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Shadwen
2010-03-25, 07:18 PM
Im thinking of making a Cleric.

The cleric will be an archer of a good alignment.

He is a faithful guardian of the woods.

Our dm isnt letting us have access to alot of magical items and I want to be able to forge my own arrows and enhance my bow while doing some amazing damage.

Can someone guide me through the start of the character and move towards the end.

Ive been leaning towards Human or Dwarf. If something is better please let me know.

Thinking about this being the best survivablility.


Also:

Can I enchant an arrow with a heal and put a soft tip on it so when it hits the target it heals them?

Escheton
2010-03-25, 07:22 PM
feat: zen archery, wis to ranged attacks instead of dex

Prestigeclass: arcane archer, tweak for clericversion

to start things off a bit

Flickerdart
2010-03-25, 07:24 PM
Arcane Archer is terribad and a Cleric can't take it anyway. What you want is to DMM Persist a slew of sexy buffs, the reason that Clerics make excellent archers.

The Glyphstone
2010-03-25, 07:25 PM
Prestigeclass: arcane archer, tweak for clericversion

Arcane Archer is Elf-only, and he wants to be Human or Dwarf.

If you can get around this, though, do not take more than 2 levels of the class (to get imbue arrow).

Shadwen
2010-03-25, 07:27 PM
Doubt I can get around it.

I think zen archery would be a good choice.

So the idea is simply buff up and fire away?

HunterOfJello
2010-03-25, 07:30 PM
check out the Cleric Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.0) for build information


and don't forget the Elf Domain. you get one of those archery feats for free

Eldariel
2010-03-25, 07:37 PM
Depending on deities, you'll want ones that grant bonus feats. Elf-domain is indeed a good one, giving you Point Blank Shot. If you happen to be a Cleric of a deity that favors Longbow and grants War-domain, War-domain to pick up WF: Longbow along with proficiency is also good.

Human is definitely the best race (or Elf for free bow proficiencies) for the bonus feat. You'll probably want:
- Zen Archery
- Rapid Shot
- Craft Magic Arms & Armor (by the sound of it; Craft Wondrous Items is also good)
- Extend Spell
- Quicken Spell

And Divine Might if you have impressive Charisma. It's a fcking awesome ability to go with a bow. Then just Divine Favor and Blessed Aim and Cat's Grace/Bull's Strength/Owl's Wisdom it up and go to town.

Flickerdart
2010-03-25, 07:37 PM
Doubt I can get around it.

I think zen archery would be a good choice.

So the idea is simply buff up and fire away?
Yeah, grab Extra Turning, a nightstick, Persist Spell and DMM: Persist, persist your favourite buffs in the morning (Divine Power is a classic) with a Bead of Karma for increased caster level, and then mow down anything that moves.
The Animal Bonus spells suck because of their short duration and Enhancement bonus. You're better off buying an item unless you're willing to Persist them.

Eldariel
2010-03-25, 07:41 PM
The Animal Bonus spells suck because of their short duration and Enhancement bonus. You're better off buying an item unless you're willing to Persist them.

Except Shapechange and Antilife Shell. Those two are excellent. I think he forgot to mention it, but AFAIK he's still playing 3.0 so Animal-domain comes with basically Druid's Animal Companion as a domain feature, making it quite strong actually.

Flickerdart
2010-03-25, 07:44 PM
I meant the Owl's Wisdom, Fox's Cunning and such spells, not the domain.

Shadwen
2010-03-25, 07:45 PM
Yes i am still 3.0 but allowed to take some 3.5 if i can show it to him (not sure why).


Ok thank you for the suggestions. Im trying to make him right now. level 5 cleric archer.

From my dm for the game i will be playing tomorrow night so im in a rush to pop something out.

Your rolls are 18,18,17,15,15,13

Lord Vukodlak
2010-03-25, 07:46 PM
And if its 3.0 then +5 bows and arrows stack, if I recall correctly.

Eldariel
2010-03-25, 07:52 PM
And if its 3.0 then +5 bows and arrows stack, if I recall correctly.

And this, my friends, is the reason why every Archer should be capable of casting Greater Magic Weapon in 3.0!

