Worst gather information check ever

[TriForce]

i think we can all agree that elans attempt wasnt exactly too good :smallsmile:

so, for those who have a better idea: post them here! what SHOULD elan have said?

[Katana_Geldar]

I think this just shows his Elaniness, it's the sort of faux pas that he would make.

And it merely confirms my theory about him.

[DeltaEmil]

Nothing, because they didn't know anything anyway, so these people don't matter for searching Girard's band of gamblers.

[Occasional Sage]

I think this just shows his Elaniness, it's the sort of faux pas that he would make.

And it merely confirms my theory about him.

queue ominous music

Which theory is that?

music swells, suddenly stops just in time to hear:

[Katana_Geldar]

queue ominous music

Which theory is that?

music swells, suddenly stops just in time to hear:

I think Elan has Aspergers syndrome, but that's neither here nor there.

[Sereg]

I think Elan has Aspergers syndrome, but that's neither here nor there.

?!

Aspergers is associated with low Cha and high Int. Kind of the opposite of Elan.

Anyway as I have a really low charisma and no ranks in gather information, i don't see myself doing much better.

[Teddy]

I'm not really sure if it actually was an especially bad check, because he got what information he needed, namely that no one of the adventurers round that table had any usefull information regarding Girard. His "funny story" is a two part story, like the others we saw. First, someone starts by mentioning a funny event, and then someone else comments on what happened. Elan started well, as seen by their expressions, and when no one of them continues the story, he knows what he needs to know (unless they are canny enough to not tell the truth.

[Captainocaptain]

Say, "Yeah like that time those guys blew 10,000gp here at one time! What Morons!"
If no one chimes in with more... then "You guy's didnt hear? some guys blew like 10,000 gp on nothing, it was great."
OR
If someone chimes in, then say... "So where do you think those guys were from anyway?"
Couple of bluff checks, gather info, and a diplomacy, or maybe preform comedy.

[Ancalagon]

i think we can all agree that elans attempt wasnt exactly too good :smallsmile:

Actually, I think it wasn't that bad. Sure, maybe there could be better attempts but this one clearly and quickly does the job. Remember the order has no time but several cities with like dozens of locations to check... you cannot spend an evening "per group to check", you'd need like a week per inn.

So Elan's approach actually does have much more merit than some people around here seem to give it.

[Snake-Aes]

So Elan's approach actually does have much more merit than some people around here seem to give it.

It's a reasonable attempt, but it's...elanic. People here don't have very good sense motive checks.

[Ancalagon]

It's a reasonable attempt, but it's...elanic.

Well, I see nothing to be wrong with it. At least it's much better than "just rolling some dice". ;)

[megabyter5]

Aspergers is associated with low Cha and high Int. Kind of the opposite of Elan.

I beg to differ. While high Int is undoubtedly true, I've always considered Wis to be the stat that my AS provides a penalty to, sense motive in particular. I should know, my perform skill has been complimented quite often. Although really, it would make more sense for it to be a skill penalty towards sense motive, diplomacy, etc., than it would for an ability score thing.

If I don't seem very asperger-y in my posts, keep in mind that I spend a long time coming up with what to say here, which I assume allows me to take 20 on diplomacy checks.

[TriForce]

people, no offence, but my intention wasnt anything near a discussion about if its a good check or not, i just wanted to have a lot of funny alternative suggestions od what he said, not a discusiion about asperges :)

[Nimrod's Son]

In other words, you started a thread that essentially says, "Don't talk about what YOU want to talk about! Entertain ME!" :smallwink:

I mean, if you're not even going to get the ball rolling yourself, you can't really expect everyone else to follow suit.

[Ancalagon]

In other words, you started a thread that essentially says, "Don't talk about what YOU want to talk about! Entertain ME!" :smallwink:

I mean, if you're not even going to get the ball rolling yourself, you can't really expect everyone else to follow suit.

... AND he added a title that already moves the thread in the direction of the first half of his post and not the second (where he actually wanted to go). ;)

Apart from that... I still think Elan's approach isn't that bad (in this particular case).

[Fallbot]

I think we're missing the larger issue here. Was Elan morally justified in ruining their evening just so he could gather intelligence? :smalltongue:

[Nimrod's Son]

:smallsigh: Man, that one never gets old.

[Ancalagon]

:smallsigh: Man, that one never gets old.

... and it totally contributes to the discussion at hand in a very meaningful way. :smallsigh:

[Optimystik]

Actually, I thought his attempt was pretty good. If any of them had known anything, they would have gleefully chimed in with the info before realizing he wasn't a member of the party. Note how they're all smiling at him like he's their well-known comrade when he raises the question, and only later realizing they should be asking "um, who ARE you?"

I'm not sure if it can be called "a bad attempt" if you do it in the wrong place, any more than failing an Alchemy check because you're brewing potions in a ditch instead of a laboratory means you're bad at Alchemy.

[Ancalagon]

Actually, I thought his attempt was pretty good. If any of them had known anything, they would have gleefully chimed in with the info before realizing he wasn't a member of the party.

