[3.5] ECL5 Tripper build

[Darth Stabber]

So I am thinking about a tripper melee character, approximately like so

Half Giant
Fighter(EWP:spiked chain, monkey grip)
Psychic Warrior(Combat Expertise, expansion)
Psychic Warrior(Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, Call Weaponry)
Psychic Warrior(skate)

Stats(32 point buy, stat adjustments included)
Str 14
Con 14
Dex16
Int 13
Wis 11
cha 8

Half Giant gets to use large weapons
Monkey Grip moves up to huge weapons
Expansion moves the huge spiked chain to gargantuan.

I end up getting to use a Gargantuan spiked chain while expanded. even the huge spike chain gives a big zone of control.

now do I need a feat to make trip attempts as an attack of opportunity?
Also should I take flaw to get weapon finesse so I can dump str and get a higher wis for psywar powers?

[Runestar]

Monkey grip does not stack with powerful build.

Your str is too low (too many points sunk into dex). I suggest you go human for the bonus feat. Pure fighter, and rely on the wizard to buff you with enlarge person.

I recommend this thread for inspiration.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870774/Fighter-20:_The_34;Gatling_Chain_Gun34;_Tripper

[Kosjsjach]

Goliath Barbarian with Mountain Rage and the Wolf Totem ACF (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantcharacterclasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) (in Unearthed Arcana) would get you large size when you rage, +6 Str (total), and Improved Trip for free (trading out uncanny dodge).
Throw in some Fighter levels for feats, and you're good to go.

[Touchy]

Monkey grip does not stack with powerful build.

Your str is too low (too many points sunk into dex). I suggest you go human for the bonus feat. Pure fighter, and rely on the wizard to buff you with enlarge person.

I recommend this thread for inspiration.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870774/Fighter-20:_The_34;Gatling_Chain_Gun34;_Tripper

Actually I don't recommend that, because at-least with psychic warrior he is self-sufficient.

Edit: And on the next page (s)he this is mean't to not be a tripping build, this is mean't to maximize attacks, the author even says it's a very meld-able build.

[Darth Stabber]

2 lvls of psychic warrior is actually a good dip even for an otherwise pure fighters. Fighter18or16/psywar2or4 nets one more feat than fighter20 at the cost of 1BAB. Unless you are taking a lot of feats that have a requirement fighterX, or have a wisdom<11 it is a good deal.

The monkey grip non-stacking thing is a leading me back to human. So no gargantuan spike chain, but huge will do. Probably only take 4 levels in Psywar, and stick with fighter, and only delay my iterative attacks 1 lvl.

[Critical]

Hey, if you want to pump your damage by size, go monk, picking up the style variant which gives trip(or, perhaps, combat reflexes).

[Darth Stabber]

What is this monk you speak of? I know of no monk class. Is is a variant cleric? I don't believe there is such a class and would never play one if it existed, which it doesn't!

Besides I am not going for upping my damage size, I am upping my reach. Reach is more important for tripping than damage. I just keep guys held down until the rogue can SA their prone butts into oblivion. or just slowly chip them down on my own.

[Runestar]

Reach is not determined by the size of your weapon. A medium-sized character can wield a huge weapon, but still lack reach.

[Critical]

Ow, your in that position regards monk. Wrong, but there's probably no way I can change you from this stupid mindset. :smallbiggrin: If you want reach - get Willing Deformity - Tall, Inhuman Reach and go Warshaper later on.

[herrhauptmann]

So I am thinking about a tripper melee character, approximately like so

Half Giant
Fighter(EWP:spiked chain, monkey grip)
Psychic Warrior(Combat Expertise, expansion)
Psychic Warrior(Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, Call Weaponry)
Psychic Warrior(skate)

I end up getting to use a Gargantuan spiked chain while expanded. even the huge spike chain gives a big zone of control.
now do I need a feat to make trip attempts as an attack of opportunity?
Also should I take flaw to get weapon finesse so I can dump str and get a higher wis for psywar powers?

