[3.5] Arcane Caster Races...

[Zovc]

I'm still not sure what class I want to play, but apparently the game I'm going to join is looking for an arcane caster.

So, I'm fairly sure I'll be using Intelligence or Charisma as a primary stat (with 32 point buy, if that matters). What good races are there for either those two stats? They seem to be few and far between. What good races are there for arcane classes that don't boost Intelligence or Charisma?

While I understand Wizard is probably the best arcane class, it just seems so bland to me. I'd rather play a Warmage, Beguiler, or Sorcerer, even if those are all considered worse.

I'm also going to ask about the possibility of playing as a Duskblade or maybe even a Psionic class. If I were to play as a Duskblade, what race(s) would you recommend? Would you recommend a particular Psionic class, what race would you recommend with it?

[*.*.*.*]

Dragonwrought Desert Kobolds

All other choices are inferior:smallbiggrin:

[Zovc]

Dragonwrought Desert Kobolds

All other choices are inferior:smallbiggrin:

Trying not to have books thrown at me. :P

[Irreverent Fool]

Trying not to have books thrown at me. :P

You should only get books thrown at you if you try to play a venerable dragonwrought or apply true-dragon templates to a dragonwrought.

If you are planning an arcane caster, beguiler and sorcerer are valid choices. Warmage should not be considered an arcane caster. They function as archers. There is little no no utility in their spells. I speak from experience. They're fun but you are basically only doing one thing.

If you happen to play a kobold sorcerer, they have some rituals which allow them to advance their spellcasting to normal full-caster (that is they will gain spells at the same rate as a wizard rather than lagging a level behind which is annoying).

obnoxious
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[Voice of Reason]

Never let anybody tell you that sorcerers are inferior to wizards! Wizards are certainly more versatile, and as such they have more cheese attached to their name, but sorcerers have plenty of power, especially in casual play. If you want a +0 LA, I'd go with the Spellscale from Races of the Dragon. Favored class sorcerer and +2 cha bonus. It also offers versatility from the daily meditations (range from select "bonus" spellcasting feats to smite evil).

Fun low-level optimization is a smite evil/good Power Word Pain for 3d6 damage/round as a level one spell. Of course, it requires your DM to let you use Power Word Pain; you're more likely to get books thrown at you. :smallwink:

[Irreverent Fool]

Never let anybody tell you that sorcerers are inferior to wizards! Wizards are certainly more versatile, and as such they have more cheese attached to their name, but sorcerers have plenty of power, especially in casual play. If you want a +0 LA, I'd go with the Spellscale from Races of the Dragon. Favored class sorcerer and +2 cha bonus. It also offers versatility from the daily meditations (range from select "bonus" spellcasting feats to smite evil).

Fun low-level optimization is a smite evil/good Power Word Pain for 3d6 damage/round as a level one spell. Of course, it requires your DM to let you use Power Word Pain; you're more likely to get books thrown at you. :smallwink:

Power Word: Pain really isn't that powerful in the hands of a player unless your enemies run away a lot, but a casual glance would suggest otherwise. What's nasty about it is that a particularly wicked DM will have multiple kobolds within a warren perform the ritual from Races of the Dragon that grants them a 1st-level sorcerer spell as a spell-like ability 1/day for the mere cost of a 100gp gem and 1 permanent hit point. Lasting effects like this are much more crippling to PCs than NPCs simply because NPCs tend to live about 3 rounds in most combats whereas PCs... well, they're PCs.

Lesser Aasimar (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) get +2 charisma as well. Bear in mind that you're not obligated to take the 1st "monstrous" level.

Also, you can't go wrong with human! Bonus skill points and a free feat are nothing to shake a stick at.

I think it bears mentioning that favored class usually doesn't mean much to a full-caster unless he's looking at some build to enter into certain non full-casting PrCs, unless your DM has ruled otherwise.

Grey Elves (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm) get +2 Int and -2 Str in addition to the standard high elf traits. It's one of the few (only?) races that gets bonus intelligence without a level adjustment.

obnoxious
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[gorfnab]

Beguiler (Shining South) Beguilers (PHBII) are fun to play.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Beguilers are wonderful. They're effective and fun out of the box from 1st level onward, with fewer game-breaking annoyances further down the road. Just note that this is because most of their spellcasting is [Enchantment] and [Illusion], and high level stuff often bypasses that. Haste is your friend. Whisper gnome is perfect here.

Sorcerers are also fun. I'd suggest nabbing Arcane Preparation and going Mage of the Arcane Order for a dash of versatility. Spells to keep in mind: Wings of Cover (RotD), Wings of Flurry (RotD), Arcane Fusion (CMage), Arcane Spellsurge (DrM). But most importantly, the Runestaff (MiC) is your new favorite item. Ask your DM about a customized Runestaff. Make it thematic, with all the "Heart of X" spells (CMage) as a Heart of the Elements runestaff or somesuch. Spellscale is nice, though the con hurts. Some sort of faerun elf (star elf maybe) gets a cha bonus. Otherwise whisper gnome, strongheart halfling, and human are all strong choices. Feats are important.

Duskblades are fun, but they aren't primary arcanists. They're your standard damage dealers with some utility on the side. The same goes for Warmage.

[Teron]

Gruwaars, from Dragon 317, make pretty good Charisma based casters. They're small fey with +2 Cha and Dex, -2 Str and Wis.

[Zovc]

I'm going through races, and I have a few questions...

Between Hellbred (Spirit) and Spellscale, who wins? I'm liking the flavor for both, but I'm thinking I like Hellbred's flavor just a bit more--both have -2 Con, +2 Cha is why I'm asking for opinions there. This would likely be combined with Sorcerer.

