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TimoVonHelvete
2010-03-28, 07:22 PM
Hi,

I have a question concerning the Arrow Demon's special ability called Symmetrical Archery. Monster Manual III says:
"...when making an attack action, an arrow demon can fire one arrow from each bow at its normal attack bonus minus 2, and when making a full-attack action, it can fire one arrow from each bow for each of its normal iterative attacks (two arrows from each bow, each shaft at a 2 penalty)...The arrow demon takes no additional penalties for using multiple weapons as long as it is using only bows."

I'm not sure about the part in the brackets. Does it mean you can fire 2 arrows at once (similar to the Many Shot feat) but at all your iterative attacks or does it say the ability is limited to a total number of 4 attacks (2 with each bow)?

And the other thing. If the Arrow Demon is advanced to 12 HD he gets another feat. If I take Many Shot, is the demon able to do one Many Shot-Attack with each bow or only on with one?

Thanks a lot for any help!

FishAreWet
2010-03-28, 07:31 PM
Many-Shot is next to useless.

Basically, Arrow Demons work like this.

Assume BAB gives you +20/+15/+10/+5. This nifty ability lets you instead fire at +18/+18/+13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3.

TimoVonHelvete
2010-03-28, 07:38 PM
Sure. If it's 8 attacks, it wouldn't make any sense to take Many Shot. But what about that part in the brackets: (two arrows from each bow, each shaft at a 2 penalty)...
Why is there mentioned two arrows from each bow???

TimoVonHelvete
2010-03-28, 07:50 PM
And what about using Rapid Shot?

would it be:

+16/+16/+16/+16/+11/+11/+6/+6/+1/+1 or only one extra attack?

BenTheJester
2010-03-28, 08:03 PM
What if it is a Gestalt Ranger//Ranger Arrow Demon, so he can dual-dual-wield his dual-dual-wield, with bows?

Eurus
2010-03-28, 08:13 PM
Sure. If it's 8 attacks, it wouldn't make any sense to take Many Shot. But what about that part in the brackets: (two arrows from each bow, each shaft at a 2 penalty)...
Why is there mentioned two arrows from each bow???

Because, if I remember correctly, doesn't a normal arrow demon have a base attack bonus between +6 and +10? So on a normal full attack it would fire two arrows, but Symmetrical Archery instead allows it to fire two arrows from each bow on a full attack action. If its BAB increased to +11, it would fire three arrows from each bow.

I assume rapid shot would give it two extra attacks, one with each bow - symmetrical archery seems to be designed to essentially double the normal number of attacks it gets. You could argue for it only giving one extra attack though, depending on if you apply symmetrical archery before you apply any other abilities that give extra attacks. I'd say it's the DM's call.

Draz74
2010-03-28, 08:14 PM
Sure. If it's 8 attacks, it wouldn't make any sense to take Many Shot. But what about that part in the brackets: (two arrows from each bow, each shaft at a 2 penalty)...
Why is there mentioned two arrows from each bow???

I think the general consensus by strict rules interpreters is that the parentheses mean that's just the default for a normal Arrow Demon. So it's just an example, it doesn't apply to advanced Arrow Demons (or PCs abusing Polymorph effects :smalltongue:).

Escheton
2010-03-29, 03:50 AM
BEST (awakened) SKELLYS EVER!!!

Serpentine
2010-03-29, 03:55 AM
Sure. If it's 8 attacks, it wouldn't make any sense to take Many Shot. But what about that part in the brackets: (two arrows from each bow, each shaft at a 2 penalty)...
Why is there mentioned two arrows from each bow???My understanding is that, if he didn't have 4 arms, he would be able to fire 2 arrows in one round - not at the same time, one after the other. With 4 arms, he can still fire 2 arrows from each bow, in that round. One from each bow, reload, another one from each bow, on his turn. Awkwardly worded, but that's my understanding.

TimoVonHelvete
2010-03-29, 04:29 AM
I think you're right! Two from each for a normal Arrow Demon due to the base attack bonus of +10.

Thanks a lot for all your replies.