Urban Ranger/Scout ?

[Velden]

I´m going to participate in a campaign and soon the players will enter a metropolis, they are supposed to meet a certain person but the bad news is that said person dissapeared...

From now on I will be brief...

-Party made of:1 Rogue, 1 Duskblade, 1 Paladin, 1 Cleric & me
-Divination that gives "hints" of where to go or what to do don´t work.
-Exp penalties apply for multiclassing.
-The DM favors spellcasters, this build has his approval, which I don´t know means he will enjoy kill me or he thinks its a good character overall.

-My character is focused on finding, capturing and/or killing individuals, specially arcanists. Neutral Alignment. Urban Ranger/Scout, he uses a bastard sword with two hands.


Human Feat:Dodge
1st Ranger 1:Ranger prof, Fav.enemy (arcanists +2), Urban Tracking, wild empathy, Champion of the Wild.Feat:mobility
2nd Scout 1:Scout prof, skirmish +1d6, trapfinding
3rd Scout 2:Battle Fort+1, Uncanny Dodge.Feat:Mage Slayer
4th Ranger 2:Strong Arm combat Style (Power Attack),
5th Scout 3:Fast Movement +10, Skirmish +1d6 +1 AC, Trackless Step.
6th Scout 4:Bonus Feat (Iron Will), Fav.Enemy(Undead+2 Arcanist +4), skirmish +2d6 +1 AC.Feat:Swift Hunter
7th Scout 5:Evasion, Skirmish +2d6 +2 AC
8th Ranger 3:Endurance.
9th Ranger 4:Urban Companion (cat), Skirmish +3d6 +2 AC, Bonus Feat:Blind fight.Feat:Pierce Magical Concealment
10th Ranger 5:Fav.enemy (Constructs +2 Arcanist +6),
11th Ranger 6:Strong Arm Combat Style (Improved Sunder), Skirmish +3d6 +3 AC,
12th Ranger 7:Feat:Spring Attack
13th Ranger 8:Swift Tracker:Urban Tracking,Skirmish +4d6 +3 AC, Bonus Feat:Improved Fav Enemy. <- At This point I join the party
14th Ranger 9:Spell Reflection,
15th:Ranger 10:Fav.enemy (plants +2 Arcanist +8),Skirmish +4d6 +3 AC.Feat:Indomitable Will

Stats:16 str, 18 dex, 12 con, 13 int, 12 wis, 8 cha

I know this isn´t an optimal character but I´m interested in knowing what you think about it and (if possible) give suggestions if something doesn´t make sense and should replace some features.

As long as I can win a normal confrontation according to my level I´m satisfied.

[Mongoose87]

Why is Dex such a high priority for a THF?

[Human Paragon 3]

This actually looks like a very good build to me, and a good wizard fighter. Wizards tend to use undead and constructs as backup, and you'll be able to skirmish them thanks to your favored enemy choices.

The only thing I would say is that strongarm style doesn't have very good synergy with skirmish since you can only get one strong arm attack off per round. Using TWF instead and finding a way (travel devotion, falling 10 feet, martian manuevers) to move 10 feet and still full attack would be preferable. Otherwise skirmish damage doesn't replace the power attack damage you're losing by not full attacking.

Spring attack is also a pretty unoptimal choice in general for the same reason. You can just tumble to avoid attacks of opportunity. You'd be much better served taking feats that grant you extra movement and TWFing multiple skirmish attacks per round.

[Greenish]

he uses a bastard sword with two hands.Why?
Stats:16 str, 18 dex, 12 con, 13 int, 12 wis, 8 chaThat's quite low Con for lightly armoured medium hitdie melee'er. As Mongoose already asked, what's with the Dex?

Other than that, you use three feats to hit once a round. Consider dipping cleric/spirit lion totem barbarian/martial adept for easier ways to activate Skirmish so that you can actually use your iteratives. (You can pick Travel Devotion without cleric dip, sure, but one level gives you another devotion too, or two with cloistered variant, and turn undead to feed many nifty feats.)

[Edit]: Handbook for one level dips to cleric. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2773.0) Yum yum. Person_Man's awesome movement handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358) also deserves, nay, requires a link.

[Velden]

Why?

Pierce Magical Concealment only works on melee and as far as I know power attack works best with a THW. Also I can get attacks of opportunity against wizards with the mage slayer feat (which impedes casting on the defensive).
Edit:Nevermind, it´s possible to use ranged attacks.


Why is Dex such a high priority for a THF?

I thought it would work with the Dex based skills, win initiative rolls, and it also helps against ranged touch attacks, which I need to dodge in order to deflect spells back to the casters.


That's quite low Con for lightly armoured medium hitdie melee'er. As Mongoose already asked, what's with the Dex?

