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RagnaroksChosen
2010-03-29, 09:31 AM
Hello playgrounders,

We are currently plotting our next game in my group. One of my players had an interesting character concept. That i am having trouble fitting into mechanics.


His concept is a Paladin whos order fell into barbarism. Not fell as in fell from grace just that the society he comes from fell.
He was trying to figure a way to play a paladin/barbarian thing. Though the requirement as per his back ground, or soon to be back ground was that he started off as a more traditional paladin. I couldn't think of any barbarian esc prc's. He's i belive planning on playing a human or an elf... Though im not sure about the elf.
I don't know where he wants to sit on the alignment spectrum i believe he wants to play up the LG which makes actual barbarian levels hard to use, though im not 100% sure so i would take sugestions for CG or LG.
I am aware of the paladin of freedom concept in UA.

Any way starting level is 10
books allowed:
Core (aka SRD minus UA/EPIC)
Races of books
Complete books
Frostburn
sandstorm
stormwreck
minitures handbook
dragon magic
dragon compendium(for classes only, mabye feats on a case by case basis)
dragonomicon

Band stuff:
frenzied beserkerk,drow, polymorph, any underdark race,samuri, shugenja.
We have a limit of nothing with an la above +2.

I plan to run City of the spider queen. Module with a more heavy RP element to it. As my players have never run a module that wasn't just a dungeon crawl.

Any ways Ideas and what not would be helpfull. He does have a back up idea if I can't figure it out.

Optimystik
2010-03-29, 09:36 AM
Does he know of the Champion of Gwynharf PrC in BoED? It's a PrC for good barbarians that gives them Detect Evil, Smite, and spells that they can cast while raging. That might be "Paladin-ish" enough for him without breaking out UA.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-03-29, 09:41 AM
Does he know of the Champion of Gwynharf PrC in BoED? It's a PrC for good barbarians that gives them Detect Evil, Smite, and spells that they can cast while raging. That might be "Paladin-ish" enough for him without breaking out UA.

I thought about that though due to another players repeated abuses of BOED i'd prefer not to allow it.

marjan
2010-03-29, 09:43 AM
If you are DM, you might want to allow him to take Half-orc paladin sub-levels from RoD even if he is not half-orc. He'll get Righteous Fury instead of Smite Evil, which is similar to rage.

There is also Holy Liberator from CD, which is pretty much CG paladin, though this won't help if he wants to start as paladin.

Optimystik
2010-03-29, 09:45 AM
I thought about that though due to another players repeated abuses of BOED i'd prefer not to allow it.

Apologies if it derails the thread, but you've piqued my curiosity now. How does one abuse BoED?

RagnaroksChosen
2010-03-29, 09:45 AM
If you are DM, you might want to allow him to take Half-orc paladin sub-levels from RoD even if he is not half-orc. He'll get Righteous Fury instead of Smite Evil, which is similar to rage.

There is also Holy Liberator from CD, which is pretty much CG paladin, though this won't help if he wants to start as paladin.

Hmm Holy liberator Sounds interesting How is it power wise?

Yukitsu
2010-03-29, 09:49 AM
Apologies if it derails the thread, but you've piqued my curiosity now. How does one abuse BoED?

Starmantle cloaks and evasion, mostly.

Person_Man
2010-03-29, 09:49 AM
How about Ashworm Dragoon, Aglarondan Griffin Rider, or Knight of the Iron Glacier? You could roleplay finding a new mount as part of the Paladin's new connection to nature.

You might also want to consider Paladin of Freedom, Frostrager, Fist of the Forest, and Deepwarden.


Apologies if it derails the thread, but you've piqued my curiosity now. How does one abuse BoED?

Starmantle Cloak: Immunity to non-magical weapons, and DC 15 Reflex Save to take half damage from magic weapons. BoED pg 116, 132,000 gp

Soulfire: Immune to death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects. BoED 112, +4 Armor Bonus

Retributive Amulet: Every time you take melee damage, that damage is split 50/50 between you and the attacker. BoED pg 116, 56,000 gp

Banishing weapon enhancement: Extraplanar creatures must Save or be sent back to their home plane. Pretty much an auto win button against summoned enemies, demons, devils, elementals, and many others. +3 bonus, Book of Exalted Deeds pg 113.

