Crticals 3.5

[TripperdeCleric]

I have a question and was wondering if yall could help me out here.


Can someone help me achieve highest critical at 10th level and 20th level?

You choose the weapon, the feats. I think human gets the most feats so lets go human unless feats arent that important compared to something else.


Use any and all books you got.

also please explain how it works and how you got to that conclusion..

[Critical]

Orc, with headlong rush, power attack, leap attack, battle jump, power lunge. Charging and getting a critical on a scythe, I see something in the range of 400-500.

[OldTrees]

Katori Resin material: starting critical x4
Dragonfoe -> Dragon Bane -> Dragon Doom feats: x4 -> x7 vs Dragons
Weapon Master prestige class: x+1 N/day

@OP: what do you mean by biggest critical?
Highest Maximum Damage
Highest Average damage
Biggest Multiplier
...

[jiriku]

Or biggest threat range, or greatest likelihood to score a threat and confirm a crit? You'll want to be specific, because you need one set of abilities to crit often, and quite another set to score lots of damage on a crit.

[TripperdeCleric]

My bad. Threat Range.

like 18-20 or something.


I want to get the threat range rather open


and can yall also tell me what books I may find these in?

[RagnaroksChosen]

I think its psionic weapon master or involving some BOVD prc.

eaithir one and i belive a kehorti resin +1 keen kukri or scemitar or falcion depeneding on taste


brings it to like 9-20 or something like that.

[TripperdeCleric]

can you tell me how that works exactly?

[RagnaroksChosen]

can you tell me how that works exactly?

prc here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d)

Don't have access to BOVD im at work so not including that
I did it wrong in that post though so excluding the bovd part

Faltion 18-20
Improved crit faltion 15-20


Improved Critical: The psychic weapon master gains the Improved Critical feat for free. If she already possesses this feat, add an additional +2 to her weapon of choice's threat range for critical hits.

because you can choose to apply feats and abilities in the order msot favorable to you.
this makes you weapon 16-20 before the feet then applying the feat would make it 11-20

[TripperdeCleric]

Thats not bad at all. Ok if anyone else has anything that will make it less or easier to get to that point or a different weapon let me know.

[Curmudgeon]

because you can choose to apply feats and abilities in the order msot favorable to you.
You can only make this choice if there's an option. There isn't one for the Psychic Weapon Master:
Improved Critical: The psychic weapon master gains the Improved Critical feat for free. If she already possesses this feat, add an additional +2 to her weapon of choice's threat range for critical hits. You get either:

Improved Critical, for free; or
+2 to threat range after Improved Critical, which you already have.

[RagnaroksChosen]

You can only make this choice if there's an option. There isn't one for the Psychic Weapon Master: You get either:

Improved Critical, for free; or
+2 to threat range after Improved Critical, which you already have.


the condition to get the +2 is only based on weather you have the feat. you can still stack them in any order you wish.

[The Glyphstone]

prc here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d)

Don't have access to BOVD im at work so not including that
I did it wrong in that post though so excluding the bovd part

Faltion 18-20
Improved crit faltion 15-20



because you can choose to apply feats and abilities in the order msot favorable to you.
this makes you weapon 16-20 before the feet then applying the feat would make it 11-20

..it doesn't work like that in this case, because of the exact text you quoted. You do get to apply feats and abilities in the order most favorable to you, and the abilities you have to apply are:

A - Improved Critical, double threat range.

B) - Psychic Weapon Master Ability. Improved Critical. If you already have Improved Critical, +2 threat range.

If you apply A then B, you end up with double threat range and +2, for an end result of 13-20 crit. If you apply B then A, you don't "have" Improved Critical (Falchion) when the class feature takes effect, so you get Improved Critical (Falchion). Then A kicks in and gives you Improved Critical (Falchion), which can't stack with itself, so it does nothing, and you end up with a 15-20 crit range.

[TripperdeCleric]

Ok any ideas without psychic weapon master?

or any ideas that actually drop it that low?

[arguskos]

Can't you stack Disciple of Dispater in here too? It triples your threat range at level 8 and explicitly stacks with Imp Crit. Yes, it's cheesy as hell (3.0 material and whatnot), but I think it is accepted to function (even if it will get you hit with a DMG by your DM).

