing that will anger Xykon. Getting rid of his more favored minion will only make sure that somebody will pay for it. And goblins are plentiful and make satisfying sounds when they die in pain to Xykon's ear.

If Redcloak ever wanted to get rid of Tsukiko and think he'd get away with it without any consequences for his people, he'd done it since long.

The problem is that while Redcloak needs to grow a pair and is scared of Xykon, Xykon really can't afford to kill off Redcloak. Xykon needs that ritual. The only reason he has gotten away with treating Redcloak the way he has so far is that Redcloak has no balls and Xykon knows it. At any rate unless Xykon knows Clone he can't bring Tsukiko back.

[Blaznak]

Chuck Norris is O-Chul's PC in Real Life.

More seriously, i think there are thing i don't get due to the language border.

"Obscure plot minutiae, in your face", for example.

The "drawing board" thing also.

Can someone explain me those?

"Obscure Plot Minutiae, in your face": "In your face" is a mild insult. Kind of imagine a cream pie shoved in someone's face. In this case, the character is insulting "Obscure Plot Minutiae" (A tiny bit of trivia from the story) because something done much earlier is now explained.

Drawing Board: This refers to an old inventing term "Back to the Drawing Board". Inventors would work out their inventions on paper, that was laid on a special table, called a drawing board. If the invention did not work, they had to go back to the drawing board to rework their design. The drawing board now more or less means "a starting point".

Later!

[Kish]

The problem is that while Redcloak needs to grow a pair and is scared of Xykon, Xykon really can't afford to kill off Redcloak. Xykon needs that ritual.
Which any goblinoid cleric who puts on the Crimson Mantle will know.

Redcloak is indispensable to Xykon not because he alone can know the ritual, but because of his spinelessness. Xykon knows he has little chance of finding another high goblin priest as abjectly cowardly as Redcloak. If Redcloak ever really grew a spine, though, that usefulness would be at an end.

[martinkou]

but this blantant disregard for logic SHALL NOT STAND. Tsusiko must be burned as a heretic!

I wasn't expecting this kind of Spanish Inquisition...

[Selif]

Did anyone notice that for more than 10 strips in a row now, we haven't seen any of the titular characters? Not that I'm complaining, the story is great, as usual, just wondering if it's a new direction for the strip.

Frankly, I agree. I would like to get back to the main plot. However, I wonder if the scene on the island is just there to show irony. I mean, O-chul jsut sort of fell on Hinjo's head with Vaarsuvius, so how did he get on an island with Lein? I don't think that is in sync with the general character of the comic. Also, (I know this is going off on a tangent, but it's a relevent tangent) does anyone else wonder how long it will take for that small, dirt, island to erode away in the rain?

-Selif

[Kish]

Frankly, I agree. I would like to get back to the main plot. However, I wonder if the scene on the island is just there to show irony. I mean, O-chul jsut sort of fell on Hinjo's head with Vaarsuvius, so how did he get on an island with Lein?

Y'might want to reread the strips from when O-Chul fell on Hinjo's head to the end of Don't Split the Party.

I don't think that is in sync with the general character of the comic.

What, people complaining that the camera's not pointing at the group they want it to be pointing at? If "in sync with the general character of the comic" means "the way it's been for five hundred strips or more," yes, it certainly is.

Also, (I know this is going off on a tangent, but it's a relevent tangent) does anyone else wonder how long it will take for that small, dirt, island to erode away in the rain?
Long enough for Lien and O-Chul to have moved on the next morning and the island thus to have become irrelevant.

[Eldariel]

How so? The monster wanted her to try to scry on O-Chul, and she had already done it. Sounds to me like she did her best.

How she spoke of O-Chul and MitD's friendship was unforgivable.