Deep Imaskari seem like pretty kool guise, but mostly so with prepared casters. Looking at the spellstore or whatever their ability was called led me to believe you could retain a first level spell that was metamagicked. Am I reading too far into the ability, or can you actually do that? These guys' ability wouldn't work with Beguilers, would they?

The lesser Planetouched races... is the only difference between them and their 'parent' races the fact that they are also considered humanoids? O.o

[FishAreWet]

And they don't get a LA.

[Zovc]

And they don't get a LA.

...those two things? That's it?

[FishAreWet]

Yes.

that's it.

[Zovc]

What abouts my other two questions? :P

[Eladrinblade]

You could play a wizard who also has high charisma and slide into loremaster as soon as possible and max out its charisma skills.

Or play a bard.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Bare in mind, my advice works primarily for wizards. That being said, I'm a fan of Dragonborn Fire/Grey Elves. That or Deep Imaskari, but they take a dex penalty. Other options include the aforementioned kobold shenanigans, the beguiler race, and/or half-nymph/phrenic template with LA buy-off.

If someone ever found a way to be a giant with +0LA through the wonders of warforged being templated to hell and back, you may also consider Primordial Giant.

EDIT: Musings on Primordial Somethingsomething Warforged: The potentiall obvious choice is either the Half-Ogre or Half-Minotaur template from Dragon 313 before throwing on Incarnate Construct from Savage Species, which then would allow you to grab Primordial from Secrets of Xen'drik with +0LA. Unfortunately, warforged can't normally have either template. Assuming that the Half-Minotaur would work, however, Str +0 (or +8, depending on the wording from Half-Minotaur) Dex -2 (or -4, again, depending on wording) Con +2 (or +6) Int +2 Wis +0 Cha +2.

Another possibility is qualifying as "large" via Powerful Build gained from the Stone-Boned template in Dragon 350. This would result in Str -4 Dex -4 (or +0 if you blow a feat slot on "Evolved") Con +4 Int +4 Wis -2 Cha +2. This is unlikely to be RAW-legal, just like the other one, due to the wording on Powerful Build.

The last possibility is to get an artifact Warforged component, or, really some other way to make a 'Forged long enough for Incarnate Construct to be slapped on top of it. This would simply result in a large creature with Str -4 Dex +0 Con +0 Int+4 Wis -2 Cha+2 and is probably the most likely to work under RAW. Of the three plans, I'm partial to this one in particular, but I do like the idea of having a stone-boned warforged "become a real boy.":smalltongue:

[Irreverent Fool]

Bare in mind, my advice works primarily for wizards. That being said, I'm a fan of Dragonborn Fire/Grey Elves. That or Deep Imaskari, but they take a dex penalty. Other options include the aforementioned kobold shenanigans, the beguiler race, and/or half-nymph/phrenic template with LA buy-off.

If someone ever found a way to be a giant with +0LA through the wonders of warforged being templated to hell and back, you may also consider Primordial Giant.

Easy.

Warforged

Incarnate Construct (Savage Species) (LA -2)
-Become humanoid, lose most warforged traits except stat adjustments

Half-Ogre (Dragon 313) (LA +1 with size increase)
-Considered a 'Giant'

Total LA: -1


Edit: Alternately, find a large construct and using Savage Species, determine its level adjustment. Do this until you find one with an LA of 2 or less and a single HD (that can be replaced with a class level) and apply the Incarnate Construct template. Anything larger than medium that has the template applied becomes a Giant rather than a Humanoid.

obnoxious
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[Thrice Dead Cat]

Easy.

Warforged

Incarnate Construct (Savage Species) (LA -2)
-Become humanoid, lose most warforged traits except stat adjustments

Half-Ogre (Dragon 313) (LA +1 with size increase)
-Considered a 'Giant'

Total LA: -1


Edit: Alternately, find a large construct and using Savage Species, determine its level adjustment. Do this until you find one with an LA of 2 or less and a single HD (that can be replaced with a class level) and apply the Incarnate Construct template. Anything larger than medium that has the template applied becomes a Giant rather than a Humanoid.

obnoxious
sig

I thought that didn't work due to the order of operations on the templates, but, this being RAW, probably would work. Of course, the LA bottoms out at +0, so I'd throw something like Draconic on top of it to mitigate the Con loss.

[TripperdeCleric]

Not sure on the race looking into it right now...but in general I believe wizards to be far better than sorcerers in general setup.

[magic9mushroom]

You're, in general (without Primordial Giant/Incarnate Construct/stuff or Magic-Blooded) not going to get more than +2 to Int or Cha without an LA or aging modifiers.

If you want high Cha, take a +Cha race and add on Magic-Blooded.

Of course, there are other things that are good for casters. An obvious example is free Sorc levels (Kobolds, White Dragonspawn + LA buyoff, anything that can take Loredrake, and the ubercheese Phaerimm).

[PhoenixRivers]

Not sure on the race looking into it right now...but in general I believe wizards to be far better than sorcerers in general setup.

While this is true, sorcerors get some advantages that wizards don't. Arcane Spellsurge, for example.

[Tytalus]

Easy.

Warforged

Incarnate Construct (Savage Species) (LA -2)
-Become humanoid, lose most warforged traits except stat adjustments

Half-Ogre (Dragon 313) (LA +1 with size increase)
-Considered a 'Giant'

Total LA: -1


That does not work. Applying Incarnate Construct to a warforged yields a severely nerfed warforged without any special abilities/qualities and LA+0.

Incarnate Construct's LA modifier is not "-2", it's "-2 (minimum 0)".

In order to get any LA use out of it, you will have to apply it to a construct with a positive LA.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

While this is true, sorcerors get some advantages that wizards don't. Arcane Spellsurge, for example.

To be fair, a smart wizard would use full-round action spells in place of metamagic'd spells with Arcane Spellsurge.