-Are you trying to be an AOO machine? Or just trying to dump enemies on the ground and hit them really hard? In either case, you really need a better strength to let you reliably drop enemies. Yes Expansion gives a strength boost, but that's not really enough I feel. What is it, 2 points per size category?
-Strongarm bracers let you wield larger weapons.
-"Heavy" weapons (gold or platinum, Magic of Faerun) increase weapon damage again. But requires extra magic, or a feat to do so. Psi Expansion lets you boost yourself 2 sizes at level 9 or something, for more damage.
-As a human with Jotunbrud (Players guide to faerun?) you get a +4 to opposed rolls IF it's advantageous. This is NOT powerful build, it does not increase weapon size. It also boosts your BAB and ML, because now you have no LA.
-By that point, gargantuan with chain, or huge with spiked chain, you've got more than enough reach for most games. So I think the extra reach of halfgiant (do they have reach?) is unnecessary.
-Check complete Rogue skill tricks. There's a few that let you stand from prone as a move or free action without taking an AOO. Now, if you fail a trip attempt, you can fall over instead of dropping your weapon, and stand up for free. Beats wasting power points.
-I sometimes see people claim you can make a trip or disarm attempt as an AOO, but can't remember seeing it written somewhere. Nor do I think there's a feat that allows it.
-Knockdown might help with that. Anytime you deal 10 or more points of damage, you get a free trip attempt. If you can put yourself over 10 points reliably, every AOO will have a chance to trip if you can smack the guy.
-Check out vexing/adaptable flanker. With the kind of reach you're going to have, (40 feet, more?) it should be a cakewalk to get/give flanking in any disorganized battle. Now, an enemy standing in a corner, can get flanked by enemies who are entirely in front of him. Your party rogue will love you for the extra d6's he throws.

[Tinydwarfman]

As others have said, drop the large weaponry, it does not increase your reach. Check out some previous builds like the Gatling chain tripper for good feats.

[Kosjsjach]

How's this for a ECL 5 tripper?

Goliath Barbarian (racial, wolf totem) 2/ Fighter 2

ABILITIES (32pts)
Str18+4(16) +6
Con14+2(6) +3
Dex14-2(6) +1
Int10(2) +0
Wis10(2) +0
Cha8(0) -1

PROGRESSION
1:Bbn1 [Power Atk], Mountain Rage 1/day
2:Bbn2 ACF:[Imp Trip]
3:Ftr1 [Imp Bull Rush], [Knockback]
4:Ftr2 [EWP:spiked chain]

[Runestar]

Also, your dex drops to 12 after expansion, which disables combat reflexes.

I like the idea of a goliath barb/fighter, but will probably try to squeeze in extra rage somewhere.

[Eldariel]

Also, your dex drops to 12 after expansion, which disables combat reflexes.

I like the idea of a goliath barb/fighter, but will probably try to squeeze in extra rage somewhere.

Definitely Extra Rage; with Mountain Rage on a controller, it's literally a must. Also, Psy War is awesome if it's your focus; if not, the two feats aren't really that good and without Wis (even with though), you won't have any PP to speak of, let alone Manifester Level to get proper quickened buffs.

So yeah, either go straight Psy War (with or without Slayer) or Barbarian/Fighter as showcased above. If going tripper, Knockback is unnecessary and Wolf Totem Barbarian is a must (as mentioned). Fighter gets you bonus feats and life is good. Invest in Str first and foremost, with Dex and Con as distant seconds; Wolf Totem circumvents the 13 Int-requirement.

[herrhauptmann]

Also, your dex drops to 12 after expansion, which disables combat reflexes.


Really? Wow, that ruins any attempt to be an AOO monster.

Halfgiant makes you large(2d6 reach 10). Expansion makes you huge(3d6 reach 15)/gargantuan (4d6 reach 20)
Willing deformity gives you a boost to reach, +5 I think.
Having a spikedchain doubles your reach, assuming it increased in size with you. So 50ft.
Strongarm bracers lets you wield a larger size weapon for more damage (but not reach, as stated). So 6d6, reach 50.
The 'heavy' weapon. 8d6, reach 50. (edit: Someone double check my stacking here)

You could always drop the chain, and just wield a greatsword. Even higher base damage, and you'll still have 25 feet of reach. Knockdown should still allow a trip attempt if you deal 10 points of damage.

[Eldariel]

Having a +2 Dex-item is a fine ECL5 solution to your Expansion-issue.

[Keld Denar]

Also, the reach bonus from Inhuman Reach don't multiply with a reach weapon, they add on at the end. Willing Deformity doesn't specify that, but it could be implied. Plus, its icky [Vile].

And yea, the Expansion vs Combat Reflexes conundrum has long vexed me. For you, I'd suggest Goliath Mountain Rage Barb2/Fighter2. Goliath's racial -2 dex is a bummer, but its better than expanding and losing your feat...

[Tinydwarfman]

For more size and ridonculous stats you could use the Half-Minotaur template.

[Runestar]

Halfgiant makes you large(2d6 reach 10). Expansion makes you huge(3d6 reach 15)/gargantuan (4d6 reach 20)

A half-giant is still medium sized, you are merely treated as large for a very limited list of effects.

So with expansion, you are large (20-ft reach), or huge if you augment it enough (30-ft reach).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Also, the reach bonus from Inhuman Reach don't multiply with a reach weapon, they add on at the end. Willing Deformity doesn't specify that, but it could be implied. Plus, its icky [Vile].