[Kumo]

Well, when I said everything in fiction has a reason I didn't mean an internal one, I meant that the Giant had a reason for making that scene. The last one in my list was obviously a joke, of course the Giant didn't just suddenly realize one of the panels was blank and decide to show O-Chul sleeping in the rain. At any rate I can accept that it is possible that it was just a aww moment with the MitD and O-Chul, but I still think that it is at least possible that the MitD caused the rain. Either way it's not a big deal. My issue is more that there are people who seem to take offense to that possibility and make posts like "why is everyone saying that the MitD made it rain, what n00bs". There's no need for that. If someone wants to make a post saying that they disagree with that theory that's one thing, but a post to the effect of "why does anyone believe that" is condescending and rude.
I apologized and said 'i meant an internal reason' because i realized you meant an external reason.

Sure, it's possible Mitd caused the rain, just like it's possible Miko will come back.

It annoys me because i KNOW the reason a lot of people think it's the Mitd, and the fact that i can even accept the idea irritates the crap out of me :smallannoyed:

[Drolyt]

Which any goblinoid cleric who puts on the Crimson Mantle will know.

Redcloak is indispensable to Xykon not because he alone can know the ritual, but because of his spinelessness. Xykon knows he has little chance of finding another high goblin priest as abjectly cowardly as Redcloak. If Redcloak ever really grew a spine, though, that usefulness would be at an end.

No, because only Redcloak knows the ritual. It's also implied that you need to be really high level to use it, and the only high level divine spellcasters we actually know of are Redcloak, Durkon, and that druid chick. Also Redcloak is the voice of reason on the team and Xykon knows this. Fact is, Xykon needs Redcloak.

I apologized and said 'i meant an internal reason' because i realized you meant an external reason.

Sure, it's possible Mitd caused the rain, just like it's possible Miko will come back.

It annoys me because i KNOW the reason a lot of people think it's the Mitd, and the fact that i can even accept the idea irritates the crap out of me
I'm sorry if I sounded angry or something. Your post wasn't the one that offended me. We all just need to accept that we have different opinions. To be honest I'm giving the whole thing 50/50 odds. It does seem kind of ridiculous that the MitD could control the weather in a place whose location he doesn't even know. At the same time the comic seems to be hinting at the very possibility.

[Kish]

No, because only Redcloak knows the ritual.

And he learned it from...?

It's also implied that you need to be really high level to use it,

Where does this meme come from?

When Redcloak was originally planning to do the ritual in Start of Darkness, he couldn't cast sixth-level spells yet. Whether he was higher level than Jirix is now is questionable. Certainly he was no higher level than Tsukiko. It is not implied that you need to be "really high level" to cast the ritual; it is spelled out in black and white that you do not need to be really high level to cast it.

[Kumo]

No, because only Redcloak knows the ritual. It's also implied that you need to be really high level to use it, and the only high level divine spellcasters we actually know of are Redcloak, Durkon, and that druid chick. Also Redcloak is the voice of reason on the team and Xykon knows this. Fact is, Xykon needs Redcloak.

I'm sorry if I sounded angry or something. Your post wasn't the one that offended me. We all just need to accept that we have different opinions. To be honest I'm giving the whole thing 50/50 odds. It does seem kind of ridiculous that the MitD could control the weather in a place whose location he doesn't even know. At the same time the comic seems to be hinting at the very possibility.

I considered the idea once that the mitd has the unconscious ability to influence reality around him - particularly the luck and fortune of himself, his allies and his friends. It would explain some of Xykon and Redcloak's close calls, and it would also account for the rain. The teleportation is a bit harder to explain, which is why i didn't mention it, but ya know what they say: natural 20s work wonders.

[Drolyt]

And he learned it from...?
The Dark One himself when he put on the Crimson Mantle.

Where does this meme come from?

When Redcloak was originally planning to do the ritual in Start of Darkness, he couldn't cast sixth-level spells yet. Whether he was higher level than Jirix is now is questionable. Certainly he was no higher level than Tsukiko. It is not implied that you need to be "really high level" to cast the ritual; it is spelled out in black and white that you do not need to be really high level to cast it.