OracleofWuffing
2010-03-25, 07:54 PM
Also:

Can I enchant an arrow with a heal and put a soft tip on it so when it hits the target it heals them?
For what it gets you, Masters of the Wild has Arrows of Cure Light, Moderate, Serious, and Critical Wounds. They don't need to have a soft tip on them, I presume a sharper tip grants easier access to injuries.

Shadwen
2010-03-25, 08:02 PM
At above guy.

The sharp tips seem like they would do dmg and cut down the heal.

If they stack my cleric is gonna be Godlike. I hope.


I wonder in 3.0..is there a duskblade?

Eldariel
2010-03-25, 08:03 PM
I wonder in 3.0..is there a duskblade?

No. 3.0 doesn't really do extra base classes. But on the flipside, Clerics, Wizards and Druids kick even more ass than in 3.5.

Shadwen
2010-03-25, 08:13 PM
Ok, sounds good. I really think the backfield assist cleric might do good in the campaign. I thought archer would allow me to do more and it seems like it would be a decent setup to improve damage output and be good at multiple solutions.

EagleWiz
2010-03-25, 08:30 PM
Yeah, grab Extra Turning, a nightstick, Persist Spell and DMM: Persist, persist your favourite buffs in the morning (Divine Power is a classic) with a Bead of Karma for increased caster level, and then mow down anything that moves.
The Animal Bonus spells suck because of their short duration and Enhancement bonus. You're better off buying an item unless you're willing to Persist them.

Although this might make the DM hit you with the DMG. Or just drop a Psusdonatural Paragon That Damned Crab on you.

Flickerdart
2010-03-25, 08:33 PM
Although this might make the DM hit you with the DMG. Or just drop a Psusdonatural Paragon That Damned Crab on you.
Without stacking Nightsticks, he can only persist two or three things, so it won't be too bad. Many common Clericzilla buffs are less useful to an archer, like Righteous Might or Divine Power.

Shadwen
2010-03-25, 08:35 PM
Yeah, grab Extra Turning, a nightstick, Persist Spell and DMM

Please Explain this to me in easy terms. Or how it works. Im not quite sure on what DMM means and all that.

Eldariel
2010-03-25, 08:40 PM
Yeah, grab Extra Turning, a nightstick, Persist Spell and DMM

Please Explain this to me in easy terms. Or how it works. Im not quite sure on what DMM means and all that.

It's a feat from Complete Divine. And that's the issue, it doesn't exist in 3.0. Basically, it allows you to spend turn attempts instead of paying metamagic costs of a metamagic feat. Persistent Spell (it's in 3.0 too) makes a spell last 24 hours instead of its normal cost, but is a +6 meta feat.

Nightstick is a Rod from Libris Mortis that gives you +4 Turn Undead-uses; very useful to pay for Divine Metamagic. That said, it's probably not allowed and it's not very feat-economic either way. Since 3.0 has a vastly larger number of all-day buffs than 3.5, I suggest you instead just go with metamagic (Extend Spell, Quicken Spell, maybe Empower Spell) the old-fashioned way along with the Rapid Shot/Divine Might/Craft Magic Arms & Armor-line.

Human or Elf; probably Elf with Elf-domain getting you Point Blank Shot for free (along with Longbow proficiency). Then you can pick Rapid Shot on 1, Precise Shot on 3, Zen Archery on 6 and be set.

Shadwen
2010-03-25, 08:43 PM
Sounds great.

I think I might go elf if it turns out to be the better. I talked to him and if human I can follow the elf deity since my gf is going to be an elf druid I am able to have lived in a elf areas so have access to the elf domain. It aint that big of a deal to him.

absolmorph
2010-03-25, 09:18 PM
For what it gets you, Masters of the Wild has Arrows of Cure Light, Moderate, Serious, and Critical Wounds. They don't need to have a soft tip on them, I presume a sharper tip grants easier access to injuries.
-scratches head-
Is this the same sort of concept as a healing shank?

Eldariel
2010-03-25, 09:25 PM
Sounds great.

I think I might go elf if it turns out to be the better. I talked to him and if human I can follow the elf deity since my gf is going to be an elf druid I am able to have lived in a elf areas so have access to the elf domain. It aint that big of a deal to him.