I thought the low con wasn´t needed as much considering that I will be moving constantly, so my enemies will only be able to attack once per turn, instead of using the full attack action.


Other than that, you use three feats to hit once a round. Consider dipping cleric/spirit lion totem barbarian/martial adept for easier ways to activate Skirmish so that you can actually use your iteratives. (You can pick Travel Devotion without cleric dip, sure, but one level gives you another devotion too, or two with cloistered variant, and turn undead to feed many nifty feats.)
My character specializes in capturing individuals, specially wizards, in a city, that´s the main reason I picked the Urban Ranger (gather information tracking and sense motive) and swift tracker feat.


The only thing I would say is that strongarm style doesn't have very good synergy with skirmish since you can only get one strong arm attack off per round. Using TWF instead and finding a way (travel devotion, falling 10 feet, martian manuevers) to move 10 feet and still full attack would be preferable. Otherwise skirmish damage doesn't replace the power attack damage you're losing by not full attacking.
I picked that style because it allowed me to use power attack, sunder staffs or wands, and kill minor creatures in the case a summoner wants me to be surrounded by low level monsters.


Spring attack is also a pretty unoptimal choice in general for the same reason. You can just tumble to avoid attacks of opportunity. You'd be much better served taking feats that grant you extra movement and TWFing multiple skirmish attacks per round.

I picked spring attack because It allowed me to attack and retreat in the same turn, avoiding a full attack action from an enemy.

-----
Thank your for your suggestions, these are the changes I came up with based on your comments while maintaining the same character concept:

-Stats:18 STR, 13 DEX, 16 CON, 13 INT, 12 WIS, 8 CHA
-Instead of Dodge,mobility & spring attack:Power attack, Improved Initiative, Lion´s pounce.
-Instead of strong arm:Replace Combat Style for Wildshape and barbarian movement.(unearthed arcana)
-I messed up with Mage Slayer (+3 bab req), so I fixed it.


Human Feat:Power Attack
1st Ranger 1:Ranger prof, Fav.enemy (arcanists +2), Urban Tracking, wild empathy, Champion of the Wild. Fast Movement+10 (barb) Feat:Improved Initiative
2nd Ranger 2:
3rd Ranger 3:Endurance. Feat:Mage Slayer
4th Scout 1:Scout prof, skirmish +1d6, trapfinding.
5th Scout 2:Battle Fort+1, Uncanny Dodge.
6th Scout 3:Fast Movement +10(scout), Skirmish +1d6 +1 AC, Trackless Step, Fav.Enemy(Undead+2 Arcanist +4), skirmish +2d6 +1 AC.Feat:Swift Hunter
7th Ranger 4:Urban Companion (cat),Bonus Feat:Blind fight.
8th Scout 4:Bonus Feat (Iron Will),
9th Scout 5:Evasion, Skirmish +2d6 +2 AC Skirmish +3d6 +2 AC, Feat:Pierce Magical concealment
10th Ranger 5:Fav.enemy (Constructs +2 Arcanist +6),Wildshape/1
11th Ranger 6:, Skirmish +3d6 +3 AC, Wildshape/2
12th Ranger 7:Feat:Lion´s pounce, Wildshape/3.
13th Ranger 8:Swift Tracker:Urban Tracking,Skirmish +4d6 +3 AC, Bonus Feat:Improved Fav Enemy. <- At This point I join the party
14th Ranger 9:Spell Reflection,
15th:Ranger 10:Fav.enemy (plants +2 Arcanist +8),Skirmish +4d6 +4 AC.Feat:Indomitable Soul

Stats:18 STR, 13 DEX, 16 CON, 13 INT, 12 WIS, 8 CHA
(I still have 3 points to allocate)

I know that using maneuvers or martial classes would give better battle-oriented results, but what I´m trying to do is have some kind of balance between inteligence gathering and combat. Also, my DM isn´t familiar with Tome of Battle, so for now I prefer to stay with a urban ranger/scout build.

[Greenish]

Pierce Magical Concealment only works on melee and as far as I know power attack works best with a THW. Also I can get attacks of opportunity against wizards with the mage slayer feat (which impedes casting on the defensive).I meant, why Bastard Sword? You're two-handing, so you could as well pick Greatsword or a reach weapon.
I thought it would work with the Dex based skills, win initiative rolls, and it also helps against ranged touch attacks, which I need to dodge in order to deflect spells back to the casters.Well, it does do those things, but there are more expedient ways than using high base stat, since those are valuable.


I thought the low con wasn´t needed as much considering that I will be moving constantly, so my enemies will only be able to attack once per turn, instead of using the full attack action.You can still be hit by ranged, spells, enemies that surprise you etc.


My character specializes in capturing individuals, specially wizards, in a city, that´s the main reason I picked the Urban Ranger (gather information tracking and sense motive) and swift tracker feat.Nothing wrong with those.
I picked spring attack because It allowed me to attack and retreat in the same turn, avoiding a full attack action from an enemy.It also means you won't be full attacking enemies.