[TripperdeCleric]

Can't you stack Disciple of Dispater in here too? It triples your threat range at level 8 and explicitly stacks with Imp Crit. Yes, it's cheesy as hell (3.0 material and whatnot), but I think it is accepted to function (even if it will get you hit with a DMG by your DM).

What 3.0 book is that found in?

[The Glyphstone]

Not really, 3.5 took out the crit-range-stacking that made, say, Rangers with Vorpal Bladed Gauntlets such a terror in 3.0. Pretty much every crit-increasing ability in 3.5 printed material says it doesn't stack with other crit-increasing, except for the PsiWeaponMaster's specific unusual exception, and imported 3.0 material like the Disciple of Dispater. It's in the BoVD.

Personally, I find PWM to be better with high-crit weapons like scythes - a 17-20/x4 is better for me than a 13-20/x2, though they probably average out to roughly the same damage over a long period of time.

[arguskos]

What 3.0 book is that found in?
Book of Vile Darkness? Thought the PrC name gave it away. :smallwink:

[RagnaroksChosen]

Improved Critical: The psychic weapon master gains the Improved Critical feat for free. If she already possesses this feat, add an additional +2 to her weapon of choice's threat range for critical hits.


So to dissect this:
Saying that she already has the feat

The psychic weapon master gains the Improved Critical feat for free.
Doesn't matter/isn't relevent because she already has the feat.



If she already possesses this feat, add an additional +2 to her weapon of choice's threat range for critical hits.[/QUOTE]
The condition of If she already poseses the feat is true so:
add an additional +2 to her weapon of choice's threat range for critical hits.
Which doesn't mention stacking order therefore you may apply them as you wish. it just says you get +2 to the threat range of the selected weapon.

Though this is symantecs and i would advise talking to the gm about it before hand.
Via RAW you should be able to apply it in the order most favorable.


TripperdeCleric: 13-20 isn't that bad if i am incorrect and without being evil thats your best bet. you can get this prc by 14th is the earlyes i can calculate... 7 psiwarrior 7 prc.

[TripperdeCleric]

Ok thank you. Hopefully I can get close to that at level 10

[RagnaroksChosen]

Ok thank you. Hopefully I can get close to that at level 10

thopugh with complete psionics im not sure if there is a way to get in earlyer... like via lurk or ardent or something.

[TripperdeCleric]

thopugh with complete psionics im not sure if there is a way to get in earlyer... like via lurk or ardent or something.


is there an alternative way?

[Kylarra]

The condition of If she already poseses the feat is true so:
add an additional +2 to her weapon of choice's threat range for critical hits.
Which doesn't mention stacking order therefore you may apply them as you wish. it just says you get +2 to the threat range of the selected weapon.

Though this is symantecs and i would advise talking to the gm about it before hand.
Via RAW you should be able to apply it in the order most favorable.
Actually, the use of "additional" makes stacking order clear. Otherwise it would just say add 2 to the threat range.

[ghashxx]

13-20 crit range is bloody fantastic, though it requires psychic which is sad because we don't generally use that. Then again I don't know if I would want a 13-20 crit range, cause our DM would definitely use it against us. If we come up with it then it's fair game after all.

But about the stacking, where is the rule about being allowed to order your bonuses however you want located anyways? And besides, the improved critical feat is a pre-existing condition, not something that gets added later. The sword's crit range is already set at 15-20, then off of that pre-existing condition come the extra 2 points.

It's not like you get to temporarily take away improved critical only to add it back in after you've taken 2 points off of the 18-20, cause if you've done that then the psychic bonus wouldn't be two points, it'd be just improved critical and you'd have improved critical the feat, which would then switch back the other way, and you'd switch it back again, and the world would explode in the cosmic paradox black hole. Please don't get us all sucked into a paradox black hole.:smallwink:

[Kaiyanwang]

You can add a level of brawler barbarian (cityscape WE) for another +1 to threat range while raging, IIRC..

[TripperdeCleric]

So I would have an 18-20 then the barbarian to get a 17-20?

