Expected Weapon Enhancements

[Eleven]

What is the expected enchantment on the average PC Fighter's Primary, Secondary and Tertiary weapon at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level?

[cssmythe3]

It's in the DMG - at least it was in [3.5]... it was part of 'typical NPCs of various levels' section.

Probably not as helpful as you hoped.:smallfrown:

[Eleven]

I've checked that and it is certainly helpful. The problem is that PCs and NPCs have fairly significant differences in wealth and I suspect that usually effects the power of ones weapons. Do you think PCs and NPCs are similar enough in this regard?

[Draz74]

Do you think PCs and NPCs are similar enough in this regard?

No.

Magic Item Compendium lists weapons as the following "levels" of items:

+1 weapon: Level 6.
+2 weapon: Level 11.
+3 weapon: Level 14.
+4 weapon: Level 16.
+5 weapon: Level 18.
+6 weapon: Level 19.
+7 weapon: Level 20.
+8 weapon: Level 22.
+9 weapon: Level 24.
+10 weapon: Level 25.

A fighter character should get these items 1-2 levels earlier than this list would indicate, since magic weapons are a major focus for him. Also, this table includes interesting enhancements to the weapons, not just "enhancement bonuses" to attacks/damage.

[Eleven]

Thanks. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

[hamishspence]

Also, this table includes interesting enhancements to the weapons, not just "enhancement bonuses" to attacks/damage.

In fact, once the enhancement bonus exceeds +5, there is a massive hike in price- in fact +6 swords aren't found in normal treasure because they are epic items: the DM has to place them individually, at their discretion, if they wish them to be included, since they don't come up in random treasure tables.

[Flickerdart]

Backup weapons are often Ghost-touch or Force to ignore miss chance on incorporeal opponents. A bow with a pile of Bane or Slaying arrows is another common backup.

[Cieyrin]

Backup weapons are often Ghost-touch or Force to ignore miss chance on incorporeal opponents. A bow with a pile of Bane or Slaying arrows is another common backup.

I wouldn't say Ghost Touch weapons as back ups, when you could just get the appropriate augment crystal and put it on your weapon. Sure, it takes a little foresight but it's better than enacting Golf Bag Syndrome.

As for other secondary weapons, specialty arrows and a ranged weapon certainly fit the bill, though having a second melee weapon that does a different damage type than your primary is common practice, at least early on, as Morningstars nicely complement slashing weapons in general. Heavy Flails aren't a bad alternative, either, if you prefer 2-handed weapons, though having a one-hander like a Morningstar, should you not be able to use both hands, is the very crux of having secondaries.

[Endarire]

Also, the party Wizard or Cleric should be nice enough to spare a greater magic weapon for Mr. Meat Shield. That saves lots on cash.

[herrhauptmann]

In fact, once the enhancement bonus exceeds +5, there is a massive hike in price- in fact +6 swords aren't found in normal treasure because they are epic items: the DM has to place them individually, at their discretion, if they wish them to be included, since they don't come up in random treasure tables.

+3 Holy, Flaming.
There's your +6 weapon

[Godskook]

+3 Holy, Flaming.
There's your +6 weapon

He meant a +6 enhancement bonus, not a +6 equivalent.

[sofawall]

+3 Holy, Flaming.
There's your +6 weapon

+6 weapon, yes, but I don't see the +6 enhancement bonus his quote calls for. +6 effective for the purposes of price? Yes. +6 actual, no.

[herrhauptmann]

He meant a +6 enhancement bonus, not a +6 equivalent.

So the MiC is expecting a person to carry an epic weapon at level 19? I've always been assuming it was referring to overall price of enchantments, not how pluses it gave to my attack and damage.

[Wings of Peace]

It depends. What's the enhancement value of a Valorous weapon? :smallamused:

[Draz74]

No, MIC doesn't make weapons with an actual +6 enhancement bonus any more available than they were in Core. The numbers I posted were including enhancements such as Holy or Flaming.

I got those numbers from tables of random treasure in the back. There's an additional table you're supposed to roll on if you get a weapon, to see how many of it's +s are actual enhancement bonuses.

[Godskook]

So the MiC is expecting a person to carry an epic weapon at level 19? I've always been assuming it was referring to overall price of enchantments, not how pluses it gave to my attack and damage.

*FACEPALM*

1.The MiC is referring to a +6 equivalent, which is not an epic weapon. Reading the tables in question would tell you this, as there's no way to use them to generate a weapon with an enhancement bonus higher than +5 as written.

2.Those are "Item levels", which are not analogous to ECL. They're more in line with CR, as much as that helps. So a you're likely to find that the CR 19 monsters you're fighting are carrying +6 equivalent weapons, according the MiC, but again, its not an exact science.

[Runestar]

2.Those are "Item levels", which are not analogous to ECL. They're more in line with CR, as much as that helps. So a you're likely to find that the CR 19 monsters you're fighting are carrying +6 equivalent weapons, according the MiC, but again, its not an exact science.

I thought the item lv was to state that approximate level a PC can be expected to acquire said item? So a +7 weapon would be a suitable reward for a lv20 fighter to find in a treasure hoard.

I mean, sure, a fighter can splurge on a +10 weapon and tome of st+5, but this is going to seriously eat into his WBL, which leaves a lot less room for other magic gear.

[ericgrau]

* Pulls up optimized fighter notes *
{table]Level|Equivalent Enhancement
5|MW
6|1
7|2
8|2
9|2
10|3
11|3
12|3
13|3
14|3
15|4
16|4
17|5
18|5
19|7
20|10
[/table]
The table assumes a reasonable defense and other tricks like getting boots of speed and a belt of strength to boost damage from more than just your weapon. Alternatively you could try 1/4 WBL or so if you want to ballpark it.

Btw upgrading to +10 is still cheaper than tomes.

[Godskook]

I thought the item lv was to state that approximate level a PC can be expected to acquire said item? So a +7 weapon would be a suitable reward for a lv20 fighter to find in a treasure hoard.

Yeah, and the guys you were fighting were using the treasure hoard just prior to you killing them.

Re-read to double-check, and item levels are just slightly off CR until about CR 20, according to the MiC.