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Evard
2010-03-27, 10:04 AM
It came to my attention that maybe if a class is more powerful then it should take more XP to actually gain a level in that class... Now I don't know how they did things in pre3.5 but I don't like the idea of a fighter and a wizard needing the same amount of experience to get better at what they do respectively. Everyone seems to agree on the tier system on here so (I may mess up on this since it has been a while since i read up on the tier system haha) I think using that would be a good way of changing the xp system.

to get to the next level of any class you need (your level) * (1,000)

[XP to next level]/[tier of the class wanting to gain a level of] = XP to next level

A party of three starts out with each 1 level under their belts. Fighter (T5), Sorcerer (T2), and Cleric (T1). To get to level 1 the...
Fighter would have to gain (1,000)/(5) = 200 XP
Sorcerer would have to gain (1,000)/(2) = 500 XP
Cleric would have to gain (1,000)/(1) = 1,000 XP

For third level (2) * 1,000 = 2,000
Fighter (2,000)/5 = 400 xp (needs 200 more to level)
Sorcerer (2,000)/2 = 1,000 xp (needs 500 more to level)
Cleric (2,000)/1 = 2,000 xp (needs 1,000 more to level)

This would allow martial characters to scale faster than magical character and may allow them to balance. This may not be perfect but is there a way to fix this up? Maybe make all tier 1,2, and 3 (some) classes progress on normal xp charts and let all tier 4 and 5 classes progress faster?

I know this would mess with CR of the fights but really every game I've been in the CR system gets thrown out the window (on paper it makes sense but in game.. psh)

Also I understand that you wouldn't want a healer to be a couple levels behind... But it really wouldn't hurt that much. Maybe wait till the mid levels and then start making tier 1, 2, and 3 need more xp to level? Since at low levels most classes are about even on the power scale.

Jack_Simth
2010-03-27, 10:07 AM
Actually, previous D&D versions did use multiple XP tables.

How do you handle Multiclassing and PrC's?

KillianHawkeye
2010-03-27, 10:17 AM
I can tell you from experience that having different XP tables for each class (or set of classes) is more trouble than it's worth. Simplicity means making stuff easier.

Riffington
2010-03-27, 10:21 AM
There are a few very key problems, that you'll need to work on.
First: you want the skill-characters to be the best at skills. But because of the way skills work in D&D, that means they have to be the highest level. Which means you need to weaken rogues so they can have the highest levels without being the best at combat. So you really have to redesign a bunch of classes to do this right.
Second: tier is versatility more than power. Adding levels adds power more than versatility.

Vangor
2010-03-27, 10:29 AM
As noted, previous incarnations of D&D had varying Exp values for different classes with Rogue I believe lowest at around 1,250 first level compared to Sorcerers at 2,500, but did not remain quite as severe a gap percentage wise. I would recommend you make the modifier on say half of experience necessary for the level only. X represents current experience needed per level, E represents new value of experience, Y represents amount of experience being modifier, and T represents tier of the class, for X/2=Y, (Y/T)+(X/2)=E

For a Fighter wanting to obtain second level, this would be 1,000/2=500, (500/5)+(1,000/2)=600. For fourth level, we have 3,000/2=1,500, (1,500/5)+(3,000/2)=1,800. Compare this to a cleric who would have the standard progression, or for obtaining first level the difference is 400 and for obtaining fourth level the difference is 1,200. Might still be a large gap, but lower level characters gain experience faster, and by 6,000 experience the fighter has just gained a level over the cleric and will be 1,000 experience ahead.

taltamir
2010-03-27, 10:38 AM
this is a really ban execution of a not so terrible idea. having multiple XP tables makes multiclassing impossible and is just a PITA to keep track of.

A much more straightforward method would be to simply increase what lower tier classes GIVE per level... if a fighter gave +2 bab and better saves and a bonus +5 HP and a feat every level it would certainly be much more attractive. Maybe throw in an SLA every few levels.

You could also assign LA to classes... example, tier number - 1 = LA (so tier 5 gives +4 LA)... and unlike regular LA make this LA NON purchasable and seperate from racial LA.

But the best solution is to just force players to play in the same tier... use t3 martial characters from TOB with tier3 arcane characters such as the warlock... or a party of wizard, druid, archivist, and artificer... etc...
And you can make "custom classes" by buffing up lower classes into higher tiers.

SilveryCord
2010-03-27, 11:11 AM
There is a much simpler solution that causes fewer headaches for game designers, DMs, and players:

If you think that a wizard's 2nd level abilities are worth 4 levels worth of experience, move those abilities up to level 4. Space out the abilities so that 1000 EXP is at a certain power level, 2000 EXP is at a certain power level, etc.

Of course, 'rewrite every class to be balanced' isn't a good solution. The solution to the 3.5 problem is not to try and fix the tier 1 classes with different experience rates or by arbitrarily gimping them in other ways; characters that swing between incredibly powerful and unusable do not make a fun game. The solution is to get players to choose all from one tier (tier 3, imo)