Wild Elf is probably the best option. Bonus to Dex (inconsequential), penalty to Int (inconsequential). Wood Elf would have an Str-bonus, but the 3.0 version had penalty to all mental stats (and you want Cha anyways) so it's a no-go. At least it helps you qualify for the archery feats thanks to the Dex-bonus.

So yeah, you can actually skip Precise Shot early on and take Craft Magic Arms & Armor or Craft Wondrous Items instead. And yeah, Zen Archery on level 6. Elvenship gets you Longbow Prof and Elf-domain (should be open at least from Corellon if nothing else) gets you Point Blank Shot.

Shadwen
2010-03-25, 09:42 PM
Ok so let me get this right

Stats are:
Main Wis
Second DEX
Third Con?

Then go Human married to Elf

cleric archer

Take Elf doman and get free point blank shot?

Next take

Precise Shot (free)
Craft magical arms/armor (1)

ManyShot (3)?

Zen Archery (6?)



DM is giving me:

Prof Longbow
Access to Elf Domain

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-25, 09:51 PM
Arcane Archer is terribad and a Cleric can't take it anyway. What you want is to DMM Persist a slew of sexy buffs, the reason that Clerics make excellent archers.

And 5 different pools of Turn Undead replacements that can fuel DMM. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.420)

Eldariel
2010-03-25, 09:53 PM
Main Wis (it's the absolute greatest prerequisite bar none; you may even want to consider being a bit older, maybe middle-aged, to get mental bonuses at the cost of your physicals but that depends on your phys), second Str (it's your damage), third Cha/Con (you need less Con than your average Cleric due to being archer, while Cha adds to your Divine Might which you'll probably want to pick up). You need 13 Dex to qualify for Rapid Shot but no more than that.

Domains:
- Elf
- Something that suits your purpose and character; Planning would be excellent as it grants Extend Spell (a feat you'll want eventually) but don't know how it fits here. Animal is quite good provided you make heavy use of Animal Friendship. Travel offers you some mobility options later in the game.

Feats:
B. Point Blank Shot
B. MWP: Longbow
H. Rapid Shot
1st. Precise Shot

Now, here-in lies the issue: Zen Archery requires BAB +3. By level 3, your BAB is only +2, which means you'd have to wait until level 6 to pick it. Which sucks as you start on level 5. Same with Craft Magic Arms & Armor. It requires caster level 5th which you don't have on level 3.

You could pick Craft Wondrous Items and it's likely somewhat stronger than CMA&A, but it doesn't help you craft your own bows and arrows. If you can't get your DM to loosen the prerequisites of either, you have few options:
3rd. Power Attack (this is prerequisite for Divine Might, which is what you really want)
6th. Zen Archery

You could also skip Precise Shot and just avoid shooting at enemies engaging allies in melee. Alternatively, you could craft a Precise bow which takes care of that for you. That would allow:

H. Power Attack
1st. Rapid Shot
3rd. Divine Might
6th. Zen Archery

Alternatively, skipping Divine Might for now, you could have:

H. Extend Spell
1st. Rapid Shot
3rd. Craft X
6th. Zen Archery

or Precise Shot. Much depends on how lenient/tight your DM is with the prerequisites and how quickly you expect to gain levels.

Shadwen
2010-03-25, 09:58 PM
I might go with this one to start

H. Power Attack
1st. Rapid Shot
3rd. Divine Might
6th. Zen Archery


It seems to have the best flow and I can always grab precise later.

It also seems to give me the most perfection.

Ill call him about loosening.

He says I would only be allowed to craft +1s (tops) and it would cost me .5 more than usual to do it until i meet the reqs.

Eldariel
2010-03-25, 10:03 PM
Don't bother Crafting then. You can do very well with just spells to first enhance your fighting skills and later, to enhance your weapons (once you gain Greater Magic Weapon tho you can of course use Magic Weapon already); +1s aren't really useful to you anyways due to those spells.

Shadwen
2010-03-25, 10:07 PM
Oh, just making sure but those were until i meet the prereqs then I can craft as wanted.

But if I dont need it cool. Bet I can join a church and get some eq for free.