[Kaiyanwang]

So I would have an 18-20 then the barbarian to get a 17-20?

Nevermind, the target must be flat-footed or you must charge. And the ACF is called street-fighter.

Apologies :smallredface: is not an universal increase, I didn't remember it correctly.

[TripperdeCleric]

Thats ok.....trying to get a friend a fighter character worth playing for our upcoming campaign....but only thing i can think of is a crit fighter

[Kylarra]

Thats ok.....trying to get a friend a fighter character worth playing for our upcoming campaign....but only thing i can think of is a crit fighterJust give them a warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2)?

[TripperdeCleric]

That might be better...seems set on fighter but its not that too much different.

[The Glyphstone]

Tell him that the Warblade is 'Fighter, but better' with awesome sword techniques to use instead of just hitting people over and over every single turn.

[TripperdeCleric]

Tell him that the Warblade is 'Fighter, but better' with awesome sword techniques to use instead of just hitting people over and over every single turn.



Ok and it looks alot better also heh.


So far the party is...

1 Artificier
1 Druid

[Kaiyanwang]

If you want the warblade, you need the maneuvers too. Could someone link to him the maneuver cards (free, wotc site, all legal of course).

Maneuver use thread upcoming? :smallwink:

[Kylarra]

If you want the warblade, you need the maneuvers too. Could someone link to him the maneuver cards (free, wotc site, all legal of course).

Maneuver use thread upcoming? :smallwink:Ask and ye shall receive. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) :smallcool:

[TripperdeCleric]

thank you starting a warblade thread now so I can optimise it to be the best.

[Kaiyanwang]

thank you starting a warblade thread now so I can optimise it to be the best.

I was guessing you started by yourself. BTW, search in the forum beforehand.

BTW, I strongly disagree with the concept of fighter that does the same thing over and over, but if you like the warblade, play it is fun.

And multiclassed with fighter is even better, even 2 levels.

[Kylarra]

I mainly suggested the warblade because it's easier to optimize "out of the box" than the fighter.

[TripperdeCleric]

Started the thread and talked to him..he wants to try a warblade.

[Kaiyanwang]

I mainly suggested the warblade because it's easier to optimize "out of the box" than the fighter.

I agree completely, and the OP seems satisfied.. he already started the thread :smallwink:

[Tinydwarfman]

The true power in criticals is not their improved damage, but going nigh infinite with lightning maces and disciple of dispater. (and an aptitude weapon of course)

[Lord Vukodlak]

the condition to get the +2 is only based on weather you have the feat. you can still stack them in any order you wish.

No you can't one is required for another, improved critical is applied first, then the +2. Stacking in the order you desire assumes they things are independent of each other. The wording of the ability is also quite "add an additional +2" if it came first it wouldn't be adding an additional.

And normally improved critical won't stack with other threat range modifies. But in theory another ability could stack with it. Which would require Imp C to come first.

[Tytalus]

Katori Resin material: starting critical x4
Dragonfoe -> Dragon Bane -> Dragon Doom feats: x4 -> x7 vs Dragons
Weapon Master prestige class: x+1 N/day
...


I think its psionic weapon master or involving some BOVD prc.

eaithir one and i belive a kehorti resin +1 keen kukri or scemitar or falcion depeneding on taste


Psionic Weapon Master, Disciple of Dispater and Kaorti Resin weapons are mutually exclusive. Each requires the weapon to be made of a different material.

Weapon Master (3.0) has been officially updated with CW's Exotic Weapon Master, so it's not legit anymore. Yes, I know it's not really a good replacement, but that's how it is.



TripperdeCleric: 13-20 isn't that bad if i am incorrect and without being evil thats your best bet. you can get this prc by 14th is the earlyes i can calculate... 7 psiwarrior 7 prc.

You don't meet DoD's prerequisites with Psionic Warrior 7.


Can't you stack Disciple of Dispater in here too? It triples your threat range at level 8 and explicitly stacks with Imp Crit. Yes, it's cheesy as hell (3.0 material and whatnot), but I think it is accepted to function (even if it will get you hit with a DMG by your DM).

All non-updated 3.0 material is officially usable in 3.5, so using it is hardly cheesy.