You might be right, let me just go get Start of Darkness... Okay, page 30 says they need a high-level arcane caster, no mention of divine or how high level... page 44 mentions "sufficiently powerful divine/arcane casters", whatever that means. So again, you might be right. As for what kind of spells he could cast in start of darkness, he did mention that he couldn't cast heal yet, but that makes no damn sense because you have to have CL 11 to create a phylactery. At any rate he used break enchantment suggesting he had access to 5th level spells at least. For a Mystic Theurge to cast 5th level spells they would need to be at least 12th level, I suppose it's reasonable for Tsukiko to be that strong. This is of course assuming that you only need to be that strong to use the ritual, and Redcloak not being able to cast heal notwithstanding we don't know that for sure.

[Kish]

The Dark One himself when he put on the Crimson Mantle.

And so, if Redcloak died with or without Xykon's assistance and Jirix put on the Crimson Mantle?


You might be right, let me just go get Start of Darkness... Okay, page 30 says they need a high-level arcane caster, no mention of divine or how high level... page 44 mentions "sufficiently powerful divine/arcane casters", whatever that means. So again, you might be right. As for what kind of spells he could cast in start of darkness, he did mention that he couldn't cast heal yet, but that makes no damn sense because you have to have CL 11 to create a phylactery. At any rate he used break enchantment suggesting he had access to 5th level spells at least. For a Mystic Theurge to cast 5th level spells they would need to be at least 12th level, I suppose it's reasonable for Tsukiko to be that strong. This is of course assuming that you only need to be that strong to use the ritual, and Redcloak not being able to cast heal notwithstanding we don't know that for sure.
Redcloak not being able to cast sixth-level spells when he was going to cast the ritual notwithstanding, we don't know you don't need to be able to cast sixth-level spells to cast the ritual? ...I give up.

[Kumo]

The Dark One himself when he put on the Crimson Mantle.


You might be right, let me just go get Start of Darkness... Okay, page 30 says they need a high-level arcane caster, no mention of divine or how high level... page 44 mentions "sufficiently powerful divine/arcane casters", whatever that means. So again, you might be right. As for what kind of spells he could cast in start of darkness, he did mention that he couldn't cast heal yet, but that makes no damn sense because you have to have CL 11 to create a phylactery. At any rate he used break enchantment suggesting he had access to 5th level spells at least. For a Mystic Theurge to cast 5th level spells they would need to be at least 12th level, I suppose it's reasonable for Tsukiko to be that strong. This is of course assuming that you only need to be that strong to use the ritual, and Redcloak not being able to cast heal notwithstanding we don't know that for sure.

Redcloak does say they need a 'powerful divine caster - [Redcloak] - and a powerful arcane caster.' "Powerful" is open to interpretation, of course, but still...

[SteveMB]

Once Tsukiko manages to understand the Gate ritual, Xykon will no longer need Redcloak. Gobbotopia could very well become Wightotopia very soon.

Xykon gave Tsukiko the arcane half, not the divine half (which is what she'd need to know if Xykon wanted her to replace Redcloak, or even serve as a backup for him). He wants her to figure it out and explain it to him (and isn't it typical of ol' lazybones to shift as much of the work as possible to somebody else? :smalltongue: ).

He didn't even mention that there was anything to the spell besides what he gave her, which suggests that he isn't planning to show her the divine half later, either.

[Timberboar]

Why is everyone assuming MITD knows its raining where Ochul is?

Are we forgetting

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0550.html

?


The MITD knows rain helps him sleep, so he's wishing that wherever his friend might be, rain is helping him sleep.

[Petrocorus]

Can we please have spoilers for all the SoD material.

[Doug Lampert]

The problem is that while Redcloak needs to grow a pair and is scared of Xykon, Xykon really can't afford to kill off Redcloak. Xykon needs that ritual. The only reason he has gotten away with treating Redcloak the way he has so far is that Redcloak has no balls and Xykon knows it. At any rate unless Xykon knows Clone he can't bring Tsukiko back.

Xykon needs RC, he needs 0.000 of the OTHER 20,000+ goblinoids convienently gathered in ONE nice little target. None of them, they're all crap, a distraction, or potential undead. Every one. He's not planning to take ANY of them to the next gate, and that's what he cares about.

RC defies Xykon about ANYTHING Xykon cares about, and Xykon wastes a few minutes and some slots and KILLS DEAD 8,000 or so goblinoids, and then points out that he can DO IT AGAIN and STILL have hostages left to continue to use against RC.