Read Inhuman Reach again, it specifies only that if your natural reach is longer for some reason, it adds 5 at the end. It even gives an example of a medium-size character with that feat and a longspear being able to attack targets 15 and 20 feet away. Besides that, Deformity (Tall) lists being medium size among its prerequisites, which sort of defeats the purpose.


If you can buy off your level adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) you can use a +1 LA race at +0 LA at a cost of 3,000 XP. You'd still be a level behind starting out, but you wouldn't be as far behind and you'd get more XP per encounter. You may even be able to have bought off a +1 LA and still come into the game at level 5, depending on how nice the DM is.

Definitely use the Dungeoncrasher Fighter variant from Dungeonscape. You'd lose your 2nd and 6th level Fighter bonus feats, but it's well worth it. Instead of Psychic Warrior, consider taking War Mind. You wouldn't lose any BAB, it grants a lot more powerpoints, and Sweeping Strikes is just amazing with Knockback and Dungeoncrasher. Consider something like Fighter 4/ Sanctified Mind 1/ War Mind 10/ Sanctified Mind +5, though it may turn out to be a bid MAD since you'd need Int 13 to get Improved Trip, Wis for your powers, and decent physical stats.

[Azernak0]

Weapon Finesse is generally not a good idea with a Tripper because Trip is based on strength. The level 2 power Strength of my Enemy will let you increase your strength every time you whack someone. Naturally, with an AoO build it gets to be devastating quickly.

[Brock Samson]

Consider, instead of a Spiked Chain, in I believe Oriental Adventures that's just the "chain" that does I believe 1d6 damage, but is otherwise identicle to the Spiken Chain. But, it does Bludgeoning damage. That means your friendly Wizard, or your friendly UMD'd wand or eternal wand (with heightened caster level for more monies) can get Great Mighty Wallop cast on it (Dragon Magic[?]) which is a third level spell, lasts hours per level, and increases the damage you do you up to I think 12d8 at caster level 20. If your DM approves Dragon Magic, and you think you can get access to that spell/wand.

[Brock Samson]

Oh, and in the MIC there's Bracers of Opportunity or something like that which can give you an extra Attack of Opportunity. And Bracers of Reach or something which 3/day gives you an extra 5 more feet of reach. Remember you can combine items by paying more, as they're both bracers.

[Human Paragon 3]

Human Barbarian 1 (Whirling Frenzy alternate class feature)
Fighter 4


Feats:
Improved Unarmed Strike
Combat Reflexes
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip
Defensive Throw

Use a guissarm or spiked chain if you can swing it. But with improved unarmed strike you don't need spike chain to threaten adjacent squares.

Frenzy gets you an extra attack every round and a boost to your dex instead of a minus to it. Since you're ECL 5, that extra attack will be very useful, since you don't have iteratives yet.

With defensive throw, every time somebody misses you in combat you get a free trip attempt. This gets you the most trip attempts for your buck (usually 3 per round, possibly more) even without AoO cheese.

Potions or a wizard friend can enlarge you.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Improved Unarmed Strike is a waste of a feat, just wear armor spikes.

[Human Paragon 3]

Normally I would agree, but improved unarmed is a prereq for defensive throw, which is NOT a waste.

[jpreem]

Ow, your in that position regards monk. Wrong, but there's probably no way I can change you from this stupid mindset. :smallbiggrin: If you want reach - get Willing Deformity - Tall, Inhuman Reach and go Warshaper later on.

Well had to have a monk rant. Spoilered it for common decency.

Poor poor monk no love for him/her. I have many times thought to make a tripper/grappler/disarmer monk - but the sad thing is you can make a better one from fighter( another less loved creature) because you can use the bonus feats for to get the same as monk bonus feats. PLus you can use armor and weapons. You really want a weapon for a tripper. ( Reach, can drop to avoid beaing tripped, and mmm the enchancements. You can use armor. You will have a full BAB. Sad think for tripper/grappler/disarmer monk theire opposed checks which need str and BAB. You probably have more str as a fighter anyway. (Dont need dex or wis so much). Probably you can make a monster monk with gratuitous use of splatbooks but mehh im lazy. PLus there are a lot of DM-s who are also lazy/scared/underequipped and want you to stick to as little books as possible.

I actually would suggest a fighter for this ECL 5 build. ECL 5 is low enogh for a fighter to be viable. Mainly i would choose fighter because im lazy :P
Take the trip tree, equip the guy with decent weapon and youre done.
Maybe you would like to take fighter4/1 whatever build ( always good idea to take even fighter levels :D). + bonus whatever, race/magic/feat for reach/size and str. You want to have a large zone for tripping and you want to succed also :D