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Maeglin_Dubh
2010-03-26, 11:25 PM
A guy I know is running 4E. I dislike 4E, but getting to actually play is a rarity for me, so whatever.

Wondering what some good mobile combat, net and trident if possible, builds are possible with only the three core books (DMG, PHB, and MM1).

Really, any interesting martial build using those sources is appreciated.

Stats are 4d6b3. Starting at 1st level.

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-03-26, 11:36 PM
If you're going core-core (original three books only) this is going to be difficult. I believe that the PHB has no net or trident. If you get the Adventurer's Vault, there's a trident, I believe, but I still don't think there's a net.

As for classes, I'd go with a two-blade ranger, so as to dual-wield a trident and net, plus lots of mobile powers. If you forgo the two-weapon idea (at least all at once), you could also go with a rogue, except that they use light blades only for most melee powers, so you'd really have to give up on the Retiarius. But it's mobile martial melee.

Human would be a good race, for extra attacks, feats, etc. Half-elf would let you dabble in another class, and eladrin would grant teleportation, which is good for the mobile effect.

So if you're really going core-only, a net-and-trident Retiarius is going to be pretty much impossible, seeing as neither of those weapons are available. But, a human, half-elf, or eladrin ranger would be able to emulate that effect pretty well.

Grynning
2010-03-27, 12:08 AM
I highly recommend getting the character builder and maybe buying a month of DDI so you can download the updates. Nets have only been statted in Dragon Mag for 4th ed. Here's a quick "Retarius" Ranger I made using Martial Power 2's Marauder fighting style, which is perfect for the net and trident (thrown and melee dual wield mix):


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 1
Human, Ranger
Fighting Style: Marauder Fighting Style
Ranger: Running Attack

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 11, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 11, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8.


AC: 16 Fort: 16 Reflex: 15 Will: 13
HP: 23 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 5

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +6, Dungeoneering +7, Acrobatics +6, Endurance +4, Athletics +8, Perception +7

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana, Bluff -1, Diplomacy -1, Heal +2, History, Insight +2, Intimidate -1, Nature +2, Religion, Streetwise -1, Thievery +1

FEATS
Human: Manticore's Fury
Level 1: Net Training

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Throw and Stab
Ranger at-will 1: Marauder's Rush
Ranger at-will 1: Fading Strike
Ranger encounter 1: Two-Fanged Strike
Ranger daily 1: Skirmishing Stance

ITEMS
Net, Trident, Hide Armor
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Inyssius Tor
2010-03-27, 12:12 AM
If you're going core-core (original three books only) this is going to be difficult. I believe that the PHB has no net or trident. If you get the Adventurer's Vault, there's a trident, I believe, but I still don't think there's a net.

There is. Superior one-handed melee weapon; +2, d6, range 2/5; off-hand, heavy thrown; flail.

There's a feat that gives you proficiency and slows any enemy you hit with it, and three other feats to go with it. They work like the multiclass feats in the PHB, except instead of multiclassing into "rogue" or "ranger" you're multiclassing into "net user"; the other three feats I mentioned are power-swap feats--like Acolyte/Novice/Adept Power, except you get a special net-specific power instead of one from another class.

That's all from Dragon 368, though. (Specifically the feature on gladiator combat, not that it really matters.)

Gralamin
2010-03-27, 12:14 AM
There is. Superior one-handed melee weapon; +2, d6, range 2/5; off-hand, heavy thrown; flail.

There's a feat that gives you proficiency and slows any enemy you hit with it, and three other feats to go with it. They work like the multiclass feats in the PHB, except instead of multiclassing into "rogue" or "ranger" you're multiclassing into "net user"; the other three feats I mentioned are power-swap feats--like Acolyte/Novice/Adept Power, except you get a special net-specific power instead of one from another class.

That's all from Dragon 368, though. (Specifically the feature on gladiator combat, not that it really matters.)

Which has been Reprinted in Dragon Annual 2009.