Paralyzing weapon enhancement: Any creature hit must Save or be paralyzed. They get a new save every round, but by then they should be Coup de Graced. +2 bonus, Book of Exalted Deeds pg 113.

Ring of Affliction: Any natural or unarmed attack forces enemies to Save or suffer an Affliction of your choice. Essentially, this deals d3ish ability damage to any one stat that you want. Evil enemies take d3ish + their Cha bonus ability damage to a stat of your choice. The Save DC isnít that impressive, but it applies to every attack. 72,000 gp, Book of Exalted Deeds pg 115.

Saint (Template): +2 Con, +2 Wis, +4 Cha, Fast Healing = 1/2 HD, DR (improves with HD), Circle of Protection, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, Wis bonus to AC, Fire Resistance 10, Immunity to Acid, Cold, Electricity, and Petrification, and a bunch of other perks. Although the +2 LA is a big investment, the special abilities that this template grants are ridiculous. Book of Exalted Deeds.

Ancestral Relic: Pick one item (usually a weapon). You can sacrifice treasure to improve that item, bypassing the need to sell stuff at the standard 50% mark down, and then find someone to improve it. Assuming your DM plays using standard wealth by level and doesnít short change you because he knows you have this feat, this is a great choice for long running campaigns. Book of Exalted Deeds pg 39.

Intuitive Attack: With simple or natural weapons you may use your Wis mod in place of your Str mod on attack rolls. Good choice for any Wis based melee build. Book of Exalted Deeds pg 44.

Resounding Blow: Whenever you deal a critical hit to an Evil creature in melee, they must Save or Cower for 1 round. With a high crit range weapon, this pretty much means that 1 or more non-immune Evil enemy will Cower every round. Book of Exalted Deeds pg 45.

Apostle of Peace: Basically the Good version of Ur-Priest. The only down side is that you have to take a bunch of Vows, including Non-Violence. Book of Exalted Deeds.

There's a lot more, I just got tired of cutting and pasting from previous threads.

Also, ninjas.

Telonius
2010-03-29, 09:51 AM
Is he really looking for the ability to Rage, or is he thinking more of a guy who rides the wilderness? If it's the latter I think he might be looking for more of a barbarian than a Barbarian. If the society fell, that sounds more like a Paladin/Ranger (or even Paladin/Rogue) concept. Devoted Tracker (for Ranger) or Devoted Inquisitor (for Rogue) would allow for multiclassing without XP penalty. Otherwise, I don't see any problem with him just having a wilderness-flavored Paladin. I'd let him swap out Knowledge Nobility for a more suitably wilderness-oriented class skill.

marjan
2010-03-29, 09:51 AM
Hmm Holy liberator Sounds interesting How is it power wise?

It's pretty crappy. Iron will as prerequisite plus 5 ranks in skill that is hard to get as class skill with full base attack class. And abilities are similar to that of paladin.

AtwasAwamps
2010-03-29, 09:52 AM
I throw in my half-orc paladin substitution level chip. Itís very entertaining and as the DM you can fluff it however you want.

Personally, I find Holy LiberatorÖcrappy. Itís a nice idea, but in general it just doesnít do much. Iím AFB, but if I recall, it basically is a PRC that says ďHave some paladin class featuresĒ and then wanders off. It does have to be Chaotic Good, if I recall. Fairly weak if I remember correctly, but Iím not sure I do.

A Champion of Gwynharrawyf is a nice class for a Barbarian, but will require some refluffing (the worship of the Eladrin is written into the classes fluff). Itís not really heavily abusive unless you rule Imperious Command works for every single intimidate check (even when they arenít demoralize checks specifically), which transforms its ďIím raging and scaryĒ ability into a chance to lock down an entire encounter.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-03-29, 09:56 AM
How about Ashworm Dragoon, Aglarondan Griffin Rider, or Knight of the Iron Glacier? You could roleplay finding a new mount as part of the Paladin's new connection to nature.

You might also want to consider Paladin of Freedom, Frostrager, Fist of the Forest, and Deepwarden.

Hmm fist of the forest/deepwarden are two i need to look at thanks for th ideas.


Telonius: Um thats a good question I did sugest Ranger to him orignaly as it sounded more to taste. Let me see if i can find out from him if he wants rage or not.