-Stats:18 STR, 13 DEX, 16 CON, 13 INT, 12 WIS, 8 CHA
-Instead of Dodge,mobility & spring attack:Power attack, Improved Initiative, Lion´s pounce.
-Instead of strong arm:Replace Combat Style for Wildshape and barbarian movement.(unearthed arcana)If you're wildshape variant, you probably won't be in your own shape during most combats, so high physical stats are less important. Power Attack isn't too hot either, since I seem to recall you don't get the bonus on your secondary natural attacks, but you do get the penalty. You also might want a higher Wis (and maybe Natural Spell) to actually cast your spells. They aren't so hot without Mystic Ranger variant or Sword of the Arcane Order (which might be fun with your fluff), but they could be useful.

[Velden]

I meant, why Bastard Sword? You're two-handing, so you could as well pick Greatsword or a reach weapon.

Character flavor I guess, I´m trying to avoid the spiked chain.
I´m not against using a greatsword or glaive, but the DM told me that using big weapons wouldn´t allow me to properly hide or remain low-profile while following someone. As things are, probably I´ll have to use a longsword instead of the bastard or greatsword, now that I think about it...


You can still be hit by ranged, spells, enemies that surprise you etc.
Not with Uncanny Dodge granted by the Scout Class. I can retain dex bonus to ac under circunstances where I normally couldn´t.



It also means you won't be full attacking enemies.
That´s true. Changing to Lion´s pounce would be better I guess(of course without requiring magic items or changing classes).


If you're wildshape variant, you probably won't be in your own shape during most combats, so high physical stats are less important. Power Attack isn't too hot either, since I seem to recall you don't get the bonus on your secondary natural attacks, but you do get the penalty. You also might want a higher Wis (and maybe Natural Spell) to actually cast your spells. They aren't so hot without Mystic Ranger variant or Sword of the Arcane Order (which might be fun with your fluff), but they could be useful.

The problem of the variant is that I can only change to small and medium sized animals, so I prefer to use wildshape for Lion´s pounce and full attack with a weapon after moving (this way using TH power attack & skirmish at the same time, adding that I´ll have the barb & scout fast movement, I shouldn´t have problems to reach my target with a charge).
Also, If I use this variant I can change into animals and use it as a disguise in the big city rather than for combat. (Or reach that "#$"#$ flying wizard)

I picked the Champion of the Wild ACF, which makes me lose spellcasting for bonus feats. I did that so I don´t have to worry for the mage slayer feats (Mage Slayer & Pierce Magical Concealment reduce your caster level permanently)

[jiriku]

I wouldn't worry too much about ranger spells. They aren't hot to begin with, the best ones are all first level, and casting as a ranger 5 levels below your ECL is just...not worth spending resources to improve. If there's a ranger spell you really like, get a wand of it and wand chamber it inside your weapon.

The second version of your character is better than the first. The concept is strong overall and should be a solid Tier 4 contributor.

Now that your Con is higher, I'd recommend replacing Iron Will with Steadfast Determination. Same bonus now, but improving your Con will benefit both your hp, Fort save, and Will save, so you reduce MAD. Indomitable Soul is meh. By level 15, your cleric will be making the whole party immune to fear with heroes' feast, and a humble protection from evil can serve to block mind-affecting spells. Swap it with Extra Wild Shape.

[Eldariel]

If you're wildshape variant, you probably won't be in your own shape during most combats, so high physical stats are less important. Power Attack isn't too hot either, since I seem to recall you don't get the bonus on your secondary natural attacks, but you do get the penalty.

No, Power Attack explicitly applies to NAs and UA Strikes always.

From SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack):
"You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks)"

[Optimator]

Be sure to check out the Urban Ranger in Unearthed Arcana (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rangerVariantUrbanRang er), The Half-Elf Ranger substitution levels in Races of Destiny, and, most of all, the fabulous Cityscape Web Enhancements (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a).

Ranger spells kick ass. Don''t let anyone tell you otherwise, unless you don't have access to the Spell Compendium. Also see Champions of Ruin for some extra-awesome Ranger spells (although they are mostly archery related in that one). Rhino's Rush comes to mind as a particularly good one for your melee character.

It's a crime your DM enforces multiclass penalties. A one-level Barbarien dip for the Lion totem (Complete Champion) would do wonders for your build. Wonders, I tell ya. Also, feats like Investigate from the Eberron Campaign Setting or Snap Kick from the Tome of Battle might be flavorful. Nothing like getting an extra attack when Skirmish is on the line.