Kurald Galain
2010-03-27, 04:27 AM
Wondering what some good mobile combat, net and trident if possible, builds are possible with only the three core books (DMG, PHB, and MM1).
Well, DMG and MM1 aren't going to help. Focusing just on the PHB, if you want good mobile combat, I can think of the following:


Ranger. Rangers are probably the most damaging in the PHB starting from high heroics, and have decent mobility powers, and are the only class that can effectively use dual wield in a PHB-only setting. However, playing a ranger is very easy and may be boring to some people - a ranger's combat turn can be summarized as "point at some guy, he takes damage, next".
Rogue. Likewise, striker with good mobility, augmented by sneaking. Be sure to read the several erratas to the stealth rules, though. Rogues have a few more tactical options and some more versatility than rangers.
Fighter. Not exactly mobile but very good at combat. Good with reach weapons, and good at taking the heat off your allies. To add mobility, play an eladrin.

Swordgleam
2010-03-27, 08:54 AM
I'd do a rogue with a trident and a lot of mobility-affecting and CA-granting powers, then fluff that the effects of those powers come from the net in your other hand.

Because what's tossing a net at someone? Getting them to move out of your way, or entangling them and giving you an advantage for your next attack. Plus, rogues have great mobility; I'd say they're probably the most mobile martial melee combatants (say that three times fast).

DSCrankshaw
2010-03-27, 11:05 AM
If you're interested in building a ranger, you might find this guide (http://community.wizards.com/charop/wiki/Ranger%27s_Handbook) useful. Make him Two Blade Style, and limit yourself to the PHB options. I'd suggest human, put your strength to 18, then Wisdom, then Dexterity.

Tiki Snakes
2010-03-27, 01:04 PM
Well, assuming you get access to what you need for access to Trident and Nets, I'd reccommend a few things.

If you want the Trident itself, it's in AV 1. Given the way things work, all that means is you need a single person in the group who has either the book or insider, so you can check it's stats a single time. It's a military weapon, and a spear. Probably doesn't go terribly well with rogues, in that respect. It is both versatile and heavy thrown, so for a no-feat-cost it's hardly terrible.

Nets are in a Dragon issue, as is the feat that gives you proficiency + slow on a hit. If you are taking this part, I'd reccomend either a fighter build that focuses on skirmishing-control, or a Warlord actually. Leader class, but very martial, they get you your trident proficiency, and as you aren't a front-line fighter (though you can hold your own) you'd be encouraged to move around a bit more, perhaps. With weilding two strength-based thrown weapons, one of which slows on a hit, (though none of the Warlord's powers are really throwing weapon friendly afaik), you'll have some nice tactical flexibility.

If you REALLY want to play up to the throwing side of the trident + net thing, then you're looking at a Ranger, ideally, to be honest. It's mixture of ranged and non-ranged powers as well as the various two-weapon related ones are the closest mesh for this. Especially in the PHB 1.
Rogue has some similar tricks, reguarding ranged and melee powers, BUT I don't know of any way to give them the ability to sneak attack with spears. Especially not in PHB1.

I'd be inclined to suggest Human, so that getting the net proficency doesn't eat up all of your feats at level 1. Again, doubly so with limited sources.

DSCrankshaw
2010-03-27, 01:53 PM
The thing is, this is the perfect design to use the new ranger at-will Throw and Stab. It's too bad that nothing beyond the PHB is allowed, else Grynning's design would be perfect. I'd recommend using Twin Strike rather than Fading Strike, though.

Asbestos
2010-03-27, 04:22 PM
I highly recommend getting the character builder and maybe buying a month of DDI so you can download the updates. Nets have only been statted in Dragon Mag for 4th ed. Here's a quick "Retarius" Ranger I made using Martial Power 2's Marauder fighting style, which is perfect for the net and trident (thrown and melee dual wield mix):


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 1
Human, Ranger
Fighting Style: Marauder Fighting Style
Ranger: Running Attack

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 11, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 11, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8.


AC: 16 Fort: 16 Reflex: 15 Will: 13
HP: 23 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 5

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +6, Dungeoneering +7, Acrobatics +6, Endurance +4, Athletics +8, Perception +7

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana, Bluff -1, Diplomacy -1, Heal +2, History, Insight +2, Intimidate -1, Nature +2, Religion, Streetwise -1, Thievery +1

FEATS
Human: Manticore's Fury
Level 1: Net Training

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Throw and Stab
Ranger at-will 1: Marauder's Rush
Ranger at-will 1: Fading Strike
Ranger encounter 1: Two-Fanged Strike
Ranger daily 1: Skirmishing Stance

ITEMS
Net, Trident, Hide Armor
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

This! A million times this! Seriously, 9.95? I've spent more on cigarettes and caffeinated beverages on the way to play a single D&D session. For it you're getting the ability to make a character using any and all published material for 4e.