Jacob Orlove
2010-03-25, 10:24 PM
I meant the Owl's Wisdom, Fox's Cunning and such spells, not the domain.
Actually, these spells are awesome in 3.0, they have an hour/level duration. And you can stack Extend Spell more than once.

So, at level 10, cast a triple-Extended Owl's Wisdom with one of your 5th level slots, and enjoy your +Wisdom for 40 hours.

Also, since the bonus was 1d4+1 instead of the flat +4, you can Empower them too. More than once, even.

Honestly, you probably don't even need Divine Metamagic+Persistant Spell. Just extending/empowering your good hour/level buffs is potent enough. This lets you skip items too. Just spend your spell slots, you'll have plenty.

Here's FrankTrollman's old 3.0 Cleric Archer build, courtesy of google. You probably don't need to take things this far, but it should give you some good ideas:
Originally Posted by FrankTrollman
OK, now it's time for everyone's favorite piece of cheese - the Archer Cleric. I've drawn on elements from FRCS, Tome and Blood, and Defenders of the Faith. Everything else, including the character's race - comes directly from the Core Books.

For the purpose of this discussion, the Character will be a Lawful Good:

Cleric 6/ Church Inquisitor 3/ Divine Disciple 2/ Contemplative 6/ Sacred Exorcist 3


Race: Grey Elf
Domains: Elf, War, Inquisition, Exorcism, Mysticism, Time, Plant
Feats: Point Blank Shot*, Weapon Focus: Longbow*, Improved Initiative*, Extend Spell, Extra Turning*, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Persistant Spell, Power attack, Divine Might, Empower Spell

Abilities:
Str 9 (18)
Dex 21 (25-31)
Con 13 (17-23)
Int 15 (17)
Wis 28 (34)
Cha 16 (24-28)

Spell Slots:
1st: 8+1
2nd: 8+1
3rd: 8+1
4th: 8+1
5th: 6+1
6th: 6+1
7th: 6+1
8th: 6+1
9th: 5+1

Spell Usage per day:
1st: Endure Elements: all 5.
2nd: Undetectable Alignment
3rd: Water Breathing, x2 Extended Deathwatch (twice)
4th: Extended Magic Vestment (Shield), Extended Magic Vestment (Tower Shield), Extended Magic Vestment (Armor), Extended Spikes (morningstar)
5th: Persist Divine Favor, Extended GMW (Bow), Extended GMW (Arrows), Persist Entropic Shield, Extended GMW (morningstar)
6th: Extended x2 Empowered Cat's Grace (Domain Slot- Rod), Persist Speak with Animals, Wind Walk
7th: Extended x2 Empowered Eagle's Splendor (+4-10 charisma), Extended x2 Empowered Endurance (+4-10 Constitution), Persist Blessed Aim, Extended x5 Barkskin (domain slot), Persist Speak with Plants
8th: Persist Divine Power, Persist Weapon of Diety, Persist Repel Vermin, Persist Freedom of Movement, Extended Foresight (Domain Slot- Rod), Extended x5 Magic Circle Against Evil
9th: x2 Extended Foresight (Domain Slot- Rod), x5 Extended Tongues, x5 Extended Deathward, x5 Extended Air Walk

Equipment:
+1 Animated Darkwood Tower Shield (9630)
+1 Animated Steel Shield of Speed and Command (64170)
+1 Mithril Chain Shirt of Greater Fortification (37300)
+1 Mighty Darkwood Longbow of Shock, Fire and Frost (32730)
100 +1 darkwood arrows of spell storing (16750)
50 +1 darkwood Ghost Touch Arrows (8375)
+5 Cloak of Resistance (25000)
Ring of Counterspells - Greater Dispelling (4000)
Ring of Protection +5 (50000)
Bracers of Archery (5100)
Rod of Greater Extension (48600)
Clear Ioun Stone (20000)
Quiver of Ehlonna (1800)
Periapt of Wisdom (36000)
Robe of Eyes (90000)
Tome of Understanding +4 (11000)
Tome of Leadership +3 (82500)
Payment for gate invoked wishes adding +1 to all stats (13200)
Karma Bead (5000)
Boots of Striding and Springing (6000)
Eyepatch of True Seeing (75000)
Gloves of Storing (4400)
Headband of Intellect +2 (4000)
10 Pearls of Power I (10000)
Darkwood Morningstar (388)

