Other Obscure Plot Minutiae

[OPM]

I'm glad to see the obscure plot minutiae in OoTS 709 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0709.html), but am I the only one who was expecting to see a long-forgotten illusionary character show up? That's right, shouldn't the Permanent, Programmed Illusion of Belkar (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html) still be somewhere in Azure City's prisons?

I admit that I don't know the exact rules for the spell used (it looks like some combined permanent image (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ProgrammedImage.htm)/programmed image (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ProgrammedImage.htm) spell), nor how gates blowing up affect illusions, but you'd think that the illusion would still be wandering some part of Azure City. I mean, it pretty much had to be a spell with a duration of "permanent" or it couldn't have lasted "weeks."

I was half-expecting him to ruin the prison raid or at least confuse the raiders. Maybe he's in the bonus comics?

(Then again, I don't think I've seen Permanent Illusionary Belkar [not to be confused with ordinary Illusionary Belkar that Elan conjured] in the Crack Pairings threads, either... and they include everyone and everything... o_0)

[thubby]

the area the illusion was in was obliterated when the gate was destroyed. I imagine the illusion went with it.

[OPM]

the area the illusion was in was obliterated when the gate was destroyed. I imagine the illusion went with it.

While that's plausible, there are two problems with that theory:

A) The prisons are still standing; they weren't destroyed when the gate exploded. See strip 705 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0705.html), and take a good look at the sign, which proves that the goblins & hobgoblins have merely taken over Azure City's prison, rather than building their own. Maybe other prisons were destroyed (such as the one where the kidnapper got crushed), but we never saw PIB (Permanent Illusionary Belkar) in there, either. That was a separate prison tower (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0411.html), as far as we know. And someone should have noticed Belkar and PIB in the same place... right?

B) As far as I know, you can't destroy an illusion with an explosion (e.g. fireball will not destroy a permanent image... though dispel magic sure could). Granted, the gate explosion could be special, but we have no evidence of it destroying or dispelling any other magical effects.

(As you might imagine, I have been lurking around the Class and Level Geekery threads for quite a while...)

[thubby]

I'm fairly sure belkar wasn't being held there.
the cells belkar were in were part of the main building, not a separate one, and certainly not that far from where those goblins are partying. when the thurge fought the chlorine elemental directly outside the path to the throne room, she was pinned against the jail belkar was supposed to be in (i think)
I'm guessing they were temporary holding cells of some sort.

the illusion isn't a normal one as you pointed out, so it may be tied to the location it's on.
or the "scripting" can't function anymore since it's preconditions can't be met properly.

[OPM]

I'm fairly sure belkar wasn't being held there.
the cells belkar were in were part of the main building, not a separate one, and certainly not that far from where those goblins are partying. when the thurge fought the chlorine elemental directly outside the path to the throne room, she was pinned against the jail belkar was supposed to be in (i think)
I'm guessing they were temporary holding cells of some sort.

the illusion isn't a normal one as you pointed out, so it may be tied to the location it's on. or the "scripting" can't function anymore since it's preconditions can't be met properly.

Well, it's pretty confusing because he was held in no less than three separate places by my count, though feel free to correct me if you see evidence that my memory of the plot is wrong:

A) Belkar is held in solitary confinement while the rest of the order is in the anti-magic cells. The only entrance is a trapdoor and that's how he escapes with his ring of jumping +20 to kill a guard and fight Miko.

B) He's jailed again for killing the guard while the rest of the order is set free. Roy uses his "Get out of jail free" card to have Belkar released into his care with a Mark of Justice. This is when the Permanent Illusionary Belkar is created by Roy's dad to cover it up, with Belkar's share of the treasure going to raise the guard from prison A. These are different cells than the first time because you can see him through the bars and there's no trapdoor in the roof.

C) He's jailed once more after Lord Shojo is killed by Miko. This is when they're all in the tower together, and we see the kidnapper, Belkar, Miko and the Linear Guild, but no PIB. And we saw Sabine try to turn Miko among other things, so we ought to have seen the illusion if it were there. Shojo is gone at this point so I'm not sure that Eugene had any chance to dispel it even if he wanted to. You can also see that this cell is in the tower due to the fight they have (which does, in fact, destroy it).

Now, I grant that prisons B & C might be the same, but we get a pretty good look at prison C even if we don't see much of prison B, so we ought to have seen the illusion if it was there.

As for triggers... it was programmed to be "indistinguishable from the real Belkar" so I'm not sure that the triggers would be gone, either. I figured that it would be programmed to spout generic insults at anyone good aligned (which, yes, is valid per the SRD which allows triggering on alignment), but I guess it could also insult only "jail guard" or something and it could very well be sitting in some small (or destroyed) area quietly doing nothing, given that it appears to be tied to a specific location (at least, if it acts like the other illusion spells it appears to be based on).

But I might be reading too much into things...

[zimmerwald1915]

It should be preety obvious, but the cell block where Illusory Belkar was "held" could not have been the anti-magic cell block. Just throwing that out there to see if it helps.

[Deca]

If the jails the illusion was in was part of the buildings that got blown up, wouldn't the illusion just hang in the air where it was rather than fall to the ground?

The ground it was on disappearing shouldn't affect it.

[Herald Alberich]

Perhaps Eugene, or someone else, dismissed the illusion after Belkar was captured the third time. Once the jig was up, there was no need for it anymore.

[Yendor]

Perhaps Eugene, or someone else, dismissed the illusion after Belkar was captured the third time. Once the jig was up, there was no need for it anymore.

That really does seem the simplest and most probable explanation.

[Nimrod's Son]

It's now wandering the city, gleefully murdering any hallucination it happens to come across. Don't go trippin' in Azure City, man. BAD vibes.

[Pyron]

It's now wandering the city, gleefully murdering any hallucination it happens to come across.

That explains why nobody noticed the Dancing Knights.

[OPM]

Perhaps Eugene, or someone else, dismissed the illusion after Belkar was captured the third time. Once the jig was up, there was no need for it anymore.

Can you dismiss it, though? Hmm, the SRD says that you CAN dismiss a permanent image, but not a programmed image. So I guess Eugene could have dismissed it if whatever spell he used had a duration similar to permanent image.

But I like it better my way, better... I can only imagine what an illusion designed to be indistinguishable from Belkar would be doing in a ruined city. I mean, it doesn't seem high on Eugene's priority list to dismiss some illusion when he's getting dumped by Violet and brooding over Roy getting into paradise before he does, but who knows?

[ThePhantasm]

Itd be cool if the Order runs into it again after Belkar's death - a moment for remembering their fallen friend nostalgically. Then the illusion would insult them (punchline!).

[OPM]

Itd be cool if the Order runs into it again after Belkar's death - a moment for remembering their fallen friend nostalgically. Then the illusion would insult them (punchline!).

Well, Elan does know Major Image and he is actually capable of summoning a temporary Belkar replacement on demand, so they don't even need to visit Azure City Gobbotopia for that.

What I wonder is whether Belkar will get as cool a tombstone as Therkla did...