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View Full Version : Idea: Spellcasting as occasional gestalt levels



Lysander
2010-03-27, 02:41 PM
I want to run an idea by you for a low-magic campaign. What if NOBODY gets to be a magical class. Instead they have to pick from mostly non-magical classes. These level up normally based on xp gain.

During the game players can meet wizards, bards, outsiders, clerics, etc. that might be willing to teach them a bit of magic here and there. They can earn magical gestalt levels at the speed of plot. What kind of magic they learn would be based on personality mostly. A tricky rogue might start learning bardic music. A heroic fighter might start gaining favored soul powers. A wilderness exploring ranger might get druid levels. A monk might start unlocking psionic powers. Some players who don't want to be spellcasters might instead gain free templates or non-magic gestalt levels.

At high levels they'd still just have low level magic, but they'd be durable capable warriors. Magic would remain rare and special. What do you think?

Volkov
2010-03-27, 02:44 PM
So I'd take it that the true dragons are essentially gods on earth in your setting.

1stEd.Thief
2010-03-27, 02:46 PM
^^
you mean they aren't in your world?

Lysander
2010-03-27, 02:47 PM
So I'd take it that the true dragons are essentially gods on earth in your setting.

Absolutely. Dragons should be terrifying. Of course dragons would be very rare, and ones that are high level sorcerers even more so.

Totally Guy
2010-03-27, 02:50 PM
That sounds pretty clever.

I think you'd need to communicate this idea to the group before implementing it. You'd not want someone upset because they'd dumped a stat they didn't know they'd need. Or typecast someone into the healbot.

But it sounds fun to me.:smallsmile:

Kaiyanwang
2010-03-27, 02:53 PM
Like it! Very nice and original.

Just, watch out with the enemies.. make caster outsiders rare, as an example, if the players fight them, because they could think it's unfair.

At the same time, create a reason for wich they cannot be pure wizard, clercis and so and NPC can.

Maybe be too high level of spellcaster confines you in certain zones? Your mind crumbles? Deities intervene? Knowledges about being one are lost?

Volkov
2010-03-27, 02:55 PM
Like it! Very nice and original.

Just, watch out with the enemies.. make caster outsiders rare, as an example, if the players fight them, because they could think it's unfair.

At the same time, create a reason for wich they cannot be pure wizard, clercis and so and NPC can.

Maybe be too high level of spellcaster confines you in certain zones? Your mind crumbles? Deities intervene? Knowledges about being one are lost?
Why not take the warhammer approach and say that those who use magic too much get attacked by horrible monsters (A cumulative X% chance per use in one day)

absolmorph
2010-03-27, 03:07 PM
Why not take the warhammer approach and say that those who use magic too much get attacked by horrible monsters (A cumulative X% chance per use in one day)
A wizard would just cast Summon Monster _ for a meat shield (or have a few normal meat shields around) and kill it.

Lysander
2010-03-27, 03:13 PM
Like it! Very nice and original.

Just, watch out with the enemies.. make caster outsiders rare, as an example, if the players fight them, because they could think it's unfair.

At the same time, create a reason for wich they cannot be pure wizard, clercis and so and NPC can.

Maybe be too high level of spellcaster confines you in certain zones? Your mind crumbles? Deities intervene? Knowledges about being one are lost?

My explanation would just be that magic is very very very difficult. Each spell level is exponentially more difficult than the one below it, requiring decades of study to reach higher levels. Most sorcerers don't have the innate talent to ever make it past first level. Deities only dispense clerical magic to a small select group of their priests.

The PCs being able to learn magic on the side as it were is considered very impressive. It'd get a "the force is strong in this one" kind of reaction from mentors.

For the record, someone could still play a wizard under this system if they wanted to be an intellectual magic user. They could start as a level 1 wizard, then gain levels in a non-magical class with xp, and progress their wizard class with the gestalt levels. I mean, doesn't it make more sense that a low level wizard who left a magic university to fight monsters would learn how to FIGHT instead of researching new spells?

Last Laugh
2010-03-27, 03:14 PM
Why not take the warhammer approach and say that those who use magic too much get attacked by horrible monsters (A cumulative X% chance per use in one day)

IF an encounter is a punishment for excessive magic use it seems to me that it should actually pose a thread to a powerful wizard. Meatshielding isn't always effective, or possible.

I love the idea that every (magical) cleric is on a first name basis with their god!
Cleric: Hiya Pelor, wanna give me some undead smiting magic?
Pelor: Anytime Bob, wanna get a drink later
Cleric: Yay!

Volkov
2010-03-27, 03:14 PM
A wizard would just cast Summon Monster _ for a meat shield (or have a few normal meat shields around) and kill it.

The monster cleaves through your summon in one shot and drags you to the far realm.

Lysander
2010-03-27, 03:38 PM
Enemy npc spellcasters would be very rare. But they would be used occasionally as terrifying "holy crap" kind of encounters. Perhaps as a BBEG. The idea is not to get rid of magic but to make it a much more awesome force when its encountered.

Fortuna
2010-03-27, 03:43 PM
The monster cleaves through your summon in one shot and drags you to the far realm.

The player whines about the arbitrary death of his character that can't be avoided except by not using the most powerful part of his abilities.

Volkov
2010-03-27, 03:44 PM
The player whines about the arbitrary death of his character that can't be avoided except by not using the most powerful part of his abilities.

He is dragged out back and after a brief lull followed by the sound of a gunshot is never heard from again.

Flickerdart
2010-03-27, 03:45 PM
The monster cleaves through your summon in one shot and drags you to the far realm.
If you're going to fiat, then make it less heavy-handed. A significantly more flavourful solution is that the casting "spark" manifests in very few people, and even for them, there is a hard cap on abilities they could never rise above without the intervention of gods or Epic magic (there could have, at one point, been a single mage with Epic potential who actually lived to see that level of power). The aforementioned Gestalt levels are manifestations of that spark. Deities would obviously treasure worshippers who can channel their spells, which could also justify Clerics never or rarely "falling" compared to Paladins: their deity would rather have them on its side, so chastisement and a redemption quest are more likely than "hand in your badge".

Volkov
2010-03-27, 03:53 PM
If you're going to fiat, then make it less heavy-handed. A significantly more flavourful solution is that the casting "spark" manifests in very few people, and even for them, there is a hard cap on abilities they could never rise above without the intervention of gods or Epic magic (there could have, at one point, been a single mage with Epic potential who actually lived to see that level of power). The aforementioned Gestalt levels are manifestations of that spark. Deities would obviously treasure worshippers who can channel their spells, which could also justify Clerics never or rarely "falling" compared to Paladins: their deity would rather have them on its side, so chastisement and a redemption quest are more likely than "hand in your badge".

If you make a table for the percentages and show it to everyone, your players will know they are screwed. Great for conventions. Terrible at the home table.