[Velden]

I wouldn't worry too much about ranger spells. They aren't hot to begin with, the best ones are all first level, and casting as a ranger 5 levels below your ECL is just...not worth spending resources to improve. If there's a ranger spell you really like, get a wand of it and wand chamber it inside your weapon.
That´s the main reason I chose the Champion of the Wild ACF. Sadly I can´t use wands...-.-


Now that your Con is higher, I'd recommend replacing Iron Will with Steadfast Determination. (...)By level 15, your cleric will be making the whole party immune to fear with heroes' feast, and a humble protection from evil can serve to block mind-affecting spells. Swap it with Extra Wild Shape.
Steadfast determination? I can´t. Steadfast determination isn´t in the scout or ranger bonus feat list.
Extra Wild shape? It could be, Favored Power attack could also be an option, this way I could make 3 times more damage to favored enemies (incluiding that "$#$"# flying wizard)
Normally I always pick undomitable soul because I tend to get affected by mind controlling spells...Now that my character is focused on fighting spellcasters I fear this isn´t going to be the exception.


Be sure to check out the Urban Ranger in Unearthed Arcana, The Half-Elf Ranger substitution levels in Races of Destiny, and, most of all, the fabulous Cityscape Web Enhancements.

This build is based on Unearthed Arcana, Complete Series and the Cityscape Web Enhancements.


Ranger spells kick ass. Don''t let anyone tell you otherwise, unless you don't have access to the Spell Compendium. Also see Champions of Ruin for some extra-awesome Ranger spells (although they are mostly archery related in that one). Rhino's Rush comes to mind as a particularly good one for your melee character.
That´s true, but, as I already mentioned, the mage slayer feats already kill most, if not all, my spellcasting capabilities (-8 CL for spells and spell-like abilities).

Thank your for your comments, I guess this would be the final build for my character.


Human Feat:Power Attack
1st Ranger 1:Ranger prof, Fav.enemy (arcanists +2), Urban Tracking, wild empathy, Champion of the Wild. Fast Movement+10 (barb) Feat:Improved Initiative
2nd Ranger 2:
3rd Ranger 3:Endurance. Feat:Mage Slayer
4th Scout 1:Scout prof, skirmish +1d6, trapfinding.
5th Scout 2:Battle Fort+1, Uncanny Dodge.
6th Scout 3:Fast Movement +10(scout), Skirmish +1d6 +1 AC, Trackless Step, Fav.Enemy(Undead+2 Arcanist +4), skirmish +2d6 +1 AC.Feat:Swift Hunter
7th Ranger 4:Urban Companion (cat),Bonus Feat:Blind fight.
8th Scout 4:Bonus Feat (Iron Will),
9th Scout 5:Evasion, Skirmish +2d6 +2 AC Skirmish +3d6 +2 AC, Feat:Pierce Magical concealment
10th Ranger 5:Fav.enemy (Constructs +2 Arcanist +6),Wildshape/1
11th Ranger 6:, Skirmish +3d6 +3 AC, Wildshape/2
12th Ranger 7:Feat:Lion´s pounce, Wildshape/3.
13th Ranger 8:Swift Tracker:Urban Tracking,Skirmish +4d6 +3 AC, Bonus Feat:Improved Fav Enemy.
14th Ranger 9:Spell Reflection,
15th:Ranger 10:Fav.enemy (plants +2 Arcanist +8),Skirmish +4d6 +4 AC.Feat:Favored Power Attack

Stats:18 STR, 13 DEX, 16 CON, 13 INT, 12 WIS, 8 CHA

By level 15th, the character would have (considering feat selection):
-[11+7*14=109 HP]
-[BAB=13/8/3]
-[Fort:9+Con, Ref:12+Dex, Will:8+Wis]
-Movement:+50 ft
-Touch AC:11+4(skirmish)

Skills ranks:136/18=7 skills maxed:
-Gather Information
-Sense Motive
-Hide
-Move Silently
-Tumble (Replaces Ride)
-Search
-Listen
-Spellcraft (4 ranks)[req for Mage Slayer]
-Knowledge (arcane) (2 ranks) [req for Arcane Hunter]
+4 ranks to spend on other skills. (¿Perhaps knowledge (local) or heal ?)

Attack with TH Longsword+3 (I don´t know what weapon will the DM give me):
Single attack Against normal opponent:Atk+20(+15 w/-5 PA), Dmg+25 (+35 w/-5 PA). With Lion´s pounce, if all three attacks hit: 60 dmg (105 w/-5 PA)

Single Attack Against spellcaster:Atk+20(+15 w/-5 PA),Dmg+36(+51 w/-5 PA). With Lion´s pounce, if all three attacks hit: 108 dmg (+153 w/-5 PA). Ignores concealment granted by magical means and mirror image.

I´m still not sure on what to spend the 3 atribute points (perhaps +1 dex, +2 con?), but I´ll see that for myself. Thanks for everything!