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View Full Version : Measures against Rocket Tag [3.5]



Ryuuk
2010-03-26, 12:18 PM
I think this is something that just rubs me the wrong way in the system. When I imagine a memorable encounter, I don't see it as a shootout at high noon from westerns, where the first person to act kills the other one in an instant. I imagine a long, grueling comfrontation, I see both parties trading blows, trying to get the the slightest advantage over the other and I see this advantage shifting time and time again until finally, someone can't take the hit and there's only one man standing.

Encounters ending in a single spell that incapacitates everyone before even the first round ends, or characters that deal hundreds of damage in one action against enemies with barely 50hp make the above kind of difficult.

Any suggestions in avoiding Rocket Tag? How can I make important encounters more drawn out?

Mikeavelli
2010-03-26, 12:40 PM
Pit the players against large numbers of smaller enemies rather than single large encounters. Don't use anything more than 1-2 CR under the characters, because they'll just be eaten up like nobodies business.

It's a delicate balance, you can expect the Uber-charger to annihilate at least one of them per round, but you have to make it so they can't Great Cleave the whole mess of beasties.

Include a caster-type that buffs up the minions before the fight, include spells that provide immunity or very strong defense against the various one-hit-kill buttons the players have access to.

Like, my players fought a Red Dragon in my previous game. Instead of just the Dragon itself, there was it's lair to contend with (it was in the Caldera of a Volcano, dealing fire damage every round from the intense heat, and it had some dwarves design a mechanical pump that flooded the only tunnel to its horde with lava) - some fire elementals, and a Dragonspawn caster minion to content with.

Have the villains use a lot of save-or-suck spells like Grease, Web, glitterdust, etc. Six players working together can kill the hell out of pretty much anything remotely close to an appropriate challenge for them, so get ways to split the party up and challenge them individually.

Have the "build-up" encounters weaken the players in differently significant ways. Stat damage is beautiful for this. Diseases, poisons, etc. Keep them on a time limit so they can't rest and heal up.

tyckspoon
2010-03-26, 12:45 PM
Play low-level games with increased survivability measures, like more HP and making more spells function like Hold Person with extra saves to end the effect, so that landing a Color Spray or a Sleep offers a few rounds of tactical advantage but doesn't necessarily mean the end of the fight. Higher level D&D is inherently rocket-taggish; if you have a level 10+ party that is taking a long time to carry out their fights, they're either fighting too many opponents at once or they're incompetent.

Alternately, don't play D&D. The highly abstracted combat system and the completely non-real nature of HP makes it a very poor starting point for the kind of fight you're talking about. You may be interested in systems that use wound penalty tracks so that somebody who is worn down in combat is actually worn down, or ones that use combat maneuvers such that the way you fight has more impact than just the description you use while you're shaking the d20.

wormwood
2010-03-26, 01:01 PM
Play a different rule system? D&D 3.5 isn't really built for the type of fight you crave.

Edit: yeah, i know, not very helpful. sorry.

Saph
2010-03-26, 01:05 PM
General advice:

Don't allow alpha strike builds. No uberchargers stacking Frenzied Berserker and Shock Trooper, no metamagic-abusing spellcasters with Arcane Thesis. These sort of PCs typically lead to boring combats anyway, so players usually won't mind once you explain that in return you'll be extending them the same courtesy.
As a DM, build monsters with high defences. As a player, do the same. A mid-to-high level character should be able to counter or absorb most basic attack types.
Use cover and concealment. If the monster faces the PCs in a 20' by 20' room then you can expect a slugfest. If the fight takes place in a mazelike area where it's hard to even see your opponent, then things will be different.
Play characters and NPCs as though they were real people. In real life, most people care more about staying alive than they do about winning. PCs who are badly hurt should pull to the back of the party; antagonists who are hurt should withdraw rather than fighting to the death.
At the same time, though, remember that the potential for lethality is also what makes 3.5's combat system interesting. If you go too far the other way, then combats can become dull. Players should always feel that their character is at some risk, even if not a big risk, and likewise, it's no fun to feel that your attacks on the monsters never do anything.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-03-26, 01:09 PM
Alternately, don't play D&D. The highly abstracted combat system and the completely non-real nature of HP makes it a very poor starting point for the kind of fight you're talking about. You may be interested in systems that use wound penalty tracks so that somebody who is worn down in combat is actually worn down, or ones that use combat maneuvers such that the way you fight has more impact than just the description you use while you're shaking the d20.

Trust me systems like L5R, d6 starwars or Shadowrun are just as rocket tag, even more so given how much more fragile everyone is.

quiet1mi
2010-03-26, 01:48 PM
Listen to episode 37 of the Order 66 Podcast... even though it is a different system they introduce "the list". I find very helpful for any game...