RC is not going to defy Xykon and claim "You need me more than I need you." They've had that conversation, and RC is the b*tch while Xykon is the butch for a reason.

If RC kills T to defy X, X won't even CONSIDER bringing back T himself, he'll tell RC, "100 goblins die for every round she stays dead, 10 minute casting time, if you start NOW you can keep the death toll from your little stunt down to ONLY 10,000 goblins."

DougL

[Degnared]

If RC kills T to defy X, X won't even CONSIDER bringing back T himself, he'll tell RC, "100 goblins die for every round she stays dead, 10 minute casting time, if you start NOW you can keep the death toll from your little stunt down to ONLY 10,000 goblins."

And when he's finished Xykon points out that the time between her death and Xykon's return count too.

[RoninAngel]

Poor Monster in the Darkness [cries single tear/]:smallfrown:

[elonin]

Giant, Great comic. Though when I first went to that page I thought I went to that earlier comic by mistake. That's what I get for coming here when 1/2 asleep.

Have I been missing my spot checks before or have Tsukiko's eyes always been different colors?

Nice turn about with team evil ordering MiTD about just like they claim the paladins do. And same with the sermonizing, or is that just redcloak and Tsukiko?

Can we narrow down MiTD to being a creature that is able to grant wishes as a SLA? It's possible if that is true that he just got enough hit dice to do that (likely gained xp from being in the room each time O-chul was defeated).

[zimmerwald1915]

Nice turn about with team evil ordering MiTD about just like they claim the paladins do. And same with the sermonizing, or is that just redcloak and Tsukiko?
Well, they do both have cleric levels :smallsigh:

[doodthedud]

Giant, Great comic. Though when I first went to that page I thought I went to that earlier comic by mistake. That's what I get for coming here when 1/2 asleep.

Have I been missing my spot checks before or have Tsukiko's eyes always been different colors?

Nice turn about with team evil ordering MiTD about just like they claim the paladins do. And same with the sermonizing, or is that just redcloak and Tsukiko?

Can we narrow down MiTD to being a creature that is able to grant wishes as a SLA? It's possible if that is true that he just got enough hit dice to do that (likely gained xp from being in the room each time O-chul was defeated).

They've always been different

[ThreadKiller]

<3 O-Chul and MitD! Also, gotta love the last panel :smallsmile:

Awesome strip, Rich!

[The_Weirdo]

I wasn't expecting this kind of Spanish Inquisition...

>.>

<.<

Ah, screw it.

NNNNNNNNNNNNNOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!

[Komitadji]

I do loves me some MitD. :smile:

[whitelaughter]

The real moral outrage is O-Chul's rain dependency keeping Lien from getting any rest.

A pair of Paladins alone in the middle of nowhere? Lien's on guard. O'chul will take the next shift, and then they'll continue travelling.

[Orodruin]

I still think MiTD is just that uber epic level enough to scry (or whatever ability you might call it) O-Chul.

The language is a bit ambiguous, it seems to say he knows it is raining wherever O-Chul is, and hopes that it is helping O-Chul sleep.

[Zxo]

I wonder if MitD will influence Tsukiko. From Team Evil, she is the only one willing to talk to him and doesn't treat him that badly. And MitD has some words of wisdom to offer, even if she's ignoring them for now.

[Warbanner]

I don't know why some people are so convinced that MitD caused the rain. There is such a thing as normal rain, after all.

Given his sudden comment about rain and the way he apparently guessed out of nowhere that Tsukiko had only half of the spell in #700 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html), it would seem far more likely that he has some sort of paranormal perception and is unconsciously scrying O-Chul himself.


What you said. It seemed to me the whole strip was one huge "here's another MitD hint!". He can EPIC LEVEL SCRY as a natural ability. Wow. And somehow doesn't even know that he can.

FWIW I'm fairly sure that whatever MitD is, it's an infant. As it, it was found within days of being born. And it has such a long lifespan that it's still essentially a newborn. That explains its total lack of understanding of its own abilities.