Thajocoth
2010-03-27, 07:28 PM
Trident is in the Adventurer's Vault. Net is in Dragon, and you can multiclass into using a net. Both the net and the trident can be used either melee or ranged, as you can swing or throw either of them. The book limitation seams really odd to me, as 4e's balance doesn't change with new books, it only adds more options, and that's usually the reason people make restrictions. I can understand something like "No monstrous races" or "No divine classes" or whatever for story reasons, but book restrictions seem very odd to me here.

DSCrankshaw
2010-03-27, 08:10 PM
Trident is in the Adventurer's Vault. Net is in Dragon, and you can multiclass into using a net. Both the net and the trident can be used either melee or ranged, as you can swing or throw either of them. The book limitation seams really odd to me, as 4e's balance doesn't change with new books, it only adds more options, and that's usually the reason people make restrictions. I can understand something like "No monstrous races" or "No divine classes" or whatever for story reasons, but book restrictions seem very odd to me here.

I think it's usually 1) lack of books, or 2) new DM trying not to be overwhelmed by the options.

Besides, while the balance usually isn't thrown out of whack, there's still the occasional bit of overpowered content that hasn't been whacked down with the nerf bat yet. See, for example, the most recent half-elf article.

Maeglin_Dubh
2010-03-27, 09:01 PM
I think it's usually 1) lack of books, or 2) new DM trying not to be overwhelmed by the options.

Besides, while the balance usually isn't thrown out of whack, there's still the occasional bit of overpowered content that hasn't been whacked down with the nerf bat yet. See, for example, the most recent half-elf article.

It's actually both at this point. We're all new to 4E, and still mostly 3.5 players. Everything I run is, and will continue to be, 3.5, but sometimes I want to let someone else do the GMing. And our IT guy has the three core 4E books, so there we go.

Thajocoth
2010-03-27, 09:03 PM
I think it's usually 1) lack of books, or 2) new DM trying not to be overwhelmed by the options.

Besides, while the balance usually isn't thrown out of whack, there's still the occasional bit of overpowered content that hasn't been whacked down with the nerf bat yet. See, for example, the most recent half-elf article.

The good thing about just getting DDI is that it fixes all of that. Brand new things that are barely tested, if overpowered, usually get nerfed by the time they're added to the builder. No need for a lot of books, instead getting everything for one low price. And the options are all sorted well enough that it's not overwhelming.


It's actually both at this point. We're all new to 4E, and still mostly 3.5 players. Everything I run is, and will continue to be, 3.5, but sometimes I want to let someone else do the GMing. And our IT guy has the three core 4E books, so there we go.

Just remember... There are a lot more options out there. The system isn't nearly as limited as it will feel with just the PHB (and possibly the one page near the end of the MM if the DM lets you use those races.)

Draz74
2010-03-27, 09:12 PM
If you go Ranger and you don't have access to the Dragon Magazine multiclass "net user" feats, you should multiclass Fighter, so you can go Pit Fighter for your paragon path.

It's very thematic for a gladiator. And since Rangers tend to boost their Wisdom to very high levels, and get a lot of attacks, and L16 Pit Fighters get to add their WIS to damage for every attack, it's also rather powerful.

Thajocoth
2010-03-27, 10:14 PM
If you go Ranger and you don't have access to the Dragon Magazine multiclass "net user" feats, you should multiclass Fighter, so you can go Pit Fighter for your paragon path.

It's very thematic for a gladiator. And since Rangers tend to boost their Wisdom to very high levels, and get a lot of attacks, and L16 Pit Fighters get to add their WIS to damage for every attack, it's also rather powerful.

That's assuming you expect to play this character regularly for the next two years... I would actually advise against planning THAT far ahead. If you're playing the game long enough to hit level 16, you're likely going to GET access to the rest of the material, one way or another.

Maeglin_Dubh
2010-03-27, 10:36 PM
We're just doing the intro bit in the back of the DMG right now. No real plans beyond that.