Actually, it's even better: even in case they (all of them!) make their bluff-rolls and don't give away that they DO know something about that they STILL cannot afford to not-react at all.
Even if they could disguise themselves as not-knowing in this spontaneous intersection by Elan they still had to find out what Elan knows.
The most simple and immediate reaction would be "What?" followed by "Ughh, stranger, that joke didn't really work, but who are you? Come, sit with us and tell us a few of your tales, the beer is on us, right, folks?"

That they just look at him in a bland way is a strong indicator they have no idea whatsoever what that guy could be talking about - which makes it rather certain to assume they really are not the Droids Elan is looking for.

[SadisticFishing]

Yeah, I agree with Optimistik. It was actually pretty well done, subtle, simple, and doesn't waste much time.

[Ancalagon]

Yeah, I agree with Optimistik. It was actually pretty well done, subtle, simple, and doesn't waste much time.

Hey, why don't you agree with me? I said that first!!!1

[NerfTW]

Yeah, that was a perfectly successful check. They just had no information.

It is possible that they are the guys, but again, plot trumps game rules. You can't just say "I rolled a 20, you have to tell me everything I ask about ever no matter how much you consider it a secret." So even if they were Girard's men, if they aren't going to mention it ever, they aren't going to mention it ever.


But I doubt it's them. Just because we see a group of unique characters doesn't mean they're important. This is just the first time we're seeing lots of adventurers instead of civilians. (Well, except in the prequel books) These are stick figures made using a template, it's not difficult to make them look unique compared to the townsfolk.

[SadisticFishing]

Hey, why don't you agree with me? I said that first!!!1

Because he said it more elegantly, and your name was too high to remember :P

Either way, the panel of smiles shows that it would have worked, or at least hints strongly at it.

[Optimystik]

This is just the first time we're seeing lots of adventurers instead of civilians. (Well, except in the prequel books) These are stick figures made using a template, it's not difficult to make them look unique compared to the townsfolk.

There are other places to see adventurers. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0357.html) :smallwink:

[NerfTW]

OOOh, yeah, forgot that. Another good example of a whole slew of unique looking characters.

[Teddy]

Hey, why don't you agree with me? I said that first!!!1

Actually, it was I who said that first (in this thread, at least). :smalltongue:

[Dvandemon]

I think Elan has Aspergers syndrome, but that's neither here nor there.

If anyone has Asperger's I think its Eugene Greenhilt

[Asta Kask]

?!

Aspergers is associated with low Cha and high Int. Kind of the opposite of Elan.

Anyway as I have a really low charisma and no ranks in gather information, i don't see myself doing much better.

I'm thinking more about Williams Syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_syndrome) myself.

[NerfTW]

You know, sometimes a jerk is just a jerk.


And Eugene Greenhilt is a jerk. No need to ascribe a mental disorder to him, he's just not a nice person.

[Ancalagon]

You know, sometimes a jerk is just a jerk.

Which is not only true for Eugene but also for Giarard. Most people who are jerks or idiots or just plainly unfriendly or stupid don't have a mental disorder. They are plainly jerks, idiots, unfriendly, rude, stupid...

[Jagos]

I don't know if we have enough info on Girard to call him a jerk.

His problem is the fact that he lost a good friend in Kraagor and hated Soon with a passion. Which is understandable given how close they were. Otherwise, we need more information to see how he treats his henchmen and others, especially Serini.

[Shale]

Williams Syndrome? Have you ever met somebody with Williams? Because they're not taking any ranks in Tumble, that's for damn sure.

He's just a dumbass, and Eugene is a jerk. It's possible to be mentally or socially subpar without having a labeled disorder.

[RecklessFable]

As gather info checks go, it wasn't bad. What matters is that he was able to discern that they didn't know anything and move on in an efficient manner.

Elan has demonstrated a certain intuition for social situations without necessarily knowing the "right thing to say" and then get by purely on his friendly charm.

[Spiky]

I don't know if we have enough info on Girard to call him a jerk.

His problem is the fact that he lost a good friend in Kraagor and hated Soon with a passion. Which is understandable given how close they were. Otherwise, we need more information to see how he treats his henchmen and others, especially Serini.

But his hatred for Soon was bigotry. That's pretty much the basis for so many using words like jerk to describe him. The reason he blames Soon for the death of Kraagor is the bigotry, not the inverse.

And I definitely agree with the pro- group above. The first thought in my mind was that Elan is once again displaying some usefulness. This is a pub or whatever. He slipped into the conversation and used a subtle means to learn what he needed to learn. Not once did he say something incoherent or completely inappropriate to their situation.

[Kish]

I don't know if we have enough info on Girard to call him a jerk.
Well, let's see. He assumed that Soon would very quickly break an oath which Soon kept religiously all his life. Based on that incorrect assumption, he set a bomb for anyone who might ever come to the coordinates he gave Soon, and attached to his taunting, anti-religious message the information, "Serini has the information you're looking for."

We have more than enough information on Girard to call him either an idiot (for assuming his trap could not possibly blast anyone but Soon or a fascist minion of Soon's, there for the worst of reasons, and yet still either unwilling to torture Serini for information or unable to find her), or a monster (for recognizing that the trap might blow up someone other than STFTWOR, but not caring). At least one, and arguably both, of those also incorporates the entire concept "jerk."

[TheYoungKing]

There are other places to see adventurers. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0357.html) :smallwink:

Anyone else notice that face tattoo?