Attack
+1 Weapon Focus
+2 Morale
+6 Luck
+10 Enhancement
+2 Competance
+8 Dexterity
+20 BAB
DaMaGe
+6 Luck
+10 Enhancement
+1 Competance
+8 Divine Might
+4 Strength
Saves
+5 Resistance
+8 Charisma
+3 Luck
+1 Competance
+2 Insight (Reflex Only)
AC
15 Cover
+7 shield
+9 Armor
+5 Natural Armor
+6 Dexterity
+5 Deflection
+2 Insight
+4 Haste
10 Base


Ranged Attacks: +49, +47/+47/+42/+37/+32
Ranged Damage: d8+3d6+29 (average 44 19-20 threat, critical adds 2d8+58 average 110) + spell effect (such as 3d8+15 damage of inflicted wounds - 28.5 damage save for half)
Melee Attacks: +33, +33/+28/+23/+18
Melee Damage: d8+33 (average 37 19-20 threat)
Saves: Fort: +31, Ref: +25, Will: +36
AC: 63

Every morning prayer begins with the activation of the karma bead - meaning that each day's worth of prayers are at caster level 24. The first greater dispelling cast upon her is automatically dispelled, and since she is hasted at all times, restocking the ring of counterspells is a trivial matter.

She is immune to poison, death effects, charm effects, critical hits, alignment detection, surprise, flat-footedness, 6 HD or less vermin (including that generated by creeping doom), disease (even magical disease), and effects that restrict movement such as paralysis or hold.

She can breathe water or air, and can walk on earth and sky with impunity. She can see the invisible and in the dark and through illusions for 120 feet. She can assume cloud form or detect evil at will and is resistant to fire, acid, sonic, electricty and cold.

She can speak with plants, animals, or any creature which has a language, and has a diplomacy bonus of over +30. She can dispel illusions with a touch at will, and gains a +4 bonus on all dispelling checks. She is resistant to possessing entities - but that generally doesn't matter because she is constantly in a MCaE effect that prevents possession and bodily contact from extraplanar creatures.

She still has spells left over, and her Implosion has a not-inconsiderable Save DC of 31, but primarily she is a warrior and diplomat, leaving the "spellcasting" to wizards. Several of her stats are given a range, as they are based on multiply empowered enhancement spells that last for two days. I have assumed that between the two copies of each which are active on her at all times, she rolled at least a '2' on the d4 - obviously her stats would rise considerable were she to roll a 4 instead. Note Also: when engaging in melee she has to store her animated tower shield, which drops her AC - a lot.

PS: Her Spot bonus is very large, over +30 before adding any actual ranks to the skill.

Shadwen
2010-03-25, 10:37 PM
Nice guide, extremely gear dependant and not meant to show starting just the end result.

I need stuff for a level 1-10 to start.

Eldariel
2010-03-26, 07:15 AM
The build listed does have lots of ideas you can draw upon though. E.g. taking Persistent Spell later on is probably a good idea. It's in Tome and Blood and only +4 levels in 3.0; that makes it excellent, but not before level 15 (when you can Persist Divine Power). So again, quite a while from now :smallwink:

But for equipment, you're actually quite strong without equipment due to your buffing. From the list, there are few noteworthies you'll want to look at once you have money:
- Beads of Karma (from Strand of Prayer Beads; 3.5 version is a bit more expensive)
- Orange Prism Ioun Stone (3.5 item; 30k grants +1 to Caster Level)
- Bracers of Archery (3.0 version is much better tho; *frowntown*)
- Quiver of Ehlonna
- Heward's Handy Haversack

Interestingly, thanks to your magic, you'll fare just fine with just an ordinary Longbow. Though of course, magical abilities stacked on it help damage-wise.


And yeah, later on Str becomes less important, but I'd stick to the Wis > Str > Cha/Con > Dex now provided your stats are high enough to ensure that 13 Dex.

Shadwen
2010-03-26, 12:35 PM
How much in total would I need for that eq? and along that note any cool tricks to get gold? or any decent setups using a church and stuff to gain aid like that?