[Snake-Aes]

If this were the real world, yes it would be ridiculous, even if weather control were a known power of MitD. However, this is fiction, and nothing happens without a reason. It's possible that the reason was to cutaway to Lien and O-Chul, or simply to show O-Chul with rain, but the most obvious reason to me seems to be to show the MitD controlling the weather. I admit I might be wrong.

Nothing happens in fiction without a reason. Random numbers are one thing, but that scene had a purpose. I don't think it is all that ridiculous myself.

Yes, nothing happens without reason in fiction.
What happened there was the Giant showing us :mitd: remembering O-Chul fondly and commenting on how O-Chul likes the rain. Then came the comic's final pun by showing us that :mitd:'s memory did not fail it. O-Chul is there sleeping soundly in the middle of the rain...much to Lien's dismay.

We seeing O-Chul sleeping in the rain was the punchline for :mitd:'s final comment. Not the rain itself.

[Scarlet Knight]

Redcloak is indispensable to Xykon not because he alone can know the ritual, but because of his spinelessness. Xykon knows he has little chance of finding another high goblin priest as abjectly cowardly as Redcloak. If Redcloak ever really grew a spine, though, that usefulness would be at an end.

:xykon: "Cute. Did you actually grow a spine there, Redcloak?"

:redcloak: "Perhaps I just got hit with a piece of yours when you exploded, sir."

[Drolyt]

And so, if Redcloak died with or without Xykon's assistance and Jirix put on the Crimson Mantle?
That depends. If Redcloak dies at Xykon's hands I don't see Jirix helping Xykon, especially once he learns the truth.

Redcloak not being able to cast sixth-level spells when he was going to cast the ritual notwithstanding, we don't know you don't need to be able to cast sixth-level spells to cast the ritual? ...I give up.

Maybe he was planning on gaining a few levels, who knows. Besides that there's the problem that he shouldn't be able to craft a phylactery if he isn't high enough level to cast heal. Fact is Redcloak is a bitch because he has no balls. It's already been shown that Xykon respects those who do have balls, like Roy. Earlier in SoD Redcloak had more of a dual partnership with Xykon, but Xykon caught on to the fact that Redcloak had no balls and started treating him accordingly. Remember that he didn't even try to stop Right Eye. In case I haven't made it clear enough, Redcloak has no balls, and that's the only reason Xykon treats him the way he does.

[Doug Lampert]

And when he's finished Xykon points out that the time between her death and Xykon's return count too.

That doesn't do anything useful for the message.

But what if he kept killing goblins after Tsukiko was back, "not noticing" that she's healthy. And loudly insist to Red Cloak (in Tsukiko's hearing) that he won't believe it till She comes over and tells him she's alive. And that she'd best teleport over to prove she's not just an animated body.

What a fun and entertaining "lesson" for "Red Cloak with a spine". He gets to ressurect his worst enemy, and then beg her to pretty pretty please, please go tell ask Xykon to stop killing all my friends.

Imagine what new lessons in groveling subservience "Red Cloak with a spine" can learn as he tries to convince someone he's just cost a level and tried to murder that she should help him save a bunch of living creatures, when she hates the living.

For added fun, after Xykon finally decides to "notice" that Tsukiko is back, he can just leave the cloud-kills and summoned monsters going, and let Red Cloak TRY to dispell them if he wants to stop them before the duration expires. The dispell checks against an epic caster should add to the feelings of failure and futility.

To summarize, if "Red Cloak with a spine" would kill Tsukiko for the insult and to eliminate a potential resource of Xykon's, then what we really need is "Red Cloak with a brain." Defying Xykon in SMALL ways is bat**** insane.

[factotum]

That depends. If Redcloak dies at Xykon's hands I don't see Jirix helping Xykon, especially once he learns the truth.


Xykon: "Jirix, I just killed Redcloak because he wouldn't help me with this little project. Now, I'm sure you'll help me, won't you? It's just that I'm pretty sure the only goblinoids in Gobbotopia who won't help me are the dead ones...if you get my meaning."