Riffington
2010-03-29, 09:57 AM
It's going to be kinda tough being an ordinary Paladin in that module anyway. Too many "lesser of two evils" choices... but this guy's order fell into barbarism anyway.
Would you let him take Ronin instead of Paladin? (I know it's a prc but he's taking barbarian levels anyway so it could balance out mechanically) - as if he were once Paladin but retrained to Ronin
Ranger is not bad as a "Paladin-like" class.
Nor is cleric ;)

Deth Muncher
2010-03-29, 10:01 AM
Sohei, anyone?

And yes, I know that's not in the books allowed, but the WotC website has an update for Oriental Adventures, which SHOULD have the info in it, I don't remember.

Optimystik
2010-03-29, 10:08 AM
Starmantle cloaks and evasion, mostly.

That's a nice combo, but hardly broken. It's not that hard to muck up an enemy's reflex save or disrupt a magic item, especially by the time they have access to 6th-level spells or have the WBL to afford a 132k gp cloak.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-03-29, 10:17 AM
It's going to be kinda tough being an ordinary Paladin in that module anyway. Too many "lesser of two evils" choices... but this guy's order fell into barbarism anyway.
Would you let him take Ronin instead of Paladin? (I know it's a prc but he's taking barbarian levels anyway so it could balance out mechanically) - as if he were once Paladin but retrained to Ronin
Ranger is not bad as a "Paladin-like" class.
Nor is cleric ;)

I have faith in his rp ability in the mod. I'm not sure if I am going to let him take barabrian levels I want to see how many options there are.
Currently my sugestion for him was paladin 5 ranger 5 with devoted tracker. though I had mentioned an uber mount which he wasn't realy interested in as a mount per say. but more of using it as an AC. Which i would have no problem letting him use the AC as a base creature vs a horse.

Though ronin is a good idea. I may need to look into that as well.


its not so much ranger instead of paladin but ranger instead of barbarian.


If he was an elf it would be easyer as i would just sugest paladin to wildrunner.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-03-29, 10:42 AM
ok so rage doesn't matter to the player. he just wants that feral feal so ranger i guess could work. Any other prcs from the sources listed that i could sugest?

marjan
2010-03-29, 12:00 PM
If he goes with the elf, Wildrunner from RotW is solid choice.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-03-29, 12:01 PM
ya that is one of my suggestions..

Escheton
2010-03-29, 12:02 PM
sohei is actually perfect, it already has the working for a order thing, has a sweet ragelike ability and generally feels like a paladin barbarian, with a monksplash perhaps because they are fairly fast and mobile

RagnaroksChosen
2010-03-29, 12:03 PM
where is that from?

Person_Man
2010-03-29, 12:17 PM
Sohei is from Oriental Adventures, and it's crunch is garbage.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-03-29, 12:25 PM
Sohei is from Oriental Adventures, and it's crunch is garbage.

??
How so. Though i prolly won't allow it seeing as it is oriental adventures.. but whats wrong with it?

Person_Man
2010-03-29, 01:16 PM
??
How so. Though i prolly won't allow it seeing as it is oriental adventures.. but whats wrong with it?

I'm AFB, but IIRC it has 3/4 BAB, half-casting from a mediocre list, the Frenzy ability (weird mix of Rage and Flurry of Blows), Mettle, and a small number of bonus feats from a limited list.

Lack of full BAB means no Power Attack. The Frenzy bonus, while nice, is pretty small and usable a limited number of times per day. Mettle is situationally useful (Poison, Disease, a small number of spells), but much less useful then Evasion. But the biggest offender is the large number of dead levels where nothing is progressed except for the low level spells (a problem shared by the Paladin and Ranger).

So you basically end up with a weird Monk/Paladin combination without the best parts of each class. Not exactly a great combination, from a crunch point of view.

Yukitsu
2010-03-29, 01:54 PM
That's a nice combo, but hardly broken. It's not that hard to muck up an enemy's reflex save or disrupt a magic item, especially by the time they have access to 6th-level spells or have the WBL to afford a 132k gp cloak.

It usually comes tied to some degree of making sure others can't do that to them.

AbyssKnight
2010-03-29, 02:07 PM
Singh Rager, also from Oriental Adventures.