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View Full Version : Psionics-based choice of race, now with items



Trekkin
2010-03-30, 03:43 AM
I am attempting to make a shaper, and I can't decide on a race. I've narrowed it down to three:

1. Kalashtar, for the embedded quori shards.
2. Psiforged/Warforged, for the various types of psionic-flavored warforged components.
3. Primordial Deep Half-Giant Captured One Incarnate Construct...this bizarre abomination gets a +6 to Int.

Has anyone had any experience with kalashtar/warforged only items, that I might more intelligently compare them to the more constant benefits of +6 to Int?

IthilanorStPete
2010-03-30, 06:45 AM
Question: where is the Half-Giant template from?

Greenish
2010-03-30, 06:48 AM
Question: where is the Half-Giant template from?Are you sure one even exists?

Cyclocone
2010-03-30, 07:05 AM
Question: where is the Half-Giant template from?

XPH. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/halfGiant.htm)

The message you have entered is too concise. Please prolixify your message to at least 10 characters.

Greenish
2010-03-30, 07:08 AM
XPH. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/halfGiant.htm)That's not a template. I assumed he italicized the word "template" to indicate that he wants to know the source of the template, not the race.

IthilanorStPete
2010-03-30, 07:25 AM
Unless it's the base race, but the wording the OP used seems to indicate not. I'm trying to work out what order everything's applied in.

AslanCross
2010-03-30, 07:27 AM
I'd go with Kalashtar. The bonus PP adds up.

Gnorman
2010-03-30, 07:35 AM
Warforged, all the way. Those various immunities may not mean much in terms of your intellect, but being a theoretically-immortal robot man with the power to heal himself efficiently, telekinetically toss around poisoned greatswords, and build his own army of similar-looking ectoplasmic soldiers.

The items themselves aren't exactly anything to write home about, but being a Warforged means not having to deal with so many mundane annoyances and dangers that all those other puny... breathers will have to deal with. Poison. Disease. Sneak attacks. Food. Water. Air. Et cetera.

A few easy early-level 'forged shaper tricks: Adamantine Body. No failure chance for manifesting, 18 AC at first level. Vigor + Share Pain - 'nuff said (you can do it as a Kalashtar, but the efficiency of Psionic Repair Damage makes it more useful). Greater Concealing Amorpha gives you nice concealment - though you might be a ponderous, clanking machine-man, you're going to be hard to hit and even harder to hurt.

Plus, you get to look like this:
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs47/i/2009/230/a/a/Clockwork_Engineer_Path_by_DaveAllsop.jpg

Trekkin
2010-03-30, 11:05 AM
Sorry for the confusion. With regard to templates, a Half-Giant with the Deep and Primordial templates applied, followed by the Captured One template, followed by the Incarnate Construct template.

IthilanorStPete
2010-03-30, 11:20 AM
Hmm...where's the Deep template from?

Siegel
2010-03-30, 11:43 AM
What about Psyforged ?

Trekkin
2010-03-30, 02:09 PM
1. Deep is from a dragon mag on PC race variants that bumps Int by two.
2. Psiforged are warforged; I would probably take the feat if I went 'forged so I could get things like power crystals.

Quirinus_Obsidian
2010-03-31, 09:39 AM
1. Deep is from a dragon mag on PC race variants that bumps Int by two.

Care to share which dragon mag #? Thanks in advance trekkin :smallcool:

Trekkin
2010-03-31, 12:46 PM
Happily. Deep, along with several other racial variants, is in Dragon 306. Most of them are just +2/-2 and ancillary things. Of course, the only one that bumps Int is also the only one with an LA.

arguskos
2010-03-31, 12:49 PM
And what's the Captured One template (and source)? Never heard of that one.

Trekkin
2010-03-31, 01:12 PM
Captured One is from MM2, I believe. It's intended to be applied to a creature taken over by a Ragamoffyn, and, usefully, makes them a Construct but leaves their stats alone, unlike Effigy, which removes your Con and Int scores. Thus, you hit them with Incarnate Construct and you have a humanoid with identical stats but 2 fewer LA.

My question is, how long could you do this? Couldn't you simply chuck a creature into a ragamoffyn and cast Awaken Construct on it (making it an Incarnate Construct) over and over to eventually work its LA to zero?

arguskos
2010-03-31, 01:15 PM
Oh, right, the Ragamoffyn template. Uh, as for looping it, I guess it's probably possible to do forever, if very very cheap.

Trekkin
2010-03-31, 01:21 PM
Of course, if it were possible to find a 0 LA way of making a Warforged any size other than Small or Medium for the purposes of applying templates, this becomes a nonissue.

Gnorman
2010-03-31, 05:28 PM
Is the convoluted, incredibly cheesy templates-stacked-like-jenga-blocks process really necessary? I mean, not to be a buzzkill, but that's one hell of a roleplay justification (even though I'm a shameless optimizer, some things just go too far for me) for something that won't really offer as much benefit as you think it will. Shapers probably need INT less than any other psion - their powers include a handful of save-or-dies, yes, but they're mostly about creative use of Minor/Major Creation, Fabricate and Astral Construct, all of which are very light both on PP consumption and INT pumping requirements. So you can get by with a modest INT - the class is dependent upon the player's creativity, rather than the character's mathematical advantages.

Where's Lycanthromancer when you need him?

Trekkin
2010-03-31, 06:05 PM
I know I don't need the Int, but I wanted a really smart character is all. I solved it with Green Ronin's Savant and Miniature templates.

Lycanthromancer
2010-03-31, 07:01 PM
Is the convoluted, incredibly cheesy templates-stacked-like-jenga-blocks process really necessary? I mean, not to be a buzzkill, but that's one hell of a roleplay justification (even though I'm a shameless optimizer, some things just go too far for me) for something that won't really offer as much benefit as you think it will. Shapers probably need INT less than any other psion - their powers include a handful of save-or-dies, yes, but they're mostly about creative use of Minor/Major Creation, Fabricate and Astral Construct, all of which are very light both on PP consumption and INT pumping requirements. So you can get by with a modest INT - the class is dependent upon the player's creativity, rather than the character's mathematical advantages.

Where's Lycanthromancer when you need him?Err...right here.

Gnorman is right. Shapers are a blast to play if you're into creative use of flexible abilities, and all you REALLY need is 19 Int by level 17 (to get those 9th level powers), but if you play them right, you don't even really need that (but who doesn't want a monstrous Int score on a psion)?

I don't want to have to retype everything, so here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8142697&postcount=9).

Trekkin
2010-03-31, 08:03 PM
Thanks Lycanthromancer. I put together what I was looking for with Green Ronin's miniature and savant templates, but yes. Shaper is perhaps one of the least Int-dependent psions as long as you have Int 19 by the time you need it.

Lycanthromancer
2010-03-31, 08:09 PM
Thanks Lycanthromancer. I put together what I was looking for with Green Ronin's miniature and savant templates, but yes. Shaper is perhaps one of the least Int-dependent psions as long as you have Int 19 by the time you need it.Because shapers are so flexible and don't require nearly the pp that other manifesters do (though psychic warriors come close, if you play them right, believe it or else not), if you find that you don't need any of the higher level powers, feel free to multiclass out to something else that will improve your flexibility and shore up your weaknesses, such as incarnate or binder or swordsage or factotum or some non-manifesting PrC (such as chameleon). After all, you likely won't need THAT many power points, as the only things you'll really need lots of power points for are astral constructs, and if you have all the tasty powers you want already...well then.

And this is rather strange, considering that it's a full-manifesting class.