Jirix: :smalleek: "Sure, Xykon, what was it you needed me to do?"

[Morithias]

Xykon: "Jirix, I just killed Redcloak because he wouldn't help me with this little project. Now, I'm sure you'll help me, won't you? It's just that I'm pretty sure the only goblinoids in Gobbotopia who won't help me are the dead ones...if you get my meaning."

Jirix: :smalleek: "Sure, Xykon, what was it you needed me to do?"

Don't larger characters get bonuses on intimidate checks on creatures smaller than them? You know, medium human lich gets +4 against small hobgoblin? Plus then there's the whole 'circumstance' bonus of him you know, being an Epic lich that is at least a CR 23 encounter.

I'm pretty sure Jirix would do whatever he was asked. He wouldn't LIKE it, but when your life is on the line a lot of the time it's not about what you like.

I mean hell the fact that he was sent to 'the dark ones army' shows that Rich is clearly not using standard Dnd afterlife system. In the standards he would've been sent to the Abyss or Baator, you know. Soul for fuel.

So it's basically sit in the army and pray the 'good' guys don't win. Or try to do what he can in the living while keeping an batcrazy lich happy.

[Kish]

small hobgoblin

Even in by-the-book D&D, where goblins are Small, hobgoblins are Medium.

[Nate the Snake]

+1 to "Awesome comic." :smallcool:

+1 to "D'awww, last two panels." :smallsmile:

+1 to "MitD didn't cause the rain." MitD causing the rain ruins the d'awww moment.

[Drolyt]

That doesn't do anything useful for the message.

But what if he kept killing goblins after Tsukiko was back, "not noticing" that she's healthy. And loudly insist to Red Cloak (in Tsukiko's hearing) that he won't believe it till She comes over and tells him she's alive. And that she'd best teleport over to prove she's not just an animated body.

What a fun and entertaining "lesson" for "Red Cloak with a spine". He gets to ressurect his worst enemy, and then beg her to pretty pretty please, please go tell ask Xykon to stop killing all my friends.

Imagine what new lessons in groveling subservience "Red Cloak with a spine" can learn as he tries to convince someone he's just cost a level and tried to murder that she should help him save a bunch of living creatures, when she hates the living.

For added fun, after Xykon finally decides to "notice" that Tsukiko is back, he can just leave the cloud-kills and summoned monsters going, and let Red Cloak TRY to dispell them if he wants to stop them before the duration expires. The dispell checks against an epic caster should add to the feelings of failure and futility.

To summarize, if "Red Cloak with a spine" would kill Tsukiko for the insult and to eliminate a potential resource of Xykon's, then what we really need is "Red Cloak with a brain." Defying Xykon in SMALL ways is bat**** insane.

I guess this depends on how much of a spine Redcloak grew. The whole point of Redcloaks mission was to provide a place in the world for the goblin people. If Xykon threatens to kill all the goblins in Gobotopia, Redcloak can threaten to not help him with the ritual. If Redcloak had already killed the only other divine spellcaster on Xykon's side, what could Xykon do about it? Sure he could go ahead and destroy Gobotopia, but not without destroying his chances of ever controlling the gates.

[whitelaughter]

RC: Ok -- just try this cloak on for a second and all will be revealed to you.

Tsu: (Trying on cloak) ARRRRRGGGHHH SSSSSSSSSssss....

RC: (Flicking the ash off the cloak then putting it back on) Stupid Humans."

That is the cloak disintigrating the human that is stupid enough to put on the cloak -- I would figure the cloak only works for goblinoids and has especially dire consequences should a HUMAN decide to try to don it.

If this is the case - then Redcloak has a "fry Xykon" cloak as well.

Redcloak's smart enough to know when he's caught a tiger by the tail (although, not, it seems, to understand the concept of sunk resources). If he pulls this stunt on Tsukiko, he'll also use it Xkyon. As that would short cut the storyline, I'm guessing that either (i) the cloak doesn't do that or (ii) Redcloak doesn't dare.

