Has anyone homebrewed rules to make all spell level's equal?

[randomhero00]

3.X

Like essentially taking the HD restrictions off sleep(et al) and uncapping capped spells, etc. While nerfing higher level spells to make them more in line with the rest. Probably changing spells per level as well. Anyways, point being to make the casting of color spray just as likely as maze or some such. This is mostly a question out of curiosity, not sure how it would ultimately affect balance... I think it would be neat though to only gain versatility with new spells rather than extra power.

[Foryn Gilnith]

What sort of thing are you looking for? This reminds me of psionics, perhaps with a minor refluff or adjustment, but I could just be misreading your request.

[randomhero00]

What sort of thing are you looking for? This reminds me of psionics, perhaps with a minor refluff or adjustment, but I could just be misreading your request.

It would be similar to psionics, but psionics 9th lvl powers/disciplines are still much better than 1st.

I mean literally, what if 1st level spells were just as good as 9th? It would require nerfing higher level spells and scaling low level spells.

Taking it further, perhaps make all spell levels available at lvl 1. Would require a lot of work though, but I think it'd be interesting. Of course melee would have to get something too, or everyone would have to play spell casters.

[Tinydwarfman]

Wouldn't work. Would require a re-write of every spell in the game, so that all spells unlocked new things that they did at level up like Phantom Steed. Also gives even more versatility to casters, unless of course you nerf them (as you should) when you re-write every spell in the game.

[Koury]

So something like:

Pew Pew
1st - Single Target, Ref for half, choose between Fire, Electricity, Cold, Acid
2nd - Can choose Sonic
3rd - Can make AoE
4th - Can choose Positive or Negative energy
5th - Can choose Force
6th - Can choose any two types
7th - Can target either Will or Fort saves
8th - Double Area, can exclude allies
9th - No save

Like that? Then you'd have a BC spell, a SoS/SoL/SoD spell, a debuff spell, a buff spell, etc, etc.

[Tinydwarfman]

So something like:

Pew Pew
1st - Single Target, Ref for half, choose between Fire, Electricity, Cold, Acid
2nd - Can choose Sonic
3rd - Can make AoE
4th - Can choose Positive or Negative energy
5th - Can choose Force
6th - Can choose any two types
7th - Can target either Will or Fort saves
8th - Double Area, can exclude allies
9th - No save

Like that? Then you'd have a BC spell, a SoS/SoL/SoD spell, a debuff spell, a buff spell, etc, etc.

Yeah, except I'd add different versions that fundamentally different things, like firing a ray vs. making small explosion, and at later levels give them the ability to choose between huge areas and small damage, or small with lots of damage. So have like 3 or 4 boom spells, the creation spells being one spell, the fog spells being one spell, polymorph line, etc. Buffs and debuffs are simply too varied and would have to be complied to not have double the amount of all the other types. Also massively reduce spells known. Actually this sounds really cool, nice idea OP!

[TroubleBrewing]

This is a pretty neat idea, but you can avoid a lot of the work by looking at warlocks. Granted, they don't get all of their abilities at first level, but all of their blasts and whatnot scale. you can take eldritch blast to 20th if need be. (sub-optimal, but still doable.) If you're looking for flavor over functionality, warlock is a good fit for this, IMHO. If you want functionality, better start rewriting spells now! :smalltongue:

[Zaq]

So something like:

Pew Pew
1st - Single Target, Ref for half, choose between Fire, Electricity, Cold, Acid
2nd - Can choose Sonic
3rd - Can make AoE
4th - Can choose Positive or Negative energy
5th - Can choose Force
6th - Can choose any two types
7th - Can target either Will or Fort saves
8th - Double Area, can exclude allies
9th - No save

Like that? Then you'd have a BC spell, a SoS/SoL/SoD spell, a debuff spell, a buff spell, etc, etc.

Check the Spiritualist from the expansion to Iron Heroes. It's not perfectly balanced by any stretch, but it's got a mechanic which is rather similar to what you've suggested here, and indeed which I rather like.

[Eloel]

So you're looking at the general 'MMORPG' feel, in that you get to spend 'skillpoints' on area/damage/etc. on your 'attacks'?
Or am I totally lost?

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Have a look at the spell system in Monte Cooke's d20 World of Darkness (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?cPath=134&products_id=50229) - it has casters build spells from their functional components, so that you spend points for the area, damage (or other effect), duration, range, etc.
The points cost comes off your daily total, and the cost is also the Spellcraft check DC.
It's very versatile, and has no Spell Level. You have to spend points (and thus increase the casting DC) to make the Save harder.