[BillyJimBoBob]

My personal take on the "Xykon would care if Redcloak killed Tsukiko" debate: He would not. Remember when Redcloak cast a blade barrier keeping Tsukiko from getting away from the element golums? Xykon's reaction was to laugh at her and reminded her that they were the bad guys and that she'd better learn to hold her own. If she dies due to losing a "top minion" fight with Redcloak, he won't weep a single bony tear. He does not need her, he has at least one Divine caster, and he provides the Arcane casting himself.

Tsukiko is as valuable as the spare tire in your trunk - Completely useless dead weight you haul around for the life of the car on the off chance that you'll need it someday. When and if it becomes needed, you're happy. Otherwise you never even think about it.

[Kish]

I guess this depends on how much of a spine Redcloak grew. The whole point of Redcloaks mission was to provide a place in the world for the goblin people. If Xykon threatens to kill all the goblins in Gobotopia, Redcloak can threaten to not help him with the ritual. If Redcloak had already killed the only other divine spellcaster on Xykon's side, what could Xykon do about it?
Kill Redcloak and bully any hobgoblin cleric into putting on the cloak and helping him with the ritual. Unless you're theorizing that every single hobgoblin cleric would choose to die horribly rather than help Xykon after Xykon killed Redcloak (not viable), or that the Dark One would suddenly get offended at Redcloak's death (and not at Redcloak trying to balk Xykon) (not viable either). And suppose Gobbotopia did, somehow, collectively decide that death was better than helping Xykon?

For Xykon, after he'd killed them all, it would be back to the world-conquering drawing board. For Redcloak and then every goblinoid there, it would be All Over.

[DeltaEmil]

My personal take on the "Xykon would care if Redcloak killed Tsukiko" debate: He would not. Remember when Redcloak cast a blade barrier keeping Tsukiko from getting away from the element golums? Xykon's reaction was to laugh at her and reminded her that they were the bad guys and that she'd better learn to hold her own. If she dies due to losing a "top minion" fight with Redcloak, he won't weep a single bony tear. He does not need her, he has at least one Divine caster, and he provides the Arcane casting himself.

Tsukiko is as valuable as the spare tire in your trunk - Completely useless dead weight you haul around for the life of the car on the off chance that you'll need it someday. When and if it becomes needed, you're happy. Otherwise you never even think about it.For now, Tsukiko is more important than Redcloak because she's been ordered to look at the ritual. If Redcloak even thinks about disturbing Tsukiko, he'll pay dearly.

[silvadel]

If this is the case - then Redcloak has a "fry Xykon" cloak as well.

Redcloak's smart enough to know when he's caught a tiger by the tail (although, not, it seems, to understand the concept of sunk resources). If he pulls this stunt on Tsukiko, he'll also use it Xkyon. As that would short cut the storyline, I'm guessing that either (i) the cloak doesn't do that or (ii) Redcloak doesn't dare.

There is definitely some aspect of the cloak that is detremental to humans otherwise....

The paladins would be grabbing the cloak for disposal whenever they kill "redcloak" like they have done several times in the past in SoD. Since they just leave it there -- it shows they can't just move the thing.

Oh and Xykon has enough background on how things go to know NOT to don the cloak. Tsukiko is naive enough to do it.

Oh and another point -- if you were to be put into a direct communication with the god of the goblins and you were a human, do you really think the dark one would just tell you the ritual then let you go? Naive. Disintigration (which if RC has, the deity has) is the most likely effect, although there are other choices TDO could choose if he wanted.

[Kish]

There is definitely some aspect of the cloak that is detremental to humans otherwise....

The paladins would be grabbing the cloak for disposal whenever they kill "redcloak" like they have done several times in the past in SoD. Since they just leave it there -- it shows they can't just move the thing.
Or that they don't consider the red cloak to be anything more than a badge of office like white, brown, blue and so on cloaks.

[Scarlet Knight]

Or that they don't consider the red cloak to be anything more than a badge of office like white, brown, blue and so on cloaks.

Wasn't the red cloak a sign of rank in ancient Rome?

[Shale]

They know that it's called "The Crimson Mantle." The fact that it has a proper name would be a pretty good hint that it's at least magical, if not a full-on artifact.