[Tinydwarfman]

So you're looking at the general 'MMORPG' feel, in that you get to spend 'skillpoints' on area/damage/etc. on your 'attacks'?
Or am I totally lost?

Naw, more like you can choose any of those options when you cast the spell.

[AmberVael]

So something like:

Fax's Sorcerer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103250)

Or

My Channeler? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39048)

(Note that my channeling class is- while I consider it a good concept- definitely in need of some heavy work. It was one of my first homebrews, and... yeah.)

[Riffington]

Also gives even more versatility to casters, unless of course you nerf them (as you should) when you re-write every spell in the game.

It would probably give less: they'd look more like warlocks.
Casters have so much versatility because they may have only 3 spells of each level, but there's no reason the 5th level spells and 4the level spells need to be related at all. Here you'd need to give more spells each level just to combat the fact that your fourth level and fifth level spells look near-identical.

It'd seriously weird the metamagic system, which is fine (could be a major improvement actually).

[Tinydwarfman]

It would probably give less: they'd look more like warlocks.
Casters have so much versatility because they may have only 3 spells of each level, but there's no reason the 5th level spells and 4the level spells need to be related at all. Here you'd need to give more spells each level just to combat the fact that your fourth level and fifth level spells look near-identical.

It'd seriously weird the metamagic system, which is fine (could be a major improvement actually).

Well just think about it. There are so many spells that are absolutes, and are high level because of that. Forcecage at 1st level? Flight? Flesh to Stone? Unless you remove or change a ton of spells, you just have too much good stuff too early, and craploads of different spells even when you combine them. Also, one spell would be just as good throughout their entire career, so you have to either give them warlock-like progression, or have them be able to do absolutely everything.

[Doc Roc]

Basically, we've (the penny dreadfuls) tried this a few times, and it ended in tears for reasons already mentioned. I really recommend just snaggaring psionics.

If you want compositional spell-casting, I have a unborked version of Fax's sorcerer laying around from where I was asked to fix it.

[JeminiZero]

I like M&M 2e in general. The spell system seems pretty well balanced to me. Basically there can be a single magic skill, which determines all your spells DCs. There are no spell levels. Instead, spells with nastier effects (like petrify or multi-target damage) have lower saving DCs/strength compared to less nasty effects (like single target damage). So you can try to hit the target(s) with something nasty, but it is less likely to be effective.

You spend points to acquire spell types (points that could otherwise be spent on other stuff like above said magic 'skill'), so you can have as wide or narrow an array of spells depending on what you want to trade off.

[Emmerask]

3.X

Like essentially taking the HD restrictions off sleep(et al) and uncapping capped spells, etc. While nerfing higher level spells to make them more in line with the rest. Probably changing spells per level as well. Anyways, point being to make the casting of color spray just as likely as maze or some such. This is mostly a question out of curiosity, not sure how it would ultimately affect balance... I think it would be neat though to only gain versatility with new spells rather than extra power.

Not done it myself but I think the most important thing to do would be to redo the whole slot system into a spellpoint system like psionics.

Take for example summon monster you would only need one such spell and the effect is based on the spellpoints you use.
Then again that is more sorcerer style so as a wizard you would need to memorize spells beforehand with a fixed amount of spellpoints ie I have the ability to cast one third level slot pre spellpoints so now I can memorize one spell using three spellpoints (summon monster (3) for example)

This would require an aweful lot of work though giving each spell effects based on spellpoints used taking away then redundant spells and balancing it . This way I think sorcerers would be a bit better of then wizards in the end they only learn the base spell and could use them as whatever slot they which on the fly and none of the spells they learn would become obsolete like it´s currently the case.

[Riffington]

Well just think about it. There are so many spells that are absolutes, and are high level because of that. Forcecage at 1st level? Flight? Flesh to Stone? Unless you remove or change a ton of spells, you just have too much good stuff too early, and craploads of different spells even when you combine them. Also, one spell would be just as good throughout their entire career, so you have to either give them warlock-like progression, or have them be able to do absolutely everything.

So Forcecage wouldn't be forcecage at 1st level (unless you gave a one round duration, which could plausibly be balanced). More like daze or slow or something. Yeah, for utility spells you sorta need to have varying effects as levels go up rather than just upping damage/duration/range.

[Lord Vukodlak]

It would be similar to psionics, but psionics 9th lvl powers/disciplines are still much better than 1st.

No, no they aren't most 9th level psionic abilities are actually not very good, the real good ones are discipline exclusives but the ones open